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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Interesting you bring that up. Wednesday and Thursday evenings seem to be the days when the "Farmer's Markets" all set up shop around me. The one nearest me combines a cara show with a Farmer's Market. So, that's fun.
Last one I went to (first of the year) I overheard a couple of guys talk about how the PT Cruiser is hitting teh beginnings of "cult" status. I asked them why. They said they're so easy to customize. Apparently, from their in-depth knowledge that they were more than willing to share, the PT Cruiser is also quite bulletproof? Didn't know that, either.
My brother has a PT Cruiser that he bought new 13 years ago (in the days when you waited to pay sticker). Has 170K on it.
Do keep in mind that this is the same guy who put over 100K on a Vega.
I checked some comments about reliability with a 2006 PT Cruiser. Overall, people gave it a 7.2 which would make it pretty good. Many people loved their PTs and higly recommended them. Some had lots of reoccuring problems however, and warned people away.
If you are interested in comments go to:
Customer Reviews 2006 PT Cruiser
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Interesting about the PT. Just from my observations, the ones I've seen on the road all look in decent shape. I certainly haven't seen any that have any rust on them. Some are really "tricked out" (some are just "out" there). There seems to be an inordinate amount of them with "cute" vanity plates, too.
Cheap Knockoff or Genuine Compact Luxury
I was just watching a Consumers Report video and the reviewer labeled the Mercedes Benz CLA as a cheap knockoff of the genuine article, while he fawned over the Audi A3. While the A3 looks upscale its underpinnings nonetheless, are more Volkswagen than Audi; but it is so well executed it just looks and feel like a baby A6.
On the hand the CLA does not look or feel anything like a Mercedes Benz except for the 3-star emblem. Personally, I am not a fan of the CLA styling. It may grow on me someday but that will take decades. Besides, many reviewers write that the handling and ride are sloppy and the back seat is cramped suited only for children.
What do you guys think of the CLA vis a vis the A3? Is the CLA a cheap knockoff as claimed or a genuine entry level luxury compact sedan?
My Dad used to say that PT Cruisers resembled small hearses. In retrospect, they do have that shape of older hearses from the 50's and early 60's.
When I was manager of a dealership, I had a lot of difficulty selling those on the pre-owned lot. I priced them appropriately, but in the communities we serve, they seemed less desirable for some reason. I think they were great cars and I never saw one with rust.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
http://www.newshounds.us/20121008_father_jonathan_morris_instructs_catholics_to_not_vote_for_democrats
"What do you guys think of the CLA vis a vis the A3? Is the CLA a cheap knockoff as claimed or a genuine entry level luxury compact sedan?"
You may remember that I strongly suggested to Richard that he not buy one. I drove one and it is definitely not up to snuff for Mercedes. It handles OK, but the quality just isn't there.
What they tried to do was make it resemble the CLS. It didn't work. The CLA looks like a hybrid of the CLS and the newly redesigned C Class. It has the Mercedes look, but that's where it ends.
I would not recommend the car to anyone. The A4 is a much better car!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I did nit care for the CLA I sat in. All the reviews I read did not cause me to change my mind.
The A3 was much nicer IMO. of course I have not driven it either, but at least I fit.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Edmunds says about the same as youz guyz.
The all-new 2015 A3 sedan, by comparison, aligns more closely with the American definition of a luxury car. Basically, it looks and feels like an A4 or A6 that got left in the dryer on high heat. Unfortunately, there are side effects to the shrinkage, namely a cramped backseat and a tiny trunk. They are without question the 2015 Audi A3's biggest drawbacks.
Its biggest assets, though, are an impeccably constructed interior, generous standard equipment, an ample options list, nimble handling and appealing engines
In an Edmunds comparison test, the 2015 Audi A3 easily proved superior to the similarly sized, equipped and priced Mercedes-Benz CLA-Class.
Edmunds 2015 Audi A3
Nothing wrong with the looks:
But, I am not a big fan of GPS sceens that pop-up like an afterthought, and vents that look like they came from a 1984 Pontiac Phoenix;
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"But, I am not a big fan of GPS sceens that pop-up like an afterthought, and vents that look like they came from a 1984 Pontiac Phoenix;"
I agree, driver. Mercedes is doing the same thing in the 2015 CLS 550 - a swing-up NAV screen that looks like it could obstruct visibility. Many manufacturers are going that route and I certainly do not like it.
Those HVAC vents are certainly interesting, to say the least.
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Back when I was in Hope Lodge my brother and I went over by the Intrepid right after the Enterprise was delivered. Dwarfs everything else on the ship.
Anyway, not far from there is Audi of Manhattan. They had a CPO A3 wagon for around 24K. Oh, I wish......
When you compare Duke University to Elon, it is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. Duke is a huge school; Elon pretty small. Duke is more for the independent type student who moves and learns at his or her own pace; Elon boasts more one- on- one individual instruction which is good for any university. Duke has very large auditorium styled classes. Duke is more expensive than most other schools, which may or may not have an impact on learning. I would say little impact, if any. While Duke may be the Gothic Wonderland, many small schools carry very prestigious credentials. Some students just find smaller schools more comfortable----making friends easily, getting to know the professors, moving about campus with ease, enjoying the geographic location of the school, etc.
An example is my wife. Her parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and her "evil" brother all graduated from UNC-Chapel Hill. In fact, her father was Vice President of UNC-Chapel Hill in his later life after retiring from the business world. My wife wanted no part of that scene. She chose Peace College for her first two years and transferred to Salem College for her last two years. Salem College is small but has one of the highest rankings in the country. All of this to say that it depends on what you want and how you feel. I chose a college in the mountains because I always loved the mountains and my family spent a lot of time there. I chose my graduate school because it was near my work. There are just lots of factors a student considers when making higher education decisions.
Stickguy's daughter looked at a number of places. It is good that she did. It makes her feel that her final choice is the right one for her. Elon was among the 75 or so colleges where I recruited for talented educators. Were it not a really good school, I would not have traveled there. I was always "picky" as to who taught the children in our school district. I hired around 300 educators per year to cover an employment pool of 3,000 educators. We were in the top ten large school districts in North Carolina.
Richard
Funny.... I've heard many complain about the NAV screens in late model BMW's that look like they should retract into the dash, but are in a "fixed" position..
Can't please everyone, I guess...
If I had it to do over again I think I'd go to a smaller college. I went in with no idea what I wanted to do and kind of came out the same way. Could have used way more guidance. Easy to get lost in a big university.
@Sterlingdog.. Yikes, I was only making a light hearted reference to the whimsical nickname for the architecture at Duke, not anything else about either school.
Richard, thanks for the description of Elon. That is how they project themselves, so good to know it might be true!
some of the big schools are more impersonal. If you want to just blend in and float through, no one is really going to care or do anything about it. At a smaller, hands-on place, there is "no where to hide". She also got named a business fellow, so will have another layer of people keeping an eye on her I think!
We toured Duke, but did not apply. Gorgeous place, but dang, a lot of trees. Like wandering through a forest.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I probably wouldn't be bothered by the pop up nav screen, since I am usually too cheap to pay for factory nav. and it is no more obstructive than a Garmin stuck on the windshield.
and that is probably better than having what looks like an ipad permanently affixed to the dashboard, though in most cars that also handles other duties I think.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"We toured Duke, but did not apply. Gorgeous place, but dang, a lot of trees. Like wandering through a forest."
Yes, stickguy, the campus is lined with trees. Duke was named for the tobacco baron who donated the land and many millions of dollars to build the university.
I was there 2 years ago visiting my nephew who is a cardiologist in Raleigh. I believe he is on staff at Duke University Hospital, but I am not certain of that. He has a huge practice there. He is a graduate of Harvard and did his residency at Mass General and Brigham and Women's Hospital (I think that's the name) in Boston.
Raleigh-Durham is a nice city - been there a couple of times.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
LOL! I have to apologize. I didn't mean to launch into a dissertation.
Richard
One of the reasons we didn't like the 2013 328/335 was because of the nav screen standing up......looks like it was added on after when they had already designed the dash. Also, I think it reduces your forward view to some degree. May catch more sunlight too.
We liked the way the NAV system was built into the dash in the A4.
This could be a factor when I get my next car. My 535 has the built in NAV, and A6 stands up.I think an E Class is built in. I may have to check a Jaguar and maybe a Caddie.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"My 535 has the built in NAV, and A6 stands up.I think an E Class is built in. I may have to check a Jaguar and maybe a Caddie."
Yes, driver, the E, S, CL, and CLS Class cars have the in-dash built-in display screen. The CLA and C Class have the pop-up screens.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
IMHO, the "add on" look of the GPS screens in many vehicles is in reaction to the fact that younger potential buyers like their tablets, phones, et al. Since fewer younger people are buying cars - or even getting their licenses - it seems that the car makers are trying to appease their desire for tablet looking devices.
"IMHO, the "add on" look of the GPS screens in many vehicles is in reaction to the fact that younger potential buyers like their tablets, phones, et al."
There is another train of thought, IMHO, for the add-on look - mature drivers complain that they can't see the screen when it is smaller and built into the dash. The larger screen is usually closer to the driver as well.
I would think that an unprotected screen would be more difficult to see with sun shining through the front and side windows.
Whatever the reason, it doesn't work for me. I would not buy a car that had a pop-up screen or a stationary screen sticking up in the center of my dash.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Mike, you may have missed my short post to you. I have a question. You advised the lady to use the formula invoice-incentives+$300. Where does the $300 come from in this formula? Thanks.
Richard
I thought of a wild scenario. Everyone feel free to respond. Let's say that a man gets in terrible financial trouble. He owes on his 2013 luxury vehicle. He pulls into a dealer and wants to trade the luxury vehicle for a 2010 cheap model car. How would a salesman deal with this situation? For argument sake, let's assume that the guy doesn't want to do a private sale or simply turn the car into the bank that financed it. What should the poor man do? What should the salesman tell him to do?
Richard
My wife's boss traded his 10+ year old Camry for a new Malibu. From the description, it is a top of the line model.
This happens all of the time. The person want's to "downsize" usually because they foolishly bought a car that they really couldn't afford in the first place.
The owner is more than likely "upside down" in that 2013. They have no cash to apply and think that somehow they can lower their payments.
And, they usually don't disclose this information until they have wasted three hours of a salesperson's time looking at and test driving cars on a busy Saturday.
It was never a good thing to watch someone drive in with a year old luxury car.
Oh, there were exceptions but not often.
"You advised the lady to use the formula invoice-incentives+$300. Where does the $300 come from in this formula? Thanks."
It's my opinion that a dealer is in business to make money. I would not offer invoice less incentives on a new car. I would agree to buy a car at $300 over factory invoice less incentives. That, IMHO, is a fair price for a new car.
The hold back a dealer receives from the manufacturer is used for overhead expenses (cost of being in business such as real estate taxes, corporate taxes, interest on mortgage and floor plan - inventory, etc.) so, $300 gross profit is a fair price to pay.
I usually pay invoice less $3000 - $4000 because I use the USAA purchasing plan + Mercedes Club $500 rebate coupon. The dealer receives that amount back from MBUSA since these are corporate fleet prices. So he usually keeps his holdback. This last time, to sell me a car on the last day of November, he even gave me his holdback - which he usually doesn't do.
I hope this answers your question.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
"Mike, you may have missed my short post to you."
Yes, I did. Had to go back a few days to find it. Sorry!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
"What should the poor man do? What should the salesman tell him to do?"
I would tell him to first sell the car privately if it's in pristine condition and has very low miles. He'll recover $$3000 -$4000 more this way.
Another alternative is to roll over the car into an extended lease (48-60 months) on an entry level car in order to amortize the lost value as cheaply as possible. This doesn't always work if the gap is too much.
Another possibility would be to buy the less expensive car and finance 100% of it (if he has good credit) and come up with cash to pay off the car. Some banks will finance up to 110% of the cost of the car.
If his credit is fair or bad (low to mid 600's), I'd tell him to turn the car back to the bank and work out a monthly payment plan, which is short of declaring bankruptcy. Perhaps taking out an equity loan on his house to pay off the car.
In some cases, it's better to just keep the car!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Mike, isn't it common to use a heavily incentived car to "wash" the negative equity?
say a Sonata. 25K sticker, lots of rebates so 19K selling. But, get it financed at even 95%, and that is almost 5K of NE absorbed. Do that over 5 years, and as long as you never want to get out of it in the first 3-4, can come out ahead.
Or I guess that would also be your lease idea. Bury everything in the lease, pay $400/mo on a cheap car, and be even at the end.
also, I always thought that selling privately a newer, expensive car was really hard. You don't have the title (or money to pay off loan), buyer needs financing, etc. Sure it can be done, but way more complicated, and severely limited pool of buyers. Plus for the hassle, they will want a serious discount! Oh, not to mention sales tax credit on a trade is applicable.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"Mike, isn't it common to use a heavily incentived car to "wash" the negative equity?"
Yes, stick, that is true, all of what you mentioned. So long as the customer realizes that once he buys or leases the base car, he's stuck with it for at least 4 years. The problem with customers like this would be poor credit which kills the chance of doing anything involving a lease or a loan.
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You might be able to roll the negative equity into a used car that is "back of book".
Some used cars are such poor sellers that they can be worth several thousands of dollars less than book values. The banks don't know this and may lend enough to make up for the deficiency.
Again, having excellent credit means everything.
Thanks. I misinterpreted what you said. Now I see. $300 over invoice less incentives sounds like a pretty good deal for the consumer.
Richard
"Thanks. I misinterpreted what you said. Now I see. $300 over invoice less incentives sounds like a pretty good deal for the consumer."
I personally feel that most people would gladly pay $300-$500 over invoice less incentives on most new cars. The less expensive the car, expect $300 over. The more expensive the car, expect to pay a little more.
You may wonder why I take that approach! It's because the more expensive luxury car dealerships don't sell nearly as many cars as the less expensive brands like Toyota, Nissan, Kia, etc., so they don't have high volume sales.
As an example, the average Toyota or Nissan dealership sells 300+ cars a month. The average Mercedes dealership sells 110+ cars a month. This the reason to usually expect to pay a little more over invoice on a BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Porsche, etc.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Meanwhile, nobody answered my question. I wanted to know how to read Edmunds pricing. Use a 2014 Ford Focus as an example:
Edmunds pricing 2014 Ford Focus
Good Price
Less than $21,614
Price PromiseSM
Estimated Price
$17,180
Get Special Offers
Factory Invoice
$21,517
Average Price Paid
$21,614
MSRP
I didn't want to check out that $17180 price because I might get endless emails, but, does that $17180 price mean there is a dealer who will sell at that price? Also, if the MSRP is $21,614, and the average price paid is $21,517 can you only get $100 off on a Focus? Excuse my lack of knowledge, but, it would be helpful if one of our experts could diagnose these figures.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That is possible Rob. If a car had a pop-up nav unit it might not be a deal breaker if other things were more important to me, but it is definitely a negative. I'm not a tablet user, I still use a desk computer-laptop and mini computer for travel, and I have an old fold up clam shell phone that I use once or twice a month on a pay as you go plan....$100 a year and I probably use about $20 a year. So, the tablet look does nothing for me. To me, a pop up nav looks like someone forgot to draw it in the original plans. It also looks like with my luck someone is going to hit it with something and knock it off it's pedestal.
Besides, in those statistics we saw awhile ago newer cars are bought mostly by us older people, so no need to jazz something like that up to make it match a tablet.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"Meanwhile, nobody answered my question. I wanted to know how to read Edmunds pricing. "
Sorry, I must have missed your previous post.
Remember I mentioned that the TrueCar pricing on Edmunds is not the best pricing on certain cars? This is an example of that.
There must be some great incentives from the factory for a dealer to sell a car at or below invoice - especially one like that Ford Focus.
I use Edmunds differently. I look for invoice - deduct any incentives, then for the Focus, I would add about $300. For a Mercedes, I would add $400-$500. That's how I use Edmunds. I pay no attention to the TrueCar pricing.
Does that answer your question?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I do understand the $300 over invoice for a car like a Focus, and $400 or $500 over invoice for a higher priced car. I am not sure where I can find the actual invoice price. Is that on the sticker on the car, or can I find it on Edmunds.
I am seeing these numbers:
Good Price
Less than $21,614
Price PromiseSM
Estimated Price
$17,180
Get Special Offers
Factory Invoice
$21,517
Average Price Paid
$21,614
MSRP
$23,175
IMaybe I am just slow, but it looks to me like MSRP is 23175. Most people are actually paying 21614. If you use Edmunds you will get the car for 17180. Where would I get the invoice price and what would I pay for this same car if I found the invoice price + $300?
edmunds-2014 Focus
Sorry, I am in the slower group in your class, but, thanks for giving it a good try.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Got to drive a BMW i3 today. It's a slick ride. I could easily see owning one for a suburban runabout. Too bad it costs north of $40k...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
"Sorry, I am in the slower group in your class, but, thanks for giving it a good try."
I use the Edmunds App for iPhone. I see invoice, MSRP, and fair Edmunds price.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Driver, if you pick a car and price it out, at the end when you see the summary it shows Invoice, MSRP, incentives and TMV. What you want is there.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"PT Cruiser is quite bulletproof..."
I don't know if that's true seeing that my wife's only has 26k miles after 5 years. From what I've read the 2.4L engine is pretty reliable. I've seen some older PTs on Craigslist with 150k miles or more. It can take a turbo boost up to 210 hp.
Unfortunately that engine was developed in the 90s when gas was 90cents so fuel economy wasn't a top priority. In her normal short trip driving my wife doesn't even get 20mpg. For a 4 banger that's terrible.
Chrysler developed an improved 2.4L late in the car's lifespan which was much more fuel efficient but never put it in the PT.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
My wife's plate is SUZICRZR.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I had a couple of PT Cruisers for rentals withing the first few years they were out and honestly never liked them much. The layout of the controls inside seemed off and the drive was OK but nothing special. I expected to like them a lot more than I did.
It does have the distinction of being the last of the "real" Chryslers (pre-Daimler) to remain in production, along with the Viper.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Thanx stick...I think I can do that. Not sure I want to go that far right now or I will probably get inundated with pop ups and emails. But, it is quite a system for the average person to be able to buy a car at a good price.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mike, your the only person in the world that has an app for buying new cars with him constantly.....were you a Boy Scout?......Be Prepared!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Our ex employee Peggy had a PT that she loved...her plate was PEGS PT.
I'd like to hear what a psychologist says is the reason why Cruiser owners and vanity plates go together.
Personally, I would get a vanity plate if it worked for my business, but, it wouldn't have helped.
I am either too cheap to buy one, or not imaginative enough to think of a good one:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My brother's PT Cruiser had several why would have been pricey repairs but in this time he had do e what I'd do with a Chrysler - bought an extended warrantee. Once it passed the warranty period it's behaved fine. Kind of like roadburner's Mazdaspeed 3. That's the only way it was like and Mazda. Kind of crude and a gas hog butI like it.