Stories from the Sales Frontlines

13063073093113122003

Comments

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    I have this vision of you in front of a giant screen with strange looking gloves on. Ever seen Minority Report? You're like Tom Cruise's character moving things back and forth to make sense of it all. Spoooky.

    -Moo
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "The problem is salespeople want you to make a $20,000 pus decision TODAY!!!"

    I'm with you on that one. I can't think well under pressure so I have learned to not make decisions on the spot. I get the information I need and then make a decision in the comfort of our home.

    By the time I go to buy a car, we know exactly what we want and exactly how much we are willing to pay.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    And that's why we love you Bob. If you've done the homework right, we can do a deal in about an hour for everything!

    -Moo
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    being well prepared is key..
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I'll second bobst on that. I diverted from my usual on the last van and ended up buying when I wouldn't have if I had it planned ahead as I normally do. I'm OK with the result but not happy about the experience at all and absolutely paid too much.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • psorterpsorter Member Posts: 89
    " I can't think well under pressure so I have learned to not make decisions on the spot. I get the information I need and then make a decision in the comfort of our home. "

    If that is the case I suspect you will never find any salespeople you like and none will ever like you.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Well, our average customer is 3-4 visits before the sale. Even internet customers sometimes visit more than once.
  • metro123metro123 Member Posts: 100
    I'd like to know what the bobst method is for buying a USED car.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    If that is the case I suspect you will never find any salespeople you like and none will ever like you.

    Who cares what a sales person likes. Just send "someone" over that can retrieve keys and write numbers on a paper for the decision maker to approve or disapprove.

    People just want a new car...not a "sales relationship"

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Depends on the kind of car you are buying.

    On most of my deals I am the DECIDER ;) :P
  • micosilvermicosilver Member Posts: 212
    Dear hosts,
    I feel it is time to open topic for our dear friends like bobst, tbaxxon and Co.

    Subject:
    "How to be a stroke"

    Subtopics:
    Holdback - write your congressman to make it illegal
    Invoice - what not to believe
    Being in control of not buying a car
    Stroke and mooch, how can I be both?

    Anyone has other suggestions?
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Well, our average customer is 3-4 visits before the sale. Even internet customers sometimes visit more than once.

    That high? I think 2 is optimal. One to look at the car to see if it's right, second time to buy...
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    People just want a new car...not a "sales relationship"

    Speak for yourself - not the world. A. I am the decision maker in my deals and B. I have developed a relationship with many of my customers. However, there have been a few (just a few) that I would choose not to develop a relationship with.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Our customers are about the same. Somewhere between 3 and 4 visits before a purchase is made. I think the LR2 will start bringing that average down though as I have sold several of them in just one visit and then a second to pick up the car a day or so later.

    I still haven't spot delivered any though. I think I have only ever done one spot delivery and that was on a Used Discovery.
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    I have only bought once as a fresh up. First test drive, offer and sign in the same visit. I'll clarify what I believe is optimal at 2 visits. One to look at the car, reach agreement by phone and email and second visit to sign pay and take delivery.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    You must be very new here, if you threw Bobst and TBaxxon into one. Bobst has been around for quite a while (not active recently) and has a car buying method named after him. He is probably the last guy to speak about holdback or invoice on this board. He simply comes and tells you what he wants to pay. You are always free to reject his offer, which would result of him walking out and asking another dealer - he will likely to raise his offer bu a hundred or two.

    Now - about strokes. From what I see sales people would obviously appreciate if we all came and bought a car on our first visit without a test drive, questions, pay asking price, buy all the mop&glo. They also know it's not happening and everybody needs more than one visit to make decision.

    Moreover, considering more than one brand is normal, thus somebody will be disapointed - actually we will produce more disapointment than joy, as if we just checked only three brands just one dealer each, two will not get the sale. That's just fact of life - if one can't live with that, they should not be in car sales.

    The real question is - can we, as customers make limit our urge to abuse salesperson's time by making some research before the visit (so irrelevant brands are excluded), coming with some sort of real sale in some sort of near future in mind, unless expressly invited by dealer as part of their general marketing effort (like new model intro event isting customers), etc.

    I must confess I also sinned by being a stroke couple of times. Just had to check some car way before it would be in my interest. Was always very candid about it - never pretended to be a real customer - I was never mistreated, although I can't imagine I made them really happy, either.

    There were also couple of instances of me responding to mfrs. mailings regarding their loyalty offers that required some dealer checking. No sale resulted, as final numbers were always coming to conclusion staying with current car was better. What can I say - I know I wasted their time, but how else can I really make sure how good that offer really was if I did not go to the dealer and asked?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Ok Ok, I didn't mean to include the elite buyers and sellers. When I write on here it is directed towards normal price people. $20k to $50k. Anything I say should not be misunderstood by the rare air pampered people as anything disrespectful to them. I know, some people need pampered into everything they do. And they have that right. When the middle class disappears I hope to fall on the high side of the fence myself, but until then my "sales relationship" stuff is for the <$50k crowd.

    Again my apologies to the high end folks.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Apology accepted. I might add when I first got in the biz at a Dodge store, it really was very similar with many of my customers. More than 1 visit and built relationships. It is all in the dealer and sales approach, not necessarily the price point.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Brilliant!!!! How do we get this idea off the ground.

    I have often said that people should be issued a true "Credit Card" What this card does it it represents your entire credit profile and it updates each month as does your bureau.

    When you go into any store to finance anything you simply swipe the persons "Credit Card" and there beacon score and high credit show up on the screen. Customers and Vendors would both know in a matter of 15 seconds if you qualify for financing.

    Think of the time and aggravation it would save you and the retail vendor.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Think of the time and aggravation it would save you and the retail vendor

    Would be great if each swipe did not lower your score, as each inquiry does now.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Would be great if each swipe did not lower your score, as each inquiry does now.

    Exactly. This is not what you would use to buy the vehicle, if you decide to buy then the traditional credit app and all that crap is taken and the loan is submitted, then you get the inquiry because now you are taking on the debt.

    All the "Credit Card" does is give you and I enough general info to give you accurate answers to your questions. Will I qualify for 0%, can you match or beat x% interest, Can I even buy a car.

    The possibility of uses are endless. As a dealer I would be willing to pay the "Credit" company $1 every time I swiped one of there cards. The money it would save the company in man hours alone would be staggering, and at $1 a pop the company would get fat quick.

    Who's in? Lets get this thing off the ground :)
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    I will pay more than $1. Nothing irritates me more than a time waster with terrible credit. :mad:
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I feel your pain. A non-impact swipe or similar check would really clear that out. One thing would also be needed - some kind of privacy, like no SSN release to the dealer until actual application is made. Just score indicator and "WAC" offer qualifier.

    My problem is because of current system I do not let them run my credit before I'd be ready to buy. I tell them they should be expecting sevenhundreds, but God knows they probably don't believe me. With such swipe I see them all over me and really trying to sell me something, as they know I can pay.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Sorry, although you may be a real stroke, not aLL car buyers are. Most people are pretty serious.

    A "stroke" is a non-serious shopper.

    Going home to "sleep" on a deal doesn't make a person a stroke.

    You may be one as you say. I don't know but if the shoe fits...
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Anyone has other suggestions?

    I pretty much like what you wrote (especially the one about the Holdback and getting my congressman involved) so why would I want to add anything?

    Sounds to me like you're one of the old-school guys that can't comprehend the fact that people today have a wealth of information at their finger tips and are somewhat prepared when they car shop. Get used to it, its here to stay and we like it.

    This might be a good time to change fields.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    I didn't say credit.

    Credit should be used only for buying your first home, starting a business, etc.
    NOT car buying.

    color coded tag giving you limits

    See...Limits. Buying power limits. NOT credit limits.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Then what are you doing having people go straight to the F&I office ? The F in F&I is Finance.

    If your new dealership is not going to allow people to finance you have cut you target market down significantly, and I just called my broker and told him to cancel my plans of bank rolling this place for you :D
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    * Car companies say they are being judged by what happens at dealership level
    * Average customer wants to spend no more than 2 hours buying a car, says Toyota executive VP Jim Lentz
    * He adds that 1/4 of prospective buyers leave showroom w/o making a purchase
    * Cites 1 consumer who said she'd rather attend a funeral than do business at a dealership


    That was from automotive news. Big guys making big decisions. I'm just trying to suggest new ideas for a customer friendly operation. It has to change. We have 300 million people in the USA and 400 million cars. They're not a scarce commodity.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • sidious6688sidious6688 Member Posts: 80
    Mackabee,

    While I would never wish you to miss out on a selling opportunity because of another customer wasting your time, you must keep in mind everyone at the dealership is a present or potential customer, expecting the customers who will buy to just roll over for you is an unrealistic expectation. If it were this easy, why would the dealer need a sales force? I think the dealership is counting on you to entice these customers, not thumb your nose at them. You never know who they know who may be looking for a car.

    The wasting time part works both ways. I as a customer do my research up front, narrow down to three or fewer choices, test drive and rank them. Then I decide the exact configuration and price I'm willing to pay (it will be a doable not a price. not unrealistic) and negotiate. Since I've made up my mind and won't budge, the salesmna's efforts to get my to buy alarms, extended warranties, etc are a waste of MY time. Since I won't be bumped, the salesman wasting my time also wastes his opportunity for other customers. I recently bought a Toyota out of state as no one locally would compete on the price. I would not waste my time on the inconvienience, but it did save me $900. If the local dealers would have been reeasonable, they could have earned my business and still made a profit. It may not have been as much as they'd like, but there would have been almost no effort. Instead they got nothing.

    I don't doubt encountering those with no chance or intention of buying is frustrating, but the commisions paid are for the total effort of selling to as many customers as possible. If you focus on making a crazy comission on a few suckers, the future long term will not be bright. Best of luck.
  • micosilvermicosilver Member Posts: 212
    Sounds to me like you're one of the old-school guys that can't comprehend the fact that people today have a wealth of information at their finger tips and are somewhat prepared when they car shop. Get used to it, its here to stay and we like it.

    Quite the contrary. I am relatively young, I do Internet sales, and my ideal customer is one that can do his research and come prepared.
    No one needs to test-drive 7 different models, and go to 4 different dealers of the same brand.
    You do your research, figure out what type of vehicle you need, and narrow it to 3 models, test-drive them, choose one, and get quotes. If you respect other people time and effort - you will give a chance to the guy that test-drove with you. Most likely he will be able to come within $100 to the lowest quote.
  • sidious6688sidious6688 Member Posts: 80
    I think salesmen forget that the relationship is not equal. The buyer has the power unless there is only one seller. Sales people try hard to erase this from buyers' minds but its the seller who needs to put the first foot forward not the buyer.
  • sidious6688sidious6688 Member Posts: 80
    You will find all sorts of people in all professions, don't be fooled by titles or fields. Someone who doesn't call back either is not that interested or already bought elsewhere.
  • sidious6688sidious6688 Member Posts: 80
    This was very poor behavior by the buyer. Having said that I'm not sure the approach taken was a good idea. If the guy was who he says he was, the dealership had no alienated this buyer (which may be no great loss) and all the Nissan enthusiasts he deals with too.
  • britcrlvrbritcrlvr Member Posts: 83
    i was talking with a friend the other day when he told me that someone called up and told him they would take an 06 corvette fully loaded if he took 10% off the price is this ridiculous or what?
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    Well i tend to disagree, if a customer walks into a dealership with a chip on their shoulder how do you think they'll be treated?
  • sidious6688sidious6688 Member Posts: 80
    If the deposit is left on a credit card all the buyer has to do is dispute the charge based on not receing a good or service. Presto! deposit returned.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I am relatively young, I do Internet sales, and my ideal customer is one that can do his research and come prepared.

    It sure didn&#146;t sound like you were in touch with the times when I read your post 15862. FWIW I&#146;ve done business with your type. The last two times I bought I started with the internet. :) Until this method proves me wrong I&#146;ll do it again. Talk about a great way to save time for both the customer and the guys in the biz.

    No one needs to test-drive 7 different models, and go to 4 different dealers of the same brand. You do your research, figure out what type of vehicle you need, and narrow it to 3 models, test-drive them, choose one, and get quotes.

    This isn&#146;t the way I do it but I&#146;ve known people who have done this and I&#146;ve asked them why they do it since it seems like the hard way to go about it to me and they usually respond with something like, &#147; I&#146;m spending a good chunk of money on this so I want to be sure before I buy&#148;. All I&#146;ve been able to say to that is, &#147;have a ball but I wouldn&#146;t want to be your salesman&#148;!

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • steevosteevo Member Posts: 389
    Its an 06! 10% is what, about 4500 off sticker? Sounds like a reasonable first offer to me considering the car is a 2006 and its almost time for 2008s to hit the floor.
    Whats so ridiculous?
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    You said "I can't think well under pressure so I have learned to not make decisions on the spot."

    I think you've also said in the past you work as a computer programmer for the government.

    Well, gov'mint IT must be much different from the private industry I worked in. Hasn't your system ever gone boom during the day. And you then have two users and your manager 'lurking' in your office, reminding you there are 300 people scattered across the nation that can't input data, while you are digging thru a dump or code? And the user manager calls and asks "How's it going? When do you expect the system to be back up?" And the only response can be "When I find the problem, maybe I will have an idea how long it will take to fix." And the 3:00am phone call when the batch job goes boom and you crawl out of bed with a sleep deprived mind, connect via dialup to work, and try to diagnoise the problem without any documentation or most of your automated tools?

    No time there for a brain freeze and 'can't think well under pressure'.

    I don't do this work (or any work) any longer, and I don't miss any of it.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    My Bimmer customers from Saturday are back as I write this. They want to drive the car again so they are on a test drive right now. The car has not been shopped yet so at least I know I won't be spending all night here to finish the deal. It's now 8:57pm I'm waiting for them to get back because Joy told me before they left on the test drive that "We still want to negotiate some more." :( Jeez, I told them we gave them our best deal on Saturday since it was around closing time and we wanted to wrap it up. I can't believe I'm working on a mini on a used car. A bimmer no less which mind you, I don't think they're that great of a car contrary to popular belief. :P
    I'll let you know what happened after I GET HOME!
    Mackabee
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Let's hold up just a moment. This is our business. This is how we make a living. I know this has been gone over before, but the mark of an excellent salesman is finding a real buyer and CLOSING him.

    If you take a month and walk in our shoes, you'd understand that. Many people come through the doors and after awhile, you get used to the same situations. Ever watched COPS? Ever wonder why some cops can see right through people immediately when they are lying? You guessed it, they've been at it for awhile.

    All professionals can read buying signals. I would think that overall you would have about a 95% chance of being right if you're good at it. Will you miss deals sometimes by brushing off some folks? Yes, but the odds in your favor to sell more by moving away from the folks who want you to help them drive every car on the lot.

    Here's where this discussion might get a little dicey. There are certain groups of people that I NEVER talk to. Why? Because they negotiate a deal and walk on you. They make ridiculous offers and shop you all over town. If you, as a salesman, knew that you had 1 in 100 chance of closing a customer, would you proceed with those people? And even if you DO, you would only make a mini and you would get a bad CSI score. Therefore, because I know that my odds are VERY low with certain folks, I steer clear. My time is extremely valuable.

    I remember having a lady demand to drive 3 different vehicles on a busy Saturday and she said she wanted them completely loaded. When I asked her what she meant by loaded, she replied with an attitude and repeated "LOADED". Ok..... I again tried to determine what she meant, but was again returned attitude. I told her that she would need to find another salesman and walked away. Was she going to buy something soon? Maybe. Was it going to be me selling it? No. Not worth the hassle or headache.

    Ok, to recap, Mackabee is a professional. He's been at this gig for awhile. If you got into the sales business with the attitude you have. Mack and I would love you. Why? Because you'd be the guy taking every up that came through the door because they all might be buying something. Great! That means Mack and I can cherry pick the best ups and actually sell something. I love greenpeas sometimes. They take all the trash that noone wants.

    -Moo
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    You didn't read the rest of my posts. He was NOT the president of the Z club and he WAS a liar. My SM has done this long enough. If he decides to throw someone out of the dealership, more power to him. It's great to see people being treated the way they should. All this PC nonsense gets old.

    -Moo
  • tbaxxontbaxxon Member Posts: 80
    So you are a "stroke" three times..Then a buyer?

    We are all strokes until we by.....Yet salesmen on this very board "dislike" strokes and even have a cute name for us...
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    They are people who have NO intention of buying. I can't make it more simple than that.

    People with no credit. People with no money. People with no sense. People wasting time on a Sunday afternoon looking at a vehicle that their cousin just bought. Strokes.

    Strokes.

    Strokes.

    Not buyers.

    Strokes.

    -Moo
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    Sounds like that lady thought you were a mind reader? Loaded could mean so many different things to people, I always list off what options im looking for like a moonroof, leather, spoiler, etc.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Yup, one of the stories that you may have heard before relates to finding out specifics for a person. A lady said that she needed all the safety options. When the salesman replied that the vehicle had all the lastest options in side/curtain airbags and ABS, she said NO! I mean does it have the alarm system on it.

    You can never know what a person means unless you ask. If they are offended? Take a walk.

    -Moo
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    I remember having a lady demand to drive 3 different vehicles on a busy Saturday and she said she wanted them completely loaded. When I asked her what she meant by loaded, she replied with an attitude and repeated "LOADED". Ok..... [...] I told her that she would need to find another salesman and walked away.

    Awesome! Good for you.

    Gee, I wonder if her attitude used to work with her Daddy! Personally, I'm sick & tired of people with attitudes, acting like some other people are inferior, or certain people owe them something. By the way, she didn't drive a Benz, did she? :blush:

    My wife works retail, and I hear a good story from her every once in a while. Her "favorite" store customers are the ones who walk around continuously talking on the cell phone. When they get up to the sales counter, they can't get off the phone for a couple seconds to acknowledge anyone, nor answer a couple simple questions.
  • tbaxxontbaxxon Member Posts: 80
    Thats funny I once helped a friend negotiate a deal through his ear piece while he was on the phone, The dealership never knew it. I did the math on the computer and looked up prices and did money factor calcs for him. Felt illegal in a way but worked out

    I think its good to have someone on the phone with Internet access when looking at used cars especially.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    By the way, she didn't drive a Benz, did she?

    No, but apparently you know about those folks. Typically, BAD ups. Chips on shoulders and holier than thou attitudes. It's the spice of life I guess. I just don't like my life seasoned with some folks.

    -Moo
  • rworrellrworrell Member Posts: 149
    Moo--not to get all sappy on you, but that means a lot to get that positive feedback from a professional. I really appreciate all that you guys contribute around here...and of course, I love the stories.

    Back to our regularly scheduled discussion. :shades:
This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.