My best friend's dad owned a Hudson Hornet---two tone green sedan. We enjoyed every ride we took in this wonderful automobile. He was a polished gentleman who wore brown and white wing tip shoes and graduated from NC State. The car was never synonymous with being a Red Neck.
Unless you grew up in the South, it is difficult to understand the meaning of the term "Red Neck" as it has various implications in identifying and dealing with people. Basically there are five types of Red Necks in the South: (1) Those with no taste---in cars or anything else (2) Those with no education---can't read, write, or comprehend well (3) Those who know better and just pretend to be Red Necks to shock other people (4) Those who have bettered themselves and are to be admired---but still may face some discrimination in the South (5) Those who are named "Bubba", chew tobacco, spit on the streets, drive ragged pick'em up trucks, and think that New Mexico is a country in Europe
Before you say that I am a snob, allow me to point out that I grew up with another close friend who was a Red Neck. He just retired from Harvard as head of their English Department and has two sons who are attorneys in New York---a city on the East Coast.
I've had a few of those! The current story that I'm writing was one of them. You'll see what I mean. OTOH I should stay away from single women in work out gear or jeans with notepads in hand but still haven't learned my lesson. I do sell a lot of women due to my suave and charming personality (coughs, bs) I did get "burnt" last Saturday when a single woman in jeans driving a 93 Nissan Pathfinder about to fall apart pulled into the lot. I didn't see the notepad until she walked over to the passenger side to get it. She told me she wanted to see an Suv and an hour later I had shown her three different vehicles which she did not want to test drive that day. (Mystery shopper?) So she tells me she will come in on Sunday around noon and test drive. I tell her I won't be in since I'm not scheduled to work but if she's serious I'll make an exception. She tells me it's ok. She'll find someone else to test drive and when she's ready to buy she will look for me. (Oh great! Obviously has no consideration for one's time) Needless to say she never shows up but I do end up selling a truck to a young police officer :shades: So at least my Sunday wasn't shot. Mackabee Oh by the way, there is no such thing as the "perfect up". You have to turn them into one. And the first thing they always say is "Just lookin'" :P
I thought I was the perfect up when I approached a salesman snoozing on a golf cart on a Saturday afternoon and asked him if he was interested in selling a truck. Course after helping me to find a truck for 10 minutes he tells me he has to turn me over to another salesman as his wife has called him from the airport and that he needs to pick her up.
Remember, this is on a Saturday afternoon......and yes I bought a truck that day so he got half of the commission and no it wasn't a mini by no means.
My apologies as my question regarding rednecks had nothing to do with the Hudson Hornet. They were actually seperate questions.
And thank you for clearing up the term redneck as I'm often corrected by friends. For example, I thought that Hannah Montana's dad was a redneck till someone corrected me and informed me that "he's not a redneck ...that there is a hillbilly". Pardon me for my ignorance. And thanks again for the clarification.
I also mistake rednecks for TPT but that's another topic all together.
... You would be amazed at how many chowder heads think the way you figure a payment is to multiply the bottom line by the rate and divide it by the term. ...
Isn't that how simple interest works?? :confuse: I honestly want to know. Or is it that interest is charged on the balance every month? In that case, it doesn't seem like "simple" interest to me. :confuse:
just means that interest is calculated on the balance from the prior month. Once the payment is calculated (total interest + principle amount / term), each monthly payment is the same, but the amount applied to reducing the principle goes up each month (and the corresponding interest amount goes down).
bet he tries to sell them every service under the sun. Did he include:
1. A 72 month 120,000 mile extended warranty contract to protect the lenders [non-permissible content removed] 2. A likewise extended maintainence agreement 3. Lowjack service 4. VIN etching on all windows 5. Scotchguard on the interior 6. Acid rain protection for the cars finish 7. Undercoating protection, "We all know how harsh salt is on an INVESTMENT" 8. GAP insurance, gotta protect that [non-permissible content removed] again 9. Was every dealer accessory in the book added to the Element? Honda dealers are known to pack em up! 10. Arrange automobile comprehensive and liability insurance coverage through the dealership to protect that [non-permissible content removed] again. You know you just can not TRUST some people to pay their insurance premiums especially these "credit challenged" ones. 11. Remember the GF was "credit challenged", don't you love that term, so the interest rate had to be over 20%
OK lets say he did offer all those products to the customer. So whats your point? Did I miss the part where there was a gun being held to the customers head to purchase them? It kills me when people think that if a person is offered a product it is an attempt to screw them. If you don't want it then don't buy it. I guarantee that if the dealer tapes there transaction then they are not packing warranties in the price and are running a fully disclosed office. If they were not then they would not be taping it.
As far as the rate goes, you reap what you sew. It is no different then auto insurance. If I have a good driving record and you have a DUI and 3 tickets your going to pay more then I do.
It is not a crime to offer to sell some one something. The crime (litteraley) occurs when you do not disclose what you are selling and just tell the consumer it is included in the price.
It has nothing nothing to do with me wanting to fleece them for there entire retirement account.
Do you really believe what richard64 just said in post 19532 ? Fist impressions are usually correct !!
You ain’t the good ole boy, buddy, pal, smiley face F&I guy you’d like everyone here to think you are and it took Richard to point that out to us.
Some Red-neck you ain’t. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Good grief. I just realized where you live. Outside of the South, you live in the next most beautiful place.
Your friend is correct. Don't confuse a Red Neck with a Hillbilly. The Hillbilly keeps his truck clean, works for a living, and can be the best friend you ever had. Also, they are not to be confused with PWT which IS another topic altogether.
I am sure there is a few "add ons" I missed that the trusty F&I man did not.
Darn, I got all the ones you mentioned. Are there really more?
I knew I shouldn't have trusted that F&I guy (now I am swearing). The next time I'm going to be a little lot more prepared when I do my research. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No... according to carhag it was not clear. He stated there was a "misunderstanding" and the explanation given wasn't satisfactory to bf/gf. He also insinuated the F & I guy could be abrasive. If the customer was given a price it should have been made clear that the price didn't include tax & title. I don't think someone would drive as far as bf/gf did to make a scene and get a better deal.... which eliminates . That would make the answer D) none of the above.
The customer was informed of the total selling price and told that taxes and fees would be added. He had a target price ( which we agreed to) and he had calculated payments at home. He did not factor into the financed amount the taxes and fees. The gf who was severely credit challenged got a high interest rate. Not my problem, its what the bank approved her at and yes we did make our standard 2% dp on the back. The F&I manager got a little abrasive after the second round of obscenities from the customer.
::Update; I called the bf this morning and he basically said that gf wants the car but he is pushing for something else because he is so insulted. That was my last effort to sell him a car. If he wants to buy it he can call me and assure me of a good survey ( at least those questions regarding me) and I will sell them the car at the agreed upon price.
He just hasn't had his second cup of coffee this morning. We can't judge all F&I's based on my bad experience or the bad experiences of others. I do admit, however, that F&I's scare the hell out of me. When you buy a car every 3 or 4 years, you don't feel as confident as the guy behind the desk.
My convertible arrived at the dealer's last night. Tomorrow I will have to deal with the F&I guy. I'll let you know how I feel after the experience. The sales manager is a nice guy like Mackabee but I haven't met the F&I guy. After spending time on this site with you guys, I hope that I'm better prepared to meet "my maker"!
It is very simple to make sure you are getting the deal you were offered. Once you know the OTD price simply make sure that line 5 of the contract and the total amount financed box in the truth in lending disclosure match your OTD price. If they don't then there is a problem.
Don't let the truth in lending disclosure confuse you either, it will have 5 boxes
First box: Rate
Second: Finance Charges
Third: sale price including TTL and any extras
Fourth: second and third box added together
Fifth: Total sale price including finance charges, money down, rebates, and trade equity. This is the total amount of money you will have invested in the car price if you keep the loan full term.
If you are paying cash then just make sure that you write the check for you agreed on
Don't be intimidated or offended if the guy offers to sell you a warranty, gap, lojack, or anything else. That is his job. Some people see value some don't. If you do not see value then don't purchase it.
Thanks a bunch Joel. I kept the copy of the old Toyota contract. I'll study those boxes you mentioned before I go. For those of you who go back to August with me, I'll be sure that the payoff is on the contract this time!
Excuse me that is trick #48. Trick # 50 is to tell them that the cost of the key's are not included in the car and they will be an extra $200. When they argue you challenge them to show you where it says anything about keys on the window sticker.
Hey Carhag2000 why dont you come clean what you really saw on the F&I tape?
I bet he tries to sell them every service under the sun. Did he include:
1. A 72 month 120,000 mile extended warranty contract to protect the lenders [non-permissible content removed] 2. A likewise extended maintainence agreement 3. Lowjack service 4. VIN etching on all windows 5. Scotchguard on the interior 6. Acid rain protection for the cars finish 7. Undercoating protection, "We all know how harsh salt is on an INVESTMENT" 8. GAP insurance, gotta protect that [non-permissible content removed] again 9. Was every dealer accessory in the book added to the Element? Honda dealers are known to pack em up! 10. Arrange automobile comprehensive and liability insurance coverage through the dealership to protect that [non-permissible content removed] again. You know you just can not TRUST some people to pay their insurance premiums especially these "credit challenged" ones. 11. Remember the GF was "credit challenged", don't you love that term, so the interest rate had to be over 20%
I am sure there is a few "add ons" I missed that the trusty F&I man did not.
Um you are an astute customer weston1. Actually Gap and warranty were the only things offered. Notice I said offered and not forced? The presentation was, " I'd like to show you a couple of ways to protect your investment today." The customer was not told that they had to buy this in order to secure a loan. Gee weston1, why are you so suspicious/bitter? A bad experience in your past? I hope not.
It was 1/2 of 1% more then the buy rate from the bank. The buy rate is the rate that the bank buys the loan from us at, then we can mark it up apercentage for extra (or back end) profit also known as dp. Iirc it was 17.9 buy rate and 18.4 contratc rate. Before the screaming of theft begins, the bank assigns rates due to the amount of risk they assume when they write a loan. If you have bad credit you are usually assumed to be a higher risk to default on a loan.
But than I thought you aren't cherry picking to much if you have over 27 plus up's and counting.
I try to avoid people who are in workout gear. People driving Volvos or Mercedes are typically not my interest either.
I am with you there these people always seem to be upside down about 10,000. Maybe it is just my area.
I would like to add to the list... people wearing sandals are never good. A father and a little girl not old enough to drive a car. They are never buying on the first day ussualy there to get brochures for the wife.
Not across multiple years. That is basically just uplifting the original price by a single x%, and then distributing that total amount across the payment months.
As a consumer I could be wrong, but it really doesn't matter what they are driving or what they are wearing. It is the perfect "UP" when their beacon score pops up at 850.
And how exactly are we supposed to know they have an 850 beacon? By the signs given from their clothes and car. C'mon.... this isn't too hard.
If I have "Thugz for Life" pulling up in a $300 '83 Civic, there's a good indication that they can't buy. I see it time and time again. People don't drive around in those types of cars because they want to, they drive around in them because they HAVE too.
I will cut you some slack because you are just a drive by poster. You will come in, run your key board for a couple of days and then disappear once you figure out what the spirit of the conversation is here.
I have charged rates as high as 27.99% before. The state usury limit in TN is I believe 31% The reason being is that is what they qualified for. Normally that includes 1-2 points of dealer mark up. I have no misgivings or remorse for the customer. They are usually the most thankful when the process is over. if they do as I tell them they will pay that rate for about 18 months. If they continue with the life path that has gotten them to that point then they will pay huge rates for cars and rent apartments all there life.
What I tell them is: You are being given a chance to jump start your credit profile. For this chance you are paying an extremely high rate of interest. If you pay this loan as agreed for approximately 18 months and meet all of your other obligations you should be able to refinance the car or trade it in for another at a lower rate. That lower rate will be something in the mid teens, you will then need to pay on it for 18-24 months and do the same thing again. At that point you should be able to secure a single digit rate. You did not destroy your credit over night, it took time. On the same note you cannot repair it over night, that takes time to. If you fail to pay this loan as agreed do not come back to me asking to help you again, this is a one shot deal.
Ya, hehe. I don't think it would be kind to post it, but I don't meet 2 specific ethnic groups. In my area, 99/100 of 1 particular ethnic group ALWAYS has bad credit and take up ALOT of your time. I've learned my lesson there. I only meet them in very special circumstances.
Other ethnic group negotiates constantly and takes up tons of your time for a mini and a bad survey. I pass. Always. I never meet these folks. Ever.
Was that clear? Lol, sorry if this offends anyone, but it's self preservation for a salesperson. I'll let the greenpeas practice on them. I don't need it.
-Moo
Edit: As far as cherry picking, I've still been able to do that this month. We've had some decent floor traffic. I don't know my exact ups right now, but I've got 14 out the door now and probably around 32 or so met. It's shaping up to be a great month.
When I sold I tried my best to write anyone who would let me. I figured if I continued to throw stuff up against the wall eventually it would start to stick. Every month I would get deals I didn't think would happen and I would not get deals (credit) that I thought were cod locks. Goes back to the whole assume the sale theory.
The hardest negotiators as whole I ever came across were Asian people. They would hang in there with the best of them and 9 times out of 10 would end up a mini. But I needed the mini deals just like I needed the home runs because the key to the pay plan at our store was the 14th unit. That got you to 40% retro back to the first unit, plus units were one of the three things you need to get salesmen of the month, and that got you bragging rights, a little bonus, and a prime parking spot.
I hear ya, but I can't work like that anymore. In the past, I'd work one of these customers and waste so much time and watch as great ups who bought pull in and get sold by other salesmen. I'll roll the dice.
As far as Asian customers, we get a lot of Chinese. They ARE tough customers, but I'll meet them. I can sell them. It won't be a great deal most of the time, but they will actually buy from me.
Hell, my wife is Chinese and she knows how brutal they can negotiate. She's constant practice for me when we're deciding about things around the house. It's like a negotiationfest here. I think going to China really helped me to understand their culture as well. I was blown away by their 'malls' and how EVERYONE negotiated on EVERYTHING. It gave me a whole new understanding of how to work with their culture.
I'm going to share a little bit more, just because I haven't ever seen it posted here. I hope this clarifies my thoughts a little bit.
I was talking with my wife the other day about how I felt racist because I wouldn't meet certain ethnic groups. As we discussed, I don't know if I just rationalized or reasoned it out. At the end of the day, I need to meet people who are buyers and who I can profit from. I've mentioned before about how important a salesmen's time is.
I don't know if it is racism as much as culturalism. Some cultures I just don't get and don't want to be involved with. It's not that I walk around when I'm off work and hate these people. It's simply at work that I won't talk with them.
To be honest I don't know if I went back on the sales floor (which I plan to do when I hit 50 in 8 years) if I could do it like I did when I was younger. At that point I will probably just work repeat and referall customers and you would have to put a gun to my head to get me to take an up at that point. I put my skates up a long time ago and my lot lizard days are probably over.
"I have not said the first thing about the shakers on the front line hustling for customers. Its the back roomers I have problems with."
jweston--
I'm sure that there are still plenty of unscrupulous F & I folks out there, but the process doesn't have to be as adversarial as you paint it--especially if one does a minimal amount of homework rather than buying on impulse.
I bought a new Mazda back in March. After establishing a price, I calculated the monthly payment/total interest on my Palm PDA with a $10 loan software program. The F & I guy's figures matched mine. They gave me the 1.8% Mazda loan rate that I wanted and the only extra pushed was an extended warranty--which I bought after some negotiation. Rather than finance the taxes, I simply went to the tag agency within the next month and paid the 3% tax and the tag/title fees.
Easy peas y. No acrimony, no crying and no regret.
"China really helped me to understand their culture as well. I was blown away by their 'malls' and how EVERYONE negotiated on EVERYTHING."
Even in chain stores at the mall?
I think haggling is the rule in most cultures, but not the US. Must be a shock to them when they try to haggle on a pair shoes at a US store, and the cashier gives them a blank stare.
I don't know if it is racism as much as culturalism. Some cultures I just don't get and don't want to be involved with. It's not that I walk around when I'm off work and hate these people. It's simply at work that I won't talk with them.
I don't know. Anyone else care to share?
Nicely put Moo. I in the same boat as you brother.
So it'd be better to put them in a 3-4 year old nice car that more than likely wouldn't be running before it's paid for leaving them without a vehicle but with the payments??? And I don't personally know him, doubt you do either, so it's really not fair to proclaim hwe wouldn't give a rats [non-permissible content removed] about anything. But you've made your position clear, so I'll stop wasting my time, better luck with your next car purchase...
That would work. Along with paying the bills on time, which they obviously have not done. He never said he was going to sell them a new car every 18 months, just that they would need that long to reestablish some credit.
Work is work. This isn't a charity we're talking about. You need to do what is right for your bank account. I can't go home to my wife and tell her that I can't pay the mortgage this month but everyone at work loves me or my customers love me.
Someone I used to work with (who's a good friend now) said to me once "Peter, you're a nice guy and all, but I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to make money. That's it." I was offended for about 10 secounds but realized that it was absolutely true. We all work to live, not live to work (to quote someone else I used to work with).
As for ethnic groups, you guys probably right about Asians haggling like crazy. I'm Korean and I remember tagging along with my mom to buy cars when I was a kid. She didn't know anything about sticker, invoice, edmunds, kbb, etc. She would just sit the salesguy out until they gave her the price she wanted. I'm sure they made some money off her but I just remember sitting around for hours and hours until the Korean salesguy just threw his hands up and said ok, sign here please. I remember the salesguy on our 94 Grand Cherokee saying something about how the price that she wanted and got was the tissue price. Is that a real term?
As for me, I don't haggle at all. It takes too long. I just get multiple quotes including doc fee from 2-4 dealers and my car broker and just go with the lowest offer. If it involves a test drive, I give that dealer a chance to beat the lowest offer (assuming his price wasn't the lowest).
So, it takes a few hours to collect quotes and another few hours at the winning dealer to write everything up. I never understood why people drove from dealer to dealer all day. It's such a waste of time (and gas). I guess the only reason you would have to go in person is to evaluate a trade. I hate trade-ins for that reason. I wouldn't go to more than 2 dealers (3 if the first 2 are far apart) for a trade-in situation. I guess I would involve my broker too (he's a friend of a friend).
On a completely different note, the fact that it takes a few hours to collect 2-4 quotes bothers me. My car broker calls or emails me back in less than 30 mins (usually faster). I ask for and he gives me MSRP, selling price, doc fee, TTL, and final OTD price. If it's a lease, he also outlines the residual as % and dollar, money factor, and bank fee. I also like everything rolled into the cap cost so only the first month's payment is due at signing.
Getting this information from SOME (not all) other salespeople is like pulling teeth. Most of them want you to come in, test drive, and then talk price. I'll be polite and just reiterate what I'm looking for. I won't work with someone who won't/can't provide me with these numbers over the phone or by email. I also try not to contact dealers that have ads on the radio where the guy yells at you about everyone being approved or tow your trade in and we'll give you $5000 for it. They're so annoying.
Off the top of my head, I know 3 Toyota salespeople that are very good about getting back to you on price. I don't know any good Honda guys. It seems like most of the Honda internet salespeople around here (NY/NJ) gather leads online and then just pass them onto salesguys on the floor. The Toyota guys seem to have the ability to call their own numbers (within reason, of course).
There is one Honda dealer here (Open Road Honda of Edison, NJ) that gives you a quote online instantly. You just print out the number and take it to the dealer. The only thing is that the quote does not include destination and they charge a $298 doc fee. Open Road also has other brands so maybe all their dealers give you these instant quotes. I really like this system (assuming they honor it). I've only used them once and they did. The only bad thing is that their numbers are usually the most aggressive in the area. High volume models like the Pilot and 2007 and before Accord are sold at a price below invoice minus incentive. By dipping into holdback, I guess the deal has very little gross (if any at all). So, the salesguy just gets a mini for going on the test drive and filling out the paperwork. The dealer makes their money through the $298 doc fee.
Anyway, that's my rant for the quarter. I rarely post here but I'm always lurking. I too wish you guys were local. I would definitely give any one of you guys the last look on my purchases.
I'm not that uptight about spelling on message boards, and I'm not surprised to see a rarely used word like 'piqued' misspelled. But Joel, I gotta break my own rule and call you on the post where you talked about the caveman selling two pounds of tyrannosaurus (which you spelled correctly!) meet. Surprised no one else said anything about that one.
Didn't your second grade teacher ever tell you the memory trick for 'meat' and 'meet'? You eat meat, you don't eet meet. I used to razz some vegetarian friends of mine by telling them the spelling of meat makes sense, because when I see meat, my brain thinks "mmmmmmmmm...eat". :P
Comments
Unless you grew up in the South, it is difficult to understand the meaning of the term "Red Neck" as it has various implications in identifying and dealing with people. Basically there are five types of Red Necks in the South:
(1) Those with no taste---in cars or anything else
(2) Those with no education---can't read, write, or comprehend well
(3) Those who know better and just pretend to be Red Necks to shock other people
(4) Those who have bettered themselves and are to be admired---but still may face some discrimination in the South
(5) Those who are named "Bubba", chew tobacco, spit on the streets, drive ragged pick'em up trucks, and think that New Mexico is a country in Europe
Before you say that I am a snob, allow me to point out that I grew up with another close friend who was a Red Neck. He just retired from Harvard as head of their English Department and has two sons who are attorneys in New York---a city on the East Coast.
Mackabee
Oh by the way, there is no such thing as the "perfect up". You have to turn them into one.
And the first thing they always say is "Just lookin'" :P
If you walk to school with your 16 year old son to attend 3rd grade....you might be a redneck.
Couldn't resist, with thanks to Jeff Foxworthy.
Mackabee
Remember, this is on a Saturday afternoon......and yes I bought a truck that day so he got half of the commission and no it wasn't a mini by no means.
And thank you for clearing up the term redneck as I'm often corrected by friends. For example, I thought that Hannah Montana's dad was a redneck till someone corrected me and informed me that "he's not a redneck ...that there is a hillbilly". Pardon me for my ignorance. And thanks again for the clarification.
I also mistake rednecks for TPT but that's another topic all together.
Richard, let me clarify why that is my perfect up.
If you got a guy in a Crown Vic with a UAW cap, title and check book in pocket, and wife checking console here is what that means.
1. Odds on he is here for another white Crown Vic just like he is driving.
2. Title in pocket means his trade is paid for
3. Check book with title means he is paying cash. No finance worries
4. UAW cap in my area means he works/worked at the Ford Glass plant which means he is A-plan. Set price 4% back of cost no haggle.
5. Wife checking console means she is making sure they did not forget anything in the car they are here to trade.
Only hurdle is trade in and there cars are usually immaculant meaning it will bring top dollar.
Quick deal in and out in 45 minutes to an hour. A little longer if clean up is backed up or the PDI (pre delivery inspection) has not been done.
It has nothing nothing to do with me wanting to fleece them for there entire retirement account.
Isn't that how simple interest works?? :confuse: I honestly want to know. Or is it that interest is charged on the balance every month? In that case, it doesn't seem like "simple" interest to me. :confuse:
Same way that normal home mortgages work.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Did he include:
1. A 72 month 120,000 mile extended warranty contract to protect the lenders [non-permissible content removed]
2. A likewise extended maintainence agreement
3. Lowjack service
4. VIN etching on all windows
5. Scotchguard on the interior
6. Acid rain protection for the cars finish
7. Undercoating protection, "We all know how harsh salt is on an INVESTMENT"
8. GAP insurance, gotta protect that [non-permissible content removed] again
9. Was every dealer accessory in the book added to the Element? Honda dealers are known to pack em up!
10. Arrange automobile comprehensive and liability insurance coverage through the dealership to protect that [non-permissible content removed] again. You know you just can not TRUST some people to pay their insurance premiums especially these "credit challenged" ones.
11. Remember the GF was "credit challenged", don't you love that term, so the interest rate had to be over 20%
OK lets say he did offer all those products to the customer. So whats your point? Did I miss the part where there was a gun being held to the customers head to purchase them? It kills me when people think that if a person is offered a product it is an attempt to screw them. If you don't want it then don't buy it. I guarantee that if the dealer tapes there transaction then they are not packing warranties in the price and are running a fully disclosed office. If they were not then they would not be taping it.
As far as the rate goes, you reap what you sew. It is no different then auto insurance. If I have a good driving record and you have a DUI and 3 tickets your going to pay more then I do.
It is not a crime to offer to sell some one something. The crime (litteraley) occurs when you do not disclose what you are selling and just tell the consumer it is included in the price.
Do you really believe what richard64 just said in post 19532 ? Fist impressions are usually correct !!
You ain’t the good ole boy, buddy, pal, smiley face F&I guy you’d like everyone here to think you are and it took Richard to point that out to us.
Some Red-neck you ain’t. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Your friend is correct. Don't confuse a Red Neck with a Hillbilly. The Hillbilly keeps his truck clean, works for a living, and can be the best friend you ever had. Also, they are not to be confused with PWT which IS another topic altogether.
Darn, I got all the ones you mentioned. Are there really more?
I knew I shouldn't have trusted that F&I guy (now I am swearing). The next time I'm going to be a
littlelot more prepared when I do my research. :mad:jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
...and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a car from you, wish you were local.
The customer was informed of the total selling price and told that taxes and fees would be added. He had a target price ( which we agreed to) and he had calculated payments at home. He did not factor into the financed amount the taxes and fees. The gf who was severely credit challenged got a high interest rate. Not my problem, its what the bank approved her at and yes we did make our standard 2% dp on the back. The F&I manager got a little abrasive after the second round of obscenities from the customer.
::Update; I called the bf this morning and he basically said that gf wants the car but he is pushing for something else because he is so insulted. That was my last effort to sell him a car. If he wants to buy it he can call me and assure me of a good survey ( at least those questions regarding me) and I will sell them the car at the agreed upon price.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My convertible arrived at the dealer's last night. Tomorrow I will have to deal with the F&I guy. I'll let you know how I feel after the experience. The sales manager is a nice guy like Mackabee but I haven't met the F&I guy. After spending time on this site with you guys, I hope that I'm better prepared to meet "my maker"!
Don't let the truth in lending disclosure confuse you either, it will have 5 boxes
First box: Rate
Second: Finance Charges
Third: sale price including TTL and any extras
Fourth: second and third box added together
Fifth: Total sale price including finance charges, money down, rebates, and trade equity. This is the total amount of money you will have invested in the car price if you keep the loan full term.
If you are paying cash then just make sure that you write the check for you agreed on
Don't be intimidated or offended if the guy offers to sell you a warranty, gap, lojack, or anything else. That is his job. Some people see value some don't. If you do not see value then don't purchase it.
That does it! I knew this place was bugged. Before I do one more thing, I'm going to have security come in here and 'sweep' this office. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But remember that it was the last president from NEW YORK was the one who married his cousin.
I bet he tries to sell them every service under the sun.
Did he include:
1. A 72 month 120,000 mile extended warranty contract to protect the lenders [non-permissible content removed]
2. A likewise extended maintainence agreement
3. Lowjack service
4. VIN etching on all windows
5. Scotchguard on the interior
6. Acid rain protection for the cars finish
7. Undercoating protection, "We all know how harsh salt is on an INVESTMENT"
8. GAP insurance, gotta protect that [non-permissible content removed] again
9. Was every dealer accessory in the book added to the Element? Honda dealers are known to pack em up!
10. Arrange automobile comprehensive and liability insurance coverage through the dealership to protect that [non-permissible content removed] again. You know you just can not TRUST some people to pay their insurance premiums especially these "credit challenged" ones.
11. Remember the GF was "credit challenged", don't you love that term, so the interest rate had to be over 20%
I am sure there is a few "add ons" I missed that the trusty F&I man did not.
Um you are an astute customer weston1. Actually Gap and warranty were the only things offered. Notice I said offered and not forced? The presentation was, " I'd like to show you a couple of ways to protect your investment today." The customer was not told that they had to buy this in order to secure a loan. Gee weston1, why are you so suspicious/bitter? A bad experience in your past? I hope not.
Trick #50 of the trade.
Geez, give the salesman/F&I guys a break. Is it any wonder that salesman stop posting stories here? :mad:
It was 1/2 of 1% more then the buy rate from the bank. The buy rate is the rate that the bank buys the loan from us at, then we can mark it up apercentage for extra (or back end) profit also known as dp. Iirc it was 17.9 buy rate and 18.4 contratc rate. Before the screaming of theft begins, the bank assigns rates due to the amount of risk they assume when they write a loan. If you have bad credit you are usually assumed to be a higher risk to default on a loan.
LOL... That was honest.
But than I thought you aren't cherry picking to much if you have over 27 plus up's and counting.
I try to avoid people who are in workout gear. People driving Volvos or Mercedes are typically not my interest either.
I am with you there these people always seem to be upside down about 10,000. Maybe it is just my area.
I would like to add to the list... people wearing sandals are never good. A father and a little girl not old enough to drive a car. They are never buying on the first day ussualy there to get brochures for the wife.
certain ethnic groupsTake it easy I am trying to answer a question
Does that make you a pimp? :P
That's not even close to accurate.
And how exactly are we supposed to know they have an 850 beacon? By the signs given from their clothes and car. C'mon.... this isn't too hard.
If I have "Thugz for Life" pulling up in a $300 '83 Civic, there's a good indication that they can't buy. I see it time and time again. People don't drive around in those types of cars because they want to, they drive around in them because they HAVE too.
-Moo
I have charged rates as high as 27.99% before. The state usury limit in TN is I believe 31% The reason being is that is what they qualified for. Normally that includes 1-2 points of dealer mark up. I have no misgivings or remorse for the customer. They are usually the most thankful when the process is over. if they do as I tell them they will pay that rate for about 18 months. If they continue with the life path that has gotten them to that point then they will pay huge rates for cars and rent apartments all there life.
What I tell them is: You are being given a chance to jump start your credit profile. For this chance you are paying an extremely high rate of interest. If you pay this loan as agreed for approximately 18 months and meet all of your other obligations you should be able to refinance the car or trade it in for another at a lower rate. That lower rate will be something in the mid teens, you will then need to pay on it for 18-24 months and do the same thing again. At that point you should be able to secure a single digit rate. You did not destroy your credit over night, it took time. On the same note you cannot repair it over night, that takes time to. If you fail to pay this loan as agreed do not come back to me asking to help you again, this is a one shot deal.
certain ethnic groups
Ya, hehe. I don't think it would be kind to post it, but I don't meet 2 specific ethnic groups. In my area, 99/100 of 1 particular ethnic group ALWAYS has bad credit and take up ALOT of your time. I've learned my lesson there. I only meet them in very special circumstances.
Other ethnic group negotiates constantly and takes up tons of your time for a mini and a bad survey. I pass. Always. I never meet these folks. Ever.
Was that clear? Lol, sorry if this offends anyone, but it's self preservation for a salesperson. I'll let the greenpeas practice on them. I don't need it.
-Moo
Edit: As far as cherry picking, I've still been able to do that this month. We've had some decent floor traffic. I don't know my exact ups right now, but I've got 14 out the door now and probably around 32 or so met. It's shaping up to be a great month.
The hardest negotiators as whole I ever came across were Asian people. They would hang in there with the best of them and 9 times out of 10 would end up a mini. But I needed the mini deals just like I needed the home runs because the key to the pay plan at our store was the 14th unit. That got you to 40% retro back to the first unit, plus units were one of the three things you need to get salesmen of the month, and that got you bragging rights, a little bonus, and a prime parking spot.
And that would be TOTALLY illegal. But then again, it is obvious that you believe all dealers are guilty until proven innocent.
J--
I believe that you mean he "piqued" your interest unless you are saying that obyone is a voyeurist.
Gogiboy
As far as Asian customers, we get a lot of Chinese. They ARE tough customers, but I'll meet them. I can sell them. It won't be a great deal most of the time, but they will actually buy from me.
Hell, my wife is Chinese and she knows how brutal they can negotiate. She's constant practice for me when we're deciding about things around the house. It's like a negotiationfest here. I think going to China really helped me to understand their culture as well. I was blown away by their 'malls' and how EVERYONE negotiated on EVERYTHING. It gave me a whole new understanding of how to work with their culture.
-Moo
I was talking with my wife the other day about how I felt racist because I wouldn't meet certain ethnic groups. As we discussed, I don't know if I just rationalized or reasoned it out. At the end of the day, I need to meet people who are buyers and who I can profit from. I've mentioned before about how important a salesmen's time is.
I don't know if it is racism as much as culturalism. Some cultures I just don't get and don't want to be involved with. It's not that I walk around when I'm off work and hate these people. It's simply at work that I won't talk with them.
I don't know. Anyone else care to share?
-Moo
Anyone in the business will agree that some people are MUCH harder to deal with than others.
jweston--
I'm sure that there are still plenty of unscrupulous F & I folks out there, but the process doesn't have to be as adversarial as you paint it--especially if one does a minimal amount of homework rather than buying on impulse.
I bought a new Mazda back in March. After establishing a price, I calculated the monthly payment/total interest on my Palm PDA with a $10 loan software program. The F & I guy's figures matched mine. They gave me the 1.8% Mazda loan rate that I wanted and the only extra pushed was an extended warranty--which I bought after some negotiation.
Rather than finance the taxes, I simply went to the tag agency within the next month and paid the 3% tax and the tag/title fees.
Easy peas y. No acrimony, no crying and no regret.
Gogiboy
You know that for a fact or is that just as assumption on your part???
Even in chain stores at the mall?
I think haggling is the rule in most cultures, but not the US. Must be a shock to them when they try to haggle on a pair shoes at a US store, and the cashier gives them a blank stare.
I don't know. Anyone else care to share?
Nicely put Moo. I in the same boat as you brother.
Someone I used to work with (who's a good friend now) said to me once "Peter, you're a nice guy and all, but I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to make money. That's it." I was offended for about 10 secounds but realized that it was absolutely true. We all work to live, not live to work (to quote someone else I used to work with).
As for ethnic groups, you guys probably right about Asians haggling like crazy. I'm Korean and I remember tagging along with my mom to buy cars when I was a kid. She didn't know anything about sticker, invoice, edmunds, kbb, etc. She would just sit the salesguy out until they gave her the price she wanted. I'm sure they made some money off her but I just remember sitting around for hours and hours until the Korean salesguy just threw his hands up and said ok, sign here please. I remember the salesguy on our 94 Grand Cherokee saying something about how the price that she wanted and got was the tissue price. Is that a real term?
As for me, I don't haggle at all. It takes too long. I just get multiple quotes including doc fee from 2-4 dealers and my car broker and just go with the lowest offer. If it involves a test drive, I give that dealer a chance to beat the lowest offer (assuming his price wasn't the lowest).
So, it takes a few hours to collect quotes and another few hours at the winning dealer to write everything up. I never understood why people drove from dealer to dealer all day. It's such a waste of time (and gas). I guess the only reason you would have to go in person is to evaluate a trade. I hate trade-ins for that reason. I wouldn't go to more than 2 dealers (3 if the first 2 are far apart) for a trade-in situation. I guess I would involve my broker too (he's a friend of a friend).
On a completely different note, the fact that it takes a few hours to collect 2-4 quotes bothers me. My car broker calls or emails me back in less than 30 mins (usually faster). I ask for and he gives me MSRP, selling price, doc fee, TTL, and final OTD price. If it's a lease, he also outlines the residual as % and dollar, money factor, and bank fee. I also like everything rolled into the cap cost so only the first month's payment is due at signing.
Getting this information from SOME (not all) other salespeople is like pulling teeth. Most of them want you to come in, test drive, and then talk price. I'll be polite and just reiterate what I'm looking for. I won't work with someone who won't/can't provide me with these numbers over the phone or by email. I also try not to contact dealers that have ads on the radio where the guy yells at you about everyone being approved or tow your trade in and we'll give you $5000 for it. They're so annoying.
Off the top of my head, I know 3 Toyota salespeople that are very good about getting back to you on price. I don't know any good Honda guys. It seems like most of the Honda internet salespeople around here (NY/NJ) gather leads online and then just pass them onto salesguys on the floor. The Toyota guys seem to have the ability to call their own numbers (within reason, of course).
There is one Honda dealer here (Open Road Honda of Edison, NJ) that gives you a quote online instantly. You just print out the number and take it to the dealer. The only thing is that the quote does not include destination and they charge a $298 doc fee. Open Road also has other brands so maybe all their dealers give you these instant quotes. I really like this system (assuming they honor it). I've only used them once and they did. The only bad thing is that their numbers are usually the most aggressive in the area. High volume models like the Pilot and 2007 and before Accord are sold at a price below invoice minus incentive. By dipping into holdback, I guess the deal has very little gross (if any at all). So, the salesguy just gets a mini for going on the test drive and filling out the paperwork. The dealer makes their money through the $298 doc fee.
Anyway, that's my rant for the quarter. I rarely post here but I'm always lurking. I too wish you guys were local. I would definitely give any one of you guys the last look on my purchases.
Thanks,
Peter
J--
I believe that you mean he "piqued" your interest unless you are saying that obyone is a voyeurist.
Gogiboy
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I'm not that uptight about spelling on message boards, and I'm not surprised to see a rarely used word like 'piqued' misspelled. But Joel, I gotta break my own rule and call you on the post where you talked about the caveman selling two pounds of tyrannosaurus (which you spelled correctly!) meet. Surprised no one else said anything about that one.
Didn't your second grade teacher ever tell you the memory trick for 'meat' and 'meet'? You eat meat, you don't eet meet. I used to razz some vegetarian friends of mine by telling them the spelling of meat makes sense, because when I see meat, my brain thinks "mmmmmmmmm...eat". :P
Steve