Stories from the Sales Frontlines

13743753773793802003

Comments

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I guess some need to express themselves in different ways. Thank god Edmunds doesnt allow people to express themselves in that fashion.....
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    I never knew that the F&I transaction was taped. It does make sense. Do you disclose to the customer that they are being taped?
  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    Do you disclose to the customer that they are being taped?

    Yes we disclose to them that they are being taped. It eliminates a lot of he said she said stuff.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    We have one customer who owns a cleaners that ghas bought 3 Range Rovers from us
  • sky23213sky23213 Member Posts: 300
    I've heard other salespeople mention that also. It may be up to the dealership to decide if they want to do that. Although makes sense for a law to exist that would require disclosure. Just depends how bad things are. Rarely as bad as with this dealer chain we have in MN - Denny Hecker Auto. They take the "yellow jersey" with the screamer ads and "We finance everyone" campaigns. Real champs:

    Government Actions

    In June 2002, the Minnesota Attorney General stated that an agreement with Denny Hecker Automotive Group and Walden Automotive Inc., had been reached in regard to its practices concerning automobile service contracts. Under the agreement, Hecker will make an audio recording of the entire business transaction of the selling of any optional insurance or service products. Consumers will be informed of the recording and be able to decline being tape recorded. The attorney general's office and/or consumers can request copies of the transactions. Hecker will not inform customers that service contracts are required, nor that getting a service contract will help with financing or that the contract is included in the price of the vehicle. The agreement is not an admission of fact, or violation of the law for any purpose.

    On July 2, 2004 a supplemental agreement was reached between the Attorney General and Denny Hecker Automotive Group. In the supplemental agreement the Attorney General's Office alleges the company had violated the provisions of the original agreement. The supplemental agreement is not an admission of fact or violation of law for any purpose. In addition to fulfilling the original agreement, the company shall pay the State of Minnesota $250,000.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Although this is merely a slap on the wrist, as they deserved a more severe penalty, I for one in the business am glad they were punished.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I remember the Hudson Hornet.

    Recently made famous again by the movie Cars.


    Thanks for the link. I’ll have to rent the DVD now that you peeked my interest.

    I remember riding in them and they rode pretty nice. I also remember my uncle saying that the Hudson rode so much better than the Nash’s (another car everyone remembers) my father and another uncle had back then. The link mentioned that Hudson and Nash merged at some point. It’s hard to believe a car company like that would eventually fold. :confuse:

    I never knew they were considered racing machines. Now I’m wondering why he never challenged his relatives to a race around the block. :surprise:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    F&I are paid commissions. It's base is slightly different from the sales people but they do make commission on sales.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    The Hudson was over engineered and ahead of its time. Back then Americans cared for neither....unfortunately.

    I think the word cheap was used when buying cars.
  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    He jacked numbers around on the customer and the customer caught the ole bait and switch tactic. In the future you need to follow your customer throughout the buying process to avoid the little mishaps. You lost out on a $400.00 deal for this clown. He did not care because he is on salary and no grass off his assend.

    Terrypm if you would read earlier posts you would see that I viewed the F&I tape and it was miscalculation by the customer not adding tax and title before calculating a payment. The customer then decided to become verbally abusive in a manner that was way more than the situation called for.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Looks more like they were looking for a reason to back out of the deal and blaming F&I for it.

    Course that wouldn't be a first.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Could be backing out and could be just the guy making his mistake and blaming the F&I guy.

    It's easy enough to get into a misunderstanding. You guys do this all day long. For those of us buying it's something we only do occasionally and some of the rules change from one transaction to the next.

    It's certainly best to figure out each piece of the puzzle, and this guy could have figured out the discrepancy, but it just takes one brain fart to go into "I'm getting ripped off" mode. I would guess this would be doubly true for the oldest new car on the lot and triply so with an Element.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I guess that's why a lot of sales people here advocate negotiating an OTD price. That way no confusion cept of course for the mop and glo.....
  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    Looks more like they were looking for a reason to back out of the deal and blaming F&I for it.

    Course that wouldn't be a first

    Sir, I beg to differ. If I were a less loving person I would take that as a slur on my profession. But I am a man with a big heart. Have a wonderful day. ;)
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I wish we taped ours, hopefully we do it in the new store. There have been several occasions where I would have liked to be able to roll tape to refresh a customers memory.

    You can have them sign 47 forms in triplicate and selective memory loss still kicks in when the ether wears off.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yeah, I could see that. For years now I've always prefaced any haggling with the fact that I do not want any mop and glow, rust and dust or any other add on. If told it's already on everything I walk. The only time I got nailed on it was the first new car I bought.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    You can have them sign 47 forms in triplicate and selective memory loss still kicks in when the ether wears off.

    Once had an F&I guy from Louisiana. He was a ragin cajun for sure. He would offer to 100% of our customers, a service contract. A couple came in and bought a used cavalier. Declined service contract. 1 month later something major went bad on their car. As a good will gesture we towed their car to our dealership for free to have it looked at and diagnosed. Tow was about 65 miles. Customer was understandably upset and was making a scene in our showroom. Our ragin cajun heard the commotion and came out. In an extremely loud voice he starts berating the customer. " You big dummy I TOLD you to buy a warranty. Whats wrong with you?" Then when the customer started to protest that he hadnt been offered a cvhance he dragged them into his office and showed them the tape! It was pretty funny.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Good Story

    I think sales and profit would go up with a taped process. The reason being is allot of people will say they offer 100% of the product to 100% of the people 100% of the time, but we don't. I have embarrassed myself before by pre-judging and not offering a Lojack system to a customer and come to find out he was buddy's with my Lojack Rep and had a coupon in his pocket to buy one for $200 off, and I never even offered it because I was being lazy and only pitched the warranty and did not go through my menu. :blush:

    Now if you are being recorded you will do it 100% of the time because ya never know when Big Brother might review a delivery.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,499
    "...The f#***ing F&I man screwed you out of a sale..."

    I forget, what does F&I stand for? Fighting & Insurrection? ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    When did customers start taking calculators into a F&I room to calculate their own payments

    I have personally seen it happen a lot. Anyone else see customers with calculators in F&I?
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    When did customers start taking calculators into a F&I room to calculate their own payments? Probably when FI guys started quoting payments without tax and title fees involved. I personally would have been verbal also. What a jackass in FI.

    I've always done that. Carhag already said he reviewed the tape and the F&I guy did everything right. Customer probably thought he was buying a car for x and calculated his payments x/months. He should've done x + taxes + fees / months. Depending on where you live and the car you buy, the taxes and fees can be several thousand dollars.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    When did customers start taking calculators into a F&I room to calculate their own payments? Probably when FI guys started quoting payments without tax and title fees involved.

    Actually, when I was in F&I full time I had quite a few (usually engineers) who brought thier HPs in with them. Were they ever surprised when the calculator match my computer. You do sound anti dealer though. Every place I have worked quoted OTD payments. Now I work the deaql right in front of the customer - it sure makes it easier.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    $408.70 bitter better?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    image
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    I have personally seen it happen a lot. Anyone else see customers with calculators in F&I?

    Thanks to my trusty calculator I was able to figure out the interest rate when they just wanted to tell me payments. Once I stopped laughing at the rate (over 5% higher than what I got), I got a good rate.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,499
    I don't like all those fancy buttons. My caculator has four functions and a bunny on it. :blush: That's always been enough for me.

    Besides, they have to tell you what the rate is don't they? Or is that just in NY?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    Oh I forgot the GF was credit challenged add another 10% to the finance rate the F&I guy was charging. Does 23.56% sound about right. I would have been verbal also.

    Wow...so had bad did you get taken???
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Wow...so had bad did you get taken???

    I'm guessing about 23.56% :P
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Yeah, but they gave him a deal on mop and glow, croak and choke and rust and dust.
  • fordfoolfordfool Member Posts: 240
    Perhaps some of you sales folks can answer something that I've wondered about. What is the stereotype of an ideal up?

    The ideal up drives onto the lot. What kind of car is he or she driving (newer, older, the same make that you sell)? The driver is male, female, or a couple? He is young, middle-aged, or older? Dressed in jeans and a tee-shirt, neat but casual, or business dress? And when you ask if you can be of service, he or she replies…? :)
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    It doesn't matter and he/she says yes.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    . What is the stereotype of an ideal up?

    The truth of the matter is that you can't tell who is the best till after you meet them and start talking to them.

    The ideal up is one that lets you sell them a car, truck, SUV. One that is happy with your service and lets you make all the money on them and they are still happy giving you perfect CSI.

    Plus they also send refferals to you.

    After 3 years they come back to you and buy again because you kept in contact with them. :)
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    What's also missing is the dealership's fees. Now that's a whole story in itself.....if I remember correctly.

    So what fees were they quoted for T&L? was that also included on the tape? or not?
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Why would it not be included in the tape? If you read the whole thread, it is clear that the customer
    A. made the mistake
    B. made a scene to try and get a better deal
    C all the above.

    Don't be so quick to pin it on the dealer :mad:
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    ..it is clear that the customer A). made the mistake.

    No... according to carhag it was not clear. He stated there was a "misunderstanding" and the explanation given wasn't satisfactory to bf/gf. He also insinuated the F & I guy could be abrasive. If the customer was given a price it should have been made clear that the price didn't include tax & title. I don't think someone would drive as far as bf/gf did to make a scene and get a better deal.... which eliminates B). That would make the answer D) none of the above. :surprise:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I know you would! Thing is we checked out the subsequent generations and they changed suspensions on us and it was just not the same. :) But do keep an eye out for a 91-94 gen 5spd in good condition and I'll go down there and buy it from you.
    :)\
    Mack
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,617
    When did customers start taking calculators into a F&I room to calculate their own payments

    I do it, but remember i am a number cruncher and will take any opportunity to run numbers. Also as an accountant I tend to cringe when I see that numbers are not checked. We are always checking each others work at work and I really expect that in any financial calculation.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    What is the stereotype of an ideal up?

    When I was on the sales floor the perfect up was an older couple driving a 4 year old Crown Vic, when they got out of the car the husband had the Title and his check book in his front pocket and a UAW ball cap on, and the wife double checked the center console to make sure she did not leave any kleenex in the car they have come to trade.

    You already know they want another white one just like there driving, there A-plan, and he is paying cash. 45 minute deal tops.
    That my friends is "The Perfect Up"
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I get people with Calculators all the time. 90% of them either don't know how to use them or don't know what information to punch in in the first place. I also get lap tops and spread sheets all the time to.

    I ignore them all, I know my info is right and no matter what your spread sheet or calculator says thats not what determines what goes on the contract I will be signing.

    For those who figure it right I applaud there effort.

    You would be amazed at how many chowder heads think the way you figure a payment is to multiply the bottom line by the rate and divide it by the term Thats usually what I get from my TI 34 slingers
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Joel,

    a 'chowder head' is what?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    From chowder + head. One might be a chowder-head if one doesn't use one's brains effectively, which would give others the opinion that one has clam-chowder for brains.

    Not to be confused with Knuckle or Chuckle Head. Also a couple of my personal favorites.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    I cherrypick the crap out of ups. I MUST to stay away from folks who just are determined to waste your time.

    As a disclaimer, this all depends on the make of vehicle that you're selling.

    I like to scope their car as they pull up. I sell Nissans and if I see a late model Maxima pulling up, I'm typically going to want to meet those folks. If I see an out of state or local county plate, I like to meet those folks. Out of state folks, because we get a decent amount of business from folks driving into town to purchase a vehicle in GA. We tend to have some better deals.

    I like old folks, older single women and mom and dad with kids. I try to avoid women with notepads in their hands.

    It really does depend, sometimes I can just get a sixth sense about folks. I try to avoid people who are in workout gear. People driving Volvos or Mercedes are typically not my interest either.

    Keep in mind, these are all general ideas. I never stick completely to them.

    As far as what their first response is.... that really depends. You have to ask a few questions to get an idea from them. The worst response to "how can I be of service"...... Who wants to sell a car today?

    Hope that helps a little bit. These may seem obvious, but it's something to work on.

    -MOo
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I read the whole thread. Nothing said about T&L or any fees.

    They did make a scene and eventually got a token couple of bills off. Still no reason for the blow up was there? Cept the presence of the F&I guy.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    As a consumer I could be wrong, but it really doesn't matter what they are driving or what they are wearing. It is the perfect "UP" when their beacon score pops up at 850.

    I'm surprised at Joel. Looks like he loves to sucker in old people. Hope I haven't misread this guy.

    Old Farmer needs an update as to "F&I". It stands for "Fibs and Insults".

    As to taping, I wonder how many F&I's forget to disclose this to customers?

    As to laptops and spreadsheets, some may not care what mine says, but his had better match mine if a deal is to be had.

    As to the bf and gf deal, it is obvious that they are Red Necks. The burst of emotion is a defense strategy to save face because they don't have the intellect to understand the deal. Though some F&I's are there because they couldn't cut it elsewhere in the corporate world, I believe in this case that the bf and gf are just clueless. As we say in the South---"Bless their hearts!"
  • featherzfeatherz Member Posts: 26
    Heh, I'm a woman with a notebook in my hand (and a pile of printouts). And I wear workout gear and/or jeans. No wonder I can wander lots without getting bothered! :)

    Then again, at least for my last three cars, I didn't wander on the lot, I haggled over email and brought my own financing. I guess that's why I might not be a good up. :)

    Some of these F&I stories remind me of my late father. He was a gentleman and a saint but he would get his back up in F&I if he thought someone was trying to pull a fast one. Funny thing is now that I know better I know he had no clue what he was doing. He negotiated only on payments, always bought the mop and glow and felt it necessary to walk out two-three times just to get a lower price without even researching what a price should be..
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    You go girl! Keep them guessing. My father was the same way. He always told me that the payment was the bottom line. Though I now know better, it amazes me how many good deals he got back in the '50's. But then it WAS the '50's and what could ever go wrong in the '50's?!
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    So Richard...what does the color of their neck have anything to do with this deal? You implying something?

    Bet you never owned a Hudson Hornet...
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    You've never seen Cars! and you call yourself a car guy! Lighting McQueen, Sally, DocHudson, and Mater are my carspace friends. I have Mater on my desk as I write this. Cars is my grandson's favorite movie besides Spiderman. :)
    He knows the movie by heart and has quite the toy collection. I got him a racetrack last weekend while I was up there with some of the characters from the movie.image That's why I was up so late!
    :)
    MaCK
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Correct. Especially with out of state buyers since sales taxes and registration fees vary by state. Some customers automatically assume the price includes ttl and doc fees.
    :)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    When I quote an OTD price I tell the customer(s) up front that it does not include any service contract, paint protection, undercoating, etc, that will be offered to them. Those extras are up to them if they choose to purchase. It's been my experience that most customers who tell me they don't want the stuff and not waste their time with the presentation end up buying them. Go figure! ;)
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