Stories from the Sales Frontlines

isellhondas

With all due respect, it sounds like this car has had a HARD driver! It takes a LOT of heat to warp a rotor.

Or a tire jockey with a high powered impact gun can warp them too. They don't warp by themselves.

isellhondas

Didn't try to. Just stating a fact.

Another reason I don't much care for European cars.

I've owned two BMW'a and that is enough.

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jmonroe

Huh figured it would be more then that.

OK, it's slow here, I'll bite, how much were you figurin? :P

jmonroe

robr2

With all due respect, it sounds like this car has had a HARD driver! It takes a LOT of heat to warp a rotor.

With all due respect, I am not a hard driver. I managed to get 110K from the front pads on my 91 Accord. In fact, the Honda service manager didn't blink an eye and replaced them under warranty saying he'd been having issues with them. This same Honda required rear pad and rotors at 30K and another set of front pads and rotors at 45K. For the last set, I went aftermarket and they were going fine at 90K when the car was totalled.

Or a tire jockey with a high powered impact gun can warp them too.

And again with all due respect, the only tire jockey that touched that car was a Honda tech. I presume techs are trained to use a torque wrench although I always check my wheels with my own prior to leaving ANY shop just in case - including that 98.

I know you sell Hondas and would defend them to the death. Among my direct family we've owned 7 over the past 16 years. They are great cars but not perfect. Suprisingly the VW Passat I now have has spent less time in the shop and cost me less in service than the 98 Accord did. One piece of trim, a CEL and normal service in 30K. I've been pleasantly suprised.

lrguy44

I was the Finance guy at a Porsche, Audi, VW, Mitsubishi store at one time. We would call ourselves the "folks that brought you WWII".

british_rover

I figured it would be as much as the clutch about 20,000.

grandtotal

You're not the only one. My Odyssey had new rotors and pads, front and rear between 32000 and 35000 miles (under warranty). To demonstrate that I'm not hard on a vehicle I still have the original tires at 65000 miles.

psorter

"Hondas rarely need new rotors. "

come on, hondas only weak point is the rotors, I had 3 replaced on my prelude in 5 years ($700 a pop each time), I hear the same story from accord owners, they are undersized and warp very easily, at least on the 90's honda's

isellhondas

I figured that would be your response. It sounds like Honda may have gone through a bad batch or rotors or something. The fact you got 110K from the front pads on your 1991 tells me you are easy on your brakes.

Still, this isn't common. Did you have a new driver like I was when I was 16?

I don't defend Hondas to the death. I only state what I see from my position. VW's are some of the most troublesome cars out there but it sounds like you got a good one. Of course, not much will happen at 30K.

isellhondas

I disagree.

I see all of the used car inspection reports and during the inspection, we check pad thickness and rotors. We often reccommend new pads when they are getting thin but I honestly can't remember the last time one of our used Accords needed rotors.

Hardly a "weak point".

de77

Thats a great story! This is indeed a crazy profession that never ceases to surprise.

psorter

Well but you are talking trade ins and inspections, you won't see it there because people fix warp rotors pretty quickly, it's no fun to drive like that. Maybe if they don't warp they last forever.

The honda dealer said it was common to warp them if drove into a puddle after a long ride (heat up and cooled down too quickly) or the lug nut over tightening.

Is was a weak point in my honda cause I had no other problems in 235K miles, (same clutch, for instance), nor have I every had warped rotors on any other car I've owned.

isellhondas

I don't know what to tell you. Honestly, it's a "problem" I sure haven't seen from my perspective.

robr2

Did you have a new driver like I was when I was 16?

Nope - I was the driver 98% of the time and my wife the other 2%.

Of course, not much will happen at 30K.

As of right now, I've had fewer warranty issues and less expensive service requirements on the VW than on the Accord through the same mileage. I too am suprised. When I bought the VW I braced myself for the typical VW experience but have been pleasantly suprised by it.

jmonroe

I presume techs are trained to use a torque wrench although I always check my wheels with my own prior to leaving ANY shop just in case

Sounds like someone else I know. Years ago we had a discussion at our lunch table (sometimes I think that’s why I went to work everyday) and I mentioned that I ALWAYS check the lug nuts on my wheels to see if they’re too tight or not tight enough after a state inspection and getting tires. Since I do my own brake work I never have to worry about this. Anyway, a couple guys say, “that’s not a bad idea, I’ve had trouble with garages over torquing them when I go in for service. So if there is a problem, I can let them know about it right then and there”. Now, this one guy says, “you got to be kidding me, the place where I go always does it right, so I don’t have to check them”. So one of the guys said, “how do you really know if you don’t check them”. The response was, “I’ve been dealing with them for years and I know they’re good”.

This guy really had a good time with me every day at lunch for about a week asking, “hey, jmonroe did you check you lug nuts today”?

Well, you guessed it, a couple years later one of the guys comes over to me and says, go ask Ed if he’s going to check his lug nuts now? I said, “why, happened” and the answer was his right front tire came off right after he had gotten his car inspected as he was driving down the street just before he was going to get on the interstate. He wasn’t hurt at all but of course the car needed some work.

He was known as “lug nuts” after that. One day our secretary asks one of the guys, “why does everyone call Ed, “lug nuts”? So they told her the story and she said, “I just think he's nuts”. Some of the guys started to call him that but then thought better of it, if you know what I mean.

jmonroe

fezo

I'm with the Honda crowd that has had to replace a few rotors. It's been the only consistent thing from car to car in the way of trouble. I'll still take the overall package on most Hondas.

robr2 - if I thought I could match your performance in the Passat I'd be there in a heartbeat. I still have a very healthy case of VWphobia. Wonderful cars except that each individual one is a crapshoot on reliability.

mikefm58

come on, hondas only weak point is the rotors

My experience has been the exact opposite of yours. I've got a 99 CRV 135K miles, still with the original rotors and have gone through three pad changes, turning the rotors each time. We've also had an 01 Accord and 99 Odyssey, but kept each only about 3 years and still had the original pads and rotors when we traded them.

isellhondas

You know,

Checking lug nuts is one of the things on the list of things I "should" do but never do. I don't check my oil level after an oil change either in fact I MIGHT check my oil once between changes.

And, I've never had any trouble. Just lucky I guess.

qbrozen

I'm the same as you (at least with my newer cars), and you know we aren't alone ... not by a long shot.

But at least we are still better than at least half of car owners out there who don't even know how to open their hood.

isellhondas

Your experience is more the norm.

I ahve never replaced a rotor on any of my Hondas either.

Sometimes, I think that when people have problems themselves they tend to think they are in the majority.

Then they go to the "problems" forums and find a LOT of people with similar problems as everyone chimes in.

fezo

I suspect that some mechanics decide a rotor is just a part of doing the brakes since it's such a nice profit center for them.

There's no question that more recent rotors are being built as disposable parts rather than something that can be turned.

jmonroe

Checking lug nuts is one of the things on the list of things I "should" do but never do. I don't check my oil level after an oil change either in fact I MIGHT check my oil once between changes.

And you come here calling yourself a car guy. I could understand that if you called yourself "isellrefrigerators" and I'd bet that your brand of fridges would be problem-free, huh. :shades:

And, I've never had any trouble. Just lucky I guess.

Yep, luck never hurts until it runs out. Since it's such an easy thing to do, I'll continue to do it till I can't work a lug wrench or open a hood.

jmonroe

greanpea68

Come to find out that he had been shopping the whole day before and no one would give him a payment with out a credit app and a commitment, he then asked why I was able to tell him in 10 minutes what other dealers couldn't tell him after two hours.

I'll never understand that. We are not supposed to give numbers with out a commitment at our store either but I always just tell the desk "yeah he's ready to go" I find a lot of people don't want to admit they want to buy a car. I believe you always have to take a shot with numbers and try to work a deal. So many times I have had people say I am not buying today and 45 minutes later they are in the box. Sometimes the biggest compliment I can get is when some says I can't believe I am buying a car today. It might not be that much gross but I always feel good when someone says that.

isellhondas

Yeah I know. I guess I just try not to sweat all of the small stuff.

And to me, that is small stuff.

jmonroe

I'll never understand that. We are not supposed to give numbers with out a commitment at our store either but I always just tell the desk "yeah he's ready to go" I find a lot of people don't want to admit they want to buy a car.

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

I don’t understand how you can take that position in your biz when you know how customers are when they shop, like not really wanting to commit and needing a little help in making up their minds. I would think the best way to get them off the fence is to give them a price to wet their appetite.

Somebody has to break the ice and you guys are always concerned that when a guy leaves, most of the time he doesn’t come back. So I say take the bull by the horns and try to bring that guy down. Why isn’t that worth a shot?

jmonroe

lrguy44

Man is that ever old school. I'm glad we desk our own deals.

british_rover

Yeah seriously.

The guy that I sold on Tuesday just picked up his new Sport.

This is how the deal went on Tuesday

We are discounting these cars 1,000 dollars so the car is XX,XXX with tax.

Says ok thinks it over.

We go look at the color again that he wants as it is in stock.

Wife and him talk for a few mintues.

They say they want some accesories and I ask which ones.

I throw in one of them and charge them sales cost for the other the deal is done.

Never talked to a manager never even told them I had a deal till after it was all done. I just took a CC Deposit and then faxed them a buyers order the next day.

lrguy44

I have a good LR2 story for you once I see how it all works out. Nice job on the Sport - my month is terrible

british_rover

My month has been pretty bad too. Very weird for October.

oldfarmer50

I didn't know this board had change to the "My Brake Story".

However, in the spirit of the new topic: 1980 Dodge Omni: Original brakes lasted over 90K miles. I was on a trip when they wore out and gouged the rotors real bad on the way home. Evedently they made them thicker back then because my mechanic said "I left the rotors alone, that gouge will act like a cooling slot. Damned if they didn't for years afterwards.

Cost story. Brakes replaced on my Ford F-150. Cost: $80. Take that BMW :P

oldfarmer50

"...We are not supposed to give numbers without a commitment..."

Really? Could you define commitment? Is that where the customer says "I'd like to look at that Altima over there" or is he committed only when the check clears?

I'd hate to think you wouldn't talk price before I signed the contract.

imidazol97

I went back to a different salesman at the dealer where I bought my Oldsmobile. He had been recommended by the previous guy who now worked at his dad's Datsunship. The guy wanted me to sign a contract, blank, before the used car guy would evaluate my Oldsmobile to trade for a new Oldsmobile. Ileft laughing.

The goosehead called me at work 3 days later and asked if I was still interested in buying a car. I said something like "Sure. I just bought one last night." I would have said a lot more but I didn't want to spoil my image with the secretary who could hear the conversation.

nyccarguy

My '01 Prelude Type SH still has the original pads and rotors after 5+ years and 86,000+ Miles (I did have to replace the clutch at 52,000 miles)

BMW swaps out pads and rotors together. Fine with me considering it is on their dime for the first 4 Years/50K miles.

cotmc

Hey, since we're on the brakes topic...

nyccarguy: The '04 X3 I just purchased (with only 26.5K miles) has new pads front and rear, but I believe they did not replace the rear rotors. They may have replaced only the front rotors. We took delivery about two weeks ago, and now my wife is noticing an occasional brake squeek. Should they have replaced the rear rotors, regardless? Or, is rotor replacement up to the discretion of the BMW service team, based on their inspection?

mackabee

That's the same year and type as my middle son has. I don't remember if he's replaced the brakes and rotors yet, it does have around 86k miles on it. Still not fixed from the Sub that backed into him. Body shop called and said the hood is on national back order and won't be avail until the 15th of next month. I'm not too happy as I don't think the car is safe to drive and called the insurance company. I can't believe what they told me. "If the body shop didn't say anything then it should be ok to drive." Right. So my son told them if an accident happened because the hood flipped up he was holding them responsible. :sick:
Mack

mackabee

I figured you had picked up the van already. I believe for a 780 score 60 month term it's 6.74%
Mackabee

nyccarguy

If you read the manual, I believe it says to replace pads and rotors at the same time. Now I think that the dealers have a thing going that they only replace what is needed (just the pads sometimes) rather than pads and rotors once the pads wear too thin. Since BMWNA pays for the service, the dealer bills BMWNA for the pads and rotors and pockets the rest of the money. It is just a conspiracy theory of mine

laurasdada

So some Hondas are mfg. in Ohio, right? And Hondas are sold by some folks here who occasionally tell stories. So, this is a topical post:

And speaking of Ohio, wow the Boys from Boston sure are puttin' a hurt on the Ohio contingents. First Cinci, then Cleveland on the gridiron. Now, another group of Clevelandians, the horsehide types. Far from over, it's just one game...

See y'all tomorrow.

mikefm58

I suspect that some mechanics decide a rotor is just a part of doing the brakes since it's such a nice profit center for them.

Oh man, you've got that right. I had a mechanic that I know who owns a small mom & pop type of a shop do the first two brake jobs and he was the one who recommended turning versus replacing the rotors. But my son has the CRV now at college and had to have the brakes done so I had him take it to a dealer and I had to be a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] to the service advisor before he would agree to turn the rotors instead of replacing them.

roadburner

At 55K my wife's X3 2.5 is still on the original pads and rotors. It was a CPO truck that had 16K on it when we bought it. As for replacing pads AND rotors, the official BMW position is that rotors should be replaced at every pad change because the rotors will wear down past the minimum thickness before the second set of pads are worn out. In practice I've found that you can get away with replacing the rotors at every other pad change- on a purely street driven Bimmer, anyway. And as for the cost of a BMW brake job? Well, I was pressed for time so I had my local independent BMW tech replace the pads and rotors on my E36(at all four corners) as well as flush the brake fluid. We used BMW rotors, Axxis Metal Master pads, and ATE Super Blue Racing DOT4 fluid. The total cost was $627.

isellhondas

Actually, it's your dime. They factor this into the price of the car.

Sounds good though...

tidester

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

The more relevant question is: Which came first, the incentive or the discount? :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

grandtotal

The incentive came first. When that failed, plan B was the discount.

joel0622

I sure would like to get hold of the who ever the first caveman was to discount a wheel. I am sure that for years they sold just fine for 2 pounds of tyrannosaurus meet, then one day some guy at the wheel dealership needed one more wheel to get his 10 wheel bonus and he discounted one to 1 1/2 of tyrannosaurus meat and the sales game has been a mess ever since.

greanpea68

Could you define commitment?

When figures are agreeable and affordable are you ready to take delivery today?

customer: yes

Sales person: Ok intial right here next to your deposit.

That is what a commitment is.

Remember there are variations of this.

greanpea68

I went back to a different salesman at the dealer where I bought my Oldsmobile. He had been recommended by the previous guy who now worked at his dad's Datsunship

What year was that? 1988?

jescue

you mean you require a deposit to work figures? :surprise:

imidazol97

Sounds like someone needs a day off to get their head refreshed. Too many hours in the store!

greanpea68

you mean you require a deposit to work figures?

No when I work numbers I work it with there down payment. I disclose everything first from MSRP to discount then show ACV you come out with a number add tax and fees. Than show what there payment will look like with there down payment. By getting them to intial near there down payment they are giving a small comitment.

jescue

They had me do that when I bought my Altima. I thought it was amusing but went ahead and did it rather than argue about it. I found it funny because I told the salesperson on the test drive I would buy as long as I got a fair price on my trade- he already had a commitment.