Stories from the Sales Frontlines

mackabee

What is there to think over? I ask again. Joel gave the customer what he wanted and more! If it were me in the same scenario I would have asked Joel for a cup of coffee and let's wrap up the paperwork. Get my vehicle ready cause Momma I'm coming home!


Instead he ends up with this:

moparbad

Nice TuRD.

jmonroe

Just to vent, who is the mentally retarded person...

Oops you ain't supposed to say that either. The PC term is "challenged". See how easy it would be if we all used this adjective. There would be know need to remember the words: handicapped, retarded, slow, etc. and the best part is, you don't have to remember how to spel these words.

Life would be so much simpler if you would only get in step with the liberal society, write?

If I'm rong about this I'm sure you'll let me no.

jmonroe

mackabee

Ok, you got the mirrors right although those won't make it to our version since the Scions have the market cornered on that feature. The headlights, front bumper, front fascia are others. In the back the tail lights are different shape, the rear bumper exhausts are rectangular. This is from Australia or New Zealand. This are the only two countries in the world that sell two different versions of the Camry under the same Toyota brand. The Aurion is the Sport/performance trim and it's only available with a V6, the Camry is similar to our version and available with the 4cyl only in Grande- our XLE

Our CE is their Our SE is called Sportivo
The LE is called the Ateva . What's really odd is that the Aurion has the dark wood grain found on our 08 Camry XLE and has the instrument panel from our SE in a version that's sold in the UAE. Really strange. This one is also available in five different trims but all have the V6/6SPD Tranny combo. You can choose from luxury, luxury and technology, luxury and performance, technology and performance, and sports styling and performance. Quite a car actually. I hope they bring this over too. Sportivo
Sportivo ZR6
Camry Grande interior shot, notice the wood and three spoke steering wheel as in XLE and SE US Camry.
Mackabee

mackabee

oHOOHHOO REALLY FUNNY!

You're really articulate.
My compliments to your english teacher.
Mack

oldfarmer50

"...he ends up with this..."

That's disgusting, funny, but disgusting.

mackabee

Oldfarmer, tell me more. What makes you feel this way?
Mackabee

roadburner

Some of you old timers were even alive when they made them.

IIRC, Chrysler built several cars that were evaluated by the general public in the field, as it were. BMW is doing the same thing today with their hydrogen powered 7er.

british_rover

You are correct sir.

http://www.turbinecar.com/

This guys family had one of the publicly available turbine cars for three months. He is writing a book on them.

oldfarmer50

"...Oldfarmer, tell me more. What makes you feel this way?..."

I'm sorry, I'm already in therapy with jmonroe for my problems. :sick:

luvmybuicks

I read these forums every opportunity I get and never posted. You guys are so entertaining and provide a wealth of knowledge; Joel, Mack, British Rover, Greenpea, Carhag, Mr Suzuki...I could go on and on.

Please see the below story about two dealers in the St. Louis area who have a dispute over a strip of land. Note the dealer moving 70 to 80 in the cover of darkness off the strip of land (supposedly by making keys). I hope you enjoy the story. This was in the St. Louis Post on Nov 1.

Two family automobile dynasties are taking legal shots across a 15-foot wide, 800-foot-long strip of land that separates them in St. Peters.

Tom and Lisa Suntrup and Suntrup Buick-Pontiac-GMC Truck Inc. have sued Bommarito Automotive interests for real damages and for punitive damages in excess of $5 million in St. Charles County Circuit Court.

The Suntrups accuse Bommarito Mazda-Cadillac of "under the cover of darkness" moving 70 to 80 of Suntrup Buick's vehicles from the disputed strip back onto their neighbor's main lot.

The lawsuit, filed Oct. 18, says Suntrup suspects that Bommarito copied vehicle identification numbers to make keys "to gain unauthorized access to the vehicles and tortuously remove them from said parking lot and display area."
Oct. 14 is believed to be when the cars were moved.

The two dealerships are located in the 4000 block of North Service Road, and Suntrup says it has been using the strip for 13 years and should gain ownership by adverse possession.

John Bommarito says his Beau & Blake Enterprises owns the property, and he needs the sliver of land for access for construction of an $8 million Volks­wagen dealership. He says if he doesn't complete it by March 31, he'll suffer losses estimated at $4.2 million.

Suntrup said aside from damage in moving the cars, preparation for construction of the new dealership resulted in "destruction of Suntrup Buick's steel guardrail and several of its trees and shrubs and physically ripping up that portion of the parking lot and display that constitutes the now-disputed property."

Circuit Judge Nancy Schnei­der put Car Wars in neutral for a while on Oct. 22, ruling on a temporary restraining order sought by Suntrup.

The judge said the Bommarito interests could not build any "permanent structure upon the portion of real estate in question," but that legal construction could continue. The order is to remain in effect "until further notice of the court."

Messages left with Tom Suntrup, Bommarito and Neal Ewing, the Bommarito Mazda-Cadillac general manager, were not returned.

Paul Simon Jr. represents Suntrup, while Mark Keaney is handling the defendant's side

Luvmybuicks

lrguy44

Oregon boy, if the customer had not committed to the sale by saying if Joel could meet or beat a payment the deal was done, I would agree to you. But if a customer says "If you can I will do it" he becomes the infamous stroke if he does not do it.

fezo

I'm with you there. I never say yes to a "if I can make the deal "X" will you do it" unless I intend to follow through. More often that not I end up with x plus a couple of bucks but never something that wasn't in my ball park.

LuvmyBuicks - keep us posted. This sounds like a good one.

pushingtin

I'm starting to worry that the automotive sales industry is doomed, going the route of everything else that our 'fast food nation' has destroyed. Nobody really cares about service, if they did, would there really be this many restaurants with drive-thrus attached to them? Starbucks Coffee....drive-thrus! When Starbucks burst onto the scene in the early nineties, people bought into the whole cafe experience. A place to read, study, commiserate, etc. But greed and instant gratification has again ruined something else that was supposed to a "special experience." Nobody seems to care about value exceeding price, or that quality service along with knowledgeable salespeople informing them why the product I'm selling offers everything that they need in a car. The bottom line, is all the American consumer seems to dwell on. Which even contradicts their own 'fast food' mantra: because they will shop dealership after dealership seeking the lowest price without thinking one iota of the time that they are wasting (and mine too). They walk in, say we are looking to trade in our 2002 Camry and if you can give us a fair price we would be interested in buying a 2008 model. They have no interest in driving the car, in hearing about the car's features and benefits, its only TELL ME THE LOWEST THAT YOU CAN GO. They shop at Wal-Mart, which means that have no interest in quality service or quality products, its all about fast and cheap. Not even realizing that the fast and cheap way is crippling our nation, costing us American jobs in labor and service, and contributing to the economic boon that China now finds itself in the middle of. America's greed for anything cheap, has the largest communist country on the planet licking its chops for the sweet taste of American capitalism. I'm afraid that we will continue on this path until the very last sector of our economy has exported itself to the lowest bidder in some third world country. Sorry for the rant.

jmonroe

The Suntrups accuse Bommarito Mazda-Cadillac of "under the cover of darkness" moving 70 to 80 of Suntrup Buick's vehicles from the disputed strip back onto their neighbor's main lot.

It sounds like the Buick dealer now has a real overstocked problem not like screamer ads that always complain about this unfortunate situation. From your handle it sounds like you’re a Buick guy so this could be a match made in heaven. If I were you I’d go down there and make that dealer an offer they can’t refuse then come back here and tell how bad you beat him up.

FWIW, the best car I ever owned was an 80’ Buick Park Ave. , kept that car until 1997. The transmission was just starting to slip and when I suggested to Mrs. jmonroe that I should call to see what it would cost to repair it, she nixed the idea by saying, “ah, c’mon, aren’t you tired of looking at that thing yet”? To be honest I wasn’t, the body, interior and everything else with that car was almost perfect especially considering its age. But since it was her car I let it go for $800 to a guy who had a BHPH lot.

He said he’d put about $400 into it then put it on his lot for $2500 and wouldn’t take a penny less than $2000. When I heard that, I turned to Mrs. jmonroe and said, “that ‘thing’, as you call it, is worth more than that damn couch you just bought”.

Let us know how you do with your car buying.

jmonroe

sterlingdog

Back by popular demand (joke), your professor has returned. Though out of town consulting for a week, I've been watching you guys:

1. Those pumpkins by Joel and Snakeweasel were great. I'm proud of Joel for being such a good dad. Snakeweasel is an artist.
2. Jmonroe and oldfarmer need to kiss and make up. You boys know better than that.
3. Enjoyed watching those pick'um up trucks grow larger and larger until my screen ran out of space.
4. Mackabee and moparbad need to be nicer to each other. Mackabee knows that I expect diplomacy from him at all times.
5. Jmonroe, you know better than to use "know" for "no" and "write" for "right". You were just missing me and wanted me to get on you.
6. To our lovely Hosts, let me say that I will still slip in some grammar from time to time. If you remove my posts, I'll have the boys boycott this site for 24 hours. While you are not on commission, I know that "Mr. Edmunds" would not be happy with you.
7. The Nitrogen discussion blew my mind. The next time that I feel short of breath, I'll inhale some from my tires.
8. Yes, I'm old enough to remember the Chrysler Turbine. It was a beautiful automobile. If you're trying to guess my age, go to the picture of the car with the lady wearing gloves and a hat. Now when did a lady dressed so well last appear on your lot to buy a car? Great pictures British-Rover.
9. See you all in the comics----err I mean Edmunds.com of course.

moparbad

Thank you.
Your written visual communication skills are excellent if I may say so.

Mack, what is the added value of a TRD sticker in your opinion?
I can not remember one instance when Toyota Racing Development was a factor in any of my sales.
Of course, a few years have passed and I'm sure those stickers are a great sales tool now.

Removing the TuRD stickers from my 2003 Tacoma was completed the first time I waxed it.

jmonroe

Back by popular demand (joke), your professor has returned.

Oh...geez...Teach is baaack.

I told you 'joel'; he wasn't run over by a bus while cruisin in his convertible. :confuse:

jmonroe

laurasdada

Now, Mack. Don't play too lose with the English language. You may loose your posting privileges...

dino001

That's quite self-righteus to assume you know better what's good for the rest of us, don't you think? Who you think you are to decide what's important to me or millions of other people? You are in service business, which by definition means is to SERVE others' needs. If their needs is lowest price, you serve them with lowest price. If you can't take it, there are dozens of other professions.

And, by the way, I don't actually think people don't want good service. Continuous success of many luxury sales/services places (with high markups) is evidence of big demand for exceptional service. It just may not be a part of the expected package of the product that you sell. When somebody buys a $100K car, they meay be expecting a limo pickup from home to the dealer's and latte at the customer's launch - somebody buying a Toyota just wants a piece of equipment that they pick up and drive. You read or hear all those claims of superservice, but experiece says to translate it into higher price and extra fees on the purchase order without tangible evidence of the service being really better. If Joe's Toyota sells them for 20K and Moe's for 19K, there is no reason to go to Joe's unless he offers something real for that thousand. And a smiley face is simply not enough for many to make that switch. Car is a car - thosands of metal and plastic pieces put together and working or not. Made in the same factory (most likely), shipped on the same ship. So what service? Better car wash? Nicer after shave of the saleman? What expactly is bought for extra $500 or $1000 tapped on the order?

On the other hand, Mack's, Joel's or Craig's examples show that enough lot people would take a word of their friend's family or collegues - so if you treat enough people right (and again - for some people it means you are nice, for others it simply means you give them lower price), you will have more people coming. It takes time and many setbacks, but it's the only way to play the game if you want to charge more than minimum - and not many pass that test.

oldfarmer50

"...jmonroe and oldfarmer need to kiss..."

Sorry, I don't swing that way. Besides, didn't you see the emotorcon? ( :P ) That means it was a joke.

otto8

If anyone is SICK of seeing the pics of those FUGLY toyotas
and wants more info on these neat looking cars:

Lots of info., pics and users stories as well as a old film clip of them being destroyed to comply with goverment tax rules!

9 still exist in either museums or private collections!

mackabee

Some customers like stickers on their trucks others don't. I had a regular customer whom I've sold three Tacomas in the span of seven years. Would keep them for three years and then trade them. Took immaculate care of them so he was always upside on the trade and had some equity so I could move him up to a nicer truck and keep around the same payments. Too bad he got a promotion and moved to DC. Anyway, he didn't like the TRD stickers so we removed them. To him it was the satisfaction that he had the TRD parts but his truck looked different than the others and it made him feel good. The other side of the coin if you get a good salesperson that explains the actual function of the TRD department and what they do to the truck then most will not care about the stickers and in fact will point it out to their friends: "Yep, I got the Off road pack with TRD. My salesman explained to me what it does and which components they are and the stickers look cool IMHO." Happy customer. More referrals.
Mack
"

mackabee

Hey, hey, watch your language. This is a family oriented forum. Those "FUGLY toyotas" as you call them put lots of bread and butter on many Americans table including yours truly.
Mackabee

Here's another fugly one for your enjoyment.!

mackabee

It's been happening for the last couple of years. Seems to me the dealer principals want to turn the business into a Wal-Mart shopping experience. Low prices, low wages, unknowledgeable sales reps, etc but still want the high CSI score. oxymoron. Check out this article from the business weekL:link title

Mackbee

mackabee

I'm not a Pats fan but I think they are going to demolish the Colts.

otto8

Yea right........A WHOLE 41,000 people directly involved in their mfr.!!!!!!!!!!

Forget about Chrysler directly employs 3x that many!
Not to mention Ford and GM..............

You should be in the service dept. soothing customers fears
with all the 07 camry issues (Unless the THOUSANDS of complaints on these forums are wrong!).
Not to mention the 07 tundra with the bad camshafts, failing
transmissions, bouncing beds, bending/cracking tailgates,
as well as getting the hammer from Consumer Reports!

mackabee

Yes sir! My apology. We were getting a bit out of hand with you away from the classroom, and with me being a bit of a class clown, well you know what can happen. Sorry for the run on sentence. Good to have you back!
Mackabee
PS current score: Chemo 1, Victor 1

sterlingdog

Sorry about that. I didn't notice the emotorcon. Wish I knew how to do those. I should have known you were actually a nicer person than that.

jlawrence01

Nobody really cares about service, if they did

Or maybe they are not GETTING decent service at the local dealerships. A few months back, I took possession of three new Chrysler Aspens that had not been properly prepared for delivery.

If you know what you want, why not go for price? Personally, I would prefer to go into WalMart for a tube of Crest for $2.50 rather than pay $3.79 at the local Jewel supermarket. The real question behind the question is what is Jewel doing that justifies the 53% higher price? Not a thing. Their lines are no faster, their toothpaste is HARDER to find.

People MAY pay for better service but they better be able to see a significant difference.

oldfarmer50

"...I should have known you were actually a nicer person than that..."

Don't spread that around. You'll ruin my reputation.

worldly

Re: They shop at Wal-Mart, which means that have no interest in quality service or quality products, its (sic) all about fast and cheap.

Do you actually know anything about Wal-Mart to make this comment on an automotive site? Do you realize there are hundreds of vendors with high-quality products standing in line just to be able to sell their product at Wal-Mart? Is the Sanyo TV or HP printer I purchased at Wal-Mart of lesser quality than the ones I could have purchased at your favorite department store at a much higher price?

Please, don't even try to compare the Wal-Mart shopping experience to the scum and scam artists you find at most automobile dealerships. Wal-Mart is far from perfect, but when you are the world's largest retailer ($300 Billion in annual revenue, and moving up), you are doing something right.

No.....I don't work for Wal-Mart, and, yes, I'm in the process of purchasing a new vehicle, and the experience, so far, has been defined by dealership deception, lies, and attempts to overcharge.

otto8

mackabee

It's a whole lot more than 41,000. Look it up. I regurgitated the so called "Camry issues" on the Camry thread if you care to read it. Also the broken camshafts that were outsourced from a well know American truck manufacturer which shall remain nameless due to some of them post here and I don't want to offend anyone. Failing transmissions on the 07 Tundra? that's a new one on me. and so are the bending/cracking/tailgates. Beds are supposed to have some bounce due the the springs. I also adressed the Consumer reports "hammer"

Otto, before I post anything here I make sure that I have my facts in order and not just do a verbal vomit excercise And when I'm wrong, I'm the first to admit it. Enjoy the game. Seems like the Patsies are laying down on this one. I smell a FIX.

otto8

mackabee

Ok, it looks to me like this was either damage done while shipping, loading or offloading off the car carrier. I see a dealer ad tag on the back. Looks like someone borrowed it for the weekend to do some home project and overloaded it.
Mackabee

otto8

And LOTS for failure pictures !


Plenty of transmission failure woe posts also!

mackabee

What do you mean? I wasn't loosing it in case I was lost? :confuse: Or was their a Ford in there future? Or maybe I ain't doin' the maintanance (most mispelled word in the world!) on my "yota" I have to trade it in on a (GASP!) Ford! (Gets off the soapbox) Time for another anti-nausea med.
:shades:

otto8

otto8

32 pages about tailgate failure: http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/115701-tundra-tailgate-failures-i-a- m-club/

mackabee

Well jeez! what do you expect when you load 2200 pounds of payload in a truck that's designed to carry 1580 and 1680 for 4x4 and 4x2 DUH!

oldfarmer50

I've never seen a tailgate split like that before. Usually they crack in the middle length wise.

imidazol97

mackabee

People just want to be treated with dignity and respect. That's it. It's not rocket science. A friend of mine at a competitor dealer put it this way. "Selling cars is easy. All you have to do is say "Yes sir, yes maa'm." Smile and listen to what they tell you. Sure we still get the customers that were hammered by the last salesperson they bought their car from so naturally they have their guard up. And who can blame them? Heck, I remember when I bought my first new Toyota. 1981 Celica ST handshaker, am/fm radio, no cassette, no ac. $7229.00 MSRP. Price paid: $7229.00 MSRP. Trade in $200.00 for an old pos that I would have to get under every once in a while to re-attach the started since the bolt was stripped. Try doing that at 5am in the morning to go to your place of duty while in the Nav. So anyway, I got my car at 21% interest. No previous credit, FOMOCO actually did the financing since they had a Ford store also with my Toyota dealer. Three months later I refinanced through my credit union at a lower 12% which back then was pretty good. That following xmas I walked into a Target store in San Diego Ca right across from the Sports Arena. There was a bin with overstocked books and I just happened to pick up Remar Sutton's "Never get taken again, The insider's guide to buying your next new or used car." Best DOLLAR I've ever spent!! I got home and read the book cover to cover. It has a story line and a carachter which later one of my managers named me. (Killer Monsoon). I looked at my documents and looked at the info on the book and came to the conclusion I was clubbed like a baby seal and more! That was the only time it happened. And you know in a way I'm glad it did because I got an education and learned my lesson well. From then on every single car that I've bought I've negotiated a fair deal for me and the salesperson. Even private transactions have gone rather well. If you get a chance pick up the book and you can see how the inside of the dealership works. It's now in it's revised edition with internet and stuff but if you can get your hands on the original it's well worth a read.\ \
Mackabee

sterlingdog

You're right Mackebee. Most people leave out the "e" in the middle.

mackabee

don't look like the juggernaut they've been in their first 7 games. :confuse:
Mackabee

mackabee

Yes they do! Maintenance. Heck this was the first word I learned in the Navy. "come on junior, we're going to do some maintenance in the heads." What's a head? The restrooms, latrines, we called them heads because in the old wooden ships the crapper was at the head of the ship. And it was it is called crapper because it's inventor was John Crapper. Just a little trivia while I wait for my team to hand the Beagles their butts in a plate.

sterlingdog

I noticed that you are fairly new to this site, and I want to share something with you. I felt the same way you do when I started my car buying experience this past summer. It went from bad to a really terrible buying experience which I won't rehash here again out of respect for these guys. I had heard of Edmunds.com and wound up here with the salesmen after I had done some car research on the main site. I vented here and the salesmen calmed me down and gave advice. Through their posts to others, I began to learn more information---as well as learning that there are car salesmen and then there are good car salesmen. To make a long story short, I finally found a dealership where the sales manager, F&I guy, service manager, etc. treated me nicely and fairly. I would buy a car from any of these guys on this site. Even when they go short on patience, you can tell that they are passionate about what they do---and they do care. Hang in there. There IS a place where you can have a good experience, but you must do your homework and be patient until you find it. BTW, I have to buy my groceries at Wal-Mart so that I can afford my cars.

sterlingdog

So you know about John Crapper, too. Reminds me of the Earl of Sandwich who loved to play cards so much that he wouldn't go to the dinner table. His wife ordered the servants to take him meat between two pieces of toasted bread. That's my trivia while I wait for the movie "Hunt for Red October " to resume.

cdnpinhead

The AGT1500 turbine engine powers this vehicle.

You're welcome.