Stories from the Sales Frontlines

british_rover

Ahh see well your minis are at least reasonable for the price of the cars you sell. For years our minis were 75 DOLLARS on new cars and 200 dollars on used cars or service loaners. About 18 months ago we had our new car minis bumped up to 150 dollars. The thing is because our packs are so huge you can hit a mini and still have 3,000 dollars of gross in the vehicle. I just did the math and depending on the vehicle there can be up to 3,700 dollars of gross in the car and it is still a mini for us.

We are trying to get them to either increase the new car minis to something more reasonable 250-300 or decrease the pack by a percent so you don't hit a mini with so much gross left in the car.

sterlingdog

You have to admit that he is so passionate about his product. I've never seen anyone who defends their product with such vigor. For his efforts, they need to make him National Toyota Salesman of the Year. You know that you just can't win an argument with him---even when you have all of the facts and figures. He's just a hopeless case.

jescue

We are lucky- no pack on new cars.

lrguy44

I still can't believe your pack. I won't tell you what we would have made on a $3700 gross.

epiney

So you really get paid on net, not gross. Sounds like the percentage should be increased.

british_rover

We are paid on payable gross which is gross profit minus any pack minus some other BS.

Basically they have determined they only want to pay us XXX average per car and have structured the pay plan to hit that average. That average is nearly 200 dollars below the average paid by the other Rover dealers in our market and volume group. When we tried to argue that fact it was pointed out that we make significantly more commission per car then the other salespeople at other dealerships in the company and of discussion, case closed, we will not revisit this.

That was six months ago and now after six months of pressure they are possibly changing their tune.

jmonroe

That was six months ago and now after six months of pressure they are possibly changing their tune.

Since you brought it up, I hope you don't mind my asking; what pressure have you imposed on them?

I hope you make out. I'm a firm believer that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease".

jmonroe

obyone

QDR?

2007 Camry Motor Trends Car of the Year

Oh what a feeling...

Personal apologies to Mack...I'm not a Toyota basher but just couldn't resist

epiney

We are paid on payable gross which is gross profit minus any pack minus some other BS

I would call that net or something closer to net than gross. Your management is screwing around with you.

lrguy44

It is called payable gross because no G&A or other fixed or operating costs are deducted. The easy formula is selling - cost - pack = payable gross.

imidazol97

I've got to get down to Georgetown for the Camry/Avalon plant tour. I want to see the whole plant come to a stop for a couple hours while they track down the cause of a flaw they find at one of the 10 correction stations.

>Toyota plants have ten service bays where they inspect any quality issues and correct them before any more are produced.

They may inspect cars and find flaws (although most people say Toyota products have NO flaws ).

>Our competitors simply either finish the line with the faults in place and proceed to heap hundreds of vehicles in about as many service bays,

Hundreds of service bays? Hmmm. I didn't see those at the Moraine Truck plant last winter--but who am I to know.

>or roll the line out to the dealerships and issue re-call after re-call.

Didn't Toyota have huge recalls the last year? How 'bout the transmission/engine/software problem in the Toyota Camry and ES? Is that what you mean about pushing them out rather than fixing? How 'bout CR's nonrecommendation? Let's get real. Most cars are good on quality these days and very close on reliability.

Advertisements are a little hard to take in a discussion forum. :sick: We'll have to give the Ford Taurus and GM products equal time now.

psorter

"Toyota plants have ten service bays where they inspect any quality issues and correct them before any more are produced."

that's great, but the system collapses when they start claiming quality issues are really "features" (aka the transmission problem)

mackabee

Yeah? Go drive a 4 or V6 SE Camry then come back and tell me about it!
:shades:

mackabee

That's old news that I addressed in the Camry forums. Consumer reports surveys early buyers of cars. As I said before there was a problem with early production V6 Camry. And I mean early production. A very small percentage had a ring problem on the transmission and that was fixed on the affected vehicles and corrected on subsequent models. The other issue is the six speed intelligent transmission. That was a software problem that also was corrected and it actually first surfaced with the 5speed tranny in the Avalon. I can guarantee you won't see the same issues when they canvass 08 model owners or later 07 models.

mackabee

Hey! Don't get me started on Chrysler!
Mackabee

mcdawgg

Don't forget to read Toyota's response to the CR article. You know that with Toyota's money tree (more like a forest of money trees!) and their demonstrated past ability to be #1 in reliability that they will regain their lead.

Mack, I am covering your back while you are hopefully getting one over the curb and giving us a good story.
Toyota Responds :shades:

mackabee

As an American I would love nothing better than to see GM, Ford, Chrysler back on top and ruling the world like we used to. The reality is something else. In an effort to please the stockholders they lost track of the most important person. You, the customer.

Remember the 80's? Shoddy workmanship, paint peeling off, literally. Not to mention planned obsolescense . Now I know why I have customers coming back to trade after three years. They did the same with the domestics because the warranty expired.

:shades:

imidazol97

Problems per 100 and reliability have improved greatly and as even CR and as JDPowers points out the differences between cars is small. Differences between dealers, in my opinion, is great; that's why I bought my last several cars from the same dealer. But that dealer has changed as the next generation of owners has taken over with their Wright State business degrees and auto marketing training. They're not the kind who deliver a car to the customer after an accident not go to the customer's funeral after an unfortunate accident.

My point of my post was the hyperbole in the great emphasis on quality at each and every plant. I want to see Georgetown stopping the line for hours to fix that one minor quirk and see all those people standing around. I did see a portion of the line stop at Moraine Truck Plant and start again after a few minutes. I have no idea what the problem was and the tour guide didn't mention it. I think that's a good sign.

Again it was the hyperbole. For all cars, as Ford says, "Quality Is Job 1."

greanpea68

A guy comes in around 6 o'clock. Makes what appears to be a low ball offer on a car /truck but when you really look at the numbers, you can see that you'll break even, even if you figure he won't go for any packages in the F&I office; do you make the deal?

Yes..........

We have already established that dealers will loose money. So why not.

You do have to feel the guy out to see if he is playing a card.

gogiboy

"We kept all of their deposits but they were on credit cards so I am sure they just disputed the charges with their CC company."

Rover--

Can the buyer actually get the charges reversed? They did sign something when they placed a deposit, right? I would think that they couldn't dispute the charge because your dealership delivered what was requested--unless it arrived later than agreed upon or was damaged. If the buyer's financial circumstances changed during the interim at least that would be a legitimate excuse--not that you'd have to honor it. Of course if they filed Chapter 11 or 13 there might be no deposit to collect.

I'm sure you were pretty irate...and rightly so. I know that isell talks a lot about peculiar special orders where the dealership ends up stuck with some God awful color combination with accessories that no one wants. Ahh, the buying public.

Gogiboy

british_rover

I would rather not get into details but constantly complaining every time the owner stepped into the building was one tactic used.

Example; "Man I sure loved that 200 dollar commission on the 97,000 dollar Range Rover with 4,500 dollars of front end gross in it." :mad: I am not even counting the back end gross or business builder.

greanpea68

But I'm just surprised at some of the senseless bashing you do sometimes. If you think 'yotas are that great, you shouldn't need to put down other products to prove it. FYI, a salesperson who criticizes another product rather than simply talking up their own is a big turnoff for me when shopping. I will typically walk away from those people.

Qbrozen,

These third party comparisons are what they are. Third party. when people look at Altimas and ask this question. I ask them which one do you like better. Because that is what it really comes down to. Yes I know the altima got clobbered on the comparo. Just my opinion on the comparo.

Now as for Mack... I have noticed he has been a little edgy lately and snapping at people the past couple of weeks. Now that is not how he ussualy acys or treats people. But with what he has been going through the past couple of weeks I think we can cut him a little slack.

GP

greanpea68

Are any / most of you paid a salary along with your commission? We are straight commission with a $240 / week draw.

Tin,

Do you have to pay the draw back the next week if you take one?

Or is it $240 plus your commissions?

GP

british_rover

They all signed purchase orders but I am sure with enough complaining they could get the insurance company to back them up over us. I don't know for sure if the charges were every reversed as all of that is handled in another office and I never asked.

roadburner

There is only a handful of cars having sequential transmissions: BMW M3/M5/M6, Audi A3 and TT, VW GTI/GLI, perhaps some exotics I'm not aware of.

I know that Ferrari and Maserati have sequential gearboxes on several of their cars. The new M3 does not, although I hear that there is one in the pipeline. The Mitsu EVO X has a sequential unit standard in the top-shelf MR model, and Subaru is supposedly working on one for the WRX STi.

british_rover

The Maser Cambiocorsa SMG is not so great. It might be based on the Ferrari Super Fast F1 SMG but the software isn't nearly as smart. I have driven both and the F1 SMG is a much, much better shifting trans.

wlbrown9

Sorry...the new Sequoia reminds me of the Durango/Aspen...turn the grill upside down and it is a dead ringer for one of those.

obyone

Kaizen eh?

Seems for some its not soon enough.....

Former Camry owner

obyone

These third party comparisons are what they are. Third party. when people look at Altimas and ask this question. I ask them which one do you like better. Because that is what it really comes down to. Yes I know the altima got clobbered on the comparo. Just my opinion on the comparo

Forgetting for a moment that you sell Nissans. Would you go out and buy a Camry or 4x4 Tundra after reading the results of CR not to mention the posts going on here at Edmunds on the problems related to the 2007 Camry?

Just curious...

jipster

The Camry still rides and handles like a ten year old Buick

I have a 9 year old Buick and would consider that a compliment. But, I can buy a Buick that has better style, reliability and comfort for $5k less than comparable Toyota Camry (pre-owned).

epiney

The easy formula is selling - cost - pack = payable gross

What is pack supposed to cover?

epiney

They all signed purchase orders but I am sure with enough complaining they could get the insurance company to back them up over us. I don't know for sure if the charges were every reversed as all of that is handled in another office and I never asked.

Doesn't this depend on whether or not the sale agreements state if the deposits are refundable? Don't most states consumer protection laws make deposits refundable unless noted in the contract?

mackabee

I'm at home with my buddy "the chemo pump" . I did get a call from one of our service writers telling me the wheels I ordered from Tire rack for a Camry I sold monday came in but were the wrong size.!

So I get on the phone with Tire Rack and my namesake Victor picks up so I leave him a message then I transfer to customer service. A nice lady by the name of Teresa asks me for a PO number or invoice number which I don't have. She then asks for our dealer code which I don't have either and give her to official name of the company and direct line. She finds it and tells me the correct size was shipped and they double box the wheels to prevent damage so the outer box says 17. She asks me to open one of the boxes and look at the wheel itself. I tell her I'm not at the store but since my customer dropped off the car this morning I want to handle it immediately. I give her the name of the service writer and I tell her I will also call them to tell them to check the wheel.

Meantime my buddy Vic calls me and tells me the same thing about the packaging and to check the inner box. I thank him for calling me back and tell him I've been a regular customer since 97 and I trust them wholeheartedly.

I call the service writer and she's on the phone with Tire Rack and she tells me what they told me so she goes and checks the box and opens it. Gets back on the phone and I tell her everything's ok and the TPMS sensors will fit the wheels also.

Now that's customer service. All this will be transparent to the customer so when he picks up his Camry later today he'll be a happy camper. God I love my job!
Mackabee
:shades:

P.S. I almost forgot. The sales manager that worked the deal with me on monday calls me up an hour later and asks me about the wheel situation. I tell him "Don't worry. I took care of it. See you on Saturday."

jipster

I've never seen anyone who defends their product with such vigor.

I have. Back in his prime isellhondas would make mac look like a giant cuddley pussycat. He had great passion for his Honda products and would fight tooth and nail. He doesn't like to scrap as much anymore though. I believe he said it was like banging your head up against a wall. :sick:

But, passion, brainwashed, bias ... call it what you will, both are still moving a lot of aluminum.

epiney

Would you go out and buy a Camry or 4x4 Tundra after reading the results of CR not to mention the posts going on here at Edmunds on the problems related to the 2007 Camry?

Me probably not. For sure less likely than before those reports. In spit of what Mack says I still think the Accord is just as good as a Camry. For a truck I would stick with Ford and GM until Toyota proved itself some more.

That being said, the rating for the Lexus GS in CR holds no water with me. How can the elctronics and audio system in the AWD drive version be so much less reliable than the RWD version when they share the same components?

epiney

Now as for Mack... I have noticed he has been a little edgy lately and snapping at people the past couple of weeks. Now that is not how he ussualy acys or treats people. But with what he has been going through the past couple of weeks I think we can cut him a little slack.

I would agree with that... Get well soon so I don't bad picking on you. :shades:

british_rover

Our purchase agreements say that deposits are non-refundable but in practice we typically refund them if people back out.

The situations where someone makes us go through the whole song and dance and then doesn't even show up for delivery and won't return our calls are the times when we will not refund deposits.

mackabee

You remember those days! You've been around for a while then. I remember I'd get in some scraps with Craig. We became good buddies after that. I hope I can make it out to Seattle some day to go have lunch with him. One of my life long dreams have been to go to Japan. I just love the culture and their people. Maybe I'll do it next year after my treatments. Anyone have any idea what a round trip would cost to Toyota City?
Mack
:shades:

jmonroe

Tha Camry still rides and handles like a ten year old Buick!

WARNING: I know most of you car guys are going to gag if you read this…so scroll now.

Watch it ! The best riding car I ever had was an 80’ Park Ave and I had it until 97’. I’ve already told that story.

Of course I never tried to do any 90 degree turns going 30 MPH. Heck, I don’t think I could keep that thing on my side of the road going 7 MPH under that condition. Now, get on the straight away or the interstate and it was great.

Both of my sons, who are now adults, to this day say, “man, did that car ride nice”. Not that they would want it for anything other than interstate riding but I would.

The closest I ever came to a ride like that, was this past summer when I went to Florida for vacation and had an 07’ Grand Marquis rental. Makes me want to go on another vacation.

jmonroe

mackabee

Thanks GP. I do apologize for my last weeks posts. I've noticed that when it's a few days before I have to go get my chemo I start getting on edge. I don't mean to offend anyone so please forgive me if I've been a little testy lately.
I got my haircut since it was falling off and now that it's short it seems to have stopped falling off. We'll see after friday when I'm done with this cycle. My next one is on the 28th-30th and then I will have PET scan which stands for Possitive Emission Tomography. It's a CT scan but more advanced. I get injected with a radioactive solution and wait 90 minutes, go pee, and then I go through the CT scan tube. The way it works is the solution "lights up" the tumors. So you could say I do glow in the dark
They then compare those scans to the one I had in September to see if the tumors are shrinking and that gives them an idea of how the chemo is working.

I've finally come to the realization that I'm not going to be around much longer AND I'm at peace with myself but I'm not going to sit in a corner and be miserable. As I told my doctor yesterday, I've known about the 5 stages of dying which I read about when I lost my mother to cancer too.
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

I added a sixth step:
6 HOPE.

The rest is up to the big Cowboy fan in the sky God.
Mackabee
:shades:

jipster

Anyone have any idea what a round trip would cost to Toyota City?

My brother is flying to China in a couple weeks, with a stop over in Japan, and he is paying $597. It's part of a group package though.

jmonroe

I've finally come to the realization that I'm not going to be around much longer AND I'm at peace with myself

Hey friend...I've already told you, 'you aren't going anywhere until we're through with you' and I haven't even begun yet. Wait till I do some research on all those Toyota problems. It will take you at least 10 years to dodge those bullets and I know the other guys are loading up as I speak.

Hang in there.

jmonroe

fezo

"Watch it ! The best riding car I ever had was an 80’ Park Ave and I had it until 97’. I’ve already told that story."

Are you lemko posting under a different name?

fezo

Yeah, around $600 to China sounds right. That's about what I paid for airfare to go get daughter #4 over there. Newark, NJ to Hong Kong non-stop. Longest day of my life!

jmonroe

Are you lemko posting under a different name?

Nope. It's just lil ole me.

The truth hurts, sometimes.

jmonroe

epiney

Watch it ! The best riding car I ever had was an 80’ Park Ave and I had it until 97’. I’ve already told that story.


Eh? My parents had a 79 LeSabre Limited, the poor cousin to the Park Avenue. It had bright red velour seats Was a very good car.

If you like that ride and the Grand Marquis, you should get yourself a Caddy DTS. I have had a couple of rides in airport limo DTS's and I do think the ride is better than the more popular Town Car.

greanpea68

Just curious...

Maybe if I got put together...... :P

Point taken... But why would someone come to look at a vehicle if they weren't interested to begin with????? :surprise:

GP

chikoo

Wow!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=123049

Consumer Reports praised Ford for advances in reliability, noting that the 2007 Ford Fusion and 2007 Mercury Milan are among "the most reliable cars."

Kudos to the Mazda team for developing the platform so well on the Mazda6.

isellhondas

I have a Buick too!

It's a 1989 Le Sabre T-Type that I bought off the showroom floor 19 years ago.

It has the sport suspension too and it floats like a Camry down the road!

If you want another Buick you should think about a used one. They depreciate like a ROCK in their first couple of years and you'll be able to REALLY save money!

isellhondas

But, how can they measure relaibility on cars that are a year or less old??

Put 150,000 miles on them and test them again!!