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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Conventional wasn't working so I had to try out the new weapons to make sure they worked. Just like I did in the navy.
I hope eprom sold lots of cars today. Me, I'm enjoying my weekend with my grandson and the last thing on my mind is selling cars. Took him out to ride his bicycle (with training wheels) around his neighborhood. Kids do say and do the darnest things. I asked him how he was going to stop the bike on a downward incline and he sticks both his legs out and plants both feet on the ground.
The only one I have any respect for and admire is K.C. Nix. He does a lot of training videos for Toyota USA and also training sessions throughout the country. If any Toyota sales persons are lurking please post your experiences with K.C. He actually makes these sessions entertaining, exciting, and makes you want to go see him again as he teaches several different topics. I missed him earlier this month up in Richmond as I had a scan that day. He's got a few more coming later this month and I hope to go see him.
:shades:
:shades:
I believe that is called something like curb stoning and in some states is illegal.
Is that when some dude shows up on Monday....Has interviews Monand - Tue... Has car sales training Wed., Thurs., and Friday???
Than starts selling cars?...
Have you seen that guy?
GP
I remember once a guy traded a new vette and got title and a check for $25K for a Corolla. Somehow that didn't sound like a good deal to me but whatever made him happy.
Just wondering if you've had anyone trading more than one vehicle on a purchase?
My point is every car on every dealers lot is "pre owned", Someone had to own it first like the manufacturer then the dealer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Many a year (decade?) ago I was in sales and I had a fellow sales person who was really good at sales who at the time was thinking about going into sales training. His rational for doing that was better hours and that do be so good in sales he had to do some things he wasn't to thrilled with.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You may have something there.
My image of "curb stoning" is where a dealer has a real beast and parks it in his cousins driveway and pretends it's a private sale. Here in NY that is illegal and I remember some dealer locally getting into hot water doing that with his relatives.
The CraigsList thing may bet the hi-tech version of that. I wonder though how they would pull it off if, when you go to buy the car, it is sitting on the dealers lot.
That reminds me of another variation I've seen on CraigsList. They post a photo of the car sitting in a nice residential driveway but the car is listed "by dealer" with the car lot as the location. A quick look would make you think it was a private sale.
I guess the thing that puzzles me is why would a dealer conceal his identity. Here in NY you by law get a minimum 30 day warranty from a dealer. Not so with a private seller. What's the advantage to the dealer to hide that fact?
If my $1200 beater blows up one week after purchase it would be nice to have some recourse.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
But I see the more common definition is the dealers pretending to be individual sellers or having individuals do the sales process.
In this area we have a Trading Post newpaperlike mag that has all kinds of products in it. The auto section is now useless because almost all of the listings are dealers, sometimes thinly veiled with just their phone number.
I haven't check Craigslist for Dayton recently, but it was mishmash a few months ago. The newspaper classified ads are a mix of dealer ads and individuals.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Another reason the law was passed was to discourage sales people from buying cars from their own stores and turning them over in the street. That's a conflict of interest since now the salesperson is competing against his own dealership.
My store's policy is that employees can only purchase two vehicles per year and they must not resell them until after one year of ownership. I don't know how they keep track since there's one guy there that routinely buys and sells more than two every year.
You can get around the law by applying for a dealer's license. Here in Va I believe if you sell five or more cars per year you have to have one.
:shades:
Thanks for getting back with an explanation...a good one at that.
In a related matter to sales frontlines;
One of our employees at work, a single Mom with 3 kids, took her 2000 PT Cruiser in for another repair. Every few months it needs $1000 or $1500 for something. My theory is when you spend over $1000 twice in a row it is time to trade in, for a new car if you can swing it, or a 2 or 3 year old used car minimum.
So, somehow her Chrysler dealer said they couldn't fix the brakes and tires because the wheels were damaged, and new wheels would be $800 EACH!
She would have done it if we hadn't got on the phone and told them that for $3200...that was way more than the car was worth....and it isn't like a new engine that would add a little more life to the car. We talked them into putting regular wheels on the car (I think the originals are aluminum) which were $80 each.
She cried when she saw her car...when she went to pick it up it had ugly black wheels on her red PT. She got some phony discs for $40 and it doesn't look too bad now, but $320 was better than $3200.
I think the big 3 are so deperate for some kind of business, they had to try to sell her $3200 worth of wheels. I am trying to convince her to get a Matrix or something more reliable (she needs extra room) at the first sign of another repair...or even now while her car is still running.
Do you think she can trust this dealer ever again? And the Big 3 wonder why people aren't buying from them any more? :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Ended up with a very nice young sales guy. Friendly, low key, knowledgeable. Everything you would want. Not at all pushy.
Checked out the unit in the showroom, then he offered a test drive (actually 2, in a V6 and a 4 cyl). No hard sell at all (although they had next to nothing in stock to sell yet!).
At the end, I didn't even have to go in to "meet the salesmanager" or anything. He had my contact info (previous customer and shopper at the store, so I am sure I was in the system).
They aren't supposed to start getting stocked up on units until probably next month, and I told him I wouldn't know for sure for a few weeks exactly what my needs would be (as I am starting a new job tomorrow with a much longer and nastier commute, hence the desire to change cars).
Any way, I told the dude that if I wanted to look again (I was also considering a 3 tht they had), or if I was ready to start talking Turkey, I would look him up, and in this case, based on his performance, I meant it!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Do you think she can trust this dealer ever again? And the Big 3 wonder why people aren't buying from them any more?
Are you trying to that this only happens at Big 3 stores?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I had a similar experience once when they told me of all the work they would have to do when I brought my car in for a simple brake job. IIRC they wanted to almost rebuild my front end. I took it to my regular mechanic who told me the only issue I had was my worn brakes.
To keep this on a sales frontline theme several years ago we wanted to get a new car (wife was into her SUV stage at the time) we were looking at a SUV and they took our wagon out for the appraisal. they came back and told us that they couldn't give us much for the car because the transmission was about to fail. Of course now its almost 80K miles later and still waiting for it to fail.
Maybe I should go back to that dealership and find the guy who appraised it and ask him when should I expect tranny failure.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
For sure not- it is not only the Big 3 who are guilty...this type of thing goes on at almost every dealer I suppose, unfortunately. But, I tend to think....and I could be wrong.......the more desperate the dealership is, the more likely they will be tempted to rip you off. Conversely, and it could be my imagination, but I think the more successful the dealership is, then they might have got that way by being more honest.
Once I was looking for a Sunbird.....and the ad said cars would be sold at invoice prices. The owner took me out for a test ride and he was sweating like a pig the whole time. At the end of the ride, I thought his price was high. I went to another dealer and got the car for a lot less. 3 weeks later the first dealer went into bankrupcy.....now I know why he was sweating. The point is, people do get desparate especially when they are hurting.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
During my absence, I see that you covered a wide range of topics: Wal-Mart, Target, something called "curbing", something called "cuddle", pluperfect subjunctive, something called "english", some run-on sentences, sentence fragments, and the usual "creative" spelling. I also noticed a few new faces, and there was a post or two regarding the purchase of automobiles.
To our new posters, I say welcome. You have found a unique place to visit. All opinions and perspectives are cordially invited to land here. Some landings and take-offs can be rather bumpy at times, but the overall journey will be enjoyable for you.
Within the next day or two, I will be addressing some of your previous topics. The usual fatherly advice will be given in a kind and loving fashion. If you don't take the advice, then father becomes stern. :P
Richard
No I think you have that confused with "cow tipping" which refers to individuals turning over cows. It's a much bigger problem out here in the sticks.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yikes! Why were there wheels like that on a PT Cruiser? My "sporty" car has alloy wheels and even at the dealer's excessive prices they are only half that price.
That said, most dealers suggest replacement on any part that shows any wear at all. It may be a way to make money but it also may be a liability issue. If they put your old busted rims back on your Pt Cruiser and 5000 miles from now you vibrate into an accident, they don't want you coming back and suing them for not suggesting you replace them.
I'm always impressed by my long time independent mechanic who will say things like "Yea, there was a piece hanging down but you don't need it so we took the torch and cut it off".
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Cutting corners to save customers money usually backfires.
Whether buying a car, an appliance, a big screen TV, an expensive piece of jewelry, or any big ticket item, I tend to keep going back to the same stores, the same sales people, who have treated me well....and/or gone above and beyond the "norm" when it comes to customer service with me.
Just guessing, but I'd imagine it's a lot less stressful. For someone who likes to travel around and meet people it would be a pretty good job. If they've got enough stashed away from their days as a GM the salary cut wouldn't matter that much. Plus. I imagine they are making decent money training.
At least a dozen times
GP
That is a big thing.... no weekends as a a trainer....
I must admit I have applied for that position
But domrtimes you have to out wiegh life vs. career
GP
We call that curbing cars here......
Yes it is illegal :sick:
GP
Exactly what I am talking about...
Oh by the way.....
What a day...
Been deep sea fishing since 7:30 am.... actually left at 7:30 dropped forst line at 10am...
Oblivious right now to everything that is going on....
Sunburnt like a Maine Lobster.....
Tomorrow is going to be rough :sick:
GP
I was talking about shops trying to save customers money by cutting corners.
Years ago, I was a manager for a huge welll known retailer that operated a VERY busy auto center.
As an example, I had a young, broke mother of three kids limp in with a leaking water pump. She was almost in tears because her husband had left her and she had very little money.
We strongly reccommended changing the belts and hoses while we were "in there". This is normal procedure. she almost begged me to figure out a way to hold costs down.
I told her that we could forgo the belts and hoses andf change only the water pump and that is what we did.
On the work order, we even wrote down that we had reccommended these parts be replaced.
Well, a month later, on the freeway, her lower radiator hose let go and she managed to cook her engine.
She showed up with her father who demanded we replace the engine at no charge...long story.
We didn't want to go to court so we ended up eating the engine.
I can give you a couple of other examples but I won't.
Favors aren't appreciated for one thing and things like this can be the result. Any shop owner will agree with me on this.
LOL
GP
That's what you got to do to keep customers :surprise: :shades:
GP
Rich.... thank goodness your back.... Please feel free to clean up my posts
Welcome back
GP
For God's sake, help this poor woman find a good independent mechanic. Once the factory warranty has expired, there is no reason to go back to the dealer for service. A competent independent shop can keep her PT Cruiser running for a fraction of what the dealer is charging.
I agree...100%. She has done that a few times and she came out much better, but she took it to the dealer because she happened to be near there. She is the nicest person, but auto mechanics can spot her from a mile away. We are hoping she will find some guy who would like to take on the responsibility of 3 kids and knows something about cars.. She is a fantastic person and very attractive....is there anyone interested. She's in Canada but loves hot weather...like in Florida.
(Just joking - we need her too much at work)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Wouldn't iron supplements be easier?
You'd better watch out. Richard's back!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Thank goodness that sort of thing has never happened at an import dealer.
Howard?
Craig, explain this one to me. This sounds a lot like the timing belt "scam" to me. I call it a scam since every time I have the timing belt changed they "recommend" the water pump be replaced since "we are already in there" even though water pumps are probably one of the more reliable parts in an automobile. It reminds me of my colon surgery, I wasn't awake for it but afterwards my surgeon said: "While we were in there we took a look at your liver also. Nothing abnormal. Your spleen looked ok too. Your stomach looked just a little worned down but we didn't want to take part of it out. You might need it since a foot of your colon is gone."
"
Instead of a guy I think you guys at work should pitch in and buy her a TV and a good reliable, 2-3k dollar beater to get her to work.
A dealer principal is basically the owner of the dealership. If I'm raking in dough like it's going out of style, why in the world would I give that up to fly around the country and "train" a bunch of green peas (no offense to you GP) and a bunch of dinosaurs that don't want to learn anymore? Planes to catch, layovers, staying in hotel rooms, getting hit on by the hotel hookers, etc,..
Speaking of.... I was reminiscing about the first time I went to Cash Blast at Atlantic City. September 1999. I had me a brand new JC Penney Navy blue suit, my first pair (and last) of Johnston&Murphy Italian shoes, a Gucci watch, and Hanes underwear. I must have been wearing more than I made that month.
I am happy just to be going and one of my fellow salespersons was my roomie for that weekend and told me what to watch out for. "There's a lot of hookers that come up here from D.C., PA, NY, etc,. Most of them are college girls trying to make an extra buck to pay for school but there's also house wifes and lots of foreign girls. So be careful." Not that I was going to pick up a hooker, even though this was Jersey and not Vegas. What happens in Jersey doesn't stay in Jersey when you're with a bunch of sales folks.
So we fly out of Norfolk Int'l on Saturday morning, arrive in Philly about 40 minutes later, then take a two hour limo ride to AC. I find that it's tradition and since CAT and our dealers are paying for everything I just go along for the ride. It's also tradition to stop at the nearest liquour store and stock up on beer for the limo ride. By the time we check into our hotel we are half sauced and then we hit the boardwalk. Later that night we go to Angelo's Italian restaurant which is also another tradition. Since we always make reservations we don't have to wait long for a table. The place is always packed and the food is 5 stars! So more beer and wine, food, and we walk back to Bally's. Jimmy takes me on a "tour" of the place and shows me where the main event will be held Sunday evening. I take a sneak peek inside the ballroom and there must be enough tables and chairs for 1500 people. We then go to the entrance and there's a few brand spanking new Toyota's roped off so that no one can touch. Look only. These are yet to be released new models or re-designs so we get a treat along with the folks visiting AC and staying at Bally's.
Later that night after walking dinner off we head to the main bar where I get to meet some of my competition. That particular night we are watching some fight on the tv's around the bar and I look to my right and a pretty Korean lady waves at me and makes a hand sign that she wants a cigarette. Jimmy has a pack and I gesture to her to come on over and get one. She comes over and sits on my right and next thing you know she grabs my hand and puts it between her legs. "God it's hot in here!" she exclaims. I pull my arm back faster than you can say Toyota and say 'Whoa lady! I don't even know you!" and she laughs and asks me if I want to go play blackjack and then we can go to my room. :confuse: I look over to Jimmy and he's laughing his butt off. "I think she's one of the girls you were telling me about." I tell him. "No kidding." he replies. After some small talk the girl leaves and I go back to my beer and watch the rest of the fight.
Two years later there's a newbie in our group and I decide to tell him to be on the lookout for the ladies of the night. They'll be out in force again!
That was a lot of fun and along with all the changes that this business has gone through in the last couple of years, Cash Blast is no more
I noticed that when oldfarmer kidded you about "cuddle", he failed to capitalize the word "English". How many times have I told these guys to do this? Still, none of us are without flaws. We just need reminders now and then.
Don't forget now to use "you're" instead of "your" when you wish to say "you are".
Hope you enjoyed the fishing. Now go and sell lots of cars this week. Your customers are lucky people. You are very good to them.
Richard
So, at 100,000 miles a timing belt job is reccommended.
Everything has to come apart to do this. The belts (with 100,000 miles on them) have to come apart and the water pump is exposed and very easy to change at that point.
This is a water pump that isn't leaking but a water pump that is seven years old with 100,000 miles on it. No extra labor to replace it at this point, so what do you do?
Water pumps will fail at some point. Do you take a chance and hope it's going to continue to hold up or do you simply change it while it's exposed.
If it decides to give up the ghost six months later, the whole thing has to come apart again. At 100.00 plus an hour for labor, I know I wouldn't want to take that chance.
It's not a scam at all and we offer our customers a choice.
It is because you are such a good accountant that I want you to spell words correctly. It enhances the perspective that this accountant is very intelligent.
Host is correct. If you saw one of my spreadsheets, you would flunk me. :P
Richard
Duke and others should note, however, that the pluperfect subjunctive, also called past perfect subjunctive, has to use the verb "had" from the verb form "to have" along with the verb's past participle. Example: If I "had known" that Toyota was a better car, I would have purchased it. Example #2: If I "had seen" the BMW first, I would have purchased it.
The purpose of the pluperfect subjunctive is to suggest something in the past that may not actually be in the past. It also suggests a fact that may not really be factual---as in Duke's post. While it is a good way to clarify a thought, I'm afraid that its use is fading away in modern English.
W. Somerset Maugham, the English playwright and novelist, stated that "The subjunctive mood is in its death throes, and the best thing to do is to put it out of its misery as soon as possible."
Posters here may not realize how well the subjunctive mood fits what we say on this forum. How many times each day do we hear, "If I had known....I could have worked a better deal."? This is certainly the intent of the pluperfect subjunctive.
My congratulations to Duke and others who played with the subjunctive mood in my absence, as it related to cars of course.
Richard
In your example, you had a lady with no funds trying to bandaid a motor (fuel pump). Who was in the wrong? The ladies Father for insisting on a new motor when his daughter wouldn't do the recommended service that cause the issue? Or, your shop for not pressing the issue that your repairs didn't cause the engine seizure?
I guess you could say the customer was in the wrong for not taking your advice. But, who knows? The belts could have lasted another 10K miles. They didn't. No way of knowing that, really. You and I know that the odds of belts failing with 100K miles on them wouldn't be in favor of the belts. But, you just don't really know.
I don't know that it's a "favor", per se that you didn't replace the belts. But, what do you do if the customer refuses your advice? Do you turn down the work?
Same in car sales, I would imagine. Do you recommend that the potential buyer shops their trade-in, as you're nowhere near what they think it's worth? That might be considered a "favor". Or, do you try to "do the deal" while they've got their butts sitting at your negotiation table?
I think I mentioned this story a while ago. Last year about this time, my son's Hyundai needed brakes. He had hit the "audible" squeal of worn pads. He probably let it go a little longer than he should have. So, I pull one of the wheels off and see he's got some pad left, but not much. I know the rotors are going to have to be turned. I tell him to go to a couple of shops to get an estimate. Most shops offer "free estimates".
First place he goes to is a chain (Monro). In big block letters on their window, they advertise "free estimates". My son calls me from the shop and tells me the service manager won't take his car off the rack until they perform the work required. I ask what the estimate is, and it comes back somewhere around $1,200 (IIRC). I tell him that's way, way to high, and to take it somewhere else. Well, the Munro guy gets on the phone with me and tells me the Hyundai also needs a new timing belt (we'd just replaced it within 5,000 miles of the visit) and a tune up (had that done at the same time as the belt replacement). He had a few other things that needed to be done that I thought was BS, too. He wouldn't take the car off the rack stating that it was "unsafe" to drive.
While my son doesn't know much about car maintenance, I do. Long and short of the story, I actually had to call the police to have the Monro place give the car back to my son.
There are too many unscrupulous mechanics out there (how about the lawsuit against the transmission chain several years ago for charging for work that didn't need to be done?) to not be leery of what they diagnose.