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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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gg wrote: "Too bad. Looked bad but ran like a scalded dog".
Reminded me of the vagaries and colorful expressions of our youth. Our expression went , "like a scalded [non-permissible content removed] ape" must be regional variation.
I think I'm sophisticated, cause I'm I'm living my life like a good homosapien.
But on to car topic, right idea GM, a day late no doubt but 45 mpg will get sales.
GM to make a small car with $500 million
LORDSTOWN, Ohio - General Motors Corp. said Thursday it will invest more than $500 million in the U.S. to build a new compact car that will compete in an era of high gasoline prices.
Company Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner announced the size of the investment Thursday at the Lordstown factory near Cleveland. The sprawling complex now makes the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5 small cars.
GM announced in June that the Lordstown factory would be retooled to make the new Chevrolet Cruze compact.
The $500 million investment includes $350 million in Lordstown. The company also will build 1-liter to 1.4-liter four-cylinder gasoline engines for the Cruze at a new factory to be built in Flint, Michigan.
The Cruze will be launched in Europe and Asia next year. It will come to the U.S. in second half of 2010.
The new car is expected to get around 45 miles per gallon (5.2 liters per 100 kilometers) on the highway. The most efficient 2009 Cobalt or G5 with a manual transmission gets up to 37 mpg (6.3 liters per 100 kms), GM says.
"Our goal is for the Chevrolet Cruze to lead in fuel economy in this very competitive car segment," Wagoner said in a statement.
The investment in Lordstown, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) southeast of Cleveland, is good news for a region hit hard by the demise of the U.S. steel industry.
GM already is adding a third shift at the Lordstown complex to keep up with heavy demand for Cobalts.
Cobalt sales were up 16.4 percent through the first seven months of the year, while G5 sales were down about 1 percent.
Chevrolet North America Vice President Ed Peper said in a statement that GM can't make Cobalts quickly enough.
"Our dealers are asking for many more Cobalts than we can build," he said.
The Cobalt's success prompted GM to add the third production shift and 1,400 jobs — the largest hiring since Lordstown opened in 1966. The complex will employ about 4,300 hourly workers and roughly 300 salaried workers.
GM has released little information on the new Cruze, which officially will debut in October at the Paris Motor Show.
It will be about 15 feet (4.5-meter) long, almost identical to the Cobalt. But GM said the Cruze will make better use of its interior space, offering more room for five passengers and cargo.
Whether or when the Cobalt and G5 might cease production has yet to be determined, GM has said.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
"If the sounds of my failures are heard hitting the Earth, let it be known that it was an unsuccessful leap for a star." Thomas Wolfe '
"Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing ". The bard, himself.
So true I find myself nodding daily in agreement.
Yet one more, What a giftie God would gie us to see ourselves as others see us.
The world might need a few more poets, Sir richard Lord Guardian. Post on.
Lower oil prices may save the intermediate three, largely it depends on how dumb consumers are. Short to intermediate term, the oil market always goes in extremes. Longer term, Chin-India, needs to build a few more cities, and that needs copper, oil and lumber. Short term, commodities suck. longer term, still not enough refineries, lots of oil, just not those dirty nasty refineries. Except in Houston. Cough.
Not in my back yard.. "
And my all time favorite: "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig enjoys it!" and my second favorite: "No matter where you go, I am there."
:shades:
Mack....that's my favorite, too. First heard it from my late Father when I was bemoaning to him what a pain my soon to be "ex" was being during our break-up.
I use it all the time, now.
Hard to tell what's going on with oil, but I tend to agree with you. Plenty of oil. Just got to refine it. Still, I think it's generally headed downward....quite a bit in the coming year. if I made my living as a commodity trader, that'd be my bet. Some are trying to prop it up, especially those funds and individuals who came late to the party and came late to that party earlier this spring/summer.
Demand is still dropping. People aren't buying 15 MPG vehicles. They aren't driving as much, no matter where you are in the world.
I guess the real question in car sales, how will that affect sales of your big iron? In your case Tundras, Sequoias, Highlanders, etc? Will people forget that quickly?
Just going by what I see at the local stores, dealers are tripping all over the trucks and SUVs they have on their lots.
Are you seeing any uptick at all when it comes to sales of your trucks, minivans and SUVs? Around here, a gal of gas has dropped 30% off their highs. Every time a station around here tries to bump up the price, they look empty and quickly drop back down.
People will forget. They forgot the gas lines of the '70's and went on to enjoy their big cars. They forgot the Great Depression and went on spending, rather than saving. They forgot Vietnam and went on to Iraq. History does repeat itself because we forget too quickly. "Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing?"
Richard
I was too young to be drafted, but I saw summer camp councellors receive their numbers (on our recent trip to DC, visited the Viet Nam Memorial: Stunning). I have not forgotten the name of my Y camp councellor from oh so long ago who received his # that summer. Thankfully, his name was not in the index/on the wall.... I remember watching Colin Powell do his duty and present the "evidence" of WMD to the UN. I'm no expert, but OJ was acquitted with much stronger evidence against him than Powell was forced to try and sell. But, I thought, my government must have/know more than they're revealing. The USA doesn't invade countries/start wars, just defense, right?
And as far as the Depression? Well, that continues for me since the Pats finished out their "imperfect" season...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
If Craigslist is any indication the market for big cars is still in the toilet.
I like to surf my local list and get a laugh when I see a busted-up Neon with 150K miles for $8000. The Toyotas and Hondas are even worse.
Today there was a Buick Park Avenue Ultra supercharged 3.8L which was being offered for $1000 under Edmunds TMV. That would be about $1500 under KBB private party.
I think any big car is still a tough sell.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Agreed, not too many out there walking up and ordering a new Expedition these days.
Now, in Canada the big 3 are giving up on leasing, even though about 40% of the cars sold now are leases. They claim it works out better for the consumer blah blah. Now they will give you 72 months or more to pay the car off. Not too many will still be running after 72 months so the car will quit before it is paid off....sounds like another mortgage scam. The fact is those big SUVs and trucks are coming back in off lease and aren't worth what they thought they would be.
Anything like that in the U.S. of A?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes..... :sick:
Sad but true.
Anything is, not what most expected.... :lemon:
GP
Anything like that in the U.S. of A?
Chrysler ended its lease program everywhere, not just in Canada. However, a customer can still lease one through a third party.
As far as the big vehicles not selling, it may be true for SUVs and trucks but the 16 mpg SRT Challengers are selling for more than MSRP right now.
Richard
Right!
The version I was familiar with is this one:
"Don't argue with an idiot. They will only drag you down to their level, and beat you by experience."
You would think the car manufacturers would know better but, nope, lets set the residuals way too high so we can attract customers with low lease payments.
I guess they figured that they would worry about that problem three years down the road?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Guy #1: "How long is it going to take you to finish this?"
Guy #2: "How long is a piece of string?" Guy #1 walks away without saying anything else.
Depends whether you are pushing it, or pulling it...
So, I went into the new car section, and saw the guy who sold me my car (he was *good*). He listens to me, then informs me he is the Subaru Sales Manager. He assigns me to a kid, and tells me the kid will take good care of me. This kid did not seem too interested in me. All of my questions were answered with one word answers....then during a test drive, instead of talking to me, he was checking his cell phone, responding to messages, etc. Basically, ignoring my questions. Ok, it is true that I was really only looking today, but I had bought a car there in the past, and had all maintenance and repairs done at the dealer (including todays $1100 bill: 30K service, replacement key fob & programming, tie rod, and 4 wheel alignment)
Do I let the sales manager know? or blow it off? (I should mention that after the drive, I decided that I prefer the Civic Si over the WRX)
If you're not buying from them because of that lame salesperson, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and mention it to the sales manager. Since you're more interested in the Civic, I personally, wouldn't bother.
BTW, I heard that the WRX is a beast both performance and price wise going upwards of $37K.
When I am in the customer mode, I hate a smart a-- service person. Guy #1 should have responded, "The longer the string, the longer it will take me to write the check." Actually, I would prefer a response such as, "long enough to wrap around your neck if you're not finished by closing time."
A few years ago, my wife and I were at a house closing as sellers. I asked the attorney a question about an item on the closing statement. The buyer's agent had the nerve to look at me and say, "What do you care? You're only paying a 5% commission." I turned to her and, without batting an eye, I said, "That's right, and you're worth about 1% of that on a good day." My wife grabbed my arm, and the seller's agent covered her mouth to conceal her grin.
Richard
Some people just beg to be put in their place and I think that would have been incentive enough.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Have you read the Edmunds article comparing the WRX, Mitsu Lancer Raliart and the Mazda Speed3? I think the Honda Civic is a bit underpowered next to them.
"...tells me the kid will take care of me..."
Salesman speak for: "I'm too important to be bothered with anybody who's not buying TODAY".
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
ROFLMAO.... :P
GP
If you want to see an interesting comparison between;
2006 Honda Civic Si vs. Volkswagen Jetta GLI vs. Subaru WRX vs. Chevrolet Cobalt SS
Go to Automobile Mag: link title (I don't know how to change the link into a name - I am computer challenged
Here is the summary;
All four cars are great performers, more than willing to mix it up at high speeds, low speeds, and anything in between, and none is likely to disappoint its owner. The WRX's standard all-wheel drive-rare in this price range-and entertaining personality make it a fantastic choice, especially for those in the Snow Belt. The Jetta GLI is the most well-mannered competitor and perfect for the speed freak with a family, offering good rear-seat room and a large trunk. It's safe, too; the GLI matches the Si's six standard air bags and then goes a step further by offering optional rear-seat side bags. And although it felt the least cohesive, the Cobalt SS was the hot rod of our group-expected of a car bearing those storied initials.
The most complete car here, though, is the Honda Civic Si, due to its wonderful manners on both road and test course, its brilliant powertrain, and its tremendous value. Honda has atoned for the last-generation Si, which was unremarkable in nearly every way, and the Si badge is back on top of the hot-compact heap. Look for an Si sliding around a cul-de-sac near you soon.
Well, there it is...a very difficult choice...have fun choosing! After reading the review I would take one of each
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I guess you could talk to the General Manager of the store. I agree with oldfarmer, both of them were at fault. Personally, I'd probably show my dissatisfaction by walking out, and never returning, for any reason, to that store.
You represent the easiest sale they could make......a repeat customer. They blew it.
the years have mellowed me somewhat.
If they're so lackadaisical about their jobs, I don't know that I'd want to give them my business.
A few problems, you might like this car the best and you don't want to try to find a new dealer, especially since this one seems to be pretty good so far - so you might lose the car you want or have to buy it across town when you don't know why you got the kiss off. The manager might not know what is going on with kid yet. I am a little surprised the manager handed you over to the kid (a repeat customer) but he might have had an appointment too (it is very annoying to make an appointment to see a car salesperson and you have to wait for them - especially if it is to finish a cigarette or talk to a buddy out on the sales floor). Guess, you really have to find out a little more information before you walk out. Also, by the way, walking out doesn't solve the problem very well....they still don't know why you left or what they did wrong.
IMHO - If you walk out nothing is solved, and you will have pent up anger and you might take it out on a loved one or the family pet. If you are interested in the car talk to the manager and find out what is going on. If not interested in the car just leave and they can sort out their own problems. If you want to make the dealership a better place and you really care you can explain why you weren't impressed with their staff.....but I don't think it is up to you to report this.
All this brings up a very interesting point for you sales people though. When shopping for my current car almost a year ago we went to see 3 different but comparable cars A, B and C. The sales people at A and B were much better, had a lot more knowledge, were on time for appointments, tried to suit the car to what we were looking for. But, I bought car C because it was the car that suited me the best. I wish I could have bought from the other sales people but the car was the deciding factor. So, can the salesperson make enough difference to get people to buy their car, or does the person really decide what car they will buy, and the salesperson has to persuade the buyer to buy it from them? :confuse: :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
What kind of string?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Salespeople will make enough difference to a buyer who uses their vehicle as an appliance and knows nothing about them. If Joe and Jane Carbuyer are shopping for basic transportation to get them from A to B, and know nothing, nadda, zip, zero about cars, they will go buy from where they're comfortable, respected, and appreciated and where they'll have a pleasant experience.
Just like me.... I know nothing about........... hmmmmm lets see.....plants :surprise: and want to build me a garden.
To me all palnts look the same, and I just want some greenery in my yard. I'll buy from a place that has staff that can assist me in making my garden nice, not from a place that couldn't care less if I buy plastic flowers or pink flamingos for my yard.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I have a certain dealerships that I have a better relationship with than others. I trust them. I believe they're honest and that they actually do value their customers. If something would go awry with one of my favorites, I'm probably more likely to make a point to tell them.
Others? I may shop them, just to make certain my thinking is right about price. Or, to get a general feel of what the market is like on a specific model. I don't buy from them though. Lots of reasons. I believe any store will sell any model for roughly the same price (there are exceptions to this, though). It's how I'm treated that usually makes or breaks a deal, all other things being equal.
It's kind of a circle, though. I keep buying from the same dealers because I've been treated well. They've got a repeat customer and want me to keep coming back. Those that don't treat me well, don't get a 2nd chance.
Regarding the Subie sales manager, the old adage pops to mind...."a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". He's got a prospective customer....a repeat customer, no less, in his showroom interested in a car. What's more important than that, given that his job is to sell cars.
If I were a manager, or a sales person, there's no meeting that's more important than the one I've got with the guy standing in front of me that's interested in my products. Even if I had a meeting with my boss, I'm certain the boss would consider a customer meeting more important than a meeting with him.
A very imortant rule of selling! It is easier to keep a customer coming back and to build on that customer, than it is to try to win over a new customer.
I have a rule about new dealerships, new insurance sales people, new telephone provider, new lawn cutting guys, at work it is cheaper trucking companies, cheaper office suppliers etc. If I listened to everyones spiel about why I would switch to them I would spend half my life filling out forms to save a few dollars here or there.
So, my simple answer is this;
I am very happy with my current provider - you can leave your card and if anything changes I will check with you.
There is only one polite way they can reply if they ever want my business. It is sensible and it stops them in their tracks.
I had a few Jeeps from a fantastic Chrysler Dealer. They were very honest, I could walk in knowing the price was as good as it could get (I saw an incredible ad from a competitor and asked if they could match it and they said we'll do a lot better), always treated with great respect and I wouldn't switch for a few dollars. Unfortunately, things do change and I wanted to move up from the Jeep but if I was buying a Chrysler I would certainly go back.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Never argue with a fool. From a distance people can't tell who is who.
Absolutely.
The thinking of these "execs" is that by the time I have to answer for these decisions, I will have already moved on to another job. Trust me. I have been there.
The new kids on the block have a very bad habit or should I say addiction to text messages? Even while working with customers, they are more interested in responding to the meaningless back and forth of the text messages. I actually have one of my salesgirls on the security video last night wasting time on the text messages while customers are in the store.....She will be taken to task on Monday when she comes in :mad:
Richard
She can, if I was not paying her for that time.....and I would not mind if customers were NOT in the store. But her addiction cost me dearly in sales last night. I would not have known any better if I had not reviewed the video. Might have thought just another slow day.
richard64 wrote :
"
People will forget. They forgot the gas lines of the '70's and went on to enjoy their big cars. They forgot the Great Depression and went on spending, rather than saving. They forgot Vietnam and went on to Iraq. History does repeat itself because we forget too quickly. "Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing?" "
Oh when will they ever learn ? But agreed national memory seems to be about 24-36 months . I may be generous in that estimate. After the initial oil shock of 1974, Sheik Yamani of Saudi fame had the price of oil set at $15/bbl lest we devise alternative energy strategy. He was characterized at that time by the late great Frank Zappa as Sheik Yerbouti, but I digress. We not only forgot the lessons of the '70's but GM went on to purchase a non armored personnel carrier as a division.
gg, Agreed ,yes there is plenty of oil, and not enough refineries , do to niby (yard) and the price direction is down (after huricane season). China, found a huge discovery in their south sea , Brazil recently in their Santos region and Petrobras a huge one offshore. What else would be expected with such insane prices ? And while more oil will be found China and India's demand will increase albeit not enough to equate to 100% increase over a year.
Mack, one more variation on a theme. Never try to teach a pig to sing, it's not only futile but frustrates the pig.
richard64 wrote :
"
People will forget. They forgot the gas lines of the '70's and went on to enjoy their big cars. They forgot the Great Depression and went on spending, rather than saving. They forgot Vietnam and went on to Iraq. History does repeat itself because we forget too quickly. "Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing?" "
Oh when will they ever learn ? But agreed national memory seems to be about 24-36 months . I may be generous in that estimate. After the initial oil shock of 1974, Sheik Yamani of Saudi fame had the price of oil set at $15/bbl lest we devise alternative energy strategy. He was characterized at that time by the late great Frank Zappa as Sheik Yerbouti, but I digress. We not only forgot the lessons of the '70's but GM went on to purchase a non armored personnel carrier as a division.
gg, Agreed ,yes there is plenty of oil, and not enough refineries , do to nimby (yard) and the price direction is down (after huricane season). China, found a huge discovery in their south sea , Brazil recently in their Santos region and Petrobras a huge one offshore. What else would be expected with such insane prices ? And while more oil will be found China and India's demand will increase albeit not enough to equate to 100% increase over a year.
Mack, one more variation on a theme. Never try to teach a pig to sing, it's not only futile but frustrates the pig.
Salesline posts sadly down due to the Olympics,
Record breaking Phelps and Bolt take precedence. Quite rightly so.
Fact is, we've got huge expanses of highways in the U.S. tailormade for those types of vehicles. Manufacturers are just making what, up until this point, Americans wanted to drive.
Then, you've got the oil industry who is doing their darndest to convince us they aren't manipulating prices. Somebody, somewhere was pre-planning this run up. It just happened too quickly.....with prices going up too steeply. They didn't learn their lesson either. Their rally cry in the '70s was "we're running out of oil". Prices went up. There's more oil finds now than there ever were.
Then there's OPEC. I remember them saying a couple of years ago that they didn't want the price per bbl to go above $30 as they feared it would put the world in a recession. They were right, But all the money started flowing in and they kind of forgot about their predictions. After the whole '70s debacle, when people learned that there was indeed plenty of oil and prices crashed. I still remember my late Father reading an article in the WSJ sometime in the '80s that OPEC and the oil companies were crying the blues because the price per bbl was dropping to below $10.
Then you've got the public, who is caught in the middle. Auto manufacturers get caught with the wrong product mix. Green groups protests have backfired. Looks like there will be more drilling. Those in the commodity markets are getting skittish because they're underwater when it comes to all those futures they bought at $150/bbl.
All of this will subside, however. If manufacturers are making any progress at all with fuel cells, plugin hybrids, electric only vehicles (and I believe they are) demand will continue to drop.
Oil independence won't come at the hands of government intervention, but from the marketplace. Any country not embracing new automotive technology, whether it's China, India, whomever, will be left in the automotive wasteland.
My only hope is that there won't be a return to some of the garbage that was foisted on the American public in the '80s. When I think of cars like the Pinto, the Vega, the Citation, any diesel, I shudder.
Toyota has proven that hybrids are viable and can be made at a profit. I'll never drive one. But clearly, plenty of people are. BMW has fuel cell cars on the road being tested. GM is putting a ton of money into the VOLT. I'm rooting for Tesla to make it. They seem close.....real close. If there's an alternate fuel car in my future, it would probably be an electric one.
My hope is that before I take a dirt nap, traditional gas stations will disappear from our landscape.
(sorry hosts.....off topic rant over)
In addition to electric, I think that natural gas could be a viable alternative here in the U.S. There is plenty of it but the problem is fueling stations. Once that is solved we will be good to go. I think Honda is working on very simple fueling stations that we can all have in our garages.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Very few have been sold, mostly in California.
And I bet you didn't talk down to her either, LOL, I know how those discussions can go.
I agree with you the sales person should have excepted your OTD offer... But you state in your post here that you knew what your payments would have been with your OTD offer.... Why didn't you just state your payment where you wanted it to be. Either way they should be breaking the numbers down when they show you the payment...
In other words you should see List, disc, rebate, trade, plus t,t,l.... They can use a average APR and show you a payment....
It is what it is.... I don't know why some salesman and some consumers ( not directed at you... just in general) get so caught up in that part of the game :confuse:
GP
1) you need stitches
2) you become mute
:shades:
At least I'm in a want to buy and not a need to buy situation.
1) you need stitches
2) you become mute
My choice is #2, I would rather avoid stitches.