Stories from the Sales Frontlines

sterlingdog

You are a magician! I don't know how you find them. The Pinkerton Agency needs to hire you. I swear that if that car had 10k miles, I would be leaving for the Alabama line in the morning. Still, 18k miles isn't bad for the price. Besides, I could grind for $1k off.

Wow! I just saw the GM Mexican jumping bean. That was hysterical! Just think. I can get that one for $5k and it only has 80k miles.

Richard

sterlingdog

I won't disappoint you,. I'll hang tough.

Richard

sterlingdog

"...looks to be more of a charcoal grey (Smokeweed) to me."

Remember what we said about colors on the computer monitor. This one probably IS black. Wouldn't that be some wasted trip? Drive 500 miles to find out it was the wrong color. :sick: :mad:

Richard

sterlingdog

Smokestone IS misleading. You're right. It is a mixture of silver and gold. It was the worse color that I had ever seen in my life. It looked as if someone had taken a big piece of tin foil and pi--ed on it. :sick: Me? I thought that it was going to be a tan color.

Richard

sterlingdog

You were right. The very first black one that I should have bought was unsold and had 3,500 miles. The dealer's mother had been driving it around town.

Richard

sterlingdog

"That is why restaurants have menus."

LOL!!! That was great. See, you do understand. Now I don't have to hold you back a year in school.

I'm tempted to get that police car on ebay. Maybe then I would quit getting these damn warnings and speeding tickets in our village. Our four policeman will ticket you 40mph in a 35mph zone. I now know all four of them by name. The other day, one of them just waved me on through. Perhaps I'm getting them trained.

Richard

snakeweasel

I really doubt that anybody buys a car based on what the car company pays their designers and engineers.

I think you hit on something, when I start seriously looking sometime in the next 18 months the first question I will ask the salesperson is how much does the manufacturer pay the designers and engineers. :P

snakeweasel

Try and take some pix of the "Product Specialists," too!

OK but what do I tell the wife if she sees those pics?

snakeweasel

But Frankfurt and Paris are biannual events (I did say the largest annual show).

driver100

There is only one other color that I would consider in the limited list of colors for a GM. I could be satisfied with a white one.

Richard, I was thinking of you today. We drove to Port Charlotte today about 1 hour and a half distance. Saw a lot, I am estimating 50 Mercury GMs or similar. Saw a few white, dark and light blue, silver, sea foam green, but not one in black. I thought, the nicest ones I saw were white, and the nicest white one had the bottom including the bumpers and the rear panel between the back lights was a goldy brown cover. It looked really good. I like the way those cars sit, they are low to the road and look extra wide. Maybe one year we'll stay here all winter and I'll get a beater one to drive around, but I'll get a vinyl roof on mine.

driver100

when I start seriously looking sometime in the next 18 months the first question I will ask the salesperson is how much does the manufacturer pay the designers and engineers.

You don't have to ask. Generally, the more the engineers and designers make, the better the end product will be........that is why you pay more for certain brands.
Who makes more, the guy that designs a Rolex or the guy that designs a Timex?

The truly talented will be designing Mercedes, Audis, Lexus, Infinity, and BMWs. If a guy is good at GM he'll move up to the Cadillac division. Do you think the highest paid designers and engineers are making Cobalts and Calibres? :confuse:

driver100

Try and take some pix of the "Product Specialists," too!
OK but what do I tell the wife if she sees those pics?

You have a bad aim?

mjfloyd1

the worst color, not the worse color!

snakeweasel

You don't have to ask. Generally, the more the engineers and designers make, the better the end product will be........that is why you pay more for certain brands.

So using that logic I can hire a guy right out of college pay him a million dollars a year and s/he will make the best cars in the world.

Fact is "you pay more you get better" is a fallicy. If what you say is true BMW's would go 350K miles before needing any type of repairs.

sterlingdog

Goodness gracious! You caught the English prof napping. I'm moving you to the front of the class.

Richard

driver100

So using that logic I can hire a guy right out of college pay him a million dollars a year and s/he will make the best cars in the world.

It's kind of twisting around what I am saying. The best designers and engineers rise to the top and will command higher salaries. It's like what happens in most business's. The best and brightest will get paid more, and they are the ones working for the "better" car makers

Fact is "you pay more you get better" is a fallicy. If what you say is true BMW's would go 350K miles before needing any type of repairs.

I am not sure how many cars will go 350,000 miles without any repairs, but I think this is a myth perpetuated especially by Hyundai owners that somehow BMWs won't hold up. Maybe makes them feel superior I guess. I see a few classic BMWs around (and they look better than 98% of the new cars on the road) but very few Hundai Ponies around.

This was just the first sight I found.....

just purchased my first bimmer... '93 318i with 180k on the clock. uses absolutely no oil, runs and drives better than any newer car i've ever owned, and it looks great.

Another:100K+ on 93 and 01
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a 93 325i auto at 175K, no problems, engine and drive train are solid. I just replaced the rear shocks. I also run a 2001 325xi with 113K, the most trouble free car I ever owned.

See for yourself;hi mileage bmw

Some might say spending $35,000 to get a BMW is a waste of money. I think it is a bigger waste to spend $20,000 on crap. Not mentioning any makes but my rental Fusion is good basic transportation....very fair value.....is there any enjoyment from driving it......almost none. It was made by a committee that tried to make the best car they could and come in at the lowest possible price. It was made by a committee that tried to make the best car they could and come in at the lowest possible price. That wishy washy steering is really hard to get used to.

sterlingdog

It's funny that you mentioned that white GM with the goldy brown color at the bumper level. I spotted one the other day and had to do a double take. It really gives the white a nice finishing touch, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be neat if the interior was also that contrasting color?

Richard

driver100

Wouldn't it be neat if the interior was also that contrasting color?

Hadn't thought of that...I didn't see the interior because it was passing me while I was driving my Furd ConFusion.

But, yes, that would look really good.

jmonroe

...you absolutely must add the "lowrider/Mexican jumping bean" package.

Am I the first one to notice this about this car?

It’s owner is in Centrailia IL. (maybe that’s in the central part of the state and maybe it ain’t). ‘snake’ lives in IL. And get a load of this, directly from the description write up in that eBay Motors link:

…TYPE IN LOWRIDING AT THE LAKE OR SNEAKYSNAKE081...

Don’t tell me that’s our ‘snake’. Who said this accountant doesn’t have any fun in his life? :confuse:

jmonroe

houdini1

Some might say spending $35,000 to get a BMW is a waste of money. I think it is a bigger waste to spend $20,000 on crap

You and several million upwardly mobile young women in their twenties seem to share that opinion, at least on the sporty 3 series.

cdn_tch

MAN, there is just no hope for you. I’m talking about the PARENT company, not some spin-off rascal.

Awww, there is. I just like to play devils advocate on some things.

Realistically, with cross ownership between companies, employees from several countries designing cars, parts being designed in one country, built in a second and then used to assemble a car in a third, is there really any 1 country car manufacturer (top 10-15 brands, don't want to get into counting specialty/exotics) anymore?

roadburner

I am not sure how many cars will go 350,000 miles without any repairs, but I think this is a myth perpetuated especially by Hyundai owners that somehow BMWs won't hold up. Maybe makes them feel superior I guess. I see a few classic BMWs around (and they look better than 98% of the new cars on the road) but very few Hundai Ponies around.

You mean like my 1975 2002?



I just bought a set of E21 Recaros(with a back seat upholstered to match) off of eBay. I can't wait to get the rest of the interior up to snuff...

jmonroe

Realistically, with cross ownership between companies, employees from several countries designing cars, parts being designed in one country, built in a second and then used to assemble a car in a third…

I believe all of this started by what country is the owner of a given car line. I won’t argue with the above statement. However, when anyone who remotely knows anything about car manufactures knows that GM/Ford/Chrysler are American car companies. Honda/Nissan/Toyota are Japanese car companies. BMW/Mercedes are German car companies and Jaguar/Rover are…damn I don’t really know anymore who lays claim to these guys. :confuse:

That’s all I am trying to say.

I just like to play devils advocate on some things.

NO SH**

jmonroe

traindriver

Don’t tell me that’s our ‘snake’. Who said this accountant doesn’t have any fun in his life?

Ah ha! Now we know what snake does on the weekends....lol
I missed that earlier. snake & IL, hmmm could it be?

driver100

Man I love that car Roadburner. They should use one of those idle GM assembly lines to make classic cars and that one would be great, I like it more than any new cars. I actually saw an AMC Javelin on the road here in Florida and that was a great looking car too, that looks better than most of todays GMs. And I wonder how many 1975 Hyundais are still on the road.

Here's a clip and random about BMWs lasting;

Henri Baccouche asks what mileage should be expected with normal maintainance
on a BMW 6 cyl. I've been building BMW auto engines for 29 years and find
the small sixers capable of 150-200k miles. The Big 6 cyl, 3-3.5 litre can
easily make 250-300k miles if properly cared for.

My wife's '85' 732i reached 350k miles untouched and I was concerned, so
did a quicky tear-down in the car, not pulling the hood, or block. I was
50-100k miles early as it's been on 'Mobil 1' since new with changes at
25-30k miles. (a mechanic's car gets neglected)

My 15 yr old son did the valve job, while I broke the cylinder glaze with
a dingle-berry hone, popped new rings on the pistons and bearings on the
crank. Then Phillip installed the head. This was Xmas '95'. The car now
has 366k miles and going strong as ever. It still has the original rockers
& shafts. I've never seen any other engine in such good shape and it sees
5,000 rpm daily.
Next time you're in the Seattle area, Just try to catch her in traffic.
It's a Hungry looking Euro-seven with BIMMERS for a plate #.

Dan Patzer the CyberWrench from BIMMERS ONLY 206-743-2002

One more thing, I am in no way knocking Hyundai...they are excellent cars and are excellent value. I do think this old red herring about European cars being unreliable is a myth, and is about the same as comparing a new Hyundai to a Pony.

exb0

Driver100, you can try to justify your purchase of BMW all you want, but the fact of the matter is, people buy luxury item for prestige rather than practical reasons. Owning something that most people can’t afford gives people a self esteem boost. Luxury items are all about marketing rather than functional design. This applies to cars, audio/video equipment, watches, furniture and women’s purses.

Is Rolex better than Timex? Rolex looks better, you can brag to your friends about it and they will be envious, but Timex keeps time better. Battery operated quartz movement is the most accurate movement made. My FIL is Rolex trained and certified watch maker. Did you know that there are only three manufacturers of watch movements in the world, and that $10K Rolex uses same movement as $500 Tag Heuer and $800 Omega?

We have furnished our living room and master bedroom with Thomasville made furniture. It looks nice, but it is worst quality furniture that we have ever purchased. Do you think $10K pair of speakers sound ten times better than $1K pair of speaker. They generally do sound better, but 99% of people won’t be able to tell the difference.

Luxury items generally perform a bit better than mass produced items, but you reach the point of diminishing returns really fast.

If you take a $35K Infiniti G37 and compare it to similarly equipped $50K BMW 335; BMW rides and accelerates a bit better, but not $15K worth. Most people won’t be able to appreciate those subtle differences, and they will enjoy more reliable car with better resale value. At one point I cross shopped MB 320 and Acura TL, TL handles just as good, has better acceleration, reliability and resale value for $20K less, I would have chosen TL over MB even if they were priced the same. Yes, I don’t have same snub appeal, but I don’t need it, my self esteem is just fine,

driver100

Yes, I don’t have same snub appeal, but I don’t need it, my self esteem is just fine,
I could argue that is not the case if you have to justify that a 35K Infinity will be the same as a 50k BMW. There is a lot of truth in what you did say, but it isn't completely true.

I know about the watches, I used to sell them when I managed a jewellery store for a short time in my illustrious career. What you are paying for in a Rolex is the one piece scooped out shell, better materials like real gold, dials can get very expensive - real sea shells etc. for a wrist band that will actually feel comfortable, and for a top notch DESIGNER who makes a unique and beautiful design, that no Timex can match. I would not buy a Rolex myself, I prefer to spend money on other things, but if that watch is important to someone because it makes them feel good, they appreciate fine craftsmanship, they think a watch is important in their life, they have to impress people to make a sale, than I am not going to say that everyone who buys a Rolex is an insecure, superficial, moron.

I was looking at LCD TVs. They showed me a 720 resolution and a 1080. Most people will take the 1080 because it doesn't cost much more and it sounds better. For most people they will never notice the difference though, once they get it home. Does that make someone a snob because they want the 1080 model?

I am driving my rental Ford Fusion. Good basic car. Everything is tasteful, but minimal. Door panels are bare necessities, steering is barely adequate, ergonomics are just passable, brakes take twice as long to stop. Would I pay double for something that gives me driving satisfaction and extra safety in the way it performs....yes, and it has nothing to do with prestige or feeling insecure.

In fact it is a hinderance. People like you try to cut me off or won't let me into traffic (ha ha, that part was just a joke)

graphicguy

Another good friend rang my doorbell last night. Since I'm single, I think all of my married friends look at my home as something of a "guys hangout" when they need it to be.

Anyway, this guy owns a conveyor belt manufacturing company. Not real exciting, but certainly profitable and consistent over the years.

He's been an Audi guy as long as I've known him (15 years). Like clockwork, he leases a new Audi every 3 years....not the cheap ones, either. His last one was an A8. Really nice car.

Anyway, his lease was up. He's leased from the same dealership for all of his Audis. This time around he said they weren't willing to "cut him a deal" on a new one. His lease on a new A8 was going to be $200/mo higher than his last one.

Now, I don't know if there's a big difference between the one he turned in ('05? "06?), and a new '09, but that's a steep increase. Maybe the residuals have dropped on Audis. Maybe the MSRP went up a bunch. What I do know is that he was asking for similar terms as he had with all his previous Audi leases.

He offered $50 more per month on a new lease, but couldn't stomach $200 more per month. He admittedly is not a good negotiator. That shouldn't matter as he's a VERY repeat customer, though.

Unhappy, he started looking around at other cars in the same price range.....BMWs & Cadillacs,

So, what did he show me last night as his new sled? (J, this is for you)....a Hyundai Genesis. His lease was a few hundred LESS than the A8 he turned in.

And, I gotta admit, it's a very, very nice car. He let me drive it a bit and I have to admit, it would be tough to justify spending more for the Audi (or BMW, or Cadillac).

I was impressed.

Richard....as a side note, the Genesis was all black.....very, very sharp.

dino001

Fact is different people have different sensitivities. I would buy BMW, but would not touch MB or Lexus for the same price (or for less), so it's not about prestige - it's about "driving experience" to me. I cringe every time I see prices of furniture, but some electronics doesn't really give me a pause. I do not own a single piece of a jewelry, but I spent over two grand on a plasma TV. I would love to have some of those good speakers and receivers they have on display (and will probably buy something at certain point), but I sit on a futon that some of my friends make fun of. I wear hum-drum clothes from Sears and Penney's collections on 50% sales, but my shoes have to pass certain fit test, which usually results in their price tag in proximity of $70.

Everybody's value perception is different. Some go for shiny objects, others for gages, buttons and dials. Everybody has something they are willing to spend more than "the average" customer and at the same time simply cannot understand why others would "throw-away" money on things that cost twice or ten times than perfectly working item they have.

driver100

"lowrider/Mexican jumping bean" package.

I meant to go back and look at "Richard's new ride", and I finally did.
That's priceless, and it is in Richards 3rd favorite color.
The white looks really good actually.

I guess since the jelly bean feature doesn't add to the value of the car, it is just added for "prestige". :P

isellhondas

" The Genesis was all black"

It probably still is!

Audi probably wised up and made their residuals more realistic after getting burned so many times.

Hyundai may learn the same lesson if the resale values of Korean cars don't improve quickly.

I will admit, Hyundai has come a long way.

snakeweasel

It's kind of twisting around what I am saying.

Not really, I do admit that I am exaggerating to make a point though.

The best designers and engineers rise to the top and will command higher salaries. It's like what happens in most business's. The best and brightest will get paid more, and they are the ones working for the "better" car makers

Many times rising to the top is more based on experience and, at times, who you know. There is also something known as the Peter Principle that states that anyone will eventually rise to the level of their incompetence.

As one who has spent many years in the business world I can attest to the fact that in many cases underlings can run circles around their bosses in their field.

I am not sure how many cars will go 350,000 miles without any repairs, but I think this is a myth perpetuated especially by Hyundai owners that somehow BMWs won't hold up.

As far as I know none will, but as for you saying its a myth, thats nowhere near the truth. My point is my family owns many Hyundais (Me, my wife, the daughter and my niece) and none of these have had any repairs (three over 100K miles one with maybe 50K), and most Hyundai owners I talk to have the same experience, then a car costing almost twice as much should at least have the same reliability. However most BMW and MB owners that I have talked to have had some issues well before the 100K mark.

Some might say spending $35,000 to get a BMW is a waste of money. I think it is a bigger waste to spend $20,000 on crap.

Very few cars out there are crap so the odds of spending $20K on crap is slim. So is a 35K BMW better than a $20K car? Yes it is, is it worth $15K more, I say no as far as I am concerned the ride and handling isn't $15K better. Many agree with me, but some want a name on their car and others could car less.

snakeweasel

Sorry not me, most of my weekends are spent racking up miles on two wheels and no engine.

dino001

Yes it is, is it worth $15K more, I say no as far as I am concerned the ride and handling isn't $15K better. Many agree with me, but some want a name on their car and others could car less

Others are simply willing to pay 15K for that improvement even if majority votes it's not worth $15K. It's not really about the badge for them, it's their tolerance for price difference on marginal improvement that is higher than others - doesn't mean it's infinite, just higher.

sterlingdog

I am so relieved that it isn't you in that tape. I always picture you in a crisp, white Polo shirt with a Brooks Brothers silk tie. My image would have been shattered. :P

Richard

snakeweasel

Yes some will be willing to spend the extra funds to get minimal improvement, but not many. Most that do are doing so for the badge. I can usually find out within 30-45 minutes of talking to someone if they own a luxury brand, but I usually can't if they don't. It seems that most that are willing to spend that extra money want you to know that they do.

snakeweasel

At work it is a polo shirt, but either green, tan or dark red with our insignia on it as required by my employer.

Also who in the world wears a tie with a polo shirt? Or were you thinking a dress shirt?

jmonroe

So, what did he show me last night as his new sled? (J, this is for you)....a Hyundai Genesis.

You just had to throw that in, huh? And I’ll bet it’s the V8 with all the horses, right?. Just like the one my son feels I should buy so he can take it on an extended drive.

Speaking of an extended drive, Cincy ain’t all that far from the Burgh and if you could talk your neighbor into letting me take it on an extended test drive (no, not to the Burgh and back ) just a nice, by myself, extended test drive. I’m afraid to ask the local guy for one because I’d probably fall for any deal he’d throw at me and everyone here knows that will lead to another MAJOR purchase I’m just not ready for.

On second thought, don’t bother asking, I’d just rush right home and buy one.

Thanks anyway,

jmonroe

otto8

Local judge orders asset seizure of Dealmakers Chevy store:
http://www.newzjunky.com/court/090210dm_gmac.htm
http://www.newzjunky.com/court/090210gilbert.htm

On top of their Ford store being shut down, bank loans not being paid
off on trade ins and defaults on payments to Chrysler and banks by their
Dodge/Jeep stores.....................

Funny that I note that their Ford dealer in suburban Syracuse NY that
was shut down by Ford several months back STILL has almost 200 new
Ford cars and trucks on the lot. All the used cars have been gone for quite
a while tho. I noted someone snowplowing the lot last week with their lot
truck even tho the store has been closed for months.

cdn_tch

Honda/Nissan/Toyota are Japanese car companies.

Is Nissan still Japanese? I thought I read somewhere that Renault bought them and the Renault CEO is Nissan's CEO as well. :confuse: Can someone here clarify?

chikoo

>We are indeed, all different, with different likes and dislikes. This is why restaurants have menus.

and the truly upscale ones like the Ritz Carlton have only 3 entrees on the Menu.
Eeny, meeny, miny, moe. Pick one and be done.

graphicguy

j.....the Genesis was the one with the V8, with all the trappings (Nav, etc). My friend wouldn't give me exact figures, but he said he got it for less than $40K before TTL.

Pretty slick ride for that kind of money. If I were in the market, I'd look very seriously at one (based on the great service my son has received from his '03 Elantra).

isell....you bring up a good point about residuals. I'm not well versed on Audi supported residuals, but I do know BMW used to "pad" theirs because much of their customer base relied on leases.

That brings up another question, though. We all know that Hyundais, regardless of how far they've come, don't exactly have great resale values. But, for something like a Genesis, I wonder if that will change? Genesis purportedly competes with the higher end BMWs, Audis and MBs (my opinion is they succeeded). But, at a cost that's well under what those marks sell for.

In 3 year's time, is there going to be a flood of lease turn in Genesises (Geni?) on the market that Hyundai is going to take a bath on because of less than stellar resale?

Or, will the Genesis help bring up the entire Hyundai brand with regards to resale?

laurasdada

"OK but what do I tell the wife if she sees those pics? "

You don't have to tell her anything. Just give her the diamond bracelet you keep handy just for such occasions!

I'm just curious if my Infiniti friend will be at the Chicago show.

boomchek

Nissan and Renault merged and Carlos Ghosn runs both companies iirc

driver100

I noted someone snowplowing the lot last week with their lot
truck even tho the store has been closed for months.

Doubt the snow plow guy is going to get paid.

driver100

is it worth $15K more, I say no as far as I am concerned the ride and handling isn't $15K better. Many agree with me, but some want a name on their car and others could car less.

If you can't appreciate the difference between a $20,000 Furd ConFusion and a BMW 3 Series you are right, don't spend the extra $15000!

If you don't appreciate watching a 50 inch LCD TV and are happy watching a 17 inch black and white good for you.

If your wife or you don't mind washing dishes by hand, then knock yourself out.

If you don't mind living in a one room shack without running water, you have my blessings.

But, don't judge people by what they drive, it's kind of reverse snobbery.
(By the way, I have owned the worst old used cars any person has owned, and most of my new cars weren't that special either. I would have said exactly what you are saying, before I took the test drive and can seriously say there is a difference, and it certainly has nothing to do with the badge)

verdugo

driver,

I don't think snake is saying that you bought a BMW for the badge, but let's be honest, there are plenty of people out there who do. Not all luxury car drivers are snobs, but a large percentage of them are.

boomchek

Sometimes these "snobs" help pay my and your bills because they must have the newest best greatest top fo the line thing out there. It's not necessarily a bad thing either.

lrguy44

I have been involved with high end cars (Audi, Porsche, Land Rover) for many years and all I can say is most of my customers buy for reasons other than snobbery. They can afford and appreciate the unique qualities of a high end product. Slam the door on a European product and compare it to the slam of an Asian car. Spend 12 hours straight in a 7 series and see how much more enjoyable and comfortable it is compared to a Kia. Take a Land Rover over a mountain pass in a snow storm and compare it to an Elantra in the same conditions. Does that make people wrong who drive Toyotas? Heck no - I have a couple of those myself. But is it immoral, wrong, or snobby to buy high end - no as well. It boils down to different strokes for different folks. It doesn't make either way the only correct way.

isellhondas

The best way to buy a Korean car is to find a slightly used one. At the auctions nobody gets excited about them. For the time being anway the Korean stigma remains, big time.

Many car manufacturers have learned painful lessons about residuals. In order to fuel today's sales, they make leases too attractive by placing unrealistic residuals on them

The domestics seem to be the best at this but even Honda has failed to anticipate the market three years down the road. It's a tough call trying to predict the future. If you're too conservative you won't lease many cars!

Heck who would have drempt that gas would be 4.50 a gallon last summer? The people who leased the gas hogs smiled as they handed over their keys!

On the auction block it wasn't uncommon to get a high bid of 6000.00 less than the residual!