Stories from the Sales Frontlines

sterlingdog

Just be sure to keep Chris up North. :shades:

Richard

sterlingdog

I should have known that it couldn't be true. She just baited you the other day. Now see what has happened? You put off the furniture purchase for so long that she has now moved on to bigger things. I learned a long time ago that at times you have to lose a battle in order to win the war. :P

I think that I'll be pulling the trigger Monday---not a GM and not black. It's a crazy world. If I don't pull the trigger Monday, it won't happen for a long time. There will be no more buyer talk from me.

Richard

houdini1

My guess is that you are of the single persuasion, no?

houdini1

I have to side with the Mrs. on this one. Cars have never been a good investment and at least houses used to be.

houdini1

Enjoy the ride snake. Sounds like you got a great deal.

roadburner

My guess is that you are of the single persuasion, no?

Nope, happily married- 23 years as of next month. She knew I was a gearhead from our first date(she even found my first "vintage" BMW) . That said, if I bring another car home I will have to get rid of one of my other four-wheeled projects.

tidester

Never buy new.

If everybody did that then there would no new cars and the price of used cars would be in the stratosphere.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

fezo

The new strategy is for GM to start building used cars. They are what sells.....

driver100

The new strategy is for GM to start building used cars. They are what sells.....

That's not a bad idea. GM could take old Toyotas and Hondas and recycle them....

driver100

Yes Richard, I think your chances are a lot better than mine after what I heard today

There should be a JIp method for negotiating with the wife. Dealing with the car salesman is relatively easy - if you come up with a way to get through this one you will truly be a genius.

driver100

I think that I'll be pulling the trigger Monday---not a GM and not black.

At least tell us what you will be pulling the trigger on. Is it a Sebring convertible?
Ford has the best reliability of the D3. Don't forget to compare to a Mustang first.

jmonroe

JMonroe, right?

Anyway, saw one today in a great color combo. Dark blue, with "saddle" interior (sort of dark taupe/light brown looking). SUper elegant looking.

Another button pusher, huh?

If I ws to get one, that would be the color (or burgandy + saddle).

I like that exterior color too (the official name is Cabernet Red Pearl) with the light interior beige color. That color combo would look perfect in any house.

jmonroe

golic

Wow she is good. She is definitely setting you up for the furniture purchase.

Don't you see it? She is floating the house purchase to get you off your game and now as you work your game plan to get the car AND talk her out of a house she will wait for the right moment to pull the rug out from under you and just ask for furniture.

You will be so happy not to have to move and have a bigger mortgage, you will just give the okay for the furniture purchase - which is what she wants all along. Just remember whatever you think this Genesis is going to cost, double it - because that is how much furniture she is buying.

houdini1

Yes, I understand it the same way. Sort of similar to gap insurance for automobiles. But if that is the case it would look to me like the banks are being made whole by this pmi.

Customer gives house back to bank because value has decreased by 20%, bank sells house at 20% loss, bank collects the difference from pmi. Right?

Then why are the banks needing bailouts, etc.? And why aren't the insurers going broke? And why doesn't the subject even come up in the news and all these talking heads?

There is a part here that I am just not understanding.

snakeweasel

Cars have never been a good investment

Oh yeah? Try living without one.

driver100

There is a part here that I am just not understanding

I am not sure any one understands it. Just a guess, but seems to me AIG is the insurer of most of these loans. That's why they are broke, and that's why the insurer can't pay for the bad loans. That's just a guess, probably the accountants or people who follow business will know.. I have enough trouble trying to keep my own life on course without trying to figure out what these morons have done. It's too bad, the people buy what they can afford, try not to overextend themselves, try to save for the future, are the one's who suffer the most.

snakeweasel

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that PMI covers the difference between your down payment and a 20% down payment. In other words if you buy a $300K house with a $30K down payment PMI covers $30K. So in this example if the bank takes back the house and sells it for say $35K less than what the loan amount is PMI will pay $30K and the bank is left trying to get the additional $5K back from you,

golic

Watch this:

http://vimeo.com/3261363

stickguy

Not with the car. With the furniture.

new cars at least have some benefit (as cars do wear out over time). But good wood furniture? Especially a DR set that gets used 3x a year? no difference.

And if you think cars depreciate, furniture will give you a nosebleed it drops so fast.

So instead of dropping 15K on a new DR set, get it for 3K from someone that bought it new a few years ago!

When we bought our first house and decided to get a set we 1st put down money on new, but it never showed (long story). So instead we found a resale. Local couple downsizing from a big house to a condo. and the DR set wouldn't fit.

So, we bought a teak set (still have it). About 7 years old, and other than a couple of scratches and a little stain on 1 seat, just like new. They paid over 7K at dane decor, and we paid $1,200 for it. And it works just as well as ever, and I certainly can't tell we bought used.

oldfarmer50

"...So, you felt a thrill running up you leg did you?..."

LOL. After riding an Oldsmobile it didn't take much.

oldfarmer50

"...I'd like a new house..."

Oh, that is SOOOOOO funny. It took her a few years but she has now turned the tables on you buddy. I hope you will enjoy working until you're 90 to pay off that new mortgage. At that time she may allow you to buy your 2009 Genesis--of course by then it will be a slightly use car.

These guys never learn. Give 'em the little things they want or you'll end up paying for it big time.

Oldfarmer
Marriage Counselor.

isellhondas

" they still get paid double time"

Have you ever worked as a line tech at a dealership"

Didn't think so.

It's true there are some "gravy" jobs out there but there are a lot of tedious, miserable jobs too where they can't begin to diagnose and fix something under "book" time.

I have a lot of respect for these guys and their jobs are far from easy.

In addition the average tech has at least 40,000 of their own money invested in tools.

As far as shop supply charges. Yes, they are very real. I do think they should simply be built into the hourly rate rather then shown as a seperate charge. Otherwise people feel nickled and dimed.

graphicguy

First, snake congrats on the new ragtop. I do know LSD. I spend a lot of time in Chitown for business. I always stay near the old firehouse. And, in spring/summer months, try to rent a ragtop to take the LSD cruise. One gorgeous way to spend a nice Saturday afternoon....if you're hitting the museums.

I know the sales people here aren't getting the benefit of what profit a dealership really makes.

The way I see it, here are the components that a new car sales person doesn't get paid on.....

-Holdback
-unpublished factory to dealer incentives (smart shoppers already know the published incentives)
-doc fees
-trade-ins
-factory bonus money and incentives reserved for dealership principal's.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in addition to making commissions on gross, the sales people also receive "spiffs" from the factory (depending on model and amount of units/gross sold). Add to that, bonus money paid for attaining a good CSI and for hitting unit/volume targets.

Not saying it's an easy job. And, up until recently, those dealerships made money on new cars. It's also true that dealership's aren't cheap to run. But, those who control costs, while still maintaining good customer service, should have a profitable business model.

Someone mentioned about the early-mid 80s trying to buy an Accord. It was a buyers market. At the time, Toyota and Honda had no competition, especially from the domestics. Both brands had fuel efficient cars, that were high quality, and generally lower MSRPs than the "Big 3" were offering at the time. ADMs were rampant. And, if you didn't want to pay the price, they knew someone else would.

That's not the market right now......not even remotely close.

jmonroe....as expected, I got a call from the Hyundai place about my little test drive of the Genesis. I told them the delta offered on my Tahoe and their car was just too big. They want to negotiate more.....asking if I could get a little closer to their price (my Tahoe + $16K+ check). Told them nicely, "no can do". I told them to call me back when my Tahoe + $10K check would do the trick. Keep in mind, this is on one of their "demo" models.

As most know, I'm not a "grind it out" guy. I don't need to do a deal. Probably shouldn't even entertain the thought of buying a new car. But, they peaked my interest (which is what they're supposed to do). They did their job. They got me into their showroom (albeit with a free tank of gas "bribe").

isellhondas

Well GG,

Contrary to popular belief, we still make money on new cars.

I'm sure some people think that's a terrible thing! :surprise:

deltheking

Here`s a situation my office colleague asked me and I must say I never ever thought about it.
So maybe u guys could help me.

The salesguy just wants to make a deal.He gets his gross or commission on the new car price.He doesn`t get the factory to dealer incentives etc etc ,,atleast thats what I think.

So ,when u go on a test drive with him,,,Is it ethical to ask him-- I will give u a cash offer of say $300 or whatever amount.Can u get me the absolute lowest price on this car and the max amount on my trade?

That way,the salesguy would be concerned about his pay and not how much profit the dealership gets.He would be more interested in the sale as he knows then that u definitely would be buying a car.

And that way,u could avoid all the haggling and the pressure tactics at the dealer.
Assuming,,of course the salesguy is sincere and doesnt try to mess around with both the client and the dealer.
And in this way,, he gets his money with not a lot of time wasted plus the customer is happy.

Your opinion folks!!!!

houdini1

Hmmm....I think you would have to do the normal dance first in order to get their first best price. Then maybe walk. When the salesman called you back you could hit him with your offer privately and see what happens.

Of course the salesperson would probably be risking the loss of his job, not to mention his integrity, over $300. bucks.

jipster

So ,when u go on a test drive with him,,,Is it ethical to ask him-- I will give u a cash offer of say $300 or whatever amount.Can u get me the absolute lowest price on this car and the max amount on my trade?

No, that's not ethical. Probably not a good idea anyway, as how do you know the salesperson will be giving you the absolute lowest price on car and max amount on trade. You could certainly give him the $300 after the sale as a tip... but that would be nuts. Maybe, a $20 gift card to Red Lobster or something.

sterlingdog

Now I know that times are REALLY hard. We are in to bribing the salesmen! :sick:

Richard

deltheking

B`cos,U tell him that if he gets u the price u want without any hassle,,he has a deal right there.Otherwise , u would buy elsewhere.
What does the salesguy have to lose here?He pockets the 300 or whatever amount+his commission+his sales quota.
He cares about his own profit and not the dealer`s profit.
Agreed it`s not ethical but why shouldn`t it work?

And all of this talk goes on on your test drive,and not at the dealership.

driver100

Thanks for the video, it does help. I don't know if it explains why the insurance companies don't pay up.

I get most of my information from Uncle Jay Explains, he makes it so any idiot can understand in just 3 minutes;

Uncle Jay Explains

isellhondas

If a customer ever asked me to do such a thing, I would be done with him.

I can't believe you would even think such a thing! :mad:

explorerx4

we looked at quite a few vehicles at 3 dearlership groups that were closed, being a sunday.
knocked some off the list: escape hybrid, fusion, and lincoln mkx.
still on the list; ford escape, mercury mariner, maybe lincoln mkz.

explorerx4

were were at a dealership that sold porsches.
i saw a porsche cayenne turbo s, so i asked my wife what she thought the sticker on it was. she says 64k. i said you are way off, it's probably 80k.
after looking at it i said add yours and mine then take off 15k. :surprise:

deltheking

Thanks,but no it was not me who got this thought.
One of my co-workers asked at work and I must admit,,like u,, that thought never ever crossed my mind and yes,I was little surprised too.
So, I was curious as to whether this opinion is more common or is it an aberration and the best place to find out--Edmunds boards. :shades:

driver100

If a customer ever asked me to do such a thing, I would be done with him.
I can't believe you would even think such a thing!

What if they offered $400?

Just joking

sterlingdog

Good for you!

Richard

madmanmoo

No, it's not ethical. There was actually a discussion of this awhile back. It isn't a tip.

A "tip" is completely ethical. You appreciate the service that you've received from your salesperson and at the end of the sale, you give him some extra money.

What you are trying to do is garner a better price by paying him upfront. That is definitely a conflict of interest. Additionally, there is no guarantee that it would work. Do a little research and make a fair offer. Save your money for a tip if the salesperson takes care of you. :shades:

jimbres

You've reminded me of a story that my father told me. For more than 3 years during WWII, all car production in the U.S. was halted so that manufacturers could fill military orders. Production resumed as soon as the war ended, but it took a couple of years for supply to catch up with demand.

After Dad got out of the Army, he walked into his local Plymouth dealer with cash in hand, hoping to buy a new coupe. When the salesman explained that he'd have to wait 6 months for delivery - longer if Dad wanted a particular color - Dad took him aside & asked if an injection of cash "under the table" (his words) might not facilitate the transaction. Dad got his new Plymouth coupe 2 weeks later, after meeting the salesman at a diner down the block from the dealership & slipping him $300.

Sticker price for the car was $1600.

lrguy44

Totally concur - a bribe is totally unethical. I once had a customer tip me $250. I had spent alot of time demonstrating and educating and he bought elsewhere because I could not get him the exact car he wanted. I have alot of respect for him.
I never worry about the individual deal - I do what I can to get er done - big gross or small gross. All I worry about is my check at the end of the month.

graphicguy

isell....no doubt in my mind that you're making money on new cars. Down sales still don't mean you have to sell cars at a loss. I've never heard of a business model where every new car is sold at a loss (at least not one that will keep the dealership in business for very long).

But, I also think there are some shifts in the way dealerships are being compensated. I'm seeing more car with added "stuff" (like aftermarket wheels, grills, trim, etc) added to them. Then, there's always the ever popular mop & glo, aftermarket alarms, etc).

I'm also thinking that there are some factory incentives that are more prevalent (and unpublished). There's just no way that new cars are selling for what I'm seeing in the car ads these days. Lower than invoice less published incentives...even less holdback.

That's a recipe for failure. Money has to be coming from somewhere on a new car sale. All of them can't be sold for a loss.

Maybe that's not the case for Honda. Maybe there aren't any hidden incentives on them. But, sales being down 30%+ across the board on new cars, somebody somewhere has to either change their business plan, and look for other ways to make money on new cars (get other incentives), or they're going under.

cracovian

Everyone (dealers and manufacturers) are going under in case you haven't noticed. Everyone is pretty much losing money right now and not able to cover their expenses (with the exception of Hyundai and maybe Subaru.) I also think the overall mfg. incentives are pathetic, much lower than during "good times" a while back - I just don't see how this will turn around though used car prices are going up like crazy, so maybe they're just waiting us consumers out...

lrguy44

We may be the excepton, but instead of rebates, we get "dealer cash". Although we normally pass it on to the customer, it becomes part of the gross profit in the deal. The only things we do not get paid on are Doc Fee, Business Builder (holdback), and Pack.

mikefm58

Down sales still don't mean you have to sell cars at a loss.

Yeah but but, I heard they make it up in volume. :shades:

madmanmoo

GG, sales are down everywhere. Yes, even for Honda. Having worked for Honda in good times, they still had many incentives going on which included dealer cash, rebates, special finance and lease rates..... So, one can only infer that they are going to be having more specials right now since business is not 'as usual'.

No, Honda is not immune. No matter what our starry-eyed friend tells you.

boomchek

I would not take a bribe for the following reasons:

-It's unethical. It would reinforce the stereotype of sleazy car salesmen.

-I can give you a good price without a bribe. Put your money where your mouth is, make a serious offer, and if you really want to convince me you're serious, give me your credit card with the offer to take to my manager.

-I have no control on the figures that my manager puts on a worksheet, therefore I wouldn't be able to adjust any numbers.

-Even if I had control, there's no way I'd get bribed into paying too much for a trade in that might be collecting dust on the lot for the next 6 months. I would ultimately be responsible for it, and I would have to answer to my superiors as to why I paid what I paid for it.

-$300 bribe can ultimately throw a profitable career out the window so it's not worth it.

-It's hard enough to believe some customers when they say they'll come back to buy, they're serious buyers, they won't shop you, they'll buy today etc... So why would I believe anyone who's offering to bribe me, that they won't expose me, or turn back on their offer.

On a related note, this is why I wouldn't trust anyone who offered a bribe.

Few years ago at a previous dealership I worked at, a customer wanted to trade in her car. The dealer didn't offer enough, so a deal was not done. The salesperson that was dealing with her told another salesperson about he situation. The other salesperson happened to have a guy looking for that exact car, but since the dealer didn't have it, and wouldn't pay enough for the trade, they thought they could arrange a transaction on the side between the buyer and the seller. This way the seller would sell privately, and buy a new car she wanted, and the buyer would buy the trade in car, omitting the dealer from the whole picture. I don't know who was going to compensate them, but they had it all planned out.

They took the seller's car behind a nearby building to show to the buyer. The buyer liked the car. The buyer knew what they were doing was not right and was aware of the entire situation. The buyer then apparently "pleaded" with them to drop the price more as he didn't have much money and so on. When the seller wouldn't budge on the price, the buyer got ticked off, and turned around and ratted them out to the general manager. The buyer did it only after things didn't go his way although he was knowingly participating in a curbing transaction and probably wouldn't say a word if he did get the price he wanted. :surprise:

He ended up getting another used car off the lot at a considerable discount after many apologies from our management. One salesperson got suspended, the other one fired.

Moral of this whole bribe discussion? Don't trust anyone who's wants to engage you in unethical business activities as they'll turn their back on you in a second if things don't go their way.

lrguy44

Well said and well done. A car deal is NEVER worth a career.

isellhondas

I hope that wasn't directed to me,

I only stated that we (our store) does make money on the new cars we sell!

Nobody is immune from this insanity!

isellhondas

I wouldn't take a bribe of any form and I have refused cash tips and will continue to do so.

I have been given Starbuck cards and small thank you gifts from my customers.

fezo

Honda has always had at very least decent finance deals going. The first time I got one I was surprised. Now I expect them. I suppose that's become the way of incentives of any kind.

Craig - that sounds more right to me. Taking cash tips strikes me a little funny for folks that want to be viewed as professionals. Gift cards and such seem to go to anyone...

jipster

I hope that wasn't directed to me,

LOL. Well, it sure wasn't me... ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM! :P