Bait & Switch and Other Bad Advertising Tactics
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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The number one thing that I have seen all dealerships do with used cars is clean the floor mats and put them in the trunk. 99% of the time they put them in the trunk. They put them there for 2 reasons.
Reason # 1: The interior of the car will look cleaner and newer because the actual carpet may have always been covered by a mat.
Reason # 2: The mats are only clean on the surface. Just kick or beat the mat and you'll see how much dirt comes out.
The next thing I noticed was the the entire interior was covered in glossy goop. This is to cover up ground in dirt, imperfections, and stress marks on plastic and leather. It also can hide color fading.
The dealership also cleaned the top side of the engine and covered the entire engine compartment with the glossy goop. Once you steam clean or thoroughly wash the compartment, you will see all the oil leaks and dirt that the gloss is hiding.
One other thing. Not even a mechanic can spot this one. If a car has had a particular type of oil (either mineral or synthetic) in its engine its whole life, you need to continue using that same type. Otherwise it will cause leaks. The problem is, you will have to put the oil on the stove and see what temperature is boils at to know what kind of oil it is. Modern Inifiniti of Greensboro NC and its ugly sister's store in Winston-Salem do not carry the synthetic oil that my car drank for the first 127,000 miles of its life. They instead used mineral oil, which after driving the car for a couple thousand miles shows up in the form of leaks. Every seal CAN leak because of this. Fortunately I only have to replace 4 seals which take 8 hours to do. ($1121 worth)
Finally they lied about the car. They said the car had never been in accident and they verified that with a paint meter. Well it turns out that the guy was full of it. The car had been in an accident.
Please add to this. I have more to come.
I will comment on the second part about the syn vs conventional oil. What you said is frankly just untrue. I ran a service shop that did about 50% of its revenue in oil changes for several years. When I left to start my new job in sales I would say close to 20% of our oil change customers used synthetic of one form or another. Mostly amsoil but some other brands too. I had people that changed from one type of synthetic to another then switched to conventional then switched back to another kind of synthetic. Changing type of oils just does not matter one bit. They even make semi-synthetics that are as little as 10% synethetic or as much ast 25%.
Now if you run convetional oil in a car for a long time, say 100,000 or so miles, and then put synthetic in it you could have leaks. What would happen is the syn oil would clean out all the sludge that had built up in the engine from the conventional oil. If that sludge was blocking up some cracks in the original seals then you could have leaks form. There is also a danger when putting synthetic oil in a high mileage motor that the sludge will lock up an oil pump or block the pickup tube. I have put synthetic in cars with as high as a 120,000 miles after using coneventional the whole time. I did do an engine flush and pull the pan to remove any sludge that had been knocked loose. I have had people that were using synthetic for 100,000 or more miles and just decided it was not worth the expense anymore switch back to conventional with no problems.
What happend to you was just a coincedence. The car had 127,000 miles and just about needed seals anyway.
Reason #3 floor mats go in the trunk - if a car is left open and unattended at all, people steal floormats.
Unless it is a marginal used car lot, all used cars undergo the 'cleaning' that you saw. Interior carpet and cloth seats are cleaned with strong, commercial grade cleaner and interior plastic or leather surfaces and underhood rubber items are treated with 'ArmorAll' type liquid. The motor is washed with solvents, mainly to remove any oil leaks. They are USED cars. These treatments are to optimize their appearance. And, yes, to hide wear.
Changing types or brands of oil will not significantly increase leaks. In the 'olden days' there were detergent and non-detergent oils. On high milage cars previously run on non-detergent oil, changing to detergent could, in some cases, cause problems - sludge breaking loose, seals leaking, etc. But currently, it would be very difficult to find a quart of non-detergent oil. Most oils are about the same, and carry the same API certification codes. Unless someone made a distinct point to shop around to find the very cheapest re-refined oil. The car leaked oil for the previous owner, the dealership cleaned the motor to remove the oil stains, and after a few miles after purchase the leaks again became apparent.
If the dealership didn't give you a WRITTEN statement that the car had not been in an accident, then as the famous saying goes 'Their verbal statement isn't worth the paper it's written on.'. I'll bet on a 127,000 mile vehicle, you got a piece of paper with AS IS written in very, very large letters on it.
Now if you run convetional oil in a car for a long time, say 100,000 or so miles, and then put synthetic in it you could have leaks. What would happen is the syn oil would clean out all the sludge that had built up in the engine from the conventional oil. If that sludge was blocking up some cracks in the original seals then you could have leaks form. There is also a danger when putting synthetic oil in a high mileage motor that the sludge will lock up an oil pump or block the pickup tube.
I'd say that's accurate. However, I would not want to switch between conventional and synthetic oils -- once you go with one, you should stay with it, due to the sludging factor and its effect on seals after switching, as you referenced. And some cars should never be run on regular oil, no matter what.
Here's a theory about what may have happened: Your car may have obviously had a bad motor, so the dealership and/or the prior owner may have run some sort of stop-leak product in it for a time to conceal problems before switching it to the cheap dino oil.
Generally speaking, when I buy a used car, my first act is to change all of the fluids, unless I have a set of records that I believe makes it absolutely certain that they were changed recently enough that I need not change them again. New oil and coolant are relatively cheap, and I consider replacing these a cost of doing business.
And buying a well-used luxury car is really a serious gamble. I know it's tempting because they seem relatively cheap, but consider what incentives the seller has (whether dealer or private party) to conceal major problems that are even more costly to repair than they would be on another car.
Sorry to hear about your problems, I hope your next purchase goes more smoothly.
Switching oil won't cause problems. I use "cheap" dino oil and see little use for synthetics.
When I get asked if a used car has ever been in an accident, I always respond..."probably".
I will let them know that we have no way of knowing if a car has ever had body work done. Most cars on the road that are five years old have had **something** touched up.
A bump on the bumper will cause paint damage so that could be called "an accident".
We show Car Faxes and inspect for signs of a bad accident when we detect this we will wholesale the car.
Are you sure they said "no Camry's" or just "no Camry's in the color you want"?
So, at least for the past couple of weeks, the supplies have been thin. I don't know if Toyota will be replenishing the 2006 model, but like I said, around here, it's tougher to find- especially the base LE model (not the CE and not he upper models). The one I ended up buying yesterday was the last one the dealer I went to had in stock.
The online inventories that you can access as a customer are faulty (not updated) at best. However, when a salesman tells you at 9 am to come in and he'll make the deal for a certain price and claims to have multiple vehicles and when 15 minutes you walk into the dealership he tells you that he made a mistake and he had NO more cars inthe model you were looking for, BUT, he had several of the more expensive model... well, I gotta make an educated guess that the sales rep (and the dealership DOES have a bad rep- Millenium Toyota- avoid this dealership at all costs!)is a liar. Especially when over the phone at 9 am I told him to physically check (and he supposedly did)if he had cars because I would be in there in 15 minutes to buy one.
You have spent more time writing about it than you spent driving to the dealer.
If you want a car, find a dealer who sells one and buy it. It has always worked for me.
Don't you understand? It's NEVER that simple... :P
First of all Its a Toyota store, so you have a big selection of dealerships to visit, why did you go to the one who has the bad rep?
To me if as a consumer and a dealer I either shop where I hear they have good service even if I have to drive a little, and I work where they have a good rep even if I have to drive.
*the store I work at is 25 mins from home, and I can walk to the other Audi store, I just like working for a single owner, not a Corprate setting*
To prevent this from happening again, call a dealer, ask for there specific inventory, if there is one that they have in stock you are interested in, have them fax or email a spec sheet with the VIN, whether it be a Maroney sticker or and Invoice, and tell them you need to get an Insurance quote. Then you will not run into this problem again.
The only model I'm aware of that are more expensive than the LE is the XLE, correct? He did have those.
I don't know these dealers, but I've bought at Toyota stores before. They usually have a pretty big inventory of their most popular models (Camry being the most popular one).
But, glad you found one you liked in the color you liked. I can't imagine a sales person would let a buyer walk, though.
He would have been glad to sell me one of those for $3000 more then he had quoted me over the phone for a regular LE.
Dealer had LE's, but only ones that had more options than you wanted.
Don't worry. It was a once in a lifetime experience and will probably never happen again.
a GLS will not have heated seats, they are standard on the LX.
a GLS will not have an external temperature readout, standard on LX.
Seat height adjuster is optional on a GLS, standard on an LX.
The easiest way to tell might be the wheels-an LX comes standard with 17" wheels, the GLS has 16" wheels.
The codes like LX, GLS, ABC, ZR1, etc change through the years. On an older car, it'd be hard to find out exactly what came with which trim level. Insurance companies and Carfax get general listings, which aren't always accurate.
I found this info by using the comparator program on Chevrolet.com.
The fifth diget of your car's vin is "U". (If it were a GL the fifth diget would be "T.") The eigth didget "F" indicates it is the 3.3L engine, the 10th diget "6" indicates it is a 2006. Only the last six digets are unique to your car.
The GLS & LX are the same car at slightly different trim levels. The easiest way to tell an LX from a GLS is that the LX has leather seats and the GLS has cloth seats.
Thanks
Matt
If they accept, buy the car.
If they decline, then leave and come back here for more advice.
Anyway, heres a list of statues concerning what they have done wrong, definition ix seems most pertinant:
PA Statutes
If the Att. Gen, issues a fine against them, it ensures that I should probably open a small claims court file. I probably would have let it go, Mr. Goodwin pretty much said "do your worst", like he was impervious from these laws
Instead of constantly complaining about the deal, and after reading your above post, why don't you just FORGET THEM and get the car at one of the OTHER internet quoted prices. You are driving yourself CRAZY about this and we gave you GOOD advice. You are NOT going to WIN this BATTLE!!!!!
Well, the deal was still excellent, and I wasn't particularly interested in the additions of a standard LX. (See details here.) But the point is, some knowledgeable potential buyers may not go to the dealer if "-SV" is spelled out. Even myself went there with the expectation of a standard LX.">link title
Obvioulsy we didnt want it without em (looked nice) so we left and we didnt think much about it till my dad told some coworker the next day and he said that the same thing happened to his dad and they took the dealer to small claims and the dealer had to sell him the car that way.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So after the test drive I'm signing the deal and the salesman says: "...so we have a '93 Ranger with 155K for $4000...". I said "Umm..155K?" We double checked the window sheet price and sure enough it said 55K, and the odometer of that vintage only went to 100K.
Here's the best part. He asks "do you still want it?". Needless to say I passed.
Because, if it went to 100,000, there would have been a one in front of the 55,000 miles.
Mark
Good thing for Carfax these days...
I paid $800 for it....and sure wish I still had it.
I am about to take delivery (although have signed no papers yet) of a 2007 A4.
2007 a4 2.0t
Quattro
Premium package
Convenience package
Sport suspension
Bluetooth phone prep
Heated front seats
Anyway, the deal was made over the phone, I had test driven at my dealership, but was about to go with another, called up my original dealership, they beat the deal, they got my business. Here is the problem: the car wasn’t on the lot, so my guy was trying to get it from another dealership, which is fine. I am waiting a week, all the while, telling my guy, no rush (car is replacing my work vehicle, not a primary car), just get it done. After the week, I get another email, “ok the first deal fell through, I found the same car, exactly how you wanted it, only at a further dealership. The car is going to have 600 miles on it”.
Although apprehensive, I replied back that this was ok (by this time, I had been through 5 different marques, looking for the right car, and 4 different Audi dealers, looking for the right price). Now it’s been another week, I am supposed to sign tomorrow, and I’m feeling gullible.
The car has two thing missing that would make the deal passable, to me: the I-pod connector and mud flaps. I would take a lower price on the car, of course. The dealer is selling the car for $ 34,700 which includes tax, title, and registration.
Do you think adding more options would make up for the fact that this "new" car has 600 miles on it? Or should I tell them to locate a car with less than 50 miles?
BTW: Under federal law, it's not "new" if it has
more than 300 miles on it. I just found this out!
Ok guys, thanks for reading this post! I look forward to your feedback!
Best Regards,
Shipo
more than 300 miles on it. I just found this out!
A car is new if it has 50,000 miles on it if it has never been titled. The title will read "new".
If That 300 mile thing were true the the cars would not qualify for any "New" car rebates or programs.
Some one fed you a line on that one I think.
I am pretty sure that where it is says "For purposes of subparagraph (A)" means something that I don't understand.
the term "new motor
vehicle" means any motor vehicle driven with no more than the
limited use necessary in moving, transporting, or road testing such vehicle prior to delivery from the vehicle manufacturer to a dealer, but in no event shall the odometer reading of such vehicle exceed 300 miles.
That is saying that a car has to have 300 miles or less on it when the manufacture delivers it to the dealer, not when the dealer sells it to the consumer.
So in the conversation here it is incorrect to say that after the dealer transfer since the car has 600 miles on it that it is not a new car.
On the issue it sounds like the person on the Audi has a good deal. 600 miles is not much when you compare it 120,000 miles. It sounds like the dealer had to jump through hoops to get the exact vehicle they wanted.
In the end I think most people will pay for what they want.
I can't remember the last Audi I saw with 120,000 miles on it.