Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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The important words here are "For purposes of subparagraph (A)"... which reads:
(A) This subsection shall apply to all transfers of motor vehicles (unless otherwise exempted by the Secretary by regulation), except in the case of transfers of new motor vehicles from a vehicle manufacturer jointly to a dealer and a person engaged in the business of renting or leasing vehicles for a period of 30 days or less.
So the way I read it, all the law says is that mileage has to be disclosed, and the 300-mile issue only comes into play with a very narrow exception.
This particular definition of "new motor vehicle" doesn't seem to apply to any phase of a transaction that we as consumers are typically involved in.
I cannot thank you enough. clearly I misread at first (thats what I get for skimming the number 300). Now that you've explained it I feel much better about the current deal in general.
I also echo the sentiments of the other poster, 600 compared to 120,000 isn't that much. I'm more of a 60k driver than a 120k driver (as I've not driven many 100k+ cars, although the one I did have was a 1984 VW Rabbit
I don't know the answer. Is there a lawyer in the house?
I'd be reading that contract and figuring out what went wrong. I'm guessing Mama isn't much of a reader? I know contracts are confusing, but every loan statement I've ever seen had a line to the effect of: total amount to be paid: $31,746.00.
I'm going to dealership with her today and hoping to get the contract voided and renegotiated on ground of language discrimination, bait and switch and deception. I think we have a pretty strong case because it's insane that she is paying for two Altimas and getting one.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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It sounds more like highway robbery than bait and switch but please do let us know how it turns out.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
In some states I would think that 'requiring' an extended warranty to get financing would not be legal. In Tennessee I know it is illegal to require credit life and stuff like that. I can remember financing in about 1984 and the bank loan gal really pushing credit life but stopping just short of saying it was required. I'm sure the high commission on those extras contributed to the desire to push those things on customers.
Cost of the car was 21K I believe, plus 3k in warranties which ends up with the $24k figure (extended warranty and maintenance package) then there was another 3k for Remote Starter (mom wanted) Skyguard (didn't want) and a mystery to what th elast thing was until the manager found out it was 3xp or something liek that, mom didn't even know what it was.
Well he agreed to take those 4 things out so that would help the cost and told us to wait for the sales guy we dealt with, waited like 30 minutes. After being polite with the manager I called out the salesperson for switching the price after agreeing to a different one, and telling my mom she needed the warranties to get the loan, and his demeanor changed, told me he didn't like the fact he was accusing him of being a liar because he never lies (lol you're a car salesperson) and that he has never had a problem with a customer and in fact was nominated by Nissan as #1 salesperson in the country (ROFL) and said their was a misunderstanding on my moms part. At this point my mom got really upset at him because he lied to her and changed his story.
Anyways he agreed to cancel the warranties but not the 3xp (which we still didn't know what it was) nor the SkyGuard, now the manager told us he would cancel all 3, so I got up and proceeded to go to the manager when the saleperson called me back and told me to sit down, at this point he got up and went to the manager by himself (which in retrospect was a mistake letting him go by himself as he probably changed the managers mind) and came back argued some more an eventually said he would take off the skyguard but not the 3xp because it was on the car already. I talked to the manager as he went by and his response to not taking off the 3xp was that "he didn't know it was on the car already", I didn't see anything mentioned on the invoice about it either aside from the fact she was charged for it, at that point we were tired and didn't want to argue anymore but I was still mad as hell and left with a piece of paper signed saying they would take those 3 things off for a total of $4095+tax and whatever interest was on it.
Now what do I do next? Contact FTC? My mom just said leave it because with legal fees it wouldnt' be worth it, the saleperson said point blank that she had intialed everything and signed and it would hold up in court and I brought up the fact that some Spanish peopel won a case in California over the same matter because they couldn't understand English.
Is there anything else I can do to get any more back? I still feel my mom is paying way too much for a basic Altima with remote starter (I think it's going to be over 25k before interest)
These are the stories that make all car salepeople look bad.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Ya tell them to shove there $3000 remote start where the sun don't shine.
remote start
service and maintenance contracts: $3k
Skyguard (like LoJack?): a thousand?
3xp (probably pinstriping or a wing): another grand?
remote start: $3k
a wonko interest rate and tax might get us to $38k.
($31k financed and $7k down if memory serves)
She got soaked.
If lawyer fees are what she's worried about, maybe try your local new station. They might be able to rattle the cage a little. This does look like a case of 'let's confuse the little ole Spanish speaking lady and see what we can get by with.' A third party (lawyer) may be able to talk sense into these creeps.
With that being said nothing irritates the hell out of me more then when a customer comes back and plays the language card simply because they had buyers remorse.
When I have a spanish person in my office I log onto www.freetranslation.com and translate all the pertinent crap for them. I then print it and have them sign it also. It has put an end to having a legitimate transaction questioned just because some ones buddy told them they could have got a better deal.
As a matter of fact I have had people that supposedly did not speak english finally tell me in english "Hey man you don't need to use the translation thing, I understand just fine.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Car 21k
Maintence package and extended warranty is 3k
Remote Starter is 1k
Skyguard is 1.2k
I think 3xp is 1.5k (says it's like some dent resistant paint or something, nothing on invoice about it and claim it's on the car but we have no proof, going back to argue this again)
then add tax on top of that and you get 29-30k, then they financed her for 79 months at a high interest rate and you get 38k
My mom does not have buyers remorse, she wants the car, but deal she agreed upon was not the deal they put on the contract. There was someone else with her when she was negotiating and I got the numbers she got from him before her so I know she wasn't lying, on top of that I know she didn't want all this crap and wanted 48 months at first and no way in hell she wanted 60 while the saleman acted like that is the deal we were talking about all the time.
My mom is happy I got the 4k off (will be 5k after interest) but I still want that 3xp off, there is no record of it on the invoice besides a vague charge, and no proof we even have it, on top of that I can live with the price after that comes off, it will be 24k with remote starter for the altima which is 23k with taxes and everything which is 1-2k more than you expect to pay.
I googled this 3xp and don't know what the hell it is or how to find out if my mom's car has it, any advice?
They don't want to tell you because you CAN check for undercoating and it most likely doesn't have it.
Oh, and when you are done negotiating, REFINANCE.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Anything I can do about the 3xp though?
Also, if it IS a protection package, it should come with some sort of guarantees. For instance, we paid for scotchguard on our couch. Not because I think its worth paying something to spray $2 of crud on my sofa, but because it came with a warranty if I let them do it. Any stains they can't get our or even if I tear it, they fix or replace it.
Now, if you can find out it is what i said. If undercoating is part of it, then take a look and see if it has undercoating. Take it to someone who would know, if you want. If it doesn't, then you have a leg to stand on. You can't, however, proove if it does or doesn't have paint sealant or scotchguard. BUT, like I said, that should come with some sort of warranty. So ask for the paperwork on that. At least your mom could feel better that she has some sort of protection for her money.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
where it says:
"(B) For purposes of subparagraph (A), the term “new motor vehicle” means any motor vehicle driven with no more than the limited use necessary in moving, transporting, or road testing such vehicle prior to delivery from the vehicle manufacturer to a dealer, but in no event shall the odometer reading of such vehicle exceed 300 miles. "
I have an American friend who paid close to sticker on a GMC Envoy a couple years back when she should have got it close to 10K off. I don't see it as a dealer fault; it's just that she's not doing her job.
From what I see, only the 3xp is a scam because you might not get what you're agreed to pay.
Financing: you already mentioned that your mom does not have a good credit that's also the reason her total number is really high. However, even with perfect credit, you still need to shop around to get the best rate.
When I tried to get my mortgage about 6 years ago, the rate was ranging from 6.25% to 9%. If I took the 9% rate, can I go back in a week and accuse the bank that they try to scam me?
What I'm trying to say is that if you agree to pay for something and you get it, that's not a scam. My .02.
Second, this is not a case of Bait and Switch, but more of case of taking advantage of a foreigner who did not learn the language of the country that gave them shelter.
Don't take me wrong, I am all for immigration, I am an immigrant myself. The big part of immigration involves Integration, which in major part relies on language comprehension.
Yes, I speak and understand English better than my parents. That is why my sister or myself go with them when important decisions need to be made and there is a potential for abuse due to language comprehension, and make sure they understand exactly what they are being told/offered.
Consider it lesson learned.
P.S. I find it that people of the same ethnicity tend to take advantage of their own kind more often than general populus.
Terry.
What I mean is when an immigrant would come to buy a car and bring there 12 year old to translate. I always feel like I am negotiating with the kid and not the parent
It wounds like you were expecting the dealers to tell you the truth. Big, big mistake.
No mistake. The dealership could very well have been telling the truth. They said they "thought" they told him it was a demo. You got proof they were lieing? Let's not lump all dealerships into the, "you can't expect them to tell you the truth" camp, please. Thank you.
They don't sound that bad of a dealership. They filled up her gas tank for good faith. It sounds like they were giving a great deal. Otherwise why would she drive 6200 miles. They said they were selling a new car at that price, it is still considered a new car if it has never been registered. If they were a bad dealer as you are potraying them why would they fill up the gas for someone who wasn't going to buy there in the first place. Did you get the same deal at another dealer with less than 100 miles on the car?
I understand you are venting but you are bashing that dealer pretty hard. They must be some what respcectable.
You're kidding, right? That's the kind of hair splitting that gives lawyers a bad name too. By that logic you could sell me a "new" car with 100,000 miles on it.
There are two possibilities here. 1) The buyer was so taken by the deal he thought he was getting that he didn't listen to what was being said about milage. 2) The dealer took the chance that after driving 4.5 hours the buyer would cave in and take a bait and switch rather than go home empty.
Being the professional I find it hard to believe the dealer would not have gone over every detail (including milage) before putting the buyer on the road. If I was an honest salesman I would repeat every facet of the deal and have the customer write it down so that this stuff wouldn't happen.
I'm sorry sales guys, either this dealership is run by a pack of dopes or a bunch of crooks.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Of course it is a 'bait and switch'.
When they said they were trying to find a different color for the same price - this by definition would mean it is a new car being negotiated. There could be no mis-unstanding about it being a demo or loaner car!
And shouldn't any sale of a demo or loaner have this disclosed very early in any sale of the car????
And they only gave a tank of gas because the lady would not be pushed into accepting the car and the son chewed on people. They were probably worrying about a complaint being filed with local BBB, etc and decided a tank of gas was worth it.
I think I would go ahead and file a complaint about this type operation.
Of course, this is a shining example of why you usually cannot sucessfully buy a car long distance over the phone.
I don't think any of us support a dealer who tries to deceive a car buyer like this dealer did.
However, I think a buyer should expect a dealer to lie and cheat and do other nasty things. If we are prepared for a dealer to act like that, it will be easier for us to deal with it when it actually happens.
On more than one occasion, we have made deals over the phone. When we got to the dealer, the car was exactly what we wanted and the price was exactly what we had agreed to pay. so we bought the car.
In another case, they tried to increase the price, so I left. No hard feelings. I was ready for them to act like they did.
The first question I always pose when a deal seems even remotely possible is: how many miles are on the unit?
If they can't give me the basic courtesy of answering an E-mail why on earth would I do business with them?
No I am not kidding. Here in Ma. We can drive a demo up to 6500 miles before the state requires us to sell the car as a used car. It may be different in other states. That is all I am suggesting. The deal sounded like a screamer deal and it doesn't sound like the original poster asked what the miles are.
Yes I think the sales person should have disclosed that info because by not he caused more headaches. But I believe that is respectable for the dealer to fill up the gas. i know many dealers that wouldn't have done that.
The extreme discount should have raised a red flag. Other wise why would she drive 1000's of miles to get a great deal. Eevry dealer pays the same for their cars.
Those are the things that happen when pitting dealers against each other. Remeber a dealer has a much better chance selling a car to some one when they are their dealership. It sounds like a case of get them in. They even went lower then their price over the phone so I don't think they are as bad as they made it out to seem.
We all know the old saying, "if it sounds too good to be true..."
Chalk it up as a learning experience. No way you should make a drive like that unless you know ALL the details. If a dealer was hitting me with a number that nobody local could touch, my first thought would be that it had miles or had been damaged during delivery and fixed or SOMETHING.
I think the dealer worked very hard to make it right and not have someone leave their dealership upset.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Remind me why we haven't voted them out of the union.
Gee, would have loved to see the legislative caucusing that created that one. "let's split the difference between your stupid idea and my stupid idea and create maximum stupidity.".....
Remind me why we haven't voted them out of the union."
Hey, we tried to get out in 1861 but you dragged us back in.
And we ain't so dumb. We Crackers had the sense to vote for George Wallace in 1968.
Bob (a former Gator)
Oh, and FAAO and WPAA
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
3 votes for our party, one for theirs, three for us, one for them, etc...
"one for you; one for me
two for you; one, two for me
three for you; one, two three for me.".....
No wonder the vote was close!