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Bait & Switch and Other Bad Advertising Tactics

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  • mjk5mjk5 Member Posts: 43
    this is not a case of Bait and Switch, but more of case of taking advantage of a foreigner who did not learn the language of the country that gave them shelter.

    My Mom can speak English very well, it's reading and writing she is not good at. So she had no problem negotiating, but when they handed her a contract to sign, which is probably made to be confusing to Americans let alone foreigners, the guy pointed to one number and claimed this was the amount financed and pointed to another as the total cost of the car etc.

    Anyways, an update on the situation. After I went with my mom which was probably 4 weeks ago, they agreed to take the sky guard, warranty and maintenance package off. We had relatives over but my mom called the finance person she worked with so she could have some paperwork or some kind of proof that this was taken off and he kept telling her he would call her back. AFter no response we went today and the guy was on vacation this week and they kept bringing it up but didn't explain the 3 other weeks he didn't do anything. Anyways it looks like he did nothing at all as we went through the same cancellation crap again. He claimed since the skyguard wasn't installed it wouldn't be charged and that is all it takes to get it canceled (which is a completely different story the other guy told us...) and the two warranties would be canceled and to pick up paperwork tommorow.

    Anyways I asked about the 3xp again, he said he couldn't take it off because it had already been installed. I told him my mom never agreed to this and never even heard of it, wasn't on the receipt and I'd like to see the initial for it on the contract, or something having to do with it. He looked at the paperwork and said "oh they forgot to put it on the bill of sale." I then say I want it off, and he goes off on how everything is intialed (the maintenance and warranty is because they told my mom she wouldn't get approved for loan if she didn't get it, which was a lie, and skyguard was on same page as remote starter) I ask to see the 3xp initial again and he changes the subject back to it's already installed, a few minutes later I ask again and still nothing, then he brings up how they are doing us a favor by taking this off and they don't have to and use the scam word because this pissed me off and the guy went off again, these [non-permissible content removed] car dealers really don't like being told what they really are I guess.

    Anyways, my mom said to just drop it for now so they would get the first 3 off first and I agreed and just shut up and bit my tongue.

    But now I'm wondering how long should I wait before it's too late? and what approach should I take? call Nissan corporate? FTC? They wouldn't show me the initials on the 3xp, so they obviously don't have anything and I want to get it off.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    have they been able to tell you what the 3xp is or what it does for the car? any warranties come along with it?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    Why don't you call your "local" newspaper to get involved. They love stories such as your Mom's!!!

    NORTSR
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    What is 3xp? What is sky guard? I work for nissan and have never heard of either one.
  • mjk5mjk5 Member Posts: 43
    I have no idea what skyguard is, 3xp is scotchguard, undercoating and something else I believe
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    3xp means you are charged 3 times(x) the price(p) you should have been charged.

    mjk5, I would take what they offered, then go back to get this 3xp crap taken off as well. That they have no documentaion should lead to victory if you take the right steps. They are trying to grind you down and get you to give up, but you've got them on the ropes.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    the last one would be paint protection. But, for some reason, they have not been able to come out and tell him that. So if they can't tell him what it is or show where she agreed to it ....

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    the last one would be paint protection. But, for some reason, they have not been able to come out and tell him that. So if they can't tell him what it is or show where she agreed to it ....

    Sounds like a possible law suit. She should contact a attorney. :mad:
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    They likely can't prove that they actually did it either in the case of the paint protectant and scotch guard.

    Heck, if you can get them down to their cost on it it would be almost nothing....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • mjk5mjk5 Member Posts: 43
    Ok, so I went to go pick up "paperwork" for my mom yesterday. He had to fill it out so he couldn't give us it yesterday, and well he had a lot of work to do as he put my mom's name and address on two forums and the name of the dealership and gave it back..even forgot to sign it until I reminded him. It says the form (two exact sames ones) are "cancellation requests" Now it doesn't list what it's canceling or anything but they tell me that we don't have to do anything else? Are they screwing us around like they did 4 weeks ago? I mean we still really have no documentation
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    Why don't you retain a Lawyer?????
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yes, indeed. An hour's worth of a lawyer's time will fix this in a hurry. Trust me, if they don't have documentation for the added crap the law will be on your side.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Yes, indeed. An hour's worth of a lawyer's time will fix this in a hurry. Trust me, if they don't have documentation for the added crap the law will be on your side.

    The lawyer will more than likely get the dealer to pay for his time. Or you could use your local officials.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Good point!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • mjk5mjk5 Member Posts: 43
    I'd have no problem getting a lawyer if that is what it comes down to, but first I want to get these three things off (warranty, maintence plan, skyguard) before going after the 3xp. Now they claim they have canceled and it will take 4-6 weeks, but they said that a month ago also. Is there anyway I can check? Call Nissan corporate? Anything? I don't want to even do anything on 3xp until these things are off, we have in writing on piece of paper that they will take them off, but I want to be positive before I become an [non-permissible content removed] because they may take the 3xp off and decide not to do anything about the other 3
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Who are they refunding? Your Mom or the lender? If it is the lender just call them 3 times a week asking if there has been a credit to the account other then the scheduled payment. If you can access the account on line just check it every day to see if there is a credit.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    If you call Nissan corporate all they will do is file a complaint. You have to look at the original paper work and the last paper work they gave you with nothing on it. The best thing to do is have the dealer cut you a check for what ever they charged you. Your payments will stay the same. If they refund your bank ( who you financed the car thru it won't come off till the end of the loan and you will still have the same payments. It sounds like all paper work isn't documented properly and that is why you case in court. Take this issue to lawyer! I know it is a pain in the a** but the biggest bark gets the first treat.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    I am going to suggest this "one more time"..Get a LAWYER and let him fight it out for you and do the worrying. You are definitly getting the RUNAROUND and driving yourself CRAZY.
    I am not a lawyer, but this sure sounds like a good case for one. (of course, we have only heard your side of the story)!!!!!
    NORTSR
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    Again, I’m with the dealer in this case. I think the dealer already did so many favors by refunding most of the $$. What’s wrong with people nowadays? You walk into a dealer and you agree to pay a certain amount of $$ for a car, that’s the end of that.

    It’s a sad thing that she did not get a good deal but it happens everyday. I saw people bought a 2-3 years old car for about 1-2K cheaper than a brand new one. Do you think it’s fair that those people just go back to dealers and make complaints to get some $$ back?

    One of my neighbors just got a used ’06 Altima, almost 2 years old, with 15000 miles for 16.5K + 600 (extra warranty) + TTL. He could have got the same car (brand new ’07 Altima with new design) for around 18.5K +TTL.

    We’re talking about a mature person here not an 18 years old girl. If she wants to buy a 20K car and all the sudden she needs to pay close to 30K, she should just wait and talk to other people first. If she decides to get for that price, that’s her choice.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,200
    "...If she decides to get for that price..."

    I guess it comes down to her understanding what she was signing. At first it seemed funny that she would not but I realized that many immigrants may learn to speak English but don't really master READING English. I know that was the case with me and high school Spanish.

    From my extensive legal background (mostly watching Judge Judy) I seem to remember that a contract is only valid when both parties understand what they are agreeing to. If it can be shown that one party did not understand what they were signing a court would rule that there was no contract.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    If it can be shown that one party did not understand what they were signing a court would rule that there was no contract.

    I will go to my grave disagreeing with with that. I lived in Germany and Italy for a total of 4 1/2 years and would never have used the language crutch. I also made a point to learn the language of both of my host countries.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,200
    "...made a point to learn the language of both..."

    That's good, but did you learn to READ the language well enough to understand a complex document like a car contract? I have trouble with them in English.

    I was just playing Devil's Advocate here. If I had trouble understanding a contract in any language I would bring assistance. I think I recommended that some posts back.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    No, but I also would have NEVER entered into such a complex contract with out a trusted person sitting next to me to explain it.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Yes, but many thousands of people a day do this, enter into an auto contract they don't understand.

    I bet a significant percentage of them don't have a good handle on the concept of interest.
  • mjk5mjk5 Member Posts: 43
    It's been over 2 months and my mom just called the bank and nothig has been done. I have told her a few times to get a lawyer but she has said it's not worth it since it will cost too much, how much would a lawyer cost in this case?
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    The lawyer will cost nothing they will charge the dealership for their time. ;)
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Why is it every time I look at the title of this thread I think it's talking about a sadomasochistic fishing tackle supplier?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • mjk5mjk5 Member Posts: 43
    How will the lawyer cost nothing?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    The lawyer won't get nothing. I believe what he is saying is that the dealer will end up having to pay your lawyer as part of losing the case. It's been known to happen.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    I believe what he is saying is that the dealer will end up having to pay your lawyer as part of losing the case. It's been known to happen.

    Exactly...........

    It sounds like you have a case worth fighting for. If the lawyer finds the dealer at fault than he will charge the dealer. If he doesn't think anything is there he won't take the case.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    You mean if the Judge finds the dealer at fault.. and IF he also awards attorney's fees to the plaintiff.

    You can also lose a trial and owe the defendant's legal fees.

    If the buyer signed the contracts, this is actually a very difficult case to win, like it or not.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    You can also lose a trial and owe the defendant's legal fees

    I agree, but like buying a car i would hope he would find that info upfront. All I am saying is that he may find someone that does pro-bono work. I can't remeber the exact reason he needed to do this but that is what i was getting at. It can happen both ways. At this point though it feels like we are beating a dead horse. :sick:
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,331
    I don't know what state we are talking about, but you usually can't collect attorney fees unless they are expressly provided for by a statute or by a binding contract. For example, most credit card contracts contain a provision that allows the creditor to recover attorney fees in the event that the debtor defaults and a collection action is required.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I would guess the customer signed an Arbitration Agreement so first you would have to go through that process.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,331
    I would guess the customer signed an Arbitration Agreement so first you would have to go through that process.

    Good point!

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Member Posts: 543
    Do you have the chapter and section of the state law on this because I do not believe that to be true. I have bought several "new" cars hers in FL. Unless there was a recent law change / addition, then FL is like other states with regard to new / use car status.

    But then again the treatment of pigs in slaughterhouses is so important, it is in the state constitution in this state.

    A new car has the "certificate of origin" which is essentially a "new car" title from the manufacturer. Most of you will never see one because the dealer does the state tag paperwork nearly all the time, but I saw them in MA when I did my own registration. The CO is turned in to the state at first titling, after which the car can no longer be titled as a new car.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    I thought that was strange for FL. to do that but IM_ B sounds like he knows what he is talking about and I never sold cars in Fl. so I wouldn't know but it does sound wierd.

    I do sell in Ma.and if a customer pays Cash and is adiment about doing it on their own we will give them the CO. Most people that want to do it on their own think they are getting a better deal by doing it themselves.

    But most people don't want to go to the registry and I can't blame them. So we register customers that pay cash. It's just easier and quicker. Once I get the plates I put it in for a sticker and clean up and they take delivery. It's that easy!

    Why did the dealer give you the "CO" in Ma when you lived here. Did you want to register it out of state in NH, Conn, VT, or something like that?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I can assure you that it's technically the law. Check your buyer's order on the last car you bought, it will say "Titled as new but defined as used by (number) FL Statutes..etc)

    Do I have the statute # in front of me? Nope, but I am sure that Florida Statutes are online and you can find it there.

    All it basically states is that a new car is defined as one with zero or 1 or whatever miles on it. In reality, that's never the case.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Pro-Bono! I didn't know that dude was still around! Loved his music.
    Mackabee
    :blush:
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Pro-Bono! I didn't know that dude was still around! Loved his music.
    Mackabee


    The correct emotorcon would have been :shades:

    A true fan would have known that ;)
  • futureman44futureman44 Member Posts: 12
    I received an internet quote for a Maxima SV Premium package for $31,800. When I went to the dealership I showed them the price and said I had a cash for clunker car to turn in. At that point the salesman said that they were only accepting CFC off the MSRP. The deal he gave me for CFC was worse than the internet quote I received from them. After haggling with him about honoring the quote and taking the $3500 off the quote he walked away from me.

    I would recommend staying away from dealerships who bait and switch and then get angry at you for their own program.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    That's not the definition of bait and switch.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Sale Price: $31,800
    Less CFC 3,500
    Due at sale$28,300

    CFC = CASH for clunker, thus it is Cash & should be regarded as such.

    Dealer gets his $31,800 of which CFC is only 11% of the price.

    Not accepting the proposed deal smacks of B&S.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Someone posted another dealer doing the same thing in the C4C forum. My guess is some dealers are doing this to cover themselves. If the reimbursement falls through, they are exposing themselves the least by having the room between MSRP and their cost to buffer the blow.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,200
    "...some dealers are doing this to cover themselves..."

    Most are doing it to score a home run. There have been a number of complaints that there is one price for the regular customers and MSRP for the C4C buyers.

    Not illegal but darn short-sighted IMO.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    How exactly is this short sighted?
    I think that the majority of these customers aren't habitual new car buyers.
    This is a once on a lifetime deal. May as well make as much as you can.

    No where is it written that a dealer can't make money. Selling cars at invoice minus incentives ISN'T making money.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,200
    "...How exactly is this short sighted..."

    Because people remember when they think they were done wrong. Do you think the OP will be back to that dealer anytime soon? Do you think he will tell all his friends not to shop there? You must see that if you sell at MSRP to the C4C buyer but not to others that the C4C buyer is going to feel that you are stealing part of his gov't rebate.

    I'm not saying that the dealer can't make money. If you read my posts you'll see that most of them are pro-dealer (or at least pro-salesperson) but sometimes you just can't club the baby seal. You give up some profit now to gain more later. I've worked for companies that only looked at money TODAY, they are all out of business now.

    Maybe I'm wrong. It could be that the public has such short memories that they will forget what they see as un-fair play and come wandering back zombie-like with no hard feelings. If that happened to me it would be a long time before I came back.

    There's a lot I don't understand about the car biz. :(

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Maybe I'm wrong. It could be that the public has such short memories that they will forget what they see as un-fair play and come wandering back zombie-like with no hard feelings. If that happened to me it would be a long time before I came back.


    Yup, its like that. Buyer loyalty is really a thing of the past. People today are taught to shop till they drop. So, chances are that even if you piss someone off today they will at least shop you in the future. For most dealers, you may as well make what you can today.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    The car business must be extremely competive and difficult to get a post like this from volvomax. :surprise:
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    The car business must be extremely competive and difficult

    Because the C4C caused people to buy now rather than later, the "future" market has been exploited especially for the Econo cars. So what's left to sell are the conventional vehicles which will require heavy discounts together with smaller sales commissions just to get the rest of us to buy.

    The toughest customer will be the retired Risk Taker who is hesitant about buying anything he does not really need. He is sitting on his Treasury expecting worse times in the form of Inflation and higher taxes.
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