Carmax - What's Your Experience?

user777

with their inventory on-line, the question arises, why didn't you check out the vehicles they had before going there?

i had a good experience.

i was in need of a clean used vehicle. wife had commitments with our other vehicle, and i had already missed a day of work.

making calls on cars out of the paper put me in touch with some questionable owners and used car dealers. didn't have the time, patience or access to transportation to drive around a good deal looking at so-so conditioned vehicles.

went on-line, saw three potentials.

i had time to look them over really well (several hours) and drive each of the three.

yes, a bit more than i could have gotten at reputable dealers or private sale (if i happened upon the right people).

i saw them all stress free, and one had just been discounted another $500 before going to another store.
the whole experience was worth the extra $$$ in the particular situation i was in at the time.

paisan

with their inventory on-line, the question arises, why didn't you check out the vehicles they had before going there?

Why would one be required to go in armed with info ahead of time? I see your point, however as the customer, the business is the one who should be convienent for the customer, not the other way around.

-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host

jlawrence01

Why would one be required to go in armed with info ahead of time? I see your point, however as the customer, the business is the one who should be convienent for the customer, not the other way around.

And assuming that you did check out the website, MOST dealerships do not update the websites very frequently AND some dealerships do NOT put all their cars on their website.

user777

guys, this isn't the way it works with CarMax. Their inventory tends to be (at least from my experience) reflected properly on-line.

what you say w.r.t. other dealerships is true.

paisan asks a question which i'm not sure i understand. my response is another question: why wouldn't one have a pretty darn good idea EXACTLY what they are looking for before they go to a dealership? specially, specially for a used car!

i can run and interpret a CarFax report. i can examine the miles and see if they are typical or high. i can see if it's a manual or automatic. if it has ABS or not.

when i show up and look at the car, i can see for example if it's a honda, make a determination if the vehicle has had sheet metal replaced (VIN on all major parts). there are things i can do to determine if it's been used up north and suffering the effects of salt and sand.

i don't need to go into the experience cold nor leave my purchasing decision exclusively to the information i've received from the sales agent. :shades:

paisan

guys, this isn't the way it works with CarMax. Their inventory tends to be (at least from my experience) reflected properly on-line.

what you say w.r.t. other dealerships is true.

paisan asks a question which i'm not sure i understand. my response is another question: why wouldn't one have a pretty darn good idea EXACTLY what they are looking for before they go to a dealership? specially, specially for a used car!

Not everyone is "computer" savy and most folks go out happen to see a big car dealership and boom go in and take a look. They aren't all "car" folks like most people on this board so they don't research things til they are blue in the face. I'm talking about joe-blow car shopper. Also just because YOU know that carmax has an up-to-date online system doesn't mean everyone out there (myself included who is fairly car-savy) would assume or even think Carmax would have an up to date system.

-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host

user777

but since you've (jack or jill consumer) have come to the site, you've read the posts, you know.

hence the value of the edmunds experience, and in this particular case, advantage CarMax. :shades:

i detest walking a used car lot and being told things which aren't true about vehicles i'm looking at. so if i can do a little upfront research (CarMax or XYZ Dealership), why not?

paisan

i detest walking a used car lot and being told things which aren't true about vehicles i'm looking at. so if i can do a little upfront research (CarMax or XYZ Dealership), why not?

You and I may feel this way, however most folks generic car buyers, even ones who come on here

A) Have not read all the posts
Don't care to do all the research you or I would do

-mike

user777

true, and wouldn't mind financing a car they can't really afford... try to drive the profit to zero for the dealership without a clue what they are really going for... and even if successful, tossing serious money away because they are financing for such a long period.

i know. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

paisan

true, and wouldn't mind financing a car they can't really afford... try to drive the profit to zero for the dealership without a clue what they are really going for... and even if successful, tossing serious money away because they are financing for such a long period.

A bit of an overgeneralization, I know several folks who can afford whatever they want, but they are shopping, hit up a dealer and pickup a car they want, they knew they needed XYZ type of car and just went and picked one up. No fuss no muss and the car worked fine for them. They just aren't car-people so they don't get all worked up over it.

-mike

nthe

i'll piggyback on the anti-carmax board. LOL

To the other salepeople who say carmax shoppers are easy to close, I 100% agree. Our asking prices are 1-2K less than carmax's "no-haggle" price. I've sold the same car, with more features, for less than carmax would have.

If are a defender of carmax and say their price is less than KBB retail, read the fine print on KBB's site. that retail price is where the dealership price should start, in excellent cond., but not the avg selling price of said vehicle in your area.

Also if you are considering working for carmax, know this: If i sold used cars on my lot for the price they do, i would be making 300-500 on each car in commissions, while at carmax they give you a flat rate, no matter how much gross they make on it. What if carmax makes 7K on a corvette, yet you only get 150-200, is that fair for their salepeople?

My dealerships pays 25% comm. on gross, or a 160 mini, whichever is more.

nthe

"Not even close to accurate. Maybe on some vehicles but I'd say less than 2%. Carmax relies on volume sales. To comment about why people come and pay Carmax prices is they are up front about things. They guarantee no frame damage vehicles, you get to see on a computer screen what terms the lenders will give you. Just to name a few things. "

less than 2%? oh come on, i've seen carmax prices, and i've seen what my dealership has made selling almost the same car for less. Carmax does make money on the financing, just as every other dealership does. The banks give carmax a buyrate, and carmax charges 1-2% more than that, and don't even try to say they don't.

voicemailking

carmax makes a ton on each vehicle. they claim each car gets aprox $1500.00 in work, i saw many cars get a wash and maybe an oil change, but as i had said before, they are plenty overpriced, so in essence, they rip you off right away instead of negotiating a "better" price with you ...

:lemon: :lemon: :lemon: SHOULD BE THEIR EMBLEM!

user777

how much work does the typical car get at a dealership before being offered as used inventory? and how about if it's listed as "certified"?

go ahead and convince me.

joel0622

how much work does the typical car get at a dealership before being offered as used inventory? and how about if it's listed as "certified"?

go ahead and convince me

I can't speak for all of them, but my experience has been this.

30K 05 model comes into inventory and we decide we are going to put it in our CPO inventory. Average spent on those units is around $900 in the shop. Normally its tires, brakes, Oil and filter, and a new Air Filter plus anything else the shop can ding us for. The used car department is the shops best customer.

Then the car goes through detail at a charge of around $110. Then there is the CPO Fee which is $395. If you certify the vehicle then it has to come with new wiper blades, new floor mats and a full tank of gas, so there is another $125.

So on the average CPO unit you are looking at $1530, and we are still cheaper then car max on the selling price and can offer a rate between 3.9 and 14.9 depending on your credit. Plus the 75K Powertrain Warranty and a discounted Premium Care Service Contract upgrade if you want it.

Those figures do not include the $20 to sticker it, $10 bucks for emmisions inspection and any charges on things like scratches or door dings.

paisan

30K 05 model comes into inventory and we decide we are going to put it in our CPO inventory. Average spent on those units is around $900 in the shop. Normally its tires, brakes, Oil and filter, and a new Air Filter plus anything else the shop can ding us for. The used car department is the shops best customer.

Then the car goes through detail at a charge of around $110. Then there is the CPO Fee which is $395. If you certify the vehicle then it has to come with new wiper blades, new floor mats and a full tank of gas, so there is another $125.

And even these prices are a bit high for wholesale parts. I run a small shop part-time doing mods for kids and have a few wholesale accounts with low volume and we get prices below that as well.

-mike

joel0622

And even these prices are a bit high for wholesale parts. I run a small shop part-time doing mods for kids and have a few wholesale accounts with low volume and we get prices below that as well.

Mike, what is your labor rate? Do you charge out of the time labor guide or actual time spent on the job?

A person would think we would get a break at the shop, but there is a reason all the mechanics want to be the one to do the inspections on the used cars

paisan

We do modifications, so there is no "guide" but I was just looking at the parts side of things. If I get wipers, mats and gas for around $40-50 then a "professional" place will get those parts for significantly less. Same for tires, oil, etc.

Our labor rate runs between $75-125/hr depending on what we are doing. Some items we have a "std" price others we bill out actual time and materials.

-mike

joel0622

If I get wipers, mats and gas for around $40-50

Now days $40-$50 won't even cover a tank of gas on an Explorer We can get cheaper knock off mats for around $25 but we choose to put the Ford Mats in there. They look nicer and don't end up in a ball under your feet causing a safety issue.

Our rates are a touch cheaper, we run at $85 PH and it is billed out of the TLG. That has always amazed me. If the book says a job takes 3.5 hours and the mechanic finishes it in 2 hours he still gets paid for the 3.5. I don't know much about it though. I don't know much about how they decide the hours and how often jobs take longer.

paisan

Well I bet there are times the trades come with at least a 1/2 tank of gas in it.

I would think internally you wouldn't get charged from the guide though, that would be kinda dumb IMO.

-mike

joel0622

From the Used car departments perspective it is. Not from the Owners. Like I said, there is a reason every one wants to be the used car mechanic

user777

ok, you have to help me because i'm a tad challenged.

what is the diff in the price of the vehicle if CPO vs. non-CPO to the customer? I mean, customer is paying for all of this (or a good portion) right, and the warranty?

Also, you're indicating "average is $1500". some more some less I presume.

so it's entirely probable that a car will receive a heck of a lot less for going CPO mode, and of course far far less for non-CPO.

so are you categorically claiming, the vehicle after CPO conditioning and warranty cost to the customer is less than CarMax?

kyfdx

A lot of it depends on the warranty... BMW charges around $1200 to the dealer for the CPO warranty on a 3-series... so, their costs are going to be quite a bit higher than Ford..

After all... the warranty is what you are really paying for..

Without the warranty, CPO = nothing

joel0622

so are you categorically claiming, the vehicle after CPO conditioning and warranty cost to the customer is less than CarMax?

Yes, more times then not.

95% of the time I can crush Carmax's price and still make a fair profit for the dealer. As I have said before I will never understand why a consumer will pay carmax high retail for a car they have no history on other then Carfax, which is only as good as the insurance company or body shop handling the claim, when they can come to a dealer and allot of times pay the same same money for a one owner that was purchased and serviced here on site and I have maintanence records for it since day one. And pay less for it :confuse:

We buy at the same auctions Carmax does so its not like they have a secret used car factory some place.

But I do applaud Carmax, they have done a great job of marketing themselves to the general buying public

Kyfdx, other then the Warranty on the CPO's you are forgetting about the lower rate. 3.9% is a pretty sweet deal on a used car right now.

joel0622

Without the warranty, CPO = nothing

Don't forget about the APR. 3.9% on a used truck is pretty sweet right now.

kyfdx

Yes... but that is for a true CPO car with the warranty, right?

All I'm pointing out.. is that a lot of dealers will tell you that they certified their used car by inspecting and bringing it up to standards... but, unless that includes the warranty, you are only getting a promise of a better car, without anything to back it up..

You can't get the special rate without the warranty, right?

joel0622

You can't get the special rate without the warranty, right?

I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that the only advantage to a CPO was the Warranty.

You are correct, just because a unit is brought to CPO standards does not mean it is a CPO until the dealer registers it as one.

user777

should i take this to mean also that it's possible, the work on it hasn't actually been done before it's put into the system?

also, while you say you can crush CarMax pricing with CPO+Warranty, do you (more often than not) actually do so? :shades:

joel0622

should i take this to mean also that it's possible, the work on it hasn't actually been done before it's put into the system?

No don't take it that way. We bring cars to CPO standards all the time and CPO them. But if you have brought them to standards you know what the cost will be if you do have to CPO it, that way you are not shooting in the dark.

also, while you say you can crush CarMax pricing with CPO+Warranty, do you (more often than not) actually do so?
Yes if some one is shopping us against Carmax we will beat there price by allot (I consider $1000 allot) 90% of the time. Heck we use there Website as a closing tool. If some one gets to my office and is not closed on the price I pull there website up and do a cost comparison.

user777

well, ok, now that i'm calibrated, i don't doubt you. that speaks something of your dealership and you, but then i highly doubt this is true across the industry. i would also assume, the degree to which you can better a deal is dependant on the vehicle.

can you tell me what types of vehicles you're beating CarMax by $1000 90% of the time?

joel0622

can you tell me what types of vehicles you're beating CarMax by $1000 90% of the time?

Ford Products. Especially Taurus's F150's and Explorer' s.

user777

ahh ok, i could see that. i doubt this would be possible (heh heh) on say used honda accords, civics, toyota camrys or corollas as examples.

joel0622

ahh ok, i could see that. i doubt this would be possible (heh heh) on say used honda accords, civics, toyota camrys or corollas as examples.

Ya we are not competitive in that market. The average Foreign Car Buyer usually does not shop a Ford lot for something like that. And if they have the choice of going to say Carmax or a Honda dealer where they have 10 to choose from or our place where they have one to choose from they usually choose the latter.

sk8ermaiden

When I was shopping for my new Fusion, I also got each dealer's price for my trade in.

I have a 2000 Ford Taurus SE with 102,500 miles on it and minor damage to the left fender. I know everyone says KBB is crap, but as someone without access to car industry resources, it's all I have to go on. So I'm guessing about $1,000-$1400 for my trade.

Ford Dealer #1 offered $500. Um no. (We didn't end up wanting to buy there anyway.)

Ford Dealer #2 offers me $1,200 - which I think is great, but we wanted to shop the Fusion a bit more.

Ford Dealer #3 offered me $500 as well. I told him no way but did buy my new car there.

Took it to CarMax yesterday and they offered me $2,000. :surprise: I think they're paying too much, but I'll take it!

They didn't catch any of the problems on it I don't think. The radio has that Taurus fuse problem and doesn't work. The windshield wiper fluid pump smokes when you try to use it. I think it needs new brakes again. The engine light comes on and off, and I'm getting an acrid burning-rubber smell from the engine and white smoke from the engine occasionally.

paisan

When I was shopping for my new Fusion, I also got each dealer's price for my trade in.

I have a 2000 Ford Taurus SE with 102,500 miles on it and minor damage to the left fender. I know everyone says KBB is crap, but as someone without access to car industry resources, it's all I have to go on. So I'm guessing about $1,000-$1400 for my trade.

Ford Dealer #1 offered $500. Um no. (We didn't end up wanting to buy there anyway.)

Ford Dealer #2 offers me $1,200 - which I think is great, but we wanted to shop the Fusion a bit more.

Ford Dealer #3 offered me $500 as well. I told him no way but did buy my new car there.

Took it to CarMax yesterday and they offered me $2,000. I think they're paying too much, but I'll take it!

They didn't catch any of the problems on it I don't think. The radio has that Taurus fuse problem and doesn't work. The windshield wiper fluid pump smokes when you try to use it. I think it needs new brakes again. The engine light comes on and off, and I'm getting an acrid burning-rubber smell from the engine and white smoke from the engine occasionally.

Had the same experience. A friend was trading in his Mercury Cougar here in NYC and they were offering like $1000 for it, we took it down to the Carmax in White Marsh, MD and got something like $3000 or $3500 for it. Amazing stuff if you are "selling" a car.

-mike

1racefan

"A friend was trading in his Mercury Cougar here in NYC and they were offering like $1000 for it, we took it down to the Carmax in White Marsh, MD and got something like $3000 or $3500 for it. Amazing stuff if you are "selling" a car."

Why is this? Is it because Carmax takes a lot of these vehicles and puts them on their lot as "Valumax" vehicles instead of auctioning them off like a traditional dealer? Do they just figure they can pay more to acquire them, because they will retail them instead of sending them to auction?

paisan

My theory?

They'll take a car like the Cougar above (RWD, V8, etc) and take it down South and put it on a lot there. Similarly they'll move 4x4s and AWD cars which are traditionally harder to sell in the south and sell them up North.

Of course the person buying down in the south a car from the North won't know it's been sitting in salty water for a good part of it's life....

-mike

joel0622

I think your theory is very sound Mike.

metro123

I had a different experience during my recent visit to Carmax. I was looking to sell my car (01 Lexus ES300, 90K)and went to get an appraisal. After waiting for some time the consultant returns with a number about $2000 below KBB. The car had been in an accident so I expected to take a hit but I was dissapointed with the number. The consultant noticed my dissapointment and went into a speech about how they come to their numbers and the mileage, condition and accident factors. He also confessed that if it were a new, low mileage car that they could put back on the lot and sell, they usually pay a little more but the accident history made it a wholesale item only. I thanked him for his time and let him know I'd think about it. I then went shopping and got $900 more on trade from another dealer.

Overall, a good experience although I was not looking to buy from them, only to sell to them as their prices are high.

Interestingly enough, in the showroom they had a car on display with a huge sign stating, "we won't sell you this car" and a whole explanation about accidents and frame damage ect.. but while walking the lot I saw several cars with paint work, some very obvious.

tidester

won't know it's been sitting in salty water for a good part of it's life....

I think the signs are fairly obvious.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

paisan

I think the signs are fairly obvious.

I'm not so sure of that, yes to most folks on here who are car-oriented and know what to look for a car from the northeast which has been exposed to salty roads will know, but take your average joe, who is shopping at say a Carmax in Georgia, will they know the tell tale signs of a car driven in Salty conditions, especially after having a real good cleanup job? Probably not would be my guess.

-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host

mgfarmer

I tried posting this on the real world trade-in value thread but didnt get much of a response. I have a 97 civic hx with 82000miles that I am wanting to get rid of but with my work schedule I dont really have time to sell it myself. I have a Carmax dealership down the street from us and I am considering taking the car there for an appraisal. The Good KBB value is 3600 and the private party value is anywhere from 4,000-5800. Do you guys think there is any chance Carmax would offer me something in the $2500-$3500 range. The car is in great condition and has not been in any accidents.

exb0

Just to give you a point of reference. My father-in-law just sold his 98 civic lx 4dr sedan w/ 60k mi to carmax in N Va for $4500.

metro123

It's a shame you don't have time to sell it yourself because thats the perfect car for a private party sale. I could see a college kid or a pizza delivery driver snapping up a car like that quick. The problem with Carmax is that they will only give you low wholesale on the car wich could be thousands off retail. In my neck of the woods, clean low mileage civics sell quick, especially with the price of gas these days. I'd stick an ad in the paper or put a for sale sign in the window and price it at $4999. I bet it would be gone in one weekend. Good luck.

carguy70

cars that do not meet quality standards are wholesaled to local dealers in a private, dealers only auction. the price they give you for your car is what they expect it to bring in that auction (without losing any money) good example, a 98 kia sportage with 120000 miles is usually worth around two grand... rough book on this vehicle is less than $1000 but these small buy here pay here dealerships will pay that for that car.. on the other hand these guys are looking to buy more expensive cars like the lexus described above cheaper than rough book so they can make a greater profit on them or re-sell them at a larger auction quickly to make a quick buck. carmax runs the second largest auction in america behind manheim. there is a lot of research in how they come up with their number and kelley blue book has nothing to do with it. you can't enter your vehicle's information into KBB and then hit "print check" carmax is the only place i know of that will buy your car today without me having to buy anything from them. i think it's a great free service!! if i don't like their price, i'll sell it on my own or trade it in elsewhere...

joel0622

carmax is the only place i know of that will buy your car today without me having to buy anything from them. i think it's a great free service!!

The used to be unique in this manner. Now everyone in town here is doing it. Now instead of people driving around trying to save $100 on what they are buying they are driving around looking for another $100 on what there selling

paisan

i think it's a great free service!!

Nothing is free in life, NOTHING! Someone pays for it.

It's interesting that Carmax IIRC was or is owned by Circuit City.

-mike

carguy70

carmax has not been a part of circuit city for years now and why is the host of this forum so anti-carmax? what did they do to you? :confuse:

paisan

I'm not anti-carmax at all. If you look at my first posts you'll see that they said how high a price they gave my buddy for his Cougar in the day.

Oh yeah look at the top, I'm not a host of this area. I host the Motorsports and Tuning area.

-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host

tidester

If you look at my first posts ...

People don't normally cross reference each and every nuance. It's better to elucidate than to leave readers guessing.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

mgfarmer

I went by Carmax today to get my car appraised and though I would give you details on my experience. I will start off by saying it was very dissapointing. They have very nice salespeople but the offer they gave me for my car was terrible. I had a 97 civc hx wth only 82,000 miles. When Carmax came to me with their offer, they said my car met the excellent requirment in both mechanical, exterior,and interior condition and they will definitely want to sell it on their lot. I figured I was about to get a great offer but boy was I wrong! They offer me $2500 for the car and made it seem like I was getting an awesome deal. The KBB trade-in value was from 3200-4400. I then have them pull up on the computer what Carmax is charging for other 97 civics. Each one had a sticker price of $8000+. I asked them if they are going to charge the same for my car and they admitted that it would probably be priced in that same range. Of course my next question was how can they justify only offering me $2500 for a car they are going to sell for $8,000. The salesmen said it was due to the cost of advertising as well as the cost of having any maintenance that might be needed done on the car(keep in mind they have already told me my car has no mechanical problems). I then just grab the keys, tell them what I though about their business practices, and leave.

On the bright side my experience at Honda was much better. After the salesman works a deal on 2007 CRV(which was pretty good), I tell him I want to trade-in my current car. They have an appraiser look at it for 20 minutes and then come back with an offer of $3500. Needless to say I took the offer and will never consider going to Carmax. Carmax may offer a nice service to people since they will buy your car with no other obligations, but unless you need quick cash I would avoid selling a car to Carmax.