General Motors discussions

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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I've mentioned that in the UAW and domestics forum. Both company's ignored the pension liability's over the last 30+ years. General Electric started funding there's and the company couldn't touch it since the 1930's.

    Today GE has nearly $30 billion dollars in it's pension fund and it makes money thus leaving no further pension liability's for the company over the last "X" number of years. ;)

    Rocky

    P.S.

    riposte, Thanks for taking notice at the obvious. :surprise:
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    If I get a second car, the Mustang GT, is on the list of used ones.
    And still thinking about the CTS. Those without the lumbar support seats are not so comfortable. And the used prices still seem steep. Once the big model change comes for the 2008, the older style will suffer a little bit of price slump, which is a good thing for buyers. CTS, in its classic form may be better anyway. Yeah, I know strange looking interior. But then again, I have seen, heck owned worse, I think. I could get a fine looking Camaro Z28 in red, but I don't know. They have a couple of quirks.

    May just wait and trade in my current car and get another new car. If it didn't kill my back, I still kinda like the Tiburon. I guess the closest in the GM line is the G6 coupe, but the price goes up by the time you get the GTP. I did not want the electric assist steering one in the G6 line. Yes, I know the Monte depreciates rapidly. And last year I looked at a one year old rental return for $12,995, but thought hummm, perhaps not a good idea. Another dealer, during the fire sale months, had one for $20K out-the-door pricing, which wasn't too bad. Is the car really fun to drive though? Sort of decent cruiser, and handles the sweeper curves OK, but I don't know if it is me or not. Fusion, Altima and Sonata, would be on my sedan list. But I would like to get a coupe again. Tested a New Strange, and was not too moved by it. Maybe need another test drive without the chatty salesperson, or to try the V8. The V6 I drove seemed so-so.
    Seating or view forward did not seem right, or something. And I kinda liked the old Foxbody -- yeah, call me a small minority, but it seems to me to be an honest - basic car and a Stang. Not sure I am totally into this retro - replica era thing or not. I wanted a fresh car, I guess. The new one is very good in many a way. And if you were not around to see the original, or want to relive the original years, I guess it is a way to do that. But I have been there - done that. ;) In the Stang line, I think perhaps the 2004, is a good thing. Reliable, simple, less expensive.

    Now when they are working on the New Camaro, I hope they consider the size and weight, price and gas mileage. Seems like the show car was too wide, and well too much. Trim down the size and weight, so it handles well, a V6 will power it, and it get decent gas mileage. And please no electric assist steering.
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Did I see the buy a Lucerne and they throw in a Malibu sale?
    ....
    ..
    .
    :D
    Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    LOL, that's what I'm afraid of. Dodge will probably throw in a Demo Neon :D

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Loren, you need to test drive a G6 GTP Coupe. I do think you you could get a good deal on one. Hey they even got a 6-speed manuel for good gas mileage. The G6 GTX will be a hot seller with it's 270 hp. You could always try to get a Saturn Redline Sky. Now thats a nice ride :shades: I'd personally probably would be a bit to big for one though. ;) I almost baught a 00' Monte SS when they were new. How about a used Eldorado ETC coupe ? The Acura RSX Tpye-S isn't selling so well and it might be affordable new ? I know I'd love to have one for a work car and for just cruising round town. I suppose I could get a left over and turn it into a fast and furious car ? :P I met a guy in Amarillo, that had a Black RSX Type-S that he claims he runs 11's in the Quarter Mile :surprise:

    To many choices, eh ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Jeep Parkway factory in Toledo is the nation's longest operating auto plant. Factory construction began in 1910.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060627/AUTO01/606270367/- 1148

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060626/AUTO02/606260309/- 1148/AUTO01

    This is a great article and I actually agree with this journalist for once. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    GM to roll out 0% deal today

    Well for now 0% might :confuse:

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006606270429

    Rocky

    P.S.

    I guess it's better than Chyrslers "employee discount" program that will leave many buyers before the incentive upside down. :surprise:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

    On CNN, some analysts are saying more than they anticipated and GM is going to be struggling to have enough workers fill the void at some plants. :surprise:

    Rocky

    P.S. we've made 6500 posts :blush:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Even if I can't fix the car myself, I'll diagnose the problem to ensure the mechanic/technician isn't ripping me off.

    What's a reasonable time for things to last? Well, it depends on where you are. I live in the city, so I expect my brakes to wear out a lot faster than if I lived in a rural area. If you get a lot of snow and the road crews use lots of salt, I'd pay particular attention to wheel wells, body panels, and suspension parts that would be susceptible to corrosion.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That is one thing I do like about domestic cars is many of them have double galvanized steel which lasts alot longer than ordinary steel. ;)

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    If only I was STUPID enough to finance a car for 72 months - even at 0%. You are going to be upside down for a long time.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Now that is true. Pop on over to the Cadillac forum, I left ya a good article to read.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Pretty soon we'll have interest only loans on automobiles.... :P

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Come on down to the Cherry Hill Triplex for our new interest-only A.R.M. on new Kias and Mitsubishis!!! Bad Credit? No Credit? Bankruptcy? Illegal Alien? War Criminal? No Problem!!! $9.00 Down!!! $9.99 a month!!! What are you waiting for?

    Paymentsbasedon5000month50%interestonlyqualifiedidiotsapprovedpricedoesnotinclud- etheforfeitureofallyourassetsyoureternalsoulandthatofyourchildren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    It's really to bad that Cadillacs have gotten so expensive. I never could imagine them crossing into the $60K territory. It used to be that a middle class person that had a good job, could afford such a luxury. Now you have to be upper middle to own one I guess except for a CTS and DTS :sick:

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    That's what makes Buick look so good to me these days. Well, I still have my eye on the DTS. If that new CTS is as awesome as I imagine, I would definately consider one.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    ROTFLMAO :cry: <-laughter. :D I needed a good laugh.

    Thanx pal ;)

    Lemko, are you still looking for a new vehicle ? I'd personally would wait for the 07's. Would you or you G/F consider a 08' CTS ???? I'm not sure when it's coming out for sure but some are claiming this January on forums on the net. I'm praying lemko, this could be the new car that GM built that I finally want to own. I want to support "The General" very badly. I'm still probably going to buy Grandma's 02' Aurora within' the next month. If the CTS is good enough I might pony up and get me one. I don't want to regret it when the 500 or 600 horsepowered CTS Super V comes out though. :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Wow we have brain waves matching (CTS) talk ;) lol !!!! :D

    So that's cool you would consider a CTS :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Now that vehicle with a V-8 might be interesting. I think my personal preference will be the CTS, assuming it will have enough bells and whistles, with excellent handling and acceleration to satisfy my appetite. I can't get me a 2 seater sports car (kids) so the sport/lux sedan is and will be at the top of my list. ;)

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...a new CTS - if I paid for it. She's still happy with her LaCrosse. Heck, my 2002 Seville STS has a lot of life left in it. It would take a really awesome car to get me to part with it - something like a RWD or AWD Cadillac DTS with a Lexus quality interior and priced around $40K or less.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Had a 2005 CTS 2.8 V-6 for a loaner car last August. This was the plain jane CTS and it had almost as many features as my 2002 Seville STS. I imagine the new CTS will be much nicer, even in the plain jane trim. Fuel economy is definately a bonus. Did you ever see the pictures of the Buick Enclave? I don't care much for SUVs, but that interior is awesome. They should put that kind of effort into the LaCrosse. A LaCrosse Super with V-8 and an Enclave-esque interior would certainly capture my attention. If Buick indeed DOES do the LaCrosse Super, I'd like to see a NASCAR race car. I miss the days of Bobby Allison and his Regal. Did you ever see pictures of the Camry race car? Some are over on Autoweek.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That's the the thing that's killing me pal. The new DTS is pretty darn expensive. OTOH I haven't priced a used one up yet to see what the residuals are like. yeah I couldn't see myself parting with your 02' STS either. I had one as you know and yes they are nice.

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, if the DTS is too expensive, nvbanker was telling me they are selling new Lincoln Town Cars in Nevada for only $30K. I doubt I could get them that cheap in Philly.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yeah I've followed the Enclave very closely lemko. There isn't much about General Motors new products that I miss. The Enclave concept interior is indeed very nice. I just hope the bean counters at GM don't cost cut it and charge a few more dollars to keep it class leading like the concept. I doubt we will ever see a buick NASCAR :(

    I haven't seen the appliance NASCAR and it's ashame that Toyota would use this car to represent the company. It has no muscle car heritage to belong on the track IMO.
    I haven't followed NASCAR to close since Dale Earnhardt died. I wrote a reply on the Detroit Free Press column about GM and it's buyouts. I'll have to check the Autoweek site to see the Camry NASCAR. :surprise:

    Hopefully lemko, the CTS will atleast deliver the goods this go around. It needs to be more than just a fancy interior, but rather a car that features the latest innovations that technology has to offer.

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I never could imagine them crossing into the $60K territory. It used to be that a middle class person that had a good job, could afford such a luxury.

    The guys who spent their days building Bel Airs and Star Chiefs weren't driving home from the plant in Fleetwoods. Cadillacs were cars for the wealthy until GM's ineptitude homogenized them into pseudo-luxury corporatemobiles in the '80s and '90s, and destroyed their cachet in the process.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I had a Town Car for a loaner a few years back and couldn't believe how much nicer STS was then that. I personally hated it. It was slow, and to "floaty" for my taste. I realized how nice it was to have magneride technology as my suspension. :shades: I also realized after that experience how much nicer the "fit and finish" was on my Caddy and I couldn't wait until my STS was fixed. The heated seats cushions needed to be replaced.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I disagree with you on that one pal. One that built Bel Airs and Star Chiefs could afford a Cadillac if his/her spouse worked. My grandfather was able to.

    Rocky

    P.S. The 80's Cadillacs were yuck, but in the early 90's they were "the standard of the world" for a few years. ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I saw the Toyota Camry Nascar pic on CNN. I couldn't find it on the Autoweek site. Neways I do like the Enclave story on Autoweek and they are confirming the production model will lack a few unique features like the rear wood tabels that would come handy on trips :mad: I hate when people like Bob Lutz come up with the perfect concept and then cost cut the heck out of it to the point where you ask
    "am I really getting the best value for my dollar" ???? This mentality needs to disappear at GM if they want to survive and some of those key features are going to be items customers might of liked enough to buy it in the first place :sick:

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Did he have that Cadillac when he was your age, or when he was old and had socked away enough money for it?

    As for early '90s Cadillacs, they were only the Standard of the World where "the world" consisted of Detroit and its environs. Anywhere outside of there, a Cadillac could be easily shamed by any Mercedes or BMW, or by an LS400 or Q45.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Did he have that Cadillac when he was your age, or when he was old and had socked away enough money for it?

    My grandfather has always had nice vehicles. He had his late seventies Cadillac when I was like 2 yrs. old. He baught her new and my grandma has photo's of me in front of it on our way out to see my Great Aunt in Boise Idaho. He would of been in his mid 40's then.

    As for early '90s Cadillacs, they were only the Standard of the World where "the world" consisted of Detroit and its environs.

    What are you talking about ? The New Seville in 1992' had the most advanced engine to date called Northstar derived from the (ZR-1 Corvette LT-5) and the Seville, had every premium item to date. I believe it was Motor Trend car of the year (if my memory is working right) and Motor Trend said something to the fact that the "Standard of the World" has returned to Cadillac.

    Anywhere outside of there, a Cadillac could be easily shamed by any Mercedes or BMW, or by an LS400 or Q45.

    Those vehicles you mentioned weren't even icons yet in the early 90's. They also had quality and electronic nannies that didn't get worked out until the mid-late 90's. BMW in the early 90's was far from the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and it wasn't until the 95' E36 M3 arrived when BMW got it's street cred. :P

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...people forget that early Lexus LS400s had problems with their power steering pumps and electroluminescent instrument panels - small problems, but Lexi weren't the paragons of automotive perfection everybody makes them out to be. The Q45 is a forgotten footnote and early '90s German luxury cars are today's used car white elephants. I had a 1994 Cadillac Sedan DeVille and the car gave me eight trouble-free years and 96K+ miles. When I traded my car in 2002 for a new Seville STS, my old car was sold to a neighbor of a co-worker in less than a week - a testament to the car's condition, durability, and quality.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I don't think that the northstar design was based on the ZR-1 Corvette engine. The ZR-1 was a fairly complex DOHC engine with double intake manifolds to each cylinder and double fuel injectors.

    "Standard of the World" was meaningful in the early days of the autoindustry and by the 1950's was a meaningless advertising scheme.

    In the 80's BMW was recognized as the "sports sedan" builder and BMW's became the "got to have one" kind of car. In fact Automobile's chief editor, Lindamood, liked the BMW 2002 series.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...the "got to have" car in the 1980s, but they always seemed pretty fragile to me. I remember a guy who had a new 5-Series in 1989 who was always have one issue after another with his car. Oh, the car was a dream to drive - when it ran properly. Mercedes, on the other hand, seemed very reliable and durable, especially the S-Class. I didn't care for their crappy Becker radios. GM's Delco units seemed far superior.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That's exactly right. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Northstar technology was derived from the LT-5 ZR-1. My family helped work on the project pal. BMW in the 80's was a joke. Mercedes like lemko said were nice and actually pretty reliable in those days. Audi was the king of sport/lux sedans in the late 80's and early 90's with the A 200 Quattro and first S4 I think in 93'. However Cadillac and Mercedes were in a league of there own as far as quality and reliability went. BMW had it's fair share of quality problems ;)

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,753
    > "got to have one" kind of car.

    I had tires of that same kind back in the 80s. Their ad was "One day you'll own Generals." I had one set on a new car I bought and they were the worst for problems and quality; so I agreed that it was only going to be _one_ day that I'd own that brand and only ONE time. Swore I'd never buy them again.

    Same held true for th BMWs of that era unless you were a complete devotee and willing to put up with all the quirks and financial requirements for owning one.

    Recently I rode to Cinci a couple of times in an x3, and I wasn't as impressed by ride, engine noise, and finish as I thought I would have been. Five-speed auto seemed to shift strangely for the driver also. But the owner seemed happy with the car.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The New Seville in 1992' had the most advanced engine to date called Northstar derived from the (ZR-1 Corvette LT-5) and the Seville, had every premium item to date.

    Sorry, but the Q45 had more hp three years before the Northstar hit the street (and had variable valve timing a decade before Cadillac did, and rear steering for 1991 which Cadillac still doesn't have).

    I believe it was Motor Trend car of the year (if my memory is working right) and Motor Trend said something to the fact that the "Standard of the World" has returned to Cadillac.

    The Seville was for 1992 (between the Caprice and Probe :surprise: ), only because they still had an "Import Car of the Year" award, which the SC400 took that year.

    They also had quality and electronic nannies that didn't get worked out until the mid-late 90's.

    True, but Cadillac was hardly immune from that. The early Northstars were notorious oil eaters.

    BMW in the early 90's was far from the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and it wasn't until the 95' E36 M3 arrived when BMW got it's street cred.

    Actually, they were focused driving machines even then. They just didn't flog it in their advertising until later on in the decade.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Sorry, but the Q45 had more hp three years before the Northstar hit the street (and had variable valve timing a decade before Cadillac did, and rear steering for 1991 which Cadillac still doesn't have).


    What are you talking about more horsepower ? The Q45 didn't make 295 hp. like the Northstar. It made 278 hp. :confuse:

    Yeah it had rear steering which I'm a fan of but it also had problems with the technology just like Dodge and Mitsubishi. They do got it down now though. ;) Yeah it had VVT, but what good is that when the Caddy is zooming by you and getting better fuel economy ? :P Buddy had a Q45 and we drag raced pal. You already should know the results. :P

    The Seville was for 1992 (between the Caprice and Probe ), only because they still had an "Import Car of the Year" award, which the SC400 took that year.

    I'll give Lexus it's props on the import car of the year award. The SC 400 was nice.

    True, but Cadillac was hardly immune from that. The early Northstars were notorious oil eaters. Yeah some had some engine problems like eating oil and head gaskets. Thankfully these problems were pretty much non-existent on the 95+ years. ;)

    Actually, they were focused driving machines even then. They just didn't flog it in their advertising until later on in the decade.

    What BMW was a driving machine in the 80 and early 90's ???? I remember as a kid the car to have was a Audi Quattro A 200 and latter a S4. Not until BMW came up with the E36 M3 that they took the crown as "ultimate driving machine" which appears they are going to lose very soon with all these new models from it's competitors. ;)

    Even the BMW biased gear heads at Motor Trend took notice. :P

    Rocky
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    It's really to bad that Cadillacs have gotten so expensive. I never could imagine them crossing into the $60K territory. It used to be that a middle class person that had a good job, could afford such a luxury. Now you have to be upper middle to own one I guess except for a CTS and DTS

    The optimal solution is to buy a couple of years used or better yet, wait one year and a couple of months and get a three year old Buick Lucerne CXS. :)

    Drives like a Cadillac. Costs a whole lot less. I can live without the interior and bling, considering the car won't even cost me $20K.

    "GM: Best used cars in the industry"
    Not exactly the slogan GM is looking for, but as a consumer, their problems mean a factory-certified car at silly low prices every time.

    I have an idea - how about we come up with a few slogans for GM's marketing people to use to explain this fact of life? ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Your not funny, even though it's true. :P

    Rocky
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    The optimal solution is to buy a couple of years used or better yet, wait one year and a couple of months and get a three year old Buick Lucerne CXS.

    Drives like a Cadillac. Costs a whole lot less. I can live without the interior and bling, considering the car won't even cost me $20K.


    Drives like a Cadillac might not be a good trait.

    August iss of CR talked about clumsy handling, poor braking of Caddy DTS. There were other issues such as tilt steering wheel tilting in coarse increments and no telescope feature. Seats lacked support for long trips. And, on and on.

    GM and Cadillac still don't get it. Upstart Hyundai Azera rates higher with better product. So did Ford 500. DTS did beat out 9 other tested models, 8 being US brands and the other a KIA.

    In large sedan test by CR, Avalon (33K) was first, Azera (30K) was second, Ford 500 (27K) was third and DTS (47K) was fourth. Lucerne (30K) was tenth.

    Seems like best buys are Azera, Ford and Avalon. Why wait for a used DTS (or Lucerne) for a year or two when you can have a better performing and better quality brand new car such as Avalon or Azera right now for a reasonable purchase price.

    Think that there might have been some prestige about owning/aspiring to a Caddy many decades ago from what I hear from relatives. But, not today, except for maybe some golden seniors in their 80's. Think that most people today are more conscious of value and reliability, are better informed and keep open minds.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    What are you talking about more horsepower ? The Q45 didn't make 295 hp. like the Northstar. It made 278 hp.

    Naah, that was the "official" rating thanks to the Japanese horsepower limitation of the time. Nissan never bothered to rerate it for the US market. The original VH45DE put out right around 300hp in stock trim.

    Buddy had a Q45 and we drag raced pal. You already should know the results.

    What year and what did you run him with? The early Q's had that dumb 2nd-gear start which killed the 0-60 time, and the later Cima-based Q only had a 4.1L V8 and was about a second slower than the President-based Q.

    What BMW was a driving machine in the 80 and early 90's ????

    All of 'em (except that goofy 318 hatchback). They just didn't have the horsepower to put the fear of God into anybody before the mid-90s.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    GM Buyouts

    Looks as though GM has more buyouts than it though it would, at a faster pace.

    Sorry if this is off-topic. But am wondering now that GM has these buyouts, will this allow them to right the ship, or are they turning right into an iceberg. :confuse:
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Then there is Chevy: " An American Evolution."
    -Loren
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    Where I live in the snooty suburbs of a large East Coast city, Cadillacs are still not "cool"- they would think I lost my mind if I bought one. Somehow a used Lexus/BMW/Mercedes could be cool, a Cadillac old fuddy duddy- and the CTS should be able to break that mold, but I haven't seen it done yet. And Buick is really geriatric, Pontiac/GMC/Chevrolet still considered redneck/white trash. The imagemakers of Acura/Lexus/Infinity should be commended, they certainly have seized the high ground.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,753
    >The imagemakers of Acura/Lexus/Infinity should be commended, they certainly have seized the high ground.

    Very true statement.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,799
    I live in a snooty suburb of a large(ish) west coast city, and it is EXACTLY the same here. The coasts really are different, as I suspect these images are not the same in the so-called heartland.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Quality is not the point. Design was.
    If your family worked for the Powertrain division, then they may have worked on the northstar. However, I think the northstar was not based on any previous design, but rather was an all new design based on the collective abilities that the Powertrain engineers had. Certainly previous engine designs were influential.
This discussion has been closed.

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