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2004-2009 Toyota Prius Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • scottphillipscottphillip Posts: 249
    My closest dealership, Daytona Toyota, is currently charging $5,500 over sticker--not including the dealer fees. There is a waiting list too! There is an incoming package 6 with an asking price of just over $40,000. :mad:

    Just think of all the gas one could buy with $5,500.
  • ctsactsa Posts: 6
    That is insane. I can't believe people are paying that much for this car. Yeah, it will save you some money in gas...but so will a Honda Civic. I guess there are some very stupid people down there who are in a feeding frenzy of sorts and have lost sight of the entire point...saving money. Ridiculous.
  • oldcoacholdcoach Posts: 28
    Unreal it is one great car but not 5000 over MRSP. :mad: :mad: I just bought a Prius with packages and #2 option for 23909, which was MSRP. Seems like I got a good deal compared to what others are paying. :) :)
  • gadriver4gadriver4 Posts: 15
    Have you tried Jax? They have lots of dealerships. Or Orlando? We're not finding any on the lots but are getting them at MSRP here in Atlanta area. Good luck!
  • nwdirectornwdirector Posts: 2
    Long time lurker here. I just want some thoughts.

    A dealer just offered me a package 3 for 24786+ttl. Since then, she says they are now charging MSRP (25839), plus the price increase last week. However, she is going to honor the earlier price when I give the deposit tomorrow. I'm taking it because of the absurd demand now (I've wanted one for years, but wasn't in a position to make it happen until now...just my luck!). It's still an order, so there is a chance I might just get a 2009 at this point, but for the price, I'm happy. Thoughts?
  • hairgalhairgal Posts: 24
    Just purchased mine yesterday..no waiting..my salesman had been looking for me an 07 and he got in on 08..actually paid less for the 08 than the 07 was priced in Oklahoma city. I did a deposit over the phone and was glad I did..there were like 3 people waiting to buy ti when I got the the dealrship.

    I did pay sticker..25,960..base plus leather upgrade and another package 1300 for mats and other things plus 329 for extra sealant and something sprayed underneath to make it quiter..

    So far Im super happy, I gave alot of thought to other cars and incentitives but with gas increasing everyday, I cant imagine buying anything else.
  • gadriver4gadriver4 Posts: 15
    Congrats on your purchase. We just brought ours home today. We ended up paying $500 over MSRP ($24,700+$500). We got a base w/various accessories (mats, alloys, cruise control, rear bumper guard, mudflaps, etc.). We also purchased after market leather for $1,200 (instead of $1,500?) but no warranty. We purchased from Legacy Toyota in Union City.
  • Just purchased a Black 2008 this morning with Package 6. Got it from the brand new Warrenton Toyota which opened today. We were their first ever customer. Paid only MSRP! Awesome dealership. Very modern. Nicest people I have ever dealt with on a car purchase. Absolute best buying experience ever!
  • sharon22sharon22 Posts: 28
    Congratulations!!!! I know you're having a great day learning about all of the features. Got to see a Seaside Pearl this morning while running errands and liked it so have decided to accept it on June 10th instead of waiting for the Silver Pine Mica. Will post details then.
  • hairgalhairgal Posts: 24
    interstingly I just checked and the pop up on MSRP says that the delivery, processing and handling charges is included..On my charge sheet it says i was charged an additional 715 for DPH..anyone have this happen to them?
  • nwdirectornwdirector Posts: 2
    OK, so not so happy. I went to the dealer ready to hand over my deposit and place my order. Upon arriving, I was promptly passed off to someone else instead of my internet contact (strike one!). Then, I'm presented with the price sheet...$600 more than our agreed price (strike two!). "Toyota just raised the price!" I know this, which is why I asked if my first quote was still valid! It was when I left my house, just not when I arrived! Ok, I can live with Toyota did it, so fine. Then, they add $700 in dealer and document fees. Did they forget to mention that to me before (strike three!)?!

    I walked out, but not before I got "aren't you still interested" and "this is the best deal around". Sure, 500 below MSRP is great, unless you add 700 in fees!

    I've found two dealers with lower fees that, while MSRP, is still less than this dealer.

    To top it off, the deposit was "non-refundable", even though many of you all have placed refundable deposits.

    Thanks for letting me vent. Back to waiting...
  • fromagefromage Posts: 4
    Toyota of Hollywood is charging 10K over sticker. Glendale is charging 5K over sticker. I got a call from Hollywood saying they had a "deal"- a non touring package 6 ready to go for only 36,500. Glendale can get me in a package 2 with leather added for only (only) 30,000.
    :mad:
    Is this the most insane of the insane Prius markets? Is it just gas prices? Will the frenzy die down? I was sure I wanted a Prius, but here in So. Cal it's not an "affordable" car anymore...sigh.
  • dcirishdcirish Posts: 1
    Wondering if anyone has a sense of why different dealers are giving different time frames of approximate delivery. One dealer is telling me 4 months, another only 2 months. Does Toyota make these cars available to the dealers via some sort of priority system, where some dealers will in fact deliver sooner than others?
  • gadriver4gadriver4 Posts: 15
    Sorry which pop up? When you design your own at toyota.com or when you search inventory? When I saw my Prius (just got it yesterday) on inventory at my dealership it listed "Base" "Options" "Manuf DPH" "Subtotal" "Dealer Fees" then "Total". Does that help &/or make sense?
  • sharon22sharon22 Posts: 28
    Did you purchase pkg. 2? It was listing for $575. Also, one other question, did you pay $660 destination charge? Edmunds was also showing $618 and a $55 "southeastern" charges. Don't understand what those are. Were they added to your invoice charges? I'll be picking mine up next week and don't want any financial surprises. Thanks!
  • hairgalhairgal Posts: 24
    On the Toyota.com page there is a page that says the destinations charges are figured into the MSRP, it states that the average charge for that is around 715 to 765, but it is already figured into the MSRP I have purchased other new cars in Oklahoma and there is always a destination charge..my car was a base with a leather upgrade and another package ..the way it is listed is the MSRP is the base 22,215 and the distuburtor charges are the options and this destination charge..bringing the total to 25,980..Im just wondering since the charge was the same as what Toyota says is included..and I dont understand why the MSRP does not include the options.
  • oldcoacholdcoach Posts: 28
    I just got my Magnetic Gray Prius , With packages , #2 option and floor mats as follows. MSRP 22,475 Options #2 1,175.00 Mats 199.00 Delivery Charges 660.00 Total 24,509.00 Extra Value Package Discount 600.00 For a total of 23,909.00 This came off my sticker. Hope it will help.
  • oldcoacholdcoach Posts: 28
    They must have changed the price on Optin #2 from 575 to 1175 and then gave a discount of 600 to make it come out to 575. Still the MSRP is what I all ready got of 23,909.
  • sharon22sharon22 Posts: 28
    oldcoach - Thank you. Your invoice breakdown does help. I was surprised that pkg. 2 was shown as $1,175 since edmunds shows it at $575, but then if you got a $600 discount, it's the same. My $23,799 (pkg. 2 and $660 dest.) isn't including carpet mats. Last question - IF you are in the southeast, were you charged any admin. fees of $618 and $55? Thank you!
  • oldcoacholdcoach Posts: 28
    No I am in Ohio... Never heared of ad. fees. Did get charged 250 for state fees. Called doctmentary fees. so it was MSRP & Doc. fees & Sales Tax. :mad: :mad:
  • hairgalhairgal Posts: 24
    HELP..Im trying to make sense of my sticker and it just doesnt seem to match what everyone is saying..

    here is the breakdown

    MSRP 22,475
    delivery, processing and handling fee..715.00
    DISTRIBUTOR (GULF STATES toyota<inc) SUGGESTED RETAIL 23,190

    DISTRIBUTOR INSTALLED OPTIONS......LEATHER UPGRADE......1349.
    eXTRA MILE OPTION PACKAGE 2 1092
    vehcile shield package 349

    Total distributor suggested retail price........................................25,980

    My question to everyone is when I run the price on toyota. com it comes out to 25,005.

    WHy is it different than what is posted on Toyota?

    Thanks any idea
  • hairgalhairgal Posts: 24
    Was your leather included in the 25,100 or was that in addition..Im sorry I think you are saying it was in addition too..just wondering.
  • hairgalhairgal Posts: 24
    Thanks to all who replied..I cant find the post I made about the double delivery fees but the answer was correct..thank you for the info..guess they are going to get us one way or the other. I still paid only 1,000 more than the 07 was selling for...so I should not complain..Have a beautiful day..
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    A lot of these posts are getting bogged down in reasoning out the dealer fees-- undercoating, prep, delivery, handling, Martian beeswax, blessing by the local justice of the peace, Tahitian vacation fund . . . you get the drift. I suggest you just concentrate on the OTD price or the total before sales tax is added.

    Ex: 08Prius#6, including mats, $29,000 OTD (including sales tax of X%).

    Here's a deal from back in October:
    08PriusTouring#6, sliver pine mica, mats, $1100 6year/100k extended platinum warranty, $30,000.00 OTD (included 7.75% sales tax). Touring model was valued at about +$500.

    You should decide exactly what your OTD price is for the car you want, equipped exactly as you want down to the final detail, including color, and ask the salesperson what the price is for that car. They might not have that car so you might have to redo your figures a bit. Just keep telling him/her that they're gonna have to do better until they reach your price. Try not to give them your price. But inevitably they'll ask you, "Well, Mr./Ms. Prospect, what would you like to offer?" Say, "I saw exactly the same car go out the door for XXX (say an amount slightly below what you'll pay) amount at another dealer in XXX. How much can you beat that deal by?"
    It's just a dance. You'll never get the deal you want unless you do your OTD pricing homework AND are prepared to walk on the deal. Deal only in OTD pricing, otherwise known, literally, as the bottom line. Then we're all talking apples to apples, at least on a state-by-state comparison.
  • hairgalhairgal Posts: 24
    Not sure if you have noticed but we are talking about Prius..there isnt any bargaining going on..pretty much sticker. I have bought 8 brand new cars in my life, have bargained with the best of them.. In addition to personal vehicles we own a farm and have purchased farm trucks , everything from little ford rangers to semis to haul equipment on..experienced shopper here..just not familar with Toyota..

    l..I think the questions here have been valid..In my case the disturbutor, Gulf State, added 715.00..honestly when I priced the car, the price was cheaper option wise than the 07 I had just priced so I did not check the sticker until later..that is when I caught the addition..apparently it is just tthe way it is in our part of the country.

    And whatever knowledge we are gaining here, we can use on our next purchase..that is if we can afford to ever buy again..smile..

    Also what sales tax are you talking about..in Oklahoma we dont pay sales tax at the dealership..there is tag, tax and title we pay at the tax agency.
  • gadriver4gadriver4 Posts: 15
    Hey I have my paperwork in front of me now so here's the breakdown....

    "base price" - $26,454 (which is MSRP $24,700 (incl delivery fee & options) +added leather $1,200+$500&not sure where the other $54 came from)
    "customer service fee" - $599
    "GA sales tax @ 6%" - $1,623.18
    "GA title fee" - $19
    "GA Warranty rts fee" - $3
    TOTAL - $28,698.18
  • gadriver4gadriver4 Posts: 15
    hairgal - leather was ontop of the $25,100 b/c we haven't installed leather yet.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Posts: 531
    The dealer here has decided to only sell to customers who put down a $1,000 deposit. If you don't pay they will not call you even if one comes it. They claim a 3-6 month waiting list and MSRP with high doc fees and claim you are lucky to even be able to buy one. It's insane. I would have bought one but it's that feeding frenzy that the dealers love to see. I'm not going to buy a Prius until the full redesign. Maybe by then supply will have caught up with demand. Turns me off from Toyota the way the dealers are handling the situation just because of high gas prices. :mad:
  • sharon22sharon22 Posts: 28
    bob104 - I agree with you. I may have gotten a bit "off-topic" myself and will remember to be detailed about my pricing when I pick up my car next week.

    gadriver4 - Thank you very much. Your pricing details are especially helpful to me since we're both in the state of GA. Only question, which option pkg. did you get? Pkg. 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6?

    hairgirl - In the state of GA, we pay a sales tax on all purchases. It can be anywhere from 6% to 8% depending on which county you reside in.
  • noahcnoahc Posts: 1
    dealers get vehicles allocated depending on how many of those models were sold after the previous allocation period. Despite this with the Prius I would say that any dealer is just estimating an arrival time and because of the shortage allocations are very screwy.
  • gadriver4gadriver4 Posts: 15
    We didn't get a package - we got the following...
    $199 - mats
    $275 - tint
    $129 - rear bumper protector
    $129 - splash guards
    $250 - cruise control
    $699 - our fav :sarcasm here: - toyoguard plus protection
    $34 - fuel surcharge

    Didn't seriously look for Prius until Sun (May 25th) so we didn't pick anything & got stuck w/the $699 junk. Also need to clarify - warn you we also were charged $575 for dealer's deliver fees (this is ontop of the $715 manuf delivery fees!) which was added into MSRP that I gave you already @ $24,700. Hope this helps/makes sense? I just don't think we can neg anything on any hybrid rt now. Much different to purchasing our Avalon last yr.
  • sharon22sharon22 Posts: 28
    gadriver4 - Thank you so much for being so detailed regarding price paid. I feel much better going in next week when I pick mine up. You're lucky your county sales tax was 6% -- mine is 7%. Can't complain though -- at least my dealer is not charging greed fees (my terminology) on top of MSRP -- not yet!
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    ""customer service fee" - $599 "????

    That's a new one! What area of the country are you in?
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    You should have waited until May 30th 30-45 minutes before closing time. You would have gotten a good deal or shown the door rather quickly. Everything is negotiable, even Prius.
    Mack
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    reference #1556
    If you go the the pricing configurator at edmunds.com you'll find that the mats are legitimate, but the tint, the splash guards, possibly the cruise control (included in the Base and Touring models), the Toyoguard and the fuel surcharge are iffy at best. The rear bumper applique should be $69, not $129. The dealer has bumped you up about $1200-1400. Delivery or destination charge of about $600 is legitimate. So are the actual costs of TTL, Tax/Tag/License, but make sure that these are the applicable state charges, not dealer add-ons.
    Is $1400 over what the configurator calculates what people are paying? Ouch.
  • fromagefromage Posts: 4
    bob104, there is no dance on the Prius in Southern California. You can research the sticker and invoice all you like and the car will still go for what someone will pay, which in LA is 5 to 10K above sticker.

    Example: Your 30K Touring with pkg 6 is going for 35,500 plus and I am seeing people pay it.
    Example: Walk into a Toyota dealer and they will tell you you can have a Prius, please tell them the options you want, here is your price, the waiting period, and how much of a deposit they want. Waltz out the door and they will NOT call you because "your" car will sell as soon as it arrives if not pre-sold.

    I am most likely buying a Lexus RX400h and that dance is a relatively normal dance on a hot car- I am paying a few hundred over invoice. If I go down to the non-hybrid version, now I have the dealer chasing after me when I walk out and I actually get rebates etc. etc.

    Now Bob, if you can get me the Touring 6 in the magnetic gray, black, or silver for 30K including tax, in So Cal, today, I will happily pay YOU!
  • gadriver4gadriver4 Posts: 15
    mackabee
    "customer service fee" - $599 is just another name for dealer fees (I'm in the SE).
    I'm sorry but I've neg cars before (Avalon last yr for $27,800 + taxes & did not pay dealer fees, etc. down from MSRP $32,300) but the Prius is not neg rt now. What price did you neg on a Prius in the last few wks? If I'd waited until May 30th/31st the car wouldn't have been available - period.

    bob104
    Yes, I know how to configure exactly what the options really cost but like I said above to mackabee there's just no neg on a Prius rt now. Although I'd prefer not to I'm "okay" w/paying $1,400 over configurator calculator when that's what I would've pd in fuel in my old car in 2.5 mos. I'll also be reimbursed $3k from my employer through their hybrid reimbursement program which was also a deciding factor in purchasing this Prius now at $500 above MSRP.
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    OK. I think I'm getting the picture--it's desperation time. It's like how much would you pay for a gallon of water in the middle of the Sahara. But the point is to not get bogged down in whether the water salesman adds a surcharge, a delivery charge, a refundable water vessel charge, etc. I like the info you've provided, that an 08Touring#6/mats is going OTD for about $6500 more than I paid for mine in Oct., about $4500 more than edmunds.com configures it currently.
    . . . more like a water auction in the middle of the Sahara.

    A couple of off-topic suggestions, not universally applicable:
    Toyota is said to be offering the iQ in January. 70hp conventional, seats 3 adults + 1 child, maybe $12,000 MSRP if you can get it, should get slightly better hwy mileage than the Prius.
    Honda is said to be preparing a 5-door hybrid for January (hopefully, the Fit with the Insight drivetrain or similar 70 hp output).
    Yaris and Fit will get you low-mid 30s compared to the Prius' 44mpg. That's about 100 gallons more per 12,000 miles. They should retain their values well. If you drive mostly smooth highway speed they should get low 40s compared to the Prius' 50 mpg, making an Figures from Consumer Reports. For 12,000 miles pure hwy the Yaris Base only uses 30 gallons more than the Prius base. Sounds like you can buy it for $10,000 less than a comparable Prius.

    Fuel economy comparisons, Consumer Reports:

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/most-fuelefficien- t-cars-206/index.htm

    Also, I ride/pedal my power-assist (electric bike) in place of my car about 100 miles a week. They are legally classified as bicycles. There are dozens of models available, most of which will take you along at about 20 mph with little or no pedaling. Saves money, no need for a gym membership if you pedal moderately, no hill too steep, not sweaty, etc.
    For expert consultation there is a good yahoo group called power assist.
  • sharon22sharon22 Posts: 28
    Picked up my Seaside Pearl last night. Due in on June 10th, but arrived early. Here's the breakdown:

    Base - $22,875
    Option #2 - $1,175 (Toyota and Edmunds shows this as $575; don't know why on Monroney sticker it's $600 higher BUT then it shows a $600 MSRP discount on the bottom of the sticker)
    Carpet Mats - $225
    DPH Fee - $715
    Fuel - $34
    Total OTD - $24,424 (not incl. Dealer Admin. Fee and TTL)

    In GA, dealer fees can be anywhere from $299 (mine) and $699. It all depends on the dealer. Title was $18, Lemon Law fee $3 and then, of course, sales tax.

    I did NOT have to pay for the $700 Toyoguard Protection Plan since I specifically requested my car without it on April 26th. This is extremely rare in the Southeast territory. It actually costs the dealers $200!

    Although none of us like paying MSRP as we all can see what invoice is and Edmunds TMV pricing, KBB, etc., I am pleased that I got my Prius configured exactly the way I wanted it, it took less than 6 weeks to arrive and there were no "greed" fees added by my dealer.

    Good luck to all of you who are still waiting!!
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,799
    So, yours was a custom order and it took less than 6 weeks?

    Boy, they do get you on those carpet mats though.
  • sharon22sharon22 Posts: 28
    carnaught - I don't know if you would really call it a "custom" order; actually, it's really just getting on the waiting list (I was number 6) and telling them exactly what I wanted. I did not want "extras" added at port. It's very difficult to find a Prius configured with ONLY pkg. 2 and carpet mats. Most buyers want all the bells and whistles.

    I used a smaller dealer outside of the metro-Atlanta area (Heyward Allen in Athens, GA) 100 miles from my home and did accept a different color than my first 2 choices. The color choice really suits me.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,799
    carnaught - I don't know if you would really call it a "custom" order; actually, it's really just getting on the waiting list (I was number 6) and telling them exactly what I wanted. I did not want "extras" added at port. It's very difficult to find a Prius configured with ONLY pkg. 2 and carpet mats. Most buyers want all the bells and whistles.

    Got it. You didn't "order" the car specifically built for you to your specifications. Your's was more of a wish list of things on a waiting list.
  • fromagefromage Posts: 4
    Thanks, Bob104!

    I am too impatient & I paid a premium today to get what I want, but it was worth it....got a non touring package 2 but with all leather and heated seats put in at dealer, and it was just about 30K. I paid about $3,000 upcharge in the end to get the color I wanted (magnetic gray) with no wait and I am thrilled..as soon as the seats are done it will be in my driveway. Maybe tomorrow......

    I would not advise anyone buying from Toyota of Glendale, even though I did, as the salesguy was intent upon hosing me even worse than I was willing to be hosed :D and kept making up things which (thanks to forums like this) I knew were not true. One of those experiences where you want to take a shower afterwards- but who cares, I have the car.
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    fromage, All--
    I just got off the phone with the salesman who sold me my 08Touring#6 for $28,900 OTD in CA in Oct. Note, the Touring gets 2mpg less than the regular overall, 3 mpg less on the hwy. and added $500 to my negotiated price. I recommend staying with the regularPrius, thereby saving about $20 a month in fuel and fancy, wide tire wear costs.
    He told me that an 08regularPrius#6 goes for $28,284 plus TTL of about $2500 for a total of just under $31,000. The hitch is a 6week-6month wait. Best if you are color-flexible. The same car in Touring would be a bit under $31,500.

    I was totally satisfied with my experience at this dealership. (What has happened with this world that car salesmen are to be preferred in every way over flight attendants?):
    Toyota of Santa Maria (CA), 3 hours north of Los Angeles,
  • Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and am trying to decide between the Toyota Prius and the Corolla. In my opinion all the math points to the Corolla hands down. What did you factor in to make your decision in favor of the Prius?

    Here's what I came up with......

    The cheapest Toyota Prius I can find near me is $24,000. The EPA says the combined fuel economy is 46 miles per gallon. If I drive 12,000 miles per year that would mean I am using 260.87 gallons of gas. Even at a price of $5.00 per gallon my annual fuel cost is only $1304.35.

    The Corolla S model with way more options than the prius is about $17,000 and the EPA says is gets a combined 29 miles per gallon. That's 413.79 gallons at my assumed $5.00 per gallon which equals $2,068.95 annual fuel cost. This is $764.60 more per year than the Prius but am I REALLY SAVING ANY MONEY??? I don't think so....here's why.......

    The Prius is $24,000 vs. the Corolla's $17,000. If I financed them both for 60 months at 6% interest rate, I will have spent $27,839 on the Prius and only $19,719 on the Corolla. So the Prius actually costs $8,120 more to finance. I am saving $3,823 in gas money for the entire 5 years but if you subtract the gas savings from the financing debacle you are actually IN THE HOLE -$4,297.

    These numbers were assuming gas was $5.00 per gallon for the whole 5 years, who's to know. Also, I was putting both cars at 6% interest even though the Corolla actually has 2.9% financing available for 60 months through Toyota. That would skew the numbers even better in the Corolla's favor.

    So my question is...what made you guys buy the Prius? I'm not getting it.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,799
    So my question is...what made you guys buy the Prius? I'm not getting it.


    There are at least two possible answers. One is not having to visit your friendly gas station as often with the satisfaction of not supporting those belligerent oil producing nations as much. Another is that owning the Prius is more "green" friendly.
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    The short answer to your question, at least the one I would have given last year with gasoline under $3/gallon, is that Prius ownership is a cult. For many of us we are so invested in our auto-based lifestyle it's like we'll give up our cars when they pry the steering wheel from our cold, dead fingers.
    Personally, I'm an eco-snob and downplay my Prius ownership, instead boasting of the 100 miles a week I ride my 2000 mpg power-assist bike instead of driving my car. I have a bumper sticker on my bike, "F--k Prius drivers". I do love my Prius, though. Alas, we must all learn to live with paradox (smiling).
    ------------

    Back to your question, I've long argued the same thing, so I appreciate the mind you've put to this question. I'd love to buy a Prius with a 70 hp turbogasoline engine instead of the hybrid drivetrain for about $7,000? less. Especially since I drive long hwy stretches where the hybrid engineering (regen, Atkinson cycle, CVT, idle-stop, etc) has diminished advantage.

    But here are the two factors auguring toward the Prius, at least for typical 50/50 city/hwy drivers:
    1) Gasoline futures: An average gasoline price of $5/gallon over the next 5 years is shockingly optimistic. Gasoline could go to any price whatever in any time whatever. $10/gallon by next summer is by no means inconceivable. They pay that in Europe--why not here? I would think there is no doubt whatever that it will hit $10 within 5 years. So I would work the numbers using a variety of gasoline price assumptions. I bet you come up with a breakeven point of about $7.50/gallon average, just on the gasoline trade-off. And I would think that that is as good a guess as any.
    2) Depreciation: With gasoline going through the roof the Prius will be as good as gold in resale value. I can give a perfect example: In 2002 I bought a 19mpg 02Honda Odyssey for $33,000 OTD and a 29mpg 02Honda Civic EX for $16,000 OTD (got a bad deal on the Ody and a fantastic deal on the Civic as it was remainder. Who wanted a Civic with gasoline at $1.00/gallon?).
    Today the Civic is worth slightly more than the Ody, both about 10k.
    The difference between the Prius' 44realworld mpg and the Corolla's realworld mpg of 29-30mpg is the same proportion as the Ody to the Civic . . . .
    So I'd depreciate your hypothetical Corolla by 2/3-3/4 and the Prius by 1/4-1/3 over 60 months, as a trial assumption. The Corolla could lose $10-12k and the Prius might only lose $6k. That's pretty much your differential right there. Maybe worse. They may be scrapping Corollas, just like they're scrapping RVs now, who knows?

    BTW, for absolute spot-on real world mileage figures go to Consumer Reports. If you do a lot of smooth, steady hwy driving I'd opt for a Fit or Yaris over the Prius, unless you have your heart set on certain options not available in these models.

    Also, edmunds.com has a feature called TCO, True Cost to Own, for all models. You have to play with the assumptions a bit, but obviously you have the math to do so.

    Toyota is said to be offering the iQ in January. If they make it with their 1.0 liter, 70hp engine, it'll actually get slightly better mileage than the Prius on the highway, low 50s. I'd guess the overall mpg would be very close to Prius. Content yourself by looking up mileage figures for some Toyota models, the 1.0 liter Aygo for example, offered in England: toyota.uk.com. Remember an Imperial gallon is 1.2 times more gasoline than an American gallon. Seating 3 adults +1 child, the iQ is 2/3 the car, but about half the price of Prius, I'd guess.

    Eventually we'll have plug-in hybrid electrics with about a 40 mile all-electric range backed up by about a 40hp turbogasoline or turbodiesel engine good for 70-80 mph. They'll get the equivalent of 100 mpg. That'll be about the end of the line for conventional cars. By then you'll hardly ever see a car with fewer than 4 people riding in it. And there will be four bikes, some or all electric, hanging off the bike rack.

    Darn, I do go on. If you've read this far I appreciate your perserverance.
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    Here's the Consumer Reports fuel efficiency site. Spot-on accurate. Note the 2-3mpg difference between regular Prius and touringPrius. It's precisely correct. Note, they do think the safety difference with the Touring is worth the money. Prusa and I are vindicated! (Still wouldn't get it, though.)

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/most-fuelefficien- t-cars-206/index.htm
  • That's some good stuff. Especially the bike bumper sticker coming from a Prius owner.
    I will retort that NADA currently lists both the 2005 Prius and 2005 Corolla at almost exactly $4,000 less than their new MSRP. Also, when the electric hybrids come out won't the gas/electric hybrids also be obsolete? When the Core2 Duo processor was introduced, did it not make the Pentium 3 as well as the Pentium 4 processors obsolete? I may wait it out. Kind of like I waited out the BlueRay vs HD DVD war.
  • bob104bob104 Posts: 94
    I'd wait as long as I could. I plan on an iQ early next year as our second car. That is if we don't move into "town" in which case we'll become a one-car, one-ebike w/trailer family.
    The car industry has been slow to offer the huge line ofconventionally-powered true subcompacts, minis, that they offer in Europe. They'd love to sell you a Corolla today and a PHEV in two years. But with sales plummeting for bigger cars and a frenzy for Yaris, Fit and Prius they are going to have to sell minis if they are going to be able to sell anything.

    The average car in the US only gets about 20 mpg. A used 30-32mg Corolla, like my used 30mpg Civic is still a hot item, saving about $1000/year in gasoline over John Doe's Taurus. And so it will be with 66mpg? PHEVs vs. today's 44mpg Prius. BTW, there's diminishing returns on fuel efficiency. 66mpg vs. 44 mpg only saves 90 gallons/year. The best efficiency is car pooling. Your Prius can get "220mpg" with 5 riders.

    The comparison I would make in order to project depreciation of a 30mpg 08Corolla vs. a 44mpg 08Prius (50% better mpg) is not 05Corolla vs. 05Prius (both lost only $4,000, but the Corolla lost a larger percentage) but a 20mpg 05 Camry vs. a 30 mpg 05 Corolla (also 50% better mpg).
    We're in fairly rarefied air here. I don't think anyone, even Edmunds' TCO, can project future depreciation in a marketplace that is so unpredictable. You just have to make the best assumption you can.
    Mine is that an 08 Prius will lose less value than any new car you can buy today.
    Just to throw in a monkey wrench, currently it costs, what $4000?, to replace the Prius battery. That means you may need to add in a set-aside cost of about 4 cents/mile, 3 cents in CA with it's 150k warranty, for the battery expenditure.
    Somewhere, maybe $5-7/gallon, the Prius has a lower TCO, true cost to own, than does a comparable 30 mpg car. Comparing to a 40 mpg mini, the Prius just can't pan out.
    Bring on the minis. Maybe in January . . .
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