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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    After you become informed about ARM, understand his methods, work ethic, and leadership qualities you will regret refering to him as "this idiot" for he has accomplished more in the business and manufacturing world than any of us or all of us combined. You don't have to kiss his ring, but better you know what you are writing about before referring to somebody as "this idiot". :mad:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    euphonium, Why did I hit a soft spot ? Is he your brother ? Is he you ? If you are the new famous head of Ford, I guess I shouldn't knock you for driving a POS Lexus, and I hope it's keyed by every UAW member left. ;)

    I really honestly don't know what all the hype is over you. You really didn't turn around Boeing did you ? Hell given your situation I could of turned around Boeing. Slash and Burn economics 101' requires little brains. Your a typical suit that gets too much credit. It will be short lived.
    Your worst day will be when Rick, fires you and your lexus smiles will fade to frowns. :(

    Rocky
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Anyone else get 5 e-mails?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    scootertrash, sorry pal. My computer was freezing up yesterday whenever I tried switched pages or email and it started in the carspace page :confuse:

    Rocky
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I guess it's the thought that counts ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Thanx, sorry again. I was trying to be thoughtful and nice. :blush:

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,439
    I think they used instrument clusters leftover from a mid 70s Continental...doesn't look good
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,439
    Indeed, talk to some Boeing people about him, you won't see many smiles. He didn't really do anything revolutionary, he just made lots of cuts. Once again someone with an eight figure income gets too much credit. Boeing is a hard company to examine as well, lots of government money pouring in, not to mention the local subsidies.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    Ford seems to have a messiah every six months: Nasser, Padilla, Fields, Mullaby. That's by means an exhaustive list. This guy's lucky to last the average Ford messiah time, six months, then it's time for a new messiah.

    There's nothing in his Boeing experience that's helpful at Ford. At Boeing on the defense side, the biggest thing is dealing with the Pentagon and Congress. With all the consolidation, there's zero competition. With the defense budget increasing by, what, 50% since 2001 (?), his biggest problem was finding shovels big enough to rake in the money.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    mariner7, Fintail, Thank-you guys. I forgot about "that". What I mean is a turn around isn't hard when Uncle Sam is throwing Billions at you in the form of contracts. What if Uncle Same gave GM, and Ford billions in contracts to assembled cars for retired government suits to drive. :P

    We all could turn around a company if we had it that easy.

    Rocky

    P.S.

    I doubt they used a shovel to rake it in. I believe they used a crane to pick the dough up and place it in a Scrooge Mc Duck Money Bin. ;)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Well I thought that's why they bought Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin to take care of that problem ?"

    It was, and I still think it was a great move at the time. Problem is, Nasser was removed, and his vision for the PAG dismantled immediately, so those brands never did what they should have.

    I'm ok with Lincoln becoming Joe 6 pack's Cadillac, IF, they keep all the PAG brands. But if they sell Jag and L/R, then Lincoln needs to step up just like Cadillac and compete on that level. Anyway, that's how I feel. :confuse:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well Volvo is a direct Cadillac compeititor isn't it ? It priced a bit cheaper and I would argue it offer more thn the current STS and has one of the most beautiful interiors ever designed. Of course it should since it's scandinavian. :blush:

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    See, I would never cross shop a Volvo with a Caddy - but now that you say it, I have a friend who was ready to sign on an STS-V, I suggested he look at Volvo, and he bought an S-80, but the main motive for him was the price. The S-80 was 60% the price of the Caddy. The STS-V is no longer avaliable, BTW. Seems nobody wanted it.

    I would have put Jag and Caddy more together - but perhaps I should re-evaluate.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The STS-V is no longer avaliable, BTW. Seems nobody wanted it.

    What ? Are you sure ? Where did you read that at ? :surprise:

    Rocky

    P.S.

    I'm in the market and have crossed shop both. Well I've crossed shopped alot of cars. lol... :blush:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Boeing has a helicopter plant a few miles south of Philadelphia. They just got a big contract from the government for the V-22 Osprey. The politicians lobbied like heck for Boeing to get that contract.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Messiahs? These dudes seem more like antichrists.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "The STS-V is no longer avaliable, BTW. Seems nobody wanted it.

    What ? Are you sure ? Where did you read that at ?"

    That's what the Caddy dealer told us - was he lying to make the sale you think? Didn't work anyway... :confuse:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Wow, if that is true then the STS-V, was the biggest flop from Cadillac, since the Catera. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...I sure would've wanted a Cadillac STS-V. I don't know if I could've afforded it.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
  • It lives! ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well you could buy me one while you are at it. :P

    I'm glad the STS-V lives :shades:

    Rocky
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    A.R.M. took Boeing from its first posted loss in more than 80 years to substantial profits. In 2002 Boeing posted an official "profit" of $492Mn on $53.391Bn in revenues. A near disaster for Boeing. Cutting build times, staffing, and redundancies, in part based on the Ford Motor and Taurus experience, installing a moving assembly line, ARM improved efficiency by 50% at a minimum. Last year Boeing delivered 1029 air-frames, of which only 110 were DOD/defense related (42 F/A-18, 16 C-17, 40 F15K, & 12 F158G), plus refurbishment of 20 Apache AH64's. In 2005 corporate revenues increased 5% to $54.845Bn, with net income increasing by a dramtic 37%. Backlog/future orders increased 34% to $205Bn. Operating cash increased to $7Bn, with Defense Systems earning up 33% and an increased operating margin of 12.6%. The Military Market represents $14Bn compared to Boeing's $57Bn commercial revenues. Military DOD contracting is strictly controlled by Congress with bidding guidelines that must be adhered to---not a 'free-for-all' as many competitors exist owing to the nature of suppliers affecting the aero industry. BAE Systems, the UK Group, has its largest market not in the UK, but the U.S..

    While Military/DOD orders represent a long term sustainable income curve, the numbers add up to 15% of the capacity at Boeing. Thus, unlike McDonald-Douglas, Boeing is dependent on its Commercial Aviation Group for its survival and its profits. Precisely where Mr. Mulally earned his reputation. And now, driving a Lexus over to Fords, must raise the bar for Lincoln and all of Ford Motor Company.

    ARM can take heed that Mr. Ghosn's intend to find a partner for Nissan-Renault is now falling on deaf ears: "If you can't build a successful business volume on 9.2Mn units, I don't see working with someone else is going to be what saves the day..." MR. Wagoner stated in Paris this evening (09-29-06). Mr. LeClair, COO of Ford Motor, said much the same thing: "Every good company reviews its options...but right now our #1 priority is to fix our business...its where we are focused...we don't need a partner..." Mr. Ghosn seemingly checkmated at Ford having twice turned down Bill Ford prior to ARM's hiring. If anything ARM is breadth of fresh air vis a vis the rather routine solutions that Carlos would impose. GM rejecting Ghosn's $10Bn cost savings in any would be alliance, figuring closer to $2Bn---hardly enough for GM to accept a partner---and the same holds at Ford. It is Nissan-Renault that needs the alliance, not the other way-round. Ford Motor would lose credibility if they tied in with Nissan-Renault at this stage, shunting aside ARM in the deal.

    ON the contrary---having your new CEO enormoured of the quality of the competition is a good thing---no doubt he has already told them: "Built a better Lexus" And that badge will fall to Lincoln.

    They will have to, China is sitting on $1Trn (trillion) in cash reserves (thank you wall-mart shoppers), comprising $367Bn, L193Bn, and E286Bn. China's SAFE---State Administration of Foreign Exchange---run by the People's Bank of China's Mr. Zhong and also aided by Ha Jiming of the China International Capital Corporation are about to engage in a $300Bn spending spree---acquiring assets in the U.S. and Europe to bolster their currency and account balances position. Given the low value of Ford Motor stock, (trading at $8) Bill Ford and ARM may well face a representative from the Peoples Bank of China on their boards...one way China can break into the American market---by acquiring equity stake and thus becoming a "local player". Considering Ford is tied with a local manufacturer in China, it would open the door for exportation of Chinese made Fords, and Chinese financed American built Fords....within this country! Toyota could afford to "buy" GM or Ford given the market capitalisation of either firm---only the Ford Family prevents that from happening at the Blue Oval. (And the persnickety behavior of Kirk Kerkorian at GM!) Thus China has ten times the reserves of the Japanese firm. Only regulatory requirements might also act as a break against an out-right hostile acquisition. However the reality has to be considered, that just as Japanese firms bought American assets in the 1980's, so too can the Chinese---without making their mistakes!!

    Thus the task falls to Lincoln...acting as the talismen for the whole corporation and a good place to start to impose new thinking, systems, and industrial efficiency along with a great design to regain the initiative. Thus Lincoln will become properly ARMED to fight the competition that is now rising across the globe---from the corridors of the Paris Motor Show, to the 'Great Wall Motor Works' in Beijing. As Lee Iaccocca once said: "This business isn't for the light-hearted..." And ARM, having saved Boeing, has more than proved his mettle---that he can surely move the metal and the men when the need arises and failure is not an option.

    DouglasR

    (Sources: FT; WSJ; Automotive News; Edmunds ONline; Boeing Aircraft Corporation.)
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    After reading post 729 you will be informed about ARM at Ford realizing he is NOT an idiot. "Knowledge is Power" ;)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Please keep it coming douglasr. Very interesting posts. And, I wonder - is ARM driving his Lexus, a Town Car, or Lincoln LS these days? I can hardly believe it would be a Zephyr, MKZ...... Yuk.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You will find out just how big of an idiotic "suit" he is when he fails euphonium. I'm very surprised you guys worship this idiot. The airline industry is a whole different ballgame than auto's. Alot more competition in auto's and Ford, won't have the luxury of president Bush, bailing his [non-permissible content removed] out like it was when he was CEO at Boeing. Oh, how soon we forget. :confuse: ;)

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Hmmmm, some personal issues here, Rocky? ARM no friend of unions, evidently..... :shades:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I don't respect people who slash and burn, and recieve tax-payer money bail-outs and the media puts them on a pedestal. :confuse:

    I really can't believe Ford Jr. hand picked this guy as his replacement. He could at least found other alternatives. What about Roger Penske, Carlos Ghosn ? I could gripe about them also but neither one is nearly as big of a "suit" than this guy IMHO.

    I hope the UAW, squashes this suit. :mad:

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Let's see, I do recall you griping that the Bush administration would never help out Ford or GM, and you didn't like that. But ARM got Bush to help out Boeing, and you don't like that. So, I'm confused there.

    If you haven't noticed yet, the UAW isn't in a position to squash anybody who is providing jobs at this time. Not a good strategy. Might be better to try to work with the guy and save the company.

    Carlos Ghosn turned Bill down.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    I agree and you also have a good memory. :)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Let's see, I do recall you griping that the Bush administration would never help out Ford or GM, and you didn't like that.

    Yeah I do recall myself griping about how president Bush, has allowed the Japanese, and Chinese to manipulate the true value of their currency by 30% and not enforce human rights laws on the books for China.
    All I wanted was for president Bush to rewrite and/or repeal the "Free Trade" laws in this country so domestic buisness's wouldn't have to off-shore labor to cheap slave/child labor markets like china.

    As far as giving bail-out money, I don't recall asking for that per-say. I did say if he's giving it away to the airlines, haliburton, and any other oil suit, then he should give it away to the car company's since they were affected by 9/11 also. ;)

    If you haven't noticed yet, the UAW isn't in a position to squash anybody who is providing jobs at this time.

    Who's providing jobs ? Oh those Zero benefit jobs :confuse: They might as well just close em as far as I'm concerned. :mad:

    Not a good strategy. Might be better to try to work with the guy and save the company.

    Once the Chinese, hit the market there might not be any saving of the company's. Buh-bye GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc.....Indians might have a chance. :sick:

    Carlos Ghosn turned Bill down.

    I think Carlos, was smart and left it alone. Volvo, has the most upside at Ford right now. Wished we had a dealership near me so I could seriously consider one for my driving pleasure. I Think Ford, is destroyed just like our Detroit Lions. :cry:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well you and him both were warm, (memory) but not hot ! :P

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I don't want to make this a political debate. I did not notice any administration other than Carter's, who ever materially assisted the Auto Industry here. The other exception was when Bush 43 put restrictions on steel imports to assist the steel industry in this country.

    Unfortunately, I believe this only fostered the movement of assembly and manufacturing to Mexico, like the Lincoln Zephyr. Governments can certainly affect markets, but government ruined the railroads in this country - so I don't usually depend on them to make my cars better.
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    The GM board meets tomorrow to hash out the numbers proposed between Nissan-Renault and GM's own calculations about their prosective merger with Mr. Ghosn. No doubt dissention between the numbers will force an independent audit...but the telling remark is made by GM's CEO of OPEL Hans Demant commented to James Mackintosh of the FT: "We are approaching Toyota...Toyota is also improving but not at the pace we are..." GM-Europe on a drive to outpace its competitors in the build-quality department, especially Toyota---Mr. Demant alluding to the fact that GM can do it alone. Left unsaid is that a merger would only slow them down from reaching their goal.

    IF GM-Europe can catch its rivals, then Mr. Ghosn has one less card to play and he will have to approach Mr. Ford once again. Twice he has turned down direct approaches from Bill Ford, so there would be little gained now if Ghosn came back to the table at Ford. Mr. Ford, while having been enamored of Mr. Ghosn's performance record and no doubt offered him a viable package to come to work for the Blue Oval, could not now turn his back on Mr. Mulally allowing Mr. Ghosn to come on board in any merger or alliance. Ghosn having made it clear he does not want to "work for" Bill Ford...his position within a merged Nissan-Renault-Ford would an awkward one. Mr. Ghosn has missed his mark, he will not be able to use the assets of N-R as a leverage against his larger rivals, and will be left standing alone to face his feared competitor: Toyota.

    Thus...having no capable or pallitable executive to choose from to ease his burdens and salve the troubles at Ford Motor, Bill Ford had no choice but to go outside the auto industry. A gamble, yes. Mr. Mulally's learning curve is going to have to equal that of one of his former 777's, or an F18A if he is to succeed. So both men are playing a very high stakes game. But he is merely following the same course taken by HFII in 1945. Breech and his team from the Strategic Bombing Survey and War Production Board had no more experience at building cars rather than bombs and airframes than Mr. Mulally does. Yet Breech and his men, under HFII, transformed Ford Motor: the company went from 18.82% of the market in 1948 (third behind Chrysler) to 30.07% in 1957---marking Ford's highest market penetration in less than a decade. True, they did it in an expanding market where demand for autos was high, the market today is three times as large, the Chinese expansion also representing both opportunity and challenge for Ford Motor on the same scale.

    Regardless of whether or not we like ARM, whether or not we see him as a "suit" or a "nuts and bolts guy" (He is, of course, and engineer and pilot in his own right, also building his own small plane for fun.), the fate of Ford Motor is clearly in his hands. He is in the hot seat, the same kind our current Secretary of Defense is in...though our industrial strength, competitiveness, and jobs are at stake given ARM's decisions---not lives. But in a sense, lives are at stake on another level. He will not want to be known at the 'Roy Hurley' of his generation---the man who destroyed both Curtiss-Wright and Studebaker-Packard---he will not to find himself in the sequel to Douglas Brinkley's Book on Ford Motor, 'Wheels for the World', as the "man who destroyed Ford". On his watch, far more is at stake than just building a better Lexus, or even saving Lincoln.

    As even Nissan is shifting some car production out of America back to Japan---"to enhance our profitability", though they seek a larger foot print here, the trend remains a negative one in this country in terms of auto manufacturing and profitability. That's the crux of the issue. Paying your employees a livable wage while making an enhance product with higher and higher content and quality levels---all against a backdrop of incremental increasing supply costs and inflation. This is the 'New World Order' we now face, and why the CEO of VWAG called it a "race" instead of a "marathon".

    If you think ARM drives into the Glass House thinking that second best is winning---then we underestimate not only his own record, but the chance presented that he can turn the tide, and set a new record at Ford---making it a "Number One" company again. I would not be surprised if he directs meetings leaving his jacket off---rolling up his shirtsleeves like every good engineer.

    DouglasR

    Sources: FT, WSJ, 'The Fords', Peter Collier and David Horowitz, Summit Books, NY 1987
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well that is all true, but I wished our government would hold those other economies accountable for ignoring laws, instead of looking the other way. :sick:

    Rocky
  • Yes, well, we also look the other way when it benefits our own fat cats. Hard to hold others accountable when you won't follow the rules yourself. Plus, we are a country...we really don't rule the world, nor have any right to, no matter how much we have been bred to think it our birthright. ;)

    Still, I get your point. I wish someone in the world would step up to the moral authority plate. :(
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    gregg, thank-you for your post pal. Just a little moral and ethics go a LONG way. :)

    Rocky

    P.S. I'm really looking forward to seeing if I'm going to like the production model of the MKS. Come-on Ford release some more goodies for us. :)
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Ehics and morals are feel good terms, but in the hard ball business world they are trumped by "Barely Legal" moves. :shades:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You are very correct euphonium. However that is why we are so screwed up. :(

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    How did Ford get into this mess, guys?
  • Hiring the wrong people. Installing the wrong people on the board. Thinking Bill Ford (and Elena...what a joke) had any real skills in this industry.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    -Milking product until well past it's expiration date--Ranger, Taurus, Town Car, Crown Vic, Mini-van, Focus.

    -Playing from a position of fear - Freestyle, 500

    -Putting a corporate chess game above product. PAG

    -Producing corporate jewelry (GT, Think!, T-Bird) instead of a complete product line of competitive product.

    Bottom Line: Putting short term greed and corporate BS above producing excellent product.
    Make great product (i.e. Mustang, F-150) and the money will follow.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Bill Ford Jr. for somereason can't grasp the concept that Americans, are no longer immune from competition. Instead of keep the Taurus a camcord player, he and his daddy just let it wither away. They should be ashame. :mad:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.lincoln.com/reachhigher/?section=navhome&sReferrer=182336|14420493|52- 027144|0

    It's still hard for me to believe Lincoln is going to stick a 3.7 350 hp. V-6 in this car. Does Lincoln even have such an engine in production ? Is it a European design ? Does it use turbocharging to get 350 hp. ?

    Rocky
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The base engine should be a NA 3.7 pushing 300 hp. The 350 hp version is rumored to be a Twin Turbo direct injection 3.5L. If they do that to a 3.7 it might be 370 hp.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    WOW, how do you know so much ? I just hope you are right. I'd like to wait for the MKS to come out since it's probably my favorite car right now.

    I'd love to know how much a fully loaded one will cost ? I hope under $50G's :) If so I'll wait for it to come out since I'm attracted to it and I wouldn't have to drive to Lubbock, for service like I would for a Volvo.

    I like the Twin Turbo idea. Give me a boost guage and Audi, move on over. ;)

    Rocky
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    They've had a twin turbo 3.5L running around in a F150 for a long time. It's not a huge secret, just not widely discussed.
    Don't remember if it was discussed publicly or not, but that's the plan since they killed the 4.4L V8.

    The twin turbo makes at least 39 more hp and costs $2K less than the V8 so it makes sense.
  • Trusting that you know your stuff...

    Why would Ford pay so much for the 4.4L in the first place??Twin turbo engines are also pricey items with all the extra hardware and engineering they need over a normally aspirated mill.

    So the 4.4L Volvo engine must be really expensive. If that is so, why not re-engineer the 4.6 to fit front drive applications? Yes, it would be an expensive proposition, but Ford is going to need such an engine to stay competitive. The 500/Montego/Freestyle, Fairlane, MKZ and Edge will all need a V8 option soon enough in order to remain competitive.

    Then there are also the 3.0 and 4.0 L v8s within the family too, which could be modified to be less costly if sold in greater numbers. Ford used to tout its modular engine architecture. Well, use it and come up with a size that can be stuffed into these tight engine bays.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The 4.4L is made by Yamaha in very low volumes. The 3.5, 3.7 and TT variants are made totally in house in the U.S. in very large volumes - thus the price difference. The $2K price difference was between the 4.4L V8 at 311 hp vs. a Twin Turbo Direct Injection 3.5L at a minimum of 350 hp.

    The 4.6L is too large for a transverse D3 application. The base 3.7 should provide almost the same hp and be lighter with better fuel mileage. Same for the TT variants.

    Ford is rumored to be working on a compact V8 that would fit in between the 3.5/3.7 and the 4.6 and that is probably what they'll use in the CD3/D3 FWD applications instead of the 4.6L mod motor. I'm guessing it's a 4.2/4.3L derivative of the 3.5L architecture but that's just a guess.
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