We have an updated look. Click here for information on how to manage your settings. If you run into any issues, please email [email protected]

Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

I belive Lincoln has a history that neither Lexus or Infiniti have, and if Ford wanted to, it could make Lincoln a better brand than Lexus/Infiniti. THe new MKS and MKX are a good start, but ford has to keep going, Lincoln needs a flagship sedan (RWD platform would be best), that can compete with a LS430 or Infiniti Q45, the Town Car is simply to old and underpowered to even compete against these two.

What do you think Ford should do with Lincoln??
«13456790

Comments

  • I'm afraid I have no answer. Like Cadillac, Lincoln was established by Henry Leland. Unlike Cadillac however, he didn't have GM's bean counters looking over his shoulder and set out to build a car that would "last forever". And went bankrupt. It was saved by Edsel Ford who continued who continued with the highest quality/no profit view of luxury. When Henry II took over Lincoln began its long slow move away from high-end prestige, towards profitability. Should they try moving back up market? Or should they change their target from Cadillac to Chrysler.
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    I belive Lincoln has a history that neither Lexus or Infiniti have

    I don't think that matters much, frankly -- heritage for the Big 2.5 is vastly overrated, and is probably more of a hindrance than a help. But I agree that the situation isn't utterly hopeless.

    If I was CEO, this is what I'd do:
    -Punt Mercury. It's a redundant exercise in cynical badge engineering that simply dilutes the brand, and is relegated to the role of Old Man's Car. Let Ford be the main brand, with Lincoln as the luxury/ niche provider, but keep a seperate dealer network so that the service styles can be sufficiently different.

    -Dump the badge engineering. There is no reason to have ever had both a Taurus and a Sable, for example, nobody is fooled and both cars end up with diluted images as a result. Put the marketing and R&D dollars into one exceptional car, instead of creating ugly grilles to end up with two mediocre ones.

    For Lincoln, what it shouldn't do:

    -Sell rebadged Fords. If platforms are to be shared, make the resulting cars highly distinct. (If Ford can use the same platform to build cars as varied from one another as are the Volvo S40, Mazda 3 and Ford Focus, it can be creative here, too.)

    -Copy the Europeans or Japanese. If people want a Mercedes, they will buy the genuine article; if they want the reliable version of the Benz, they will go Lexus or Infiniti instead. No reason to run into a market niche that is already crowded with tough competitors, when the buying public won't take it seriously.

    Instead:
    -Follow the path of the 300 and such, and build a uniquely "American" sedan (whatever that means.) Give it the best interior in its class, outstanding fit-and-finish, an exceptionally smooth small-block V-8 standard (no pushrods, but do give it some nice low-end grunt), with a nice poised balance between handling and ride.

    Offer one larger engine option, high standard equipment levels and few options, as well as a look and feel not quite like the imports, but not quite in the vein of the outgoing Lincolns, either. Give it the longest warranty in the business and a complete free maintenance package that is akin to BMW's.

    And don't give it a name intended to remind people of a past glory car, just in case you create more annoyance than excitement.

    Create an SUV in the same vein as the above, as well as a special limited-edition coupe that is meant more to showcase the brand as a performance-luxury car -- it need not sell in high numbers. Get away from the image of being a barge, while avoiding any attempts to copy the Germans or Japanese.

    In other words, build a relatively cheap V-8 version of a Bentley. Continentals are flying off the shelf, relatively speaking -- go for the crowd that would love to own a Bentley, but couldn't possibly afford one and would like one at a fraction of the price. It doesn't have to look like one, but it should exude character and quality, whatever that happens to be.

    By the way, none of this will ever happen, so we'll just keep this between us...
  • the zephyr IS a merc milan/ford fusion and although I have not yet had a chance to drive them - it comes down to a small matter of styling and options.

    but then, the ES300 Lexus was really little more than a Camry with better options and some sound-deadening equipment and the Infiniti I30 was a Maxima in new sheet metal - as was the old G20 (a Sentra-knock off, of all things)

    I just bought a Ford and I like it, but not so keen on the new grill for 2006 - the Merc one is better. Also, the "Fusion" does have a different interior and attitude than the "Milan" version.

    Lincoln shouldn't be just another destination for Ford's parts-bin. If they want to keep it, it needs to step back up and make luxury cars that are truly luxurious - and then allow Mercury and Ford to handle "cheap luxury" cars.

    A $80k Lincoln? If it had a V10/12, and could keep up with an Audi A8 in styling and performance - heck yeah...

    Question is, can Ford's engineers build them? They are showing lots of promise - but the jury is still out if the blue oval can make a true luxury car to even compete against the likes of the VW Phaeton.

    Sadly, money will make it very unlikely to see this stuff happen - so instead...let's just hope that Lincoln means conservative styling for grown-ups who want a Ford but don't want to look like a teen.
  • prosaprosa Posts: 280
    If I was CEO, this is what I'd do:
    -Punt Mercury. It's a redundant exercise in cynical badge engineering that simply dilutes the brand, and is relegated to the role of Old Man's Car. Let Ford be the main brand, with Lincoln as the luxury/ niche provider, but keep a seperate dealer network so that the service styles can be sufficiently different.


    Ford is trying to market Mercury toward women. An unusual step, but it might just work.
    I'm not so sure if Lincoln-only dealers could survive.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Mercury's are rebadged Ford and Lincolns, is that a good thing ???? :confuse:

    Rocky
  • wilcoxwilcox Posts: 584
    I like Ford products, but...

    Today, Lincoln (and Caddy for that fact)... Neither their SUV's nor their smaller passenger versions are impressive.

    Lincoln was a famous name....at least it was back in the 1860's to the 1960's.

    Today, it's pretty weird to have a "luxury" vehicle that has the same name as a one cent piece....(which is nothing more than a piece of steel with a copper color...a penny so worthless that none evens wants to bend down and pick it up off the pavement).

    Remember the "Olds"? The older names seem to be burning out.
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    I'm not so sure if Lincoln-only dealers could survive.

    If quietly tied to Ford dealers or with a large enough Lincoln lineup, they could. (Once credibility is built with the quality sedan and buzz created with a hot coupe, I could see a roadster, crossover vehicle and possibly other cars.) But if the former, the relationship should be fairly opaque, similar to how Lexus and Toyota are clearly distinguished from one another, despite the ES 300/ Camry relationship.
  • Lincoln was a famous name....at least it was back in the 1860's to the 1960's.

    Unsure of your reference here. Lincoln was started during WW1, building Cadillac engines for airplanes. They moved into cars after the war (1918) and were bankrupt by 1922. Only the fact that Ford bought the company, has kept it around the last 80 years. The last 10 years have been perhaps there best years ever.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,721
    I'm sure he's referring to the original famous Lincoln -- old Abe himself!
  • wilcoxwilcox Posts: 584
    Yes, honest Abe was the first Lincoln...and we know what happened to him. Then, in 1909 the lincoln cent made the sceen. From 1909 until the 60's the lincoln cent was made out of solid copper. Today, the lincoln is worthless...not worth hurting one's back to bend over and pick one up from the ground...especially if "tails up".

    My point is that the name is old. Marketplace has become dynamic. Most old sounding things don't do well at the market place. And the "LS" cannot compete because of cost, performance, comfort, style, resale value, and reliability.

    If you test an "LS" and then go down the road and test a "TL", then who's the better?.
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    And the "LS" cannot compete because of cost, performance, comfort, style, resale value, and reliability.

    I think that along with this, another issue is that the LS is an effort (or at least a partial effort) by FoMoCo to build a European-influenced sedan. Given its history as a builder of luxobarges, cars like this from Lincoln arrive on the market with zero credibility behind them. Even if the car was outstanding, it would be hard for it to change minds, because we do not associate the Lincoln nameplate with "Euro sedan."

    That's why I'd go for the bargain Bentley approach -- this wouldn't be a real stretch from what Lincoln had done in the past. Rather than try to compete head-on with Acura and Lexus, getting killed in the process, build a highly reliable luxury American muscle car with proper handling in a sedan body with a fantastic interior, and carve out a different angle to reach the same audience. The public doesn't want a faux 5-series from a US automaker, when it can just buy the real thing.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "My point is that the name is old. Marketplace has become dynamic. Most old sounding things don't do well at the market place."

    So, you suggest a more modern name? Perhaps the 2007 Bush MK Z? Or anyone out there for a 2008 Hillary MK C?

    "And the "LS" cannot compete because of cost, performance, comfort, style, resale value, and reliability.

    If you test an "LS" and then go down the road and test a "TL", then who's the better?. "

    I don't know what 'who's the better' means, but in case of LS vs TL, I'll take the LS every time. The LS has competed very well against the best entry-lux cars out there. I don't know the final tally but Lincoln has sold a ton of em. My '01 still runs like new with 70K on the clock. I think the LS could compete much better in a slightly higher price bracket with an interior more similar to the Navigator or even Zephyr and perhaps a body redesign. Say for example the LS innards and aluminum suspension in the MK S body and interior. It is one of the best performing and handling vehicles out there. Up there with the BMW 5 series. You can't say that for the FWD TL.
    Speaking of which, isn't the TL a modified Accord? Yesterday I drove the last '05 Accord Hybrid on the local dealer's lot. I've been thinking about a better gas mileage machine in the driveway. Now this is the top-o-the-line accord with leather and some bells and whistles and a 255hp setup, with Navigation for $30,000. It's gotta be pretty comparable to a TL. It ran quite nicely, with comfort and a nice amount of getup and go. I liked it. But when I got back in my LS for the drive home, I knew right away that the LS was a much nicer and more fun car to drive - even with 70K miles. And I can buy a lotta gas for $30000.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "I think that along with this, another issue is that the LS is an effort (or at least a partial effort) by FoMoCo to build a European-influenced sedan. Given its history as a builder of luxobarges, cars like this from Lincoln arrive on the market with zero credibility behind them. Even if the car was outstanding, it would be hard for it to change minds, because we do not associate the Lincoln nameplate with "Euro sedan." "

    There is some truth to this. It has become next to impossible for American auto mfgrs to get serious credibility back after the stuff they were building in the 70s and 80s. ANd the car was and is outstanding but Lincoln had a lot of trouble getting the target demographic - Beemer buyers etc - into the showroom. And once they were in the showroom, then Lincoln had the disadvantage of a clueless sales force. They ended up selling a lot of LSes to the blue hair set.

    "The public doesn't want a faux 5-series from a US automaker, when it can just buy the real thing. "

    I dunno. Lots of us bought this very thing - for 8 to $10,000 less than the 5-Series. And the LS is a bigger car.

    I think there's room in the Lincoln stable for a performance-oriented luxury RWD car like the LS but with more bling - ala the COntinental concept - for more bucks. And a MK S to compete with Acura. And an updated Town Car and a Zephyr. And then there's that wonderful Mark X convertible concept. That would bring some cred like the XLR is helping to bring to Cadillac, which, BTW, could be the example to prove your theory wrong. But Lincoln announced they would not build the Mark X concept 30 seconds after they showed it. Of all the concepts they've shown since I bought my LS the only one they're building is the MK S. If they build the Continental COncept as well, they'd have a winning lineup.
  • wilcoxwilcox Posts: 584
    I may have spoken a little too quickly about LS. You sound very pleased with yours. Several years ago they were exciting...even the little V6 with manual shifter.
    Last summer I spent a day looking and testing sedans. I was considering an LS. They look good from a distance. The prices were very competitive (Caddy's were too). :D

    I chose a handsome new LS on the lot that I'd be most interested in. The sales person went and got the key and guess what? The cotton pickin new LS had a dead freaking battery. That turned me off completely.

    So, I goes across the street and to Acura. The white TL started right away. It was fun to drive. I won't go into any further details on TL...

    The other day in Publix magazine section a Consumers Reports listed quite a few "black balls" for used LS's. That was sad to see. :cry:

    I finally lowered myself into a'06 Accord LX V6. For the Mrs. Have no regrets so far. Except, maybe, not trying the EX Accord 244 H.P. V6 with the "short throw" manual 6 speed....I'm sure it could have replaced my SVT in most respects.

    How much longer will the LS be in production before the Lincoln Fusion takes over? The Lincoln brand name is timeless...afterall, I remember our 1964 Continental with the 430 cubic inch V8 that dad had. It's transmission crapped out rather early though..

    Sorry if my first post stepped on some of you guys toes.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "Several years ago they were exciting...even the little V6 with manual shifter"

    That's the one I have.

    "The cotton pickin new LS had a dead freaking battery. That turned me off completely"

    That stuff happens. Your reaction was more severe than mine probably would have been, but that's what make the world go round. But sounds like you never did drive an LS? Tsk Tsk .... you would have been impressed.

    Yeah, CR can be rough on American cars. Some think they're biased!!?? In my experience they're reasonably accurate. My LS, knock wood, would get a bad mark only for the HVAC.

    The '05 Accord Hybrid with 250 hp and an auto was pretty spunky.

    The LS goes out of production in June or July of this year. :mad: The Lincoln version of the Fusion, called the Zephyr, has been on sale for a few months and apparently is selling briskly.

    My Feb calendar picture at my desk is a blue '64 Continental convertible. Makes me wanna go out and find a fixer one to play with. I had a '65 Mercury Parklane convertible a few years ago that I loved but wife said that was first thing that had to go when I got laid off after 911. That car was as close to being a Lincoln as Mercury ever got.

    So u never did say if you prefered the '07 Bush or the '08 Hillary? :>) ;)
  • bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
    my 2000 LS was one of the best cars ive had. I did consider BMW and Mercedes but ive always been a big fan of Lincoln and the LS is a pretty good car to drive. RWD V8, no acura TL with FWD and V6 gives u that feeling of power.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I'd say down the drain, if they continue to build em' in Mexico + badge engineer Fords by slapping some faux wood and leather. :confuse:
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    my 2000 LS was one of the best cars ive had. I did consider BMW and Mercedes but ive always been a big fan of Lincoln and the LS is a pretty good car to drive. RWD V8, no acura TL with FWD and V6 gives u that feeling of power.

    I'd smoke your LS like a cheap cigar in a "FWD" Acura TL. :P
    Seriously though it wouldn't be a race. ;) 0-60 in 5.6 and Q-mile high 13's with a 6-speed manuel TL. ;)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 17,263
    Well if I could put my one cent in (thats two cents after taxes), the first thing Ford should do is offer the Zephyr with a far more powerful engine and a 6-speed manual transmission.

    Next stop offering more expensive Ford clones.

    Make the Town Car a big luxury boat again.

    No SUV's, high end luxury SUV's are a joke.

    Make a sporty two seater convertible.

    Make a sportier smaller coupe.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    ""FWD" Acura with a 6-speed manuel TL"

    Well, so they're making the Acura trannies in Mexico now eh?

    BTW, I'll take your bet in my RWD 5Speed LS. First curves we hit, your front end will be plowing like a cow-catcher. That'll be me going by on the left.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Well the Salom, and skid pad numbers reflect quite the opposite. ;)

    BTW- Do you smell something ???? Smells like death of another Lincoln :P

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 17,263
    I'd smoke your LS like a cheap cigar in a "FWD" Acura TL. Seriously though it wouldn't be a race. 0-60 in 5.6

    Are you sure on that? I went looking and from what I found the TL does 0-60 in 6.4 the same as an LS. Of course you could smoke my Lincoln its 0-60 in something like 45 seconds (of course its a 1938 model).

    Now if you want to take on my CTS then thats no contest. :shades:

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    6.1-6.4 for the automatic pal. The 6-speed manuel I read about in one of the major car mags had a 0-60 in 5.6 and a Q-Mile of 13.8 or 13.9 (can't remember what tenth) on a 04' model.
    That article influenced my decision. ;)

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 17,263
    Sorry pal low to mid 6's for the 6 speed manual in everything I read. Same as the Lincoln LS. Live with it as I blow past you in the Caddy :)

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • pernaperna Posts: 532
    6.1-6.4 for the automatic pal. The 6-speed manuel I read about in one of the major car mags had a 0-60 in 5.6 and a Q-Mile of 13.8 or 13.9 (can't remember what tenth) on a 04' model.
    That article influenced my decision


    You comparing against the V6 LS or the one with the V8? My father in law had a V8, and that thing was pretty ferocious. He burned up 3 trannies with that thing. :surprise:
  • My dad can beat up Manuel's dad.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Sorry pal that's incorrect. What does the CTS do in the Quarter Mile 16 point ? :P That's what I thought. ;)

    Really a V-6 CTS and/or LS blowing past a TL is absolutely funny. :cry: <-w/ laughter. Ya'll and your faux stats.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    My dad whipped Manuel's dad and your dad at the same time. :D

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 17,263
    Sorry pal 1/4 in the upper 12's lower 13's I think. 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds, give or take.

    Really a V-6 CTS and/or LS blowing past a TL is absolutely funny

    Who said anything about a V-6?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Well you didn't tell the whole story did ya. ;)

    BTW- Acura TL MSRP $36K-loaded. CTS-V MSRP $53K-loaded !!!!

    If my Math isn't "Fuzzy" that leaves me $17K price savings.

    I'll take that savings and buy a good turbo, tires, and a suspension. You couldn't handle a FWD sport/lux whipping your butt all over the place, or could ya. Bye Bye !!!!! :P

    Rocky :shades:
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 17,263
    BTW- Acura TL MSRP $36K-loaded. CTS-V MSRP $53K-loaded !!!!

    Yeah if you pay MSRP. Its good to know people ;)

    I'll take that savings and buy a good turbo, tires, and a suspension.

    Actually I wouldn't have saved much getting the Acura.

    You couldn't handle a FWD sport/lux whipping your butt all over the place, or could ya.

    It won't happen, you will always be in my mirrors, that is until you disappeared. :shades:

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Well I was only trying to stir you up a little. I know the TL can't beat the CTS-V. ;)

    BTW- Do you get a GM employee discount like myself ????

    I actually will seriously consider a 07' CTS-V if the "fit and finish" with 500+ hp. can justify the price and it's not made in China by then. :mad: Grrrrrrrr!!!!

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 17,263
    No I do not get the GM employee discount. I can get a discount at Ford (I think its called the X-plan pricing).

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • pernaperna Posts: 532
    BTW- Do you get a GM employee discount like myself ????

    I actually will seriously consider a 07' CTS-V if the "fit and finish" with 500+ hp. can justify the price and it's not made in China by then. Grrrrrrrr!!!!


    I would be shocked if you could get GMS on a CTS-V. I think GM treats them like Ford does their highline vehicles such as Mustang Cobras or Harley F-150s - employees are SOL. I could be wrong though, they're not consistent with their vehicle exclusions.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I can go down to the local GM dealer and buy one at GMS right now. The only vehicles excluded are the Corvette, and XLR. Some initial vehicle launches like the new STS they put a restraint for GMS elgible people. It wasn't until October of 04' to use you GMS on the STS. So basically that summer you were screwed. You couldn't do the order until October because I was considering one. ;) The 2007 CTS-V might be a similar deal when it gets launched ? I am going to check into it next summer/fall ;)

    Rocky
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Where is Ford taking Lincoln? It looks like they are trying as much as possible to meet the Cadillac model range on a shoe string budget. The Zephyr is a quick stopgap, because they can no longer field the LS to match the CTS. The hoary old Town Car has to be kept because they have no other answer to the DTS. The badge engineered F150 with a Lincoln grill meets the Caddy pickup. And now they will have the Navigator L to compete with the extended Escalade.

    Still, they have nothing to field against STS, XLR, SRX V8 or the V-series. Nor have they decided on an identifiable look as all Caddys now have. Lincoln's additions of the MKX, and later the MKS, will address a bit of this, but an identifiable look is still far on the horizon (Navigator is going its own way except for the Zephyr style tail lights, the MKS is a completely new look, the MKX borrows a grill theme from the 60's, the Zephyr is more boxy, and the Mark LT looks like an F150 with additional chrome).

    I wonder if they might be better off to target Buick and Chrysler right now, until they regain some traction with some standout models that can rise above the 300 or the Lucerne. Dump badge engineered Mercury and connect the Lincoln franchise with Ford stores.

    But I don't think they are considering any drastic changes like that--at least not yet. I think the hope is the models in the pipeline can again make them a credible competitor for Cadillac again. We'll see soon enough.
  • weskiweski Posts: 2
    As a lady boomer, I love my 2000 Lincoln LS. Daughter just bought new Fusion - looks like a mini me LS. However, I think it is time to move on - but to what? Zephyr is not thrilling. Don't want to pay $40k for Lexus. Drive mountains, but not enough to need an SUV. However, I would like to get more ground clearance than the LS, plus front wheel or AWD. Mostly city/suburban driving, don't need major engine, but need more than a V4 or hybrid due to skiing. Suggestions?
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Stay with Ford in an Escape or Mariner?

    Wait for the MK X or Edge crossover?

    Tell the truth if it were me (and I have an '01 LS so I think I know what u like sorta) I'd seriously look at the Subaru Outback. AWD, not big like an SUV, but still lots of room, crisp handling, good gas mileage and performance with the small engine, not so good mileage but seriously exciting performance with the turbo, ground clearance like a Cherokee, in the mid 20s to low 30s depending on equip.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    My inside sources tell me Lincoln doesn't plan to follow Cadillac upmarket, so that's why you see no obvious reaction to Cadillac's product line. Sadly, that puts Lincoln directly into the Buick market - which drives me crazy, frankly. But, Bill thinks Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover and Aston Martin are the Ford luxury cars, (Which GM doesn't have any of, BTW), so Lincoln can be the new Buick, much less costly to make that way. But it cheapens the brand that I have loved for 15 years - it pained me to buy a Lexus sedan this time, but I had to. Lincoln left me no choice, after driving Lincolns for so long, happily. :sick:
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Well said, nv. Our own ANT here has said several times that Lincoln is no longer striving to be a true luxury brand but will settle for the Buick level. Apparently Ford is giving up on matching the Japanese and European brands and is hoping they can produce cars equivalent to the LaCrosse and Lucerne now. That used to be Mercury's job but now they have taken Mercury down-market and basically are trying to make that the Female Ford. The net result for me is that, although I have owned 3 Mercurys and 3 Lincolns there is nothing in the entire LM stable that interests me any more. Sad cause I recall in 2001 at a meeting with Jim Rogers in Irvine how exciting the prospects were for Lincoln at that time. The LS promised a new way for Lincoln and more great cars were in the pipe.

    And here we in are with 2 Mazda-Lincolns, no more LS and a minivan or something in the pipe. ANd a new Navigator that won the "Worst in Show" award in Chicago. Oh and a Volvo-Lincoln with a motorcycle engine that looks like an Oldsmobile in a couple or three years. Maybe.

    Then I see Bill Ford on TV in a really pathetic ad, looking like a politician with a bunch of little kids around telling us how much Ford cares about our children. Is he a democrat running for office now? Is he trying to make up for all the Explorer roll-overs and exploding Crown-Vic police cars? What the he** is he doing? He speaks of American innovation but he is laying off most of the American engineers who made it thru Nasser's racist purges. And most of Ford's products now are based on Japanese or European engineering. Who the he** does he think he's kidding?

    Lastly, IMHO, Bill Ford looks and sounds like a doofus. And IMHO he should stay as far away from the cameras as possible. Seeing and hearing him does nothing to inspire me to buy a Ford product.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I agree. They need to get Mr. Ford out of commercials ASAP. He has the charisma of Al Gore. It would also be good to spend those dollars promoting products they have to sell right now.

    So I was right when I thought Lincoln is becoming the "new Mercury." What is strange though is that Lincoln is still making an (admittedly half-hearted) attempt to match Cadillac's line-up.

    Perhaps that will cease if the "new" Navigator with cheese grater grill fails. Of course, one can never underestimate the taste of "bling" buyers, so it might sell OK. In which case, Lincoln will remain an amalgam covering the territories of Mercury, Buick and Cadillac. Things could be worse.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Yeah, Bill Ford-Gore. Good point.

    I don't see where they're making any attempt to match Cadillac. Caddy has gone RWD for their performance sedans. Lincoln has gone FWD with AWD option. Caddy actually HAS performance sedans. Several of them. Plus a beautiful 2 seat convertible. Lincoln has the Town Car and the Zephyr. The Z won't even be a performance sedan with the 3.5 never mind the 3.0 And don't forget the Lincoln's driver-oriented shifter: "D or L" your choice! Heey!

    Caddy has a 400HP motor for their big SUV AND cylinder deactivation. Much more power AND better gas mileage. And thier SUVs do have 'bling'. The new Navigator is just plain ugly. It looks like a Chevy Silverado front with a huge chrome bug deflector. ANd they took the best interior in the industry and cheapened it and made it remind me of the dashboard on the Versailles. IMHO, if you want a big SUV now, there is NO reason to look at the Navigator. The Caddy is far superior. (Rethinking this - the Nav may still ride and handle better, I dunno if Caddy has IRS on the Escalade.)

    The Aviator is going away to be replaced by a Mazda with the front end of an AMC Spirit and the dashboard off a '61 Comet. Like the Z, it'll be made in Mexico (I think) Sorry, Bill, I'd sooner get a Subaru.

    The MK S will be here in what, 2009? ANd that has the engine from a motorcycle manufacturer. AFAIK, there's nothing else in the pipe except possibly Lincoln's take on the VW Vanagon and perhaps a replacement for the TC. I got a bridge for sale if you think either of those will be 'driver's' cars.

    Does Mercury have a 'driver's' car? HAHAHAHA

    Ford has the Mustang with live axle rear suspension. And that's IT from Ford. Well, except for the GT. Sure, I'll take one of those and a Vantage, Bill. Thanks for NUTHIN. You have forced almost every LS owner to go European or Japanese for their next car, with Caddy a possibility. All the rappers are already gone to Caddy, even Magic Johnson couldn't stop that exodus. As I said in another thread, Lincoln is now courting Afro-Americans, Mercury wants to be a woman's car, Jaguar advertises in gay-lifestyle mags, where does that leave me?
    I'll repeat the answer someone posted in the other thread:

    Buick.
  • Remember when you were a kid and you would torture an anthill? When an ant got "broken" in half it would quickly run around in circles, until it died.

    That seems to be Fords "plan" for Lincoln.
    There seems to be no true vision, just a bunch of flailing attempts at badge engineering of recycled products.

    Throwing a cheese grater grille and some maple trim on a Ford is what Mercury should be, not Lincoln.

    I'm sure Billy Ford never paid out of his pocket for a car he had to live with for years, but he's delusional if he thinks that Range Rover and Jaguars quality issues are ever going to be overcome to the point these brands get the kind acceptance to be sold in volume.

    Their Connelly leather baggage is way too full to ever be overcome.

    Volvo isn't hopeless, but I fear someday Ford will do what GM has done to Saab and we'll see Explorers with a diagonal bar across the grille.
    I do have to give them credit, they haven't screwed up Mazda.

    Advice: Forget the useless corporate jewelry you bought in England and focus on what's right under your nose.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yes, Jaguar is a very expensive basket case. And the next new S-Type, allegedly their bread and butter, isn't due for two years. Good luck. Been some pretty cars over the years, and lousy service.

    Land Rover is doing well now (though reliability remains a big issue), and should do even better with a new Freelander. Volvo and Mazda are both bright spots too. But they cannot carry Ford (and Lincoln Mercury) and Ford will not survive with only the F150 and Mustang as widely desirable. A lot is riding on the Edge and an update of the 500. The Fairlane won't be here for awhile yet.

    BTW, if you ever see Explorers with diagonal bars across the grills, can you say Studebaker Packard? That is a formula for DOA.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    ROFLMAO! Both you and gregg's comments on Bill Ford and his ads are hysterical, and true! I knew there was some reason I liked you guys....

    George: I've not see pics of the front of the new Navigator or the interior. Only the Zephyr rear taillights. Can you tell me where I can find pics of the whole 07? Thanks, NV
  • image
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    nv;

    Laughter is the best medicine. :>)

    I actually like the tail treatment on the new Navigator. Except they left off the chrome around the license plate and this is the one time it would have worked well with the tail lights. I guess they figured the chrome mines would go empty what with all the other chrome they've got on it now.

    As for the interior (don't miss the rectangular 70's-style guages which replace the beautiful backlit white guages on ours) and the front end treatment (have a barf bag handy) decide for yourself:

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/02/08/ford-unveils-2007-lincoln-navigator-and-n- -avigator-l/#more-1646

    is one place to see it. Read the comments after the article. They're priceless.

    (Well, I guess scooter beat me to the punch. But there's more at left lane and the comments are worth the trip.)
  • Maybe Ford's plan is to make the grille so controversial that no one will think to open the hood and notice the Cadillac has 103 more horsepower.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Well, if Lincoln is serious about moving downmarket a bit (Chrysler, Buick, old Mercury), then the hp difference is not critical...as long as the Nav is significantly cheaper than the Escalade. The Yukon Denali has been cut in price and I hope Lincoln matches with a lower price of their own.

    Of course the Denali still has 75 more hp. Why Ford saw fit to cancel the Hurricane engine program is very strange. They must know that they are behind in the powertrain race--and have been for years.

    And they don't even use what they have. It could be a market edge to offer the diesel in the Navigator. And what about the V10? Maybe not the most refined offering, but the cubic inches wouldn't hurt.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Unfortunately, that post is no longer available on the LeftLane....

    You don't mean to tell me they put the guages from the Zephyr in there do you? They were left over from the 80 Cougar, I believe. What else did they screw up, not that it matters, this monstrosity, I would not want just from the 64 Continental grille up front. Yuk. How sad. I hear the death knell ringing now. The Navigator was the class act of the brand. I should have bought the 06.

    Why DID Ford cancel the Hurricane engine project? Had to be money.

    And as to why the V-10 & Diesel aren't offered in the Navigator is easy - the sub-frame and front end can't handle the weight. For those engines, you need to build on the F-250 frame right now. That may be fixed later, but hopefully it won't create the problems GM has with their trucks, when they put the big engines in the same frame trucks. They get a lot of harmonic bounce at freeway speeds from a wobbly frame.

    Well - I guess I won't be missing my Navigator anymore. :sick:
Sign In or Register to comment.