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Comments
The first CTS did very well. Check the sales stats. The STS also had its day, doing much better than the comparable Continental did. But now that type of car has had its day, just as solid rear axle Panther cars have. First SRX? Yes, kind of a dud, mostly because it looked like a bloated station wagon (like the Taurus X and MKT for example). As duddy as it may have been, it still outsold MKT.
And I agree that Lincoln hasn't fared much better Wrong. Lincoln has obviously not fared as well.
Yes, Ford does not need Lincoln to survive. Thank goodness. GM does not need Cadillac to survive, but is doing better because Cadillac exists. Ford is like Honda...the core brand IS the brand, and pretty much has always been. Acura and Lincoln could go away and it would make almost no difference in the bottom lines.
Meanwhile, other companies have figured out ways to grow sales with all their brands. Ford may at long last figure out how with this new development team. As you stated, we will have to wait and see. Ford has no history knowing how to do multiple distinct brands successfully over any period of time. They did of course enjoy a good period when badge engineering was a way to create variety. Nowadays, there are already too many brands from all parts of the globe selling in each segment. Badge engineering no longer has any useful role for a company.
So this is new ground for Lincoln and Ford. Criticizing Cadillac (or Chrysler or Infinity, etc.) will not change a thing about that. New models are coming from Lincoln and EVERYBODY ELSE. It will be a battle to win back market share, no matter how good those new models will undoubtedly be. The car market wants good product, but will always be subject to changing tastes, emotion and some unexplainable wins and losses. Any win will have to be followed almost immediately with an even better replacement to that.
I would love to see Lincoln trounce Cadillac. I just cannot deliver the happy news now about how that will happen two or three years from now. Neither can you. You can cheer for the team as you always do (nothing wrong with that), but you cannot say that Lincoln will truly challenge anyone else's position until they actually do so. Furthermore in this business, the best car does not always win, and even being the best allows no one to sit on their laurels any more.
Exactly, CTS. It's the only car besides the Escalade (which was a reaction to the Navigator, but finally surpassed it thanks to the Hip Hopper's endorsements) that they really have, and the CTS was pretty poorly done the first few years. It was different though, and well received. The market was Lincoln's to lose, and lose it they did. They gave it up.
Personally, the best differentiator, IMO, would be for all Lincolns to have EcoBoost engines across the board. Standard. Optional on Fords.
Yeah, and so am I, while all this takes place.
It's been, what, over 12 years since the LS, with very little of consequence to show since then. I was a little over 50 when I got my LS, but I'll be 65 before all these new vehicles are on the road and have the obligatory year or so to get the bugs worked out. I've joined the traditional Lincoln demographic just in time for them to finally get around to aiming younger.
That said there are rumors of either Ecoboosted or Supercharged V8s for Lincoln.
That's almost good enough. I'm thinking they should be standard, but if at least you can get them, the "Hot Rod Lincoln" image may start to return.
According to John McElroy, host of Autoline Detroit (who has actually seen some of the new products) - the designs are stunning and fuel economy improvements will be "startling".
Al Ford wants to do is to take a cheaper car's platform and then change body styles and then give it an up class interior. Hey that is the same thing that Ford has been doing to Lincoln for years.
First you make the best cars you can with what you already have. Then you can build niche vehicles.
I remember looking at the them used and heard this story from a sales person detailing why the LS was a poor seller:
Gladys and Mort always aspired to Lincolns. When Mort was about 55, he bought a Town Car and got a new one every three years. When Mort died, Gladys thought the Town Car was too big and wanted to trade it in. She went to the Lincoln Mercury dealer and wanted a little Lincoln. Since the Continental was no more, she bought an LS V8 because "Mort always said a V8 was best."
A year later Gladys came back and traded in that LS V8 with 7K on the clock for a nice Sable because the little Lincoln wasn't like Mort's old Town Car.
Lincoln should have kept the Continental alive while introducing new Euro inspired models. The Morts and Gladyses would've been happy and a new crop of buyers could've been drawn into the showroom. Yes, it's convoluted but no more so than what they did do.
If GM can engineer the Cadillac CTSV, Ford can engineer a better competitor and faster. GM has nothing like the Ford GT.
I expect a super high mileage hybrid (supposedly much higher than the current MKZ hybrid), a base 2.7L Ecoboost or NA 3.7L putting out around 300 hp to all 4 wheels with more rear wheel bias similar to Audi. And an optional 400 hp 3.5L ecoboost AWD max performance version (that is probably a longshot but possible).
Push button (electronic) gear selectors and parking brake. Adjustable suspension/engine settings (Comfort, Sport, Economy). Retractable glass roof. 8 speed transmissions. Real wood and upgraded leather. Heated and cooled seats front and rear. Personalized driver settings. All current electronic doo-dads (BLIS, adaptive cruise, MyLincolnTouch - the new version, not the current one, voice control, push button start, B pillar integrated keypad.
Go ahead, tell me I'm dreaming........but I'm betting on at least 80% of that.
That seems like the description of a Mercury.
I don't think you really understand what platform sharing means.
Apparently you don't think it's possible to build a luxury car unless it's on a super expensive dedicated RWD platform. You're wrong.
As I have written before I can turn a Chevy Malibu into A luxury Car But underneath it is still a higher priced Chevy Malibu.
But if you take the same platform, lengthen and widen it, change the wheelbase, put in different drivetrains and suspension and 100% unique sheetmetal then the only thing left from the original platform is the floorpan and basic electrical architecture.
What you're really saying is they can't make a decent luxury car out of a FWD platform. I bet if they took the Mustang platform and used that you'd be perfectly fine with it even though it's just as cheap as the current CD3 platform.
CD4 is a new platform purposely built for the Focus/Mondeo/Taurus, MKZ and MKS. It's not a cheap platform turned into a luxury car platform after the fact - it's being engineered as a Lincoln platform from the beginning. And the only downside to the platform being FWD is that it's harder to achieve 50/50 weight distribution and it limits the front end styling options since the wheels have to be inline with the engine.
There is no reason to think this platform won't support a 400 hp AWD 3.5L Ecoboost drivetrain.
Lincoln's new concept, at least on paper, may have a chance as long as they get the handling and ride right and don't gouge the sticker price (a problem Ford seems to have lately). There is a segment that may go for that high tech approach as long as it is reliable. However, I'm not sure that approach will provide a lot of volume unless as akirby says the cars are knockouts style wise.
The lux bracket may become more important down the road as fuel prices keep growing hurting large truck and SUV sales, and the middle class continues to be eroded in this country. Auto companies may have to rely on lux sales to wealthier individuals in order to keep a high sales margin segment.
Kuzak says Lincoln is aiming to be as engaging to drive as a BMW and as elegant as a Lexus.
I think they'll get really close because for once they're totally committed to Lincoln as a luxury brand. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Audi shares some architectures here and there with VW, although the majority of Audi's 20+ models either have their own or share architecture with higher ups (Bentley, Lamborghini, etc.). Infiniti does do their own cars separate from Nissan. Cadillac shares platforms and also has some of its own dedicated platforms. Most people had no idea that the soon to be discontinued DTS and the discontinued Buick Lucerne are the same underneath. Nor did they care. And never did they look alike as Grand Marquis and Crown Victoria did.
Lincoln has not had a dedicated platform since about 1980. The Continental and Town Car both used to use a separate chassis, but that stopped once the 1970s behemoths were done. Nonetheless, the Town Car soldiered on as more than just a Ford with brocade or leather. It had its own style and cache apart from the Ford and Mercury.
In recent years, it has become easier for manufacturers to distinguish their brands with completely different styling, interiors, and powertrains. Ford pre-Mulally did not see the utility of that. "People can't tell that the Explorer and Mountaineer are the same vehicle," and all that rot. Ford has a long history of both producing remarkable products, and also letting them die on the vine.
Now, Ford is trying to learn from its mistakes and trying to recover from losing market share and respect. Platform sharing is one way to go forward when the coffers have been depleted, and hunger has set in. Great things can come of one good platform. VW and Audi have turned out the Golf, Jetta, TT, Beetle, A3, upcoming A3 sedan, Eos, etc. from the same platform. The original Beetle platform spawned the Karman Ghia, the first Porsche, the Thing, the Type 2 and so on.
Anyway, sorry to be so long-winded here. Just saying that a good platform can become any number of good things. Add upscale components, and suddenly, you can have a luxury car if done right. Ford does not have the money or know how to do a whole series of rear drive models right now, even though I bet there are Lincoln people who would love to do so.
It isn't the platform sharing that is hurting Lincoln. It is introducing things like the MKS and expecting it to do well in the marketplace. Had the MKS been pretty and better proportioned, and not so clumsily drawn with vaguely derivative stabs at style, and more attention given to "feel," Lincoln would be doing a little better. After all, the lesser Taurus was derived from the MKS (and Volvo S80), not the other way around.
Nobody asked me of course, but I knew the first time I saw an MKS concept that it was a mistake. I have occasionally been wrong about a car I thought should have succeeded but didn't. But I have many times seen success in "pre-panned" cars that actually went on to do well. Lincoln can share platforms (but not bodies) and succeed. They have done so before. But they have to have beauty and value and some unique attributes beyond electronic gizmos.
Let's see what Lincoln can do now. I think they have gotten the message that platform sharing can no longer be done with badge engineering, or "let's change the body panels and interior and call it a better product." They have been slow, slow learners for sure. Almost killed the whole company. Efforts like the Zephyr/MKZ, MKS, MKT, a Navigator still using the same basic body since 1998...who wouldn't question this company's competence to compete? But now, it really is do or die. Ford can go on without Lincoln. But Ford will never get the respect it deserves until it can build some competitive upmarket products.
Law enforcement is also about cost containment - the new Taurus and Explorer police products have been designed to allow reuse of exisiting equipment. Moving from the CV to the Dodge and Chevrolet products will cost departments extra.
Also, the Charger has been criticized by the police departments as too small and too delicate.
So when the next 1 series comes out as a FWD vehicle will it not be as engaging to drive as a traditional BMW?
As for the RWD Chevy police vehicle - the Taurus based Ford Police Interceptor already beat it in a head to head performance test. Once they get past the IDEA that it's FWD/AWD I think it will do fine.
As for the Lincoln image - exactly how do you think we got to the point where people think Lincolns are just tarted up Fords? Because that's what they were PREVIOUSLY. They shared doors and rooflines and in some cases interiors and they had no standout drivetrains or luxury features to distinguish them.
That is what Ford is changing about Lincoln and that seems to be the part you either don't believe or don't understand. This is a new management team at Ford including dedicated Lincoln designers. They no longer have Mercury or Aston Martin or Jaguar to worry about - they can focus entirely on Lincoln.
Whether they pull it off depends on execution but the plan is solid. I just wish people would wait to see some actual products before writing them off.
They have not announced it but I don't think they are targeting it as an economy model and the coupe and convertible are going to stay RWD. Since the current 1 series stickers at over $31K base, I imagine it will be around the same price.
But price isn't the issue here. IMHO, price has no bearing on handling and the Mini Cooper probably handles better the 7 series.
IMHO, no the new FWD 1 series won't handle as well as the current 1 or 3 but it should be on par with the Mini which is the reason for going FWD on the 1 - BMW is hoping to use this platform on 20 different BMW and Mini models.
But I would not expect it to perform as its more expensive relatives.
Glad to see you are consistent.
Wrong. Ford's AWD system is Front biased by choice, not by design. The Ford system can send torque to the rear differential electronically using a solenoid in the differential. They would have to beef up the PTU to handle a more constant load but the design certainly supports a constant 50/50 torque split for Lincoln.
Instead of making wild assumptions about what Lincoln will produce, can we just wait and see the vehicles before bashing them?
I think that WAS definitely true even a couple of years ago, but gas prices have disenchanted the rising generation with V-8s. You talk to a 20+ year old today, they would never even consider a V-8. Turbo 6s and 4s are the future, I'm afraid, and Ford is ahead of that curve. Do I like it, not particularly, I still love the sound and feel of a V-8 myself. But they are a dying breed, I'm afraid, other than in flagship Lexus', Bimmers, and Mercs.
Ford is going to find out that they've handed the law enforcement market to Chrysler on a silver platter. Law enforcement is like luxury car buyers. They want RWD.
That's very true - and it's exactly what GM did in 87, and Chrysler did in about 86 with the LH cars. Ford was smart enough to hang on to the Panther platform, until, ahem, now. And you're right, Leos are going to buy Chargers, not the Taurus Interceptor. Same with Taxis. Not sure why Mulally did that, except that sales of Town Cars was about 14,000 last year, and apparently, the Panther platform was just not going to be economical enough any longer. But I agree - as cheap as they were to make, I'm surprised they dumped this market. They had to be profitable.