Honda Fit

plekto

The EPS tests are derived at very low speeds for both city and highway - like 25mph city and 45mph highway, average, so it has zero reflection on actual highway use, other than to give you an idea of what is more efficient than another model, in general.

In 2008(?) IIRC, they will switch to a system like they use in Europe. Expect MPG figures for many cars to plummet for city and rise a bit for highway.

Now, as for transmissions, if they are at simmilar RPMs at 45mph, then you'd get highway figures that are identical. I realize that the manual models will get about 2-3mpg less than the automatics, or about their rated numbers. The automatics will get 2-3 mpg better on average, than the rating, since 65mph takes hardly any more fuel, but gets you there a lot faster.

But I don't mind it. Automatics stink like wet dog when it comes to city driving. Being able to leave it in third gear as you vault up a hill at 40mph... The automatic won't possibly do that.

How do I know? I had a Volvo 240 a few years ago. Roughly the same power to weight ratio as the Fit, believe it or not - a little 4 cylinder engine with primitive but indestructable injection - and much lower compression. Put out ~115HP.

Automatics were hopeless. The 5-speed? Flew around town faster than my 165HP Buick if you worked the gears right. 100HP is a lot of power in a small car if you can get that to the wheels constantly. Most 4-cylinder automatics don't put out more than 60-80hp before they want to shift(flogging it aside) - so the engine lugs all the time.

The manual will be in its power-band more of the time, too. The speed at which is is revving at 65mph means a full second quicker passing, if not more, since there's no waiting for it to rev up to speed. Given the lack of torque, it can't muscle its way to 85mph to pass, either - no rev, no go. Not having to downshift to pass is a godsend on a small car.

mebman

Is there really any practical purpose for the paddle shifters, or is it more of a playtoy?
I mean If you shift it yourself with the paddles do you get better gas mileage or something? Right now it looks like I'm going to have to pay an extra 1300 bucks for factory cruise control; because I really dont need any of that other fluff that comes on the sport.

hungarian83

The paddle shifters originally were designed for the Fit/Jazz CVT-7 and it allowed for driver control of the computer-designated "shift points". It really is just a toy no matter what way you look at it. Theoretically, you can get better performance, since it keeps the car in the gear you want (until you hit redline). However, for the US-market Fit you still have the flywheel for the AT, which uses some of the energy from the engine, so you are not going to get better mileage or better performance than the 5-speed manual. In fact, the Sport AT gets the worse mileage of all 4 Fit choices, but I don't think that's the fault of the paddle shifters.

It's definitely a great marketing gimmick for Honda, and it does have a purpose...sort of.

Don't think of it as just $1300 cruise control.
Think of it as $1300 cruise control with free alloy wheels and paddle shifters thrown in.
...but wait! If you call in the next 15 minutes we'll throw in these lovely side skirts and roofline spoiler!

dewaltdakota

Too bad it's not a "...but wait! If you call in the next 15 minutes, will give you a SECOND Honda Fit, AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE!" :surprise:

tabo01

I think it is just bad gearing. my 2003 civic si is buzzy
at 75, and so is the Fit. I keep reaching for another gear, and there isn't one. a higher 5th would improve
hwy mileage, and my si is rated 26/31. I will probably trade
in the civic si, (I like hatches, but my si is very vertical,
about the height of a PT cruiser. When I pull up beside an old
si, the 2003 si is about 8" taller, and I am thinking, what I am doing up here?

reddroverr

haha more like...

"then, we will send you a new honda fit every month at our special low club price. you can simply return it if you choose."

dudleyr

Nice review is up.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=109810?synpartne- r=edmunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=10981- 0

dewaltdakota

"Please change the marketing on the Fit ASAP. The message should be that the Fit drives like the Base Mini Cooper, but for thousands less. Or something similar. Don't even try to market it as a budget car when it's not. Market it as a smaller Civic. Oh — and ditch the Orange for Yellow." — plekto February 7, 2006

"It worked with the Element. Now Honda utilizes students to help launch the Fit. More students will implement their own creative marketing campaign to assist Honda in targeting the Gen Y market and introducing them to the new Honda Fit." — jonniedee, February 8, 2006

"Honda is a global company, and they understand cultural differences. Their marketing shows that they think that the Fit will mainly sell as a young first-time buyer's car. The problem with that thinking is that they really didn't design a kid's car with the Fit. This car was designed for other markets in the world in a category known as 'supermini.' Think of it as a small minivan, packed with space and innovation. So even when Honda brings this to the U.S. and slaps some gaudy trim on it, and hires Barney the dinosaur as its ad firm, it is still a supermini Honda Jazz. I predict that after the first year of this car when the word gets out about how affordable, reliable, and feature packed the Fit is, that the marketing of this car will change to meet the unexpectedly broad demographic that actually purchases it. It's kind of like putting glasses on Clark Kent; he's still obviously Superman!" — Mebman, February 8, 2006

donpurdy

That sounds great! I heard there'll be plenty of free food, prizes and games, too! I think I'll be in the area that day so I'll make sure to stop by and get a first-hand look at the car myself!

Thanks for the heads up, cconcepts!

donpurdy

jonniedee is right. If you would like to see innovative, grassroots marketing at its best, anyone in the New York Capital Region area should check out the intensive marketing activities being unleashed by University at Albany students on Tuesday, April 4, 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. at the Dutch Quad bus stop area on campus to help Honda launch the vehicle.

Hope to see everyone there!

nukepooch1

"Automatics stink like wet dog when it comes to city driving. Being able to leave it in third gear as you vault up a hill at 40mph... The 5-speed? Flew around town faster than my 165HP Buick if you worked the gears right. 100HP is a lot of power in a small car if you can get that to the wheels constantly. Most 4-cylinder automatics don't put out more than 60-80hp before they want to shift(flogging it aside) - so the engine lugs all the time..."

...and then downshifts, engine screaming, then upshifts again, back to bogging.

It's about time someone told the virtues of the "old-fashioned" do-it-yourself transmission. To be able to put the gas to the floor, enabling the engine to make its rated power without downshifting... To be able to hold a lower gear headed downhill, so you don't overheat your brakes (very nice on mountain passes...) To be able to start in 2nd gear in icy conditions, limiting engine torque and not spinning the tires.

I'm with you, stickshifts all the way...

sd_driver

I'm almost there. I'm almost sold on the Fit. But I've still got a few qualms.

(BTW: I just sat in a new Civic 2dr the other night. The car is beautiful, but I felt really cramped in the driver's seat. I own a '92 Civic hatch and I don't feel nearly a closed in as I do in the new Civic. Has anyone else had this experience?)

The Fit and my qualms.

The high revs:

The Fit: 3500rpm at 80. My 92 Civic: about 2750 rpm at 80. Now the only time I do 80 for any extended periods of time is on long road trips, or through Los Angeles (have to do 80 or people run you off the road.) Usually I keep it between 70 and 75.

Will that hi rev drive me crazy? drown out the stereo?

The Sport premium:

Why did they have to put those damn plastic skirts on the Sport? It does nothing for the car but add weight. But to get the goodies, I have to take them. I want the nicer, bigger wheels, the cruise, the upgraded stereo, the fog lights, keyless--but I don't give a frig about the skirts. Yes, I can take them off, but my mind absolutely rebels at the thought of paying for something I'm going to toss.

What does anyone else think?

The upcoming Full Model Change:

The Fit is due a FMC in June of this year in Japan. Will that hurt the resale value of the Fit I buy in the US this year? How much?

Any thoughts?

Thanks for helping with this decision.

backy

Sell the skirts on eBay. Maybe someone with a base model will take them off your hands.

Have you sat in the Fit's driver's seat yet? If not, don't commit to buying one before you do.

dudleyr

With you on both issues. No skirts and lower revs would be a good thing.

dchri2

The '97 civic Dx with 174k miles runs great, but it's about time. I have a 200 lb trailer for light hauling; i.e., brush to the recycling center, lawn mower for service, pull a light boat out of the water if brother in law is not around, get one or two sheets of plywood. Civic can do it without problems and the manual windows have never broken. Has anybody seen a jazz overseas towing? Will a hitch be available? Would it void warranty? Could the fit handle this and are there any special problems I'm not thinking about like shorter length of car would make towing more problematic? When I researched for my '97 Civic, there were no info on the USA model, but the same model in Australia was rated to tow up to 1000 lbs.

bayoubeat

Quick question. Does the Fit's magic rear seat recline a little as well?

dewaltdakota

Also keep in mind that the blaze orange color is not available in the base. You'll need to keep the Sport vs. Base color compatability in mind, if your plan is to sell your skirts to a base owner.

backy

Paint.

fondafit

I agree with posts that Honda made a mistake in hyping the Fit as entry level for young, first time car buyers. Maybe they think the Baby Boomers are all taken with SUVs and pickup trucks. Wrong! The Fit has a wide range of appeal and fortunately there was enough advance internet information, especially in forums and articles on the Jazz, to clue in the American buyer before it arrives in showrooms. (If you haven't already purchased a Fit, you may be waiting awhile.) Tree huggers, "greenies", economy-minded people who like a non-gas guzzling vehicle and don't need a big vehicle to bully people on the highway, and everyone who can appreciate a quick, sporty and safe car will prove with their buying power that the Fit has appeal across all segments of the population. If anyone remembers the Civic wagon from the mid-80s, there will also be a little nostalgia. The Fit's greatest appeal across demographics is the versatility of its seats/cargo space and ample leg & head room. Anyone from bikers, surfers, soccer moms, gardeners, do-it-yourselfers and people with big dogs (I fit in a few of those categories) -- and whether short or tall -- will love this car. Based on what I've been reading there's a general consensus that Honda should have sent yellow Fits over and scrapped the orange color. I settled for Storm Silver when I found out yellow wasn't in the color chart.

raychuang00

1. I think Honda may up the US sales figure for the Fit its its first year of sales from 50,000 to possibly as high as 100,000. Especially now there waiting list is three months for the car! :surprise:

2. It appears from the test results the Fit will give Mini owners fits (pun definitely intended! ). Handling almost as good as the base Mini, WAY more interior space, and definitely better ride quality (even with the torsion-beam rear suspension). (Is it small wonder why BMW is emphasizing the higher-end models with the supercharged engines?) It will be interesting to see who will make the 205/45R16 tires for the Honda Factory Performance (HFP) kits for the Fit, though.

3. Initial test reports show that it appears Honda did the right thing in using the five-speed automatic (adapted from the unit used on the 2006 Civic) on NA-market Fit. Even with the automatic, the car has good acceleration, especially in the middle RPM ranges.

w9cw

Torsion bar suspension can give you as good a ride as any spring-based suspension. The torsion bar "is acting like a spring," but it simply takes up less space that a coil or transverse leaf spring.

This is exactly what several French cars used for front and rear suspensions back in the late '60s and early '70s, and French cars were (are) noted for their excellent and supple ride quality. It's the spring rate, shock (damper) settings, and suspension travel that determine ride quality.

hungarian83

Trailer hitches are available on the Fit and Jazz in other markets, particularly Europe. I have never seen a Jazz towing something, but I have seen plenty of other B-segment cars towing in Europe (always manual transmissions).
It will probably say in the US owner's manual that they don't recommend towing, but it should be fine for light loads. The European Jazz 1.4 is rated as towing 1000kg (2200 lbs) with brakes, and 450kg (990 lbs) without brakes. IMHO, that is insanely high. I wouldn't recommend anything near those limits. However, the 1.5 should be capable of whatever your Civic is doing, such as light towing. Ask the dealer about voiding the warranty with trailer hitches.

In response to another message:
"Quick question. Does the Fit's magic rear seat recline a little as well?"
No.

hungarian83

"1. I think Honda may up the US sales figure for the Fit its its first year of sales from 50,000 to possibly as high as 100,000. Especially now there waiting list is three months for the car!"

Three months??? That's incredible. I wonder if the factory at Suzuka would be able to keep up with supplying 100 000 units though? They are producing all of the Japanese market models and most of the European market models still (only about 9 500 EUDM Jazzes were made in China last year).

By the way, the tires for the Honda Factory Performance (HFP) 16" wheels appear to be Bridgestone Potenza.
http://www.vtec.net/articles/article-image?image=472390/06naias-0139.jpg

jpmccormac

Re: Does the Fit's magic rear seat recline a little as well?

Yes. Check out this page:
http://www.fitfreak.net/html_content/FIT_ultra_seats/Ultra%20seat%20page_transla- tion.htm

hungarian83

Sorry...my mistake on that one. I was thinking of the entire seat bench moving forward or backward.

In other news...
HondaNews.com has some new press releases out.

raychuang00

I wonder if the factory at Suzuka would be able to keep up with supplying 100 000 units though?

Given the fact that 1) the Guangzhou, China factory has begun exporting Fit/Jazz models to Europe, 2) Honda recently opened a new factory in Turkey to build Fit/Jazz models and 3) sales of the Fit in Japan has started to tail off (after all, I think Japan is kind of sick and tired of the Fit given it's been around for FIVE YEARS over there), I wouldn't be surprised the Suzuka factory could fulfill a 100,000 car production order for the USA from April 2006 to April 2007.

But remember what I said long ago: note that the Fits for USA and Canada are coming directly from Japan, and not from Honda's North American production lines. This tells me we are probably within 18 months of a full-model change (FMC) for the Fit/Jazz; when that happens, Honda will build the new version at one of its North American assembly lines, which could allow 300,000 or more Fits to be sold in North America per year.

mainefit

Hi! Honda press releases today say that there is no lunda mist. Looks like it has been replaced by Sirius blue, kind of a baby powder color.

killerpiece

I hate to sound slow but could someone clear this up for me?

Is this the exact (give or take some things) same model that has been selling in Japan for five years? Is Honda going to redesign the Fit (Jazz) and sell it to Europe and Japan but leave North America with the previous gen. for five years? I can't imagine them redesigning it 18 or so months from product launch, would they? How long will the U.S. have this gen. Fit? :confuse:

Thanks in advance to anyone who replys....

Killerpiece :shades:

plekto

"2. It appears from the test results the Fit will give Mini owners fits (pun definitely intended! ). Handling almost as good as the base Mini..."

Actually, it is a tiny bit lighter, faster, has a tiny bit shorter wheelbase, better turning radius, and does .1 mph faster in the slalom.

It's *better* than a base Mini. For thousands less.

haulsmall

Can anyone tell me if the Fit has rear seat heater ducts? I would guess the fuel tank location wouldn't allow them. Also, does anyone have any idea how long it takes the NHTSA and IIHS to test vehicles once they become available?

hungarian83

This is essentially the exact same vehicle sold in Europe and Japan. The main differences are:
- longer front/rear bumpers
- available 5-speed convential AT (instead of CVT or CVT-7)
- side-curtain airbags
- slight modifications to the L15A engine (primarily for EPA)

Of course, there are a few other minor differences here and there, but it's pretty all the same otherwise.

It is pretty much a given that Honda will redesign the JDM Fit next year. Europe and some of the other "early launch markets" will get it then too. The main question is, will Honda give the US/Canada a new Fit then too?
I am thinking they will for a few reasons. It would be not only costly to build the 1st and 2nd generation models at the same time, but the question is where?
Japan will be focused on production for Japan and some of Europe. China will be producing for the region, and for Europe. Thailand and Brazil will be producing for their respective regions. I originally thought Turkey was only making the City for Europe and the Middle East, but I guess they are making the Fit/Jazz too now.
It would be likely that Honda would start producing the Fit at a plant in the US like Marysville or East Liberty. However, I don't think they would tool the plant to be making a vehicle introduced in 2001 and then have to re-tool it for another generation.

To me it would make sense to let the 1st generation Fit run an abbreviated model cycle in the US, Canada, and Mexico, and then do a global launch starting with Japan that would span a few months. Having Honda play "catch-up" in a few regions lagging with the old model until everyone has a new model seems expensive.

raychuang00

To me it would make sense to let the 1st generation Fit run an abbreviated model cycle in the US, Canada, and Mexico, and then do a global launch starting with Japan that would span a few months. Having Honda play "catch-up" in a few regions lagging with the old model until everyone has a new model seems expensive.

Hence the reason why none of Honda's North American factories ever tooled up to assemble the Fit. I see Japan getting the new Fit in May 2007, then Canada/USA/Mexico in October 2007, then the other factories where the Fit/Jazz are assembled by January 2008.

One thing I do see is that the 2nd-generation Fit will have CVT-7 worldwide, mostly because Honda will use an all-new CVT better-suited for American driving conditions.

mainefit

Hi, again. Here are the news releases I mentioned above. Check the colors out under body. Cheers.

http://hondanews.com/CatID2150

backy

The NHTSA usually releases test results soon after a vehicle's launch, with some exceptions. Tests for the IIHS can be very quickly released or be delayed for many months; for example, it took nearly a year for the IIHS to release tests on the Sonata, but they released results on the Civic pretty quickly. But the IIHS recently changed its procedures to allow manufacturers to submit frontal crash test results and have them validated by the IIHS under certain circumstances. I don't know if that process will apply to the Fit, since it has never before been tested by the IIHS.

shneor

Interesting. Mine was ordered in Lunar Mist a couple of months ago and is on it's way here - should be on the lot no later than April 20. It was also ordered with a dark interior, and according to the dealer, that's exactly what it is. So I expect to have one of a very few made in that color. It's a Base MT.

backy

Might want to check your order. Just because you ordered Lunar Mist doesn't mean that is what you will get.

dewaltdakota

Exterior Colors
Seven exterior colors will be offered for the Fit, including two exclusive colors available only on the 2007 Fit. The first new color, Sirius Blue, will only be available on Fit, while a new, vibrant Blaze Orange will be a Sport model exclusive. Additionally, Taffeta White, Silver Storm Metallic, Nighthawk Black Pearl, Milano Red and Vivid Blue Pearl will also be offered.

I dunno... Sirius Blue is not a new color for the Fit, but Lunar Mist is. Also, the way they phrase it "The first new color, Sirius Blue, will only be available on Fit", almost sounds like they were using "Sirius Blue" as a place holder, until they found out what the new color was, and didn't know which trim level it went on ... they just forgot to go back and change "Sirius Blue" to "Lunar Mist" and insert the word "Base", before the word "Fit" by the time it was released to the press. :confuse:

reddroverr

I am thinking they will for a few reasons

I agree, and for this further reason as well:

They had to introduce it here as is asap as Yaris and Versa were coming on board. They needed competing product.

reddroverr

The Fit is due a FMC in June of this year in Japan. Will that hurt the resale value of the Fit I buy in the US this year? How much?


It will hurt only if it is released here as well. That would seem logical to me. Hard to quantify the amount. Of course, it only applies if you are selling your car.

backy

I think what they are saying is that Sirius Blue and Blaze Orange will be offered only on the Fit and not any other 2007 model Hondas. The other Fit colors are available on other Hondas.

Maybe Honda's marketing geniuses decided to rename Lunar Mist "Sirius Blue." Maybe Lunar Mist was the placeholder.

dewaltdakota

Entirely possible, but I was thinking they were referring to all Fits available around the globe. Sirius Blue is a color already offered in Japan and elsewhere, but Lunar Mist is not.

I guess we'll all find out when the cars hit the road in a few weeks.

dewaltdakota

I've never waited for a car to come from overseas, so I'm hoping someone can help me out, here.

Once a Fit is manufactured in Japan, how long would it take to arrive in the US? I'm assuming from the port of entry, they are either loaded onto railroad cars, or 18-wheeler vehicle carriers, and shipped across the country to the different dealerships.

So, if it was manufactured, say, just this past week, when could one reasonably expect it to reach an east coast dealership? A month later?

mebman

I went by and spoke to my dealer today and he said that my fit should be in either next Friday or Monday. (7th or 10th) He said that he had just checked this morning and the cars were coming in about 2 weeks ahead of schedule!
I just may be one of the first happy buyers in the US!
:shades:

hungarian83

I am in southern California, and my dealer told me it is about 1 month from Japan production to delivery.

I believe most Japanese-produced Hondas arrive in Long Beach, California and then go to a distribution facility. Then they are loaded on trains and finally delivered locally by trucks. If it's a month for west coast delivery, I would imagine a few more days to a week for the east coast.

I have heard two build dates for my car. :confuse:
First I heard March 15 from some dealer who "looked at the order list" when my dealer was on vacation. Then, my dealer e-mailed me saying March 8. I am hoping it's that one!

Re: Early Arrival
Mebman,
I'm jealous!
Two questions. What region of the country do you live in? I thought I remember Texas, but I'm not sure. And when was the build date for your car? April 7-10 is so soon!

dmundy1

I don't think you will see Fit production in North America until more production capacity is added, and as far as I understand none has been announce (but rumours abound). With the startup of RDX production and the CRV production moving to Ohio I don't see which facility would have room to fit the Fit. I think this is what is currently built where in the US and Canada:
Ohio (Marysville and East Liberty)Accord, Civic Sedan, TL, Element, RDX and CRV coming soon.
Alabama - Oddessey, Pilot.
Alliston Ontario - Civic Sedan and Coupe, CSX (Canada only), Pilot, MDX, Ridgeline.

raychuang00

Actually, I've read that Honda is seriously looking at expanding their Alliston, Ontario and Lincoln, Alabama operations. That type of expansion could allow Honda to build the Fit in North America.

wrxtc

Hello All, first post here. After reading SO much about the Fit I've decided to wait on trading in my current car (2005 Subaru WRX Impreza 'sport' wagon) for a Scion xB. Anyone else here in a similar situation?

The Fit looks like a great car for economy, fuel consumption, cargo capacity, and fun to drive where my Subaru only meets 2 of those criteria (cargo & fun to drive). I have an 80 mile commute, 5 days a week and it's getting expensive to fill my Subaru especially with premium fuel.

I read here that April 18 looks like the date that the Fit will physically be at the dealerships (does that sound right?). I stopped by at a local dealer and he said check back in a couple of weeks. He also mentioned a few people put deposits down.

Well, just wanted to say that I've enjoyed reading the forum, scouring the web for any Fit/Jazz related info, and eagerly awaiting the arrival of the Fit here in the U.S. like most of us.

tomsr1

The Yaris is already here and since I don't need four doors
which one is the better meaning fun,quality,stable at speed?The first negative about the Yaris is the instrument
panel placement.Being a senior citizen with a bad back
which one sits higher.My wife drives a Highlander which is
perfect for getting in and out of.If I could afford two
Highlanders I would have them.

bodble2

I saw the Fit at the auto show yesterday. But I could only get very limited time sitting inside because there were just so many people waiting to check it out. My impression is that you sit low in the Fit. There is no seat height adjuster. So this is my first concern. My impression is that you definitely sit higher in the Yaris. My second impression is that the base 14" wheels are simly just too tiny-looking. (And those wheel covers are the cheapest-looking I've seen for a long time). You almost need to move up to the Sport with the bigger, fatter wheels, from an aesthetic point of view.

Anyone else have these same observations?

backy

I agree with you 100%. The lack of a height adjuster and the awkward driving position that results (for me) is my #1 concern, really my only significant concern on the Fit other than will they ever be available at a discount. I expect the Fit will get good marks in the crash tests; that would be my other concern but I can wait for the results before buying.

As for the wheels, the size doesn't bother me--I've owned several larger cars on 13" wheels and I survived. But the wheel covers are hideous. However, nothing that a quick trip to my local auto parts store can't fix quickly and cheaply.