Ford 2001 Heavy Duty F-250

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  • bobh12bobh12 Member Posts: 140
    Does anyone have any info or know anything about an "02" F-250 Super Duty called "Black Beauty"? Some folks over on F150 on line said they saw it at a Rally in KY when they toured the truck plant. Others say it is rumored to be a special edition model to be released later in the model year. Anybody heard of this or have any info on it?.
  • fordbluefordblue Member Posts: 13
    Just got back from camping in the White Mountains of AZ. Campsite was at 9300 ft. Happy to report the 01 SD CC V10 4X4 4:30 did great. Averaged a little over 9 mpg pulling my 27 ft Prowler TT. Had several mountain passes to cross (6,7,8% grades) including the Salt River Canyon. A little over 7k miles on the rig and so far I'm happy as a lark. Talking to a fellow while fueling up in Globe AZ. He was pulling a 27 ft trailer with a 01 Chevy HD CC 8.1 liter. He wasn't as happy with his fuel mileage. He said he was getting around 6 mph towing. He said he had plenty of power but then again, so did I. These SD's are incredible. At the campsite we drove some 20 miles on a washboard road and the rig didn't even rattle. Surefooted too.Anyway if you're considering buying a SD. Do it. It sure was a big jump from my 95 F150 Ex Cab 5.8 liter.
    Anyway, enough day dreaming of my next camping trip, I better get back to work.
    Later
  • rkrobbinsrkrobbins Member Posts: 2
    I am undecided if I should buy a Powerstroke or a V10 and was looking for comments/suggestions from any of you who might pull a four horse trailer or any other trailer of comparible size and weight.
  • swooshmanswooshman Member Posts: 56
    I would opt for the diesel if I were towing any heavy loads.. The diesel engine option is a little more expensive but it will pay for itself in fuel savings.. My dad has a new 01 F250 Platinum Edition with the diesel engine and he is going to tow a 30 foot travel trailer.. For serious hauling the diesel is the key.. Hope this helps..

    Swoosh
  • poolebilpoolebil Member Posts: 1
    I have all ready posted this question in another section but it seems like I may be able to get an answer here. I have 2000 Ford SD 250 Crew Cab short bed with the power stroke. I pull a 31ft fifth wheel camper with a little over 1800lbs hitch weight. I won't to install a pair of air lift air springs. They are used to keep the load level not for raising the truck. The manufacturer warns that if the truck has a brake proportioning valve it could affect the way it stops. I have called my dealer but they were unsure without seeing the truck. Have any of yall used this type of accessory and does anyone know if this model truck is equipped with this type valve. I also wonder if the trailer has brakes on it will it matter. Thanks for any help or advice.
  • fredvon4fredvon4 Member Posts: 18
    Don't know about your Y2K SD... my 2001 has 4 wheel anti lock and does not have the bed droop sensor... you should be able to determine if you have this feature by looking under the truck at the rear axle and follow all the brake lines. If you find that there is some sort of link from the bed to the axle and it appears to attach to a tee or splitter that has brake line in and out then you have the proportioning system.... The levers sense weight in the bed by suspension droop and change the front rear braking ratio. IMHO if you have the proportioning system you could still effectively use the air bags. You should have brakes on that size 5er and you probably should not put so much air in the bags that you lift the bed up to level, 1800lb hitch weight is a lot to lift. I would caution you however that the manufacturer is correct about the normal use of air bags and proportioning brakes. If you use the air bags to level a load in the bed, than the front rear bias won't be right, and will put you in danger in an emergency stop situation.
  • dblayoutdblayout Member Posts: 1
    I am looking at purchasing a 1999 F250 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed with a V10. It has 42k miles. they are asking 23,000.00 (which seems high). My question is what type of power does the V10 have? Does anyone know the towing capacity of this truck and the HP?Thanks
  • wpalkowskiwpalkowski Member Posts: 493
    For '99 the V10's output was 275 HP and 410 FT-Lbs Torque. For '00 it's 310 and 425 and for '01 it's 360 and 460!

    With 4X4, CC, Long Bed and V10 your truck weighs over 8000 lbs, not including people, fuel, and stuff in the bed. I have a '350 and if I remember correctly, for a V10, CC, single rear wheel with a 3.73 rear end, the combined weight of truck and trailer (GVCWR) combo should not exceed ~17,000 lbs. It can pull a lot more, but stopping it would be the real problem. (The rating for F-250 may be less.) If you have the 4.30 rear end in it I believe you can pull more.

    Most I tow is ~7500 lbs. On flat ground, at 65, I've got to check my mirrors to make sure trailer is still back there. On big hills, the Tranny will kick down out of overdrive, but I can maintain my speed no problem. If it starts bouncing in and out of OD, then I'll switch it off so as not to stress Tranny. I've got more HP than a '99, but torque is pretty close and torque is what pulls your trailer. Only V10 drawback is mileage - empty I get around 12, if I drive like a Grandma I can squeak out 14+ mpg. Towing on flats 8-9, towing in mountains I've gotten as low as 6-7 mpg. I really only tow 5-10 times a year though, if you've got a bigger rig, or tow all the time I'd probably tell you to get a diesel - more towing torque and mileage is much better. I didn't buy V10 for mileage, and I love to put my foot into it and surprise the heck outta cars at stoplights, but when gas started hitting $1.85 I was happy the truck's not my daily driver.

    One thing to watch out for with V10 is the exhaust flutter. Accelerating from about 2200 to 2600 RPM (regardless of gear) engine makes this weird noise - almost sounds like a diesel. It's the result of exhaust gases resonating in exhaust manifold Y-pipe. It evidently doesn't hurt the motor, but it makes me nuts to have paid so much for truck and have it sound weird. Ford has tried a couple of fixes, including re designed Y-pipe, but they haven't totally solved it. Only solution I heard so far is replacement headers.

    As far as the price, you didn't say what type of F-250 - XL, XLT, Lariat, or Lariat LE? Any truck with 4x4 gets a good price these days, and you don't find that many used late model Super Duties out there. I paid almost $35K for my '00 new. Check out the price guide here on Edmunds or over at Kelly Blue Book (www.kbb.com ?)
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    The '01 has the same ratings as the '00. 310/425.
  • bobsquatchbobsquatch Member Posts: 136
    Has anyone heard if Ford will increase the Pwstrk horsepower for 2002 to compete with the duramax. When can I order a 2002? I am ready to buy a truck but want to see whats out there. Considering Dodge and Chevy too. Who has the biggest 4 door? I am 6'4" 300lbs and need all the room I can get. Looking for a 1ton LB SRW 4X4 diesel. Undecided on the auto convenience vs the 6 speed durability/economy. Will tow 10400lb trailer 1-2000 miles a year.
  • bobh12bobh12 Member Posts: 140
    I don't think Ford has released the power ratings for the "02"s yet. But You can order one anytime. Ordered mine the forst week in June.
  • mesazonemesazone Member Posts: 51
    I just got a 01 F250/Ex Cab/Diesel. My sales person said that there is a special type of oil to use for the diesel. I read the manuals that came with it like I was told to, and saw nothing about using a special blend of oil. Ideas on specific weights are about all I saw (which I already knew.) I've never heard of using special diesel oil. Anyone know something I don't?

    Also, if I recall correctly, the "Black Beauty" is the Lincoln sister truck of the F250 or was it the 150?
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    The motor oil for diesels are different than the average motor oil use for gasoline engines.. A popular brand among truckers is Shell Rotella-T. Most stores (even Wal-Mart and the like) carry both types..
    Another FYI, the PSD holds 15 quarts, so you'll need alot..
  • bobh12bobh12 Member Posts: 140
    I believe you are thinking of the "Blackwood" which is the Lincoln "sister" of the F-150. Seems some of the features on "Black Beauty" (which may be a Ford concept truck, don't know for sure) will be on the "02" Super Duties. Possible are clear corner head lamps, and fold forward, as well as back Trailer Tow Mirrors. Don't know of anything else. Thanks anyway for giving it a shot.
  • sadie17sadie17 Member Posts: 1
    I want to buy a gas powered engine rather than a diesel powered for reasons I will not get into. I keep being told by the dealer that both the 5.4 and the 6.8 get the same gas mileage. I will be carrying a 1200 lb camper in the bed. I really do not want the bigger engine. I cannot believe they get the same gas mileage. Any opinions out there?
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Bess will be the best source on the 5.4 but I can vouch for the 6.8 V10. This is my second one and I know that city and towing on my new crew cab, auto, 2wd is very close to 10mpg. I haven't taken an extended highway trip yet and it still has under 1000 miles on it. It burns regular with no problem, even while towing and in the heat of Vegas. My old crew cab was a 5 speed 4wd that did the same while towing and got almost 12 on extended trips. I am optimistic that I may see a little more highway mpg (13??) on the 2wd because of slightly less weight and it's not lifted(even though I'm not sure if that'll be a reason)

    Now the opinion part. I believe that the 5.4 may get better MPG while empty, even if it's only 1-2 mpg more, but I believe the V10 will get better when pulling a load. I base that on a buddies 5.3 in his GMC that gets near 15 unloaded but when pulling a lighter boat than mine he's lucky to touch 10MPG. Of course all the pinging and him having to run premium fuel pisses him off something fierce. LOL!!
  • bowhuntwibowhuntwi Member Posts: 262
    The most I pull is a 3000lb boat and trailer, on trip to Canada in June was loaded down with camping gear and 4 adult & 1 youngster with boat, averaged right around 11. Not bad for a CC
    4x4, I usaully get 15-16 on the road as long as I keep it under 70. If where your doing the majority of your traveling will be hills or mountains, I did say get the V10, otherwise the 5.4 will be fine. If I was driving in the mountains everyday, I would of opted for the 10, but I'm not so the 8 does fine. 22,000 miles, no major complaints, other then the ford boys at the dealer, but that's another story.
  • fredvon4fredvon4 Member Posts: 18
    I am biased because I choose the V10...very happy that I did. You must of course determine what you will use the truck MOST for. As a daily commuter you will get better economy and reasonable tow/haul utility from the 5.4. But if the 1200lb slide in gets replaced with a TT or 5er or big Lance because you have this big beautiful superduty truck, and then you decide to explore the Rockies or Sierra Nevadas, or perchance cruise up to Ahseville in the Smokies.... then you might consider the advantages of having some more torque, ie the V10.

    My family started doing the tent thing...then slide in... now 22Ft TT, after last week out in Ft Huachuka AZ over the 4th, the comments from "she who must be obeyed" SWMBO, suggested that we may be looking at larger trailers soon....sure hope she dosn't push to the point where a PSD is required, as I REALLY like this V10

    BTW Loaded w/6800lb TT and three adults @65-75 mostly I-10 avg 8.9 mpg
    Unloaded around town and to/from work mixed Hwy/rural avg 14.2 mpg

    This is the CC 4X4 BFT (big truck)
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    Mod, bowhunter, and fred have all summed it up rather well..
    My 00 F250 SC 4x2 5.4L 5sp 4.10LS averages 15.5mpg with mixed city/highway driving..
    My best tank was 17.8 mpgs and I bet 18 is possible but you'll need to keep it under 65mph to do it..

    I think the 5.4L would handle your slidin camper just fine, and give you slightly better mpg's than the V10, and have plenty of power to let you easily keep up with traffic..

    Echoing what others have said, if your going to tow more than 3k around, or live in mountains then the V10 would probably do better.

    Sortof nice to see some of the old names on the board.. We all love our trucks so theres not much to say otherwise..
  • baychampbaychamp Member Posts: 1
    Hello everyone. I am about to order a 2002 F-250 Crew Cab LB and can't quite decide on the engine. I live in south Louisiana and will be pulling a 21' bay boat. I would be interested in hearing what type of gas mileage you guys are getting with the same style of truck on the highway and pulling a load.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Check out the last dozen posts or so!!! I'm a V10 guy myself (4.30 LSD). I'll give up the couple MPG for the extra power. The diesel is better for a PURE towing/work truck working max loads most of the time and for putting on a lot of miles. IMHO the diesels extra expense/maintenance, sluggishness, noise, smelliness, vibration rule it out for ME.
  • gtojerrygtojerry Member Posts: 2
    A couple of things. Why don't we have a topic just for PSD? Could it be I haven't found it.
    In 1999 I waited for the delivery of my new 99 CC 4WD PSD with a 3.73 LS for several months. During this time I read every posting I could on PSD. I think we even had a topic for PSD then.
    I read then where guys were getting 20+ MPG with their PSD with 4WD. I could only get around 14 to 15 at best on the open road with mine. While down in FL at a big RV show, a Ford executive with some Ford PSD engineers were down there and I was able to talk with them. The bottom line, I was getting the best fuel mileage that I could expect. They told me the problem was that I had 4WD. They said that adding 4 WD to a truck will cost one an average of 4 to 5 MPG. So very disappointed with the fuel mileage and 25000 miles on the truck, I sold it.
    Now I am again ready to take the plung and buy another diesel. I have read a lot of the posting on the new Durmax that GM has and have decided against it. Ford V10 and GM's new 8.1 gas seems like they are hungry for gas. I beleive the best I have seen on these two engines is around 13 MPG with some saying that they are getting 14 MPG. So that leaves me with Ford PSD, I won't even consider the Dodge with the Cummings. A friend had one and I could write a book on the Dodge.
    Now I am planning on getting a F250 2WD 3.73 rears. After reading through most of the posting I am still confused on what most of you are getting for Fuel mileage on the PSD with 2WD. Can any of you give me some figures and the type of driving you are doing?
    Also, I think I read in one posting where someone said that the truck will get a new front and new dash for 2002, has anyone seen anything on this?
    At the present Ford has a $1000 cash back on the in stock 2001. Any help with any of this will be greatly appreciated.
    gtojerry@bellsouth.net
  • bobsquatchbobsquatch Member Posts: 136
    I too am ordering a new cc 4X4 lb diesel. I here the psd with a manual tranny will get you into the high teens and up to 20mpg. Was your 99 an auto. I owned 3 vans and was getting 19 mpg out of their non turbo navistar diesel engines with 3 speed auto transmissions. They were 2wd though. Why are you against the dodge? I am leaning toward the psd but not 100% yet. Lastly has anyone hear of the psd fuel system problems. Could be just a rumor but would like to know before I settle on a ford.
  • gtojerrygtojerry Member Posts: 2
    Mark, my 99 was a auto. The truck was awsome to use Jeff Gordon's expression. I could have not asked for a better truck except for the fuel mileage. It had every option that Ford offered except for the Snow Plow and Ambulance package.
    As for as the Dodge goes, my buddy had nothing but problems with the truck after it got a few miles on it. The engine did not give him any trouble as far as I know, but other things such as rattles, mis alinement of the doors, problems with transmission (auto) and windshield wipers. Maybe he just got an lemon. This happens in all brands and models.
    I am now faced with the decision of waiting on the 2002 or going aheadd and buying a 2001. My salesman at the local dealership called last night and said he found me the truck like I wanted in TX. However, he could not get it shipped to his dealership, but since my family has bought seveal autos form him, he would call that dealer ship and get them to fax a copy of all the particules on the truck and he would give me the dealsrship adddress and I could drive over to TX about 900 miles from where we live and trade with that dealer. Pretty good of him, although he knows we will be buying more cars from him as long as he treats us right.
    I hope someone can answer the question about the 2002, I will drive over to the dealershipe this morning and ask him if he has heard anything about a new design front and dash.
    Good luck with yours, I know you will like it.
  • wpalkowskiwpalkowski Member Posts: 493
    Exterior:
    Jewel effect headlamp standard on XLT and Lariat
    Colors added:
    Arizona Beige
    Dark Shadow Grey
    Colors deleted:
    Harvest Gold
    Bright Amber
    Interior:
    Driver's side grab handle standard on all trims.
    Power Passenger Seat (Crew Cabs only)standard on Lariat, optional on XLT.
    XLT and up-New seats w/increased bolster height and shoulder width for greater comfort , and improved lumbar support system providing greater range of adjustment.

    Colors added:
    Medium Flint
    Colors deleted:
    Medium Graphite
    Dark Denim Blue
    Functional changes:
    Automatic transmission temperature gauge in instrument cluster (replaces battery gauge; battery light is retained).
    New air filter minder standard w/Powerstroke
    Upgrade from 5 to 6 speed manual transmission on both gas engines.
    Improved performance and shift feel of 6.8L Triton powertrains
    Option Program Changes:
    ADDED:
    Advanced Security Group (remote keyless entry, new auto lock and auto lamps) standard on Lariat, optional on XLT.
    Adjustable foot pedals available w/ automatic transmission on XLT and Lariat trims.
    REVISED:
    New forward fold feature on telescoping trailer tow mirrors available on XL trim w/ manual mirrors and XLT and Lariat trims w/
    power mirrors.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    There is a whole site dedicated exclusively to PSD owners.. Its a great site with loads of info and cool folks..
    www.ford-diesel.com

    As far as mileage. 4x4 vs 4x2 generally does not cost 4 or 5 mpgs, but usually in the 1 or 2 mpg range.. Auto tranny will also cost 1 or 2 mpgs as well..
    The BIGGEST difference in mpg's sometimes comes from driving style..
  • m1685m1685 Member Posts: 71
    Where did you find this info on the 2002 models? Any pictures?
  • badrammanbadramman Member Posts: 61
    Please don't knock Dodge based on your friends bad experience.
    Cummins will just about blow-away a PSD and will last longer, saw a '92 with 375kmi and no rebuild yet. Also, that 727 was NEVER designed to be used with a diesel. That was just stupidity on Dodge's part.
    IMHO anyone who buys a diesel with an auto tranny shouldn't be behind the wheel of one.(unless of course they have a physical disability and they can't use their left leg). What good does it do you? The manufacturers have to DETUNE the motor to save the tranny! There goes your towing capabilities. What about fuel mileage? You'll pick-up about 5-6mpg with a manual. There is no benefit to an auto on a diesel.
    Regarding the rattles and misalignment of the doors. All diesels that I know of rattle, it's a truck. The doors? loosen the hinges and move them until they are aligned. If he's not sure take it to the dealer.
    I'm not knocking Ford. I don't own one and I probably never will. To each his own. I just wanted to give you some Dodge facts before you write them off based on a friends experience.
    Thank You for letting me vent.
  • bobsquatchbobsquatch Member Posts: 136
    Are you sure about your power statement??? Ford is claiming 275hp Chevy 300 and I dont know about the dodge hp or the true test... the torque numbers. I do know that ford is measuring theirs after the tranny so its hard to compare apples to apples. (cheaters) Also it is important to know that one may feel more powerfull than another based on gearing/trans options.
  • wpalkowskiwpalkowski Member Posts: 493
    Got changes from a 2002 ordering guide. I have it in PDF format. Sorry no pictures.
  • ophusophus Member Posts: 4
    badramman,

    Are you aware that all makers of trucks now claim higher towing and hauling numbers for their automatic transmissions. That sort of blows holes in you theory about de-tuning the engines. And with torque converter lock-up now used on autos there is no deifference on highway mileage either.

    I am not tring to be nasty, but these are old hold over thoughts that were correct in the 70's and 80's, but 20 years of technology have erased the differences and actually given auto's the edge over manuals now.

    Now some people still prefer a manual over an auto and thats great because our differences are what make life interesting.

    John
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    In the 1/2 ton trucks the automatics are rated higher lagely because the clutches in the lighter duty trucks are very weak. In the 3/4 ton and 1 ton series trucks, the manual has the same rating as the automatic. Since they are physically lighter than the automatic, the manual actually has a slight edge.
  • bobsquatchbobsquatch Member Posts: 136
    Another factor is longevity. A manual will always last much longer than an auto given the required maintinance for each. The auto is much heavier as well so highway mileage will be affected. Also, the 70's and 80's 3 speed autos(particularly the ford c6 and chevy TH400 were fantastic transmissions. Only when both manufacturers went to overdrives did our reliability go away.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Both Dodge and Ford have lower power ratings for their automatic equipped diesels. As jc stated, only the half tons mix and match the tow ratings. all the 3/4 and 1 tons are the same tow ratings regardless of trans.

    Badram, in stock trim the PSD walks the Cummins and both get knocked out by the Duramax. Hopefully Ford/Navistar will be back on top with their next generation diesel. Right now the 7.3 is a lame duck. FYI, buddies diesel ram had all the text book problems; trans, front end, brakes etc. Dodge made excuses about tire sizes being too big!!!
  • rollinsfanaticrollinsfanatic Member Posts: 2
    I am still looking into getting a Super Duty, possibly a 2002, more likely a 2000-2001. I am currently driving an old GMC heavy 3/4 ton with a VERY THIRSTY 454(8mpg). This is my sole means of transport, the wife has the GOOD car. My turn is next, I plan to keep this truck for a LONG time(20 years??). I am interested in your views on what the best all around combo would be, majority of time will be driven as a commuter. However the wife has been making noises about getting a trailer, and I would like a boat. I no nothing about gear ratios so if someone could explain this to me I would be very thankful!!-Keith
  • 731450731450 Member Posts: 2
    Good used F250 are very hard to find in Wis. I am now looking at new 2001. My favorite dealer is suggesting I order a new 2002 thereby getting it equipped my way. Will be towing 25' TT and have determined that 6.8L V10 with 3:73 rear end and towing pkg will be more than adequate allowing for future up sizing with the TT. Seriously looked a Chevy Avalanche 2500 out in 2002, but the 8.1L Vortec scares me with poor mpg and realistically much more power than I need.
  • bobh12bobh12 Member Posts: 140
    kbb.com has 2002 pricing and option info
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    Your dealer is smart. Spending that much cash you are best off getting exactly what you want (ordered). People buying off the lot are usually less particular or in a hurry to get it over with.
  • 731450731450 Member Posts: 2
    Have discovered that by ordering a new vehicle the dealership will retain all of the manufacturers holdback(3% of MSRP). The holdback gradually reduces during the first 90 days a vehicle is on the lot. Moral is: A dealer in his right mind would be shrewd & wise to sell a factory order at invoice and receive the full holdback. Even greater profits if you have a trade in they can turn over quickly. The trade in is always where the dealer makes his bottom line, am I correct? Markups on new and other number games or designed to make the offer look good. Always know the wholesale and retail value of your trade in. ie; dealer sells ordered $33,000 vehicle for his invoice at $30,000(gets full holdback, $900)offers 10,000 for your $8500 trade, your cost is now 20,000+tx/fees. Dealer sells trade for wholesale $7000+. Win, win for both. You saved 3000 on sticker and got good value for the trade and the dealer made $7900.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    True, the dealer does well when you order a truck. However, remember that the dealer currently has vehicles on the lot that while they sit there they eat away at holdback.. So it's understandable that they will try to sell the vehicle on the lot if they can..

    I'm not in the car sales business, but I'm guessing that a majority of most dealers sales come from off the lot rather than customer orders. Otherwise there would be a trend of smaller and smaller showrooms, whereas it seems like dealers are trying to get bigger and bigger inventory..

    Also remember that dealer allotments are usually based on previous sales.. Those dealers with more sales get bigger allotments, allowing them to order more of the most popular combinations.
  • fordtuffordtuf Member Posts: 101
    Dealer sells a car for 7000 that they allowed 8500 for, loss of 1500. They get 900 for holdback.

    -1500 + 900 = -600.

    How did they make 7900 again?

    I have another option for you to get exactly the truck you want. Go to Ford's site "build" your truck and then send it to 5 dealerships within 300 miles of where you live. Someone is going to be hungry enough to get you exactly what you want.

    I live in Atlanta, once the dealership in my neighborhood found out what I was doing he was more than willing to find it for me instead of me doing it. They paid to have it transfered from just north of Nashville. Here's the best part, they added color matched steps, switched mirrors, threw in floor mats and two Ford Racing caps. All of this at 3,900 below MSRP. This price is at or below invoice.

    I know, my brother is a Ford salesman. Now you say, why didn't you buy from your brother? He is in Mobile and could not get it from Nashville. Secondly at that price the salesman didn't get hardly anything, probably a $50 minimum for a deal.

    Good luck. By the way, I'm jumping on a plane to go to Marathon. You know, cheese country.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Have discovered that by ordering a new vehicle the dealership will retain all of the manufacturers holdback(3% of MSRP). The holdback gradually reduces during the first 90 days a vehicle is on the lot. Moral is: A dealer in his right mind would be shrewd & wise to sell a factory order at invoice and receive the full holdback. Even greater profits if you have a trade in they can turn over quickly. The trade in is always where the dealer makes his bottom line, am I correct? Markups on new and other number games or designed to make the offer look good. Always know the wholesale and retail value of your trade in. ie; dealer sells ordered $33,000 vehicle for his invoice at $30,000(gets full holdback, $900)offers 10,000 for your $8500 trade, your cost is now 20,000+tx/fees. Dealer sells trade for wholesale $7000+. Win, win for both. You saved 3000 on sticker and got good value for the trade and the dealer made $7900.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    WTF are you talking about!!!!! If a dealer gives $10,000 for a trade and wholesales it for $7000, he LOSES $3000. Did you forget the dealer only collected $20,000 PLUS the trade to deliver a $30,000 truck????

    A dealer does not lose holdback at any time during the stocking of a vehicle. What most dealers do is what's called FLOOR their vehicles which is basically taking a loan out to keep vehicles in stock. The dealers have to pay the interest or "flooring" every month until the loan is paid. This is why some people think it best to buy at the end of a month.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    Its generally thought of that this is why the factory gives the holdbacks, to cover the cost of the interest while the vehicles are on the floor.
    So your right, the holdback amount doesn't change. But the amount the dealership had to pay while the vehicle sits on the floor does increase with time..

    (I didn't really look at his math numbers, but was more looking at the concepts he was trying to convey)

    After looking at the numbers, your right, they don't really add up..
    Going by exactly what he stated, the dealer lost $2100 (3000- the 900 he got from holdback).

    When I'm buying a vehicle, I try to treat the trade-in and the new vehicle as 2 different transactions.. It is common practice for dealerships to either give you nothing for the trade-in, and discount the new vehicle alot, or vice-versa.. I bet this is the 2nd oldest trick in the book..
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Of course you can say the holdback is for the flooring.......you can also say it's for advertising, office staff or the owners trip to Hawaii!!!

    The bottom line is the quoted post was flat goofy.

    If a dealer has a replaceable commodity it will make a deal. Case in point is I bought my '01 Super Duty off the lot a month ago for $300 over invoice and got $2000 back in rebates. Went shopping for a replacement for the Cobra this weekend and the Accura dealers wouldn't budge on their new just released models while there was LOTS of wheelin' on the Lexus GS and at the same time they were getting $7000 OVER sticker on the new SC430!!! It's all about supply and demand.

    Not sure if you know I was an F&I manager for what seems like an eternity but I know the bizz very well. $1000 back of wholesale is generally what the dealer will go on a trade so there is room for reconditioning, for the "pack" the dealer puts in for unexpected repairs and to make sure its in line for financing.

    When a customer comes in quoting Edmunds or KBB or other pro consumer sources SOME dealers will take that as a challenge and waste hours of your time. If you go in and quote car lingo like: roach, lay down, make a nickel....dime, OA, buried in a trade....and a few others, you usually get what you want fist pencil(that's another one, first pencil!!)
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    good point.. I hope the holdback isn't for advertising,, why else did they charge me FDAF :)

    You definately know the lingo better than me..

    The line the saleperson always lays on me is 'I'm only making $50 on this sale'.
    My response always is: 'thats between you and the dealership owner'

    hehe, I agree, the origional post was a bit goofy, but my guess is it was mostly poor writing to get his/her point across..

    Good to see on the boards again.
  • ophusophus Member Posts: 4
    I was just curious how you snagged rebates on a super duty, I have been keeping my eyes open but haven't seen anything so far.
    Ophus
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    It was strange!!!! The Nevada(Las Vegas) Ford dealers announced a $1000 rebate PLUS a $1000 commercial accounts rebate. The dealer I usually buy my Fords from in S. California didn't have the same rebates. I also looked at an Excursion because they had 00% financing for 60 months!!!! The Excursion still came out at about $30 more a month for a $7000 more vehicle but all past indicators point to the Super Duty being worth more in a few years than the Excursion in spite of the initial cost diff.

    It was pure luck also because I was sort of screwed out of my '00 Super Duty.(long story)

    I really looked hard at the 8.1/Allison combo but that came in at about $7000 more than the Super Duty because of the trans and no rebates.
  • bobh12bobh12 Member Posts: 140
    The Rocky Mountain, Denver area Ford dealers are advertising $1000 rebates on Super Duty's.
  • ophusophus Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the info I guess it a regional thing, I am aware of the commercial accounts rebates but around here it's only $500 or so they say.

    Thanks again
    Ophus
  • rkrobbinsrkrobbins Member Posts: 2
    I would like to know a rough estimate on mpg between the F250 and the F350. I am also looking at the difference in how the two ride. Is the ride better in F250 or is it about the same as the F350? I am looking at getting one of the two with a V10, CC, 4x4.
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