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I didn't order the PTO as I'm not getting a PTO winch or using a dump bed. If you are looking at using your truck as a dumptruck or like pto winchs then get it, otherwise save your money. The ZF tranny is made for mid size trucks that use pumps and what not so they need it. Most of us with the SD trucks have no need for a PTO. I plan on using my PTO plate for a temp gauge. Wally world has oil filters for $10. I'm still getting them from International for $13.50. Plan on ordering fuel filters from DIS at $13.16(case of 5)ea. To order go to www.dieselpage.com or look though ford-diesel.com. Just got back from Klamath Falls and got 17.5 mpg(empty). Plan on going to eastern Washington in a few weeks so will find out how my PSD does over the pass.
I just wanted to thank you all for your posts, the information was invaluable. The discussion of V8 vs. V10 vs. diesel convinced me to test drive all three engines and make my own decision. Anyway, today, I took the plunge and ordered "My Truck," a 2001 F-250 Super Cab 4X4 V10. I am looking forward to delivery of my truck like an expecting father. Hopefully, I wont have to wait 9 months!
Is there a mechanical reason why the 3.73 limited slip rear end is offered with a V-10 and automatic transmission and not a manual. Is this just a way for ford to get people to pay for the automatic.
You've got exactly the truck setup that I'm fixing to order. Now that you've had some road time with your rig, is there anything that you would have done different? This is a great message board with a wealth of info for some like myself getting ready to put my order in. Found out a lot of stuff that the dealer sure won't tell you.
I Negotiated a f250 4x4 sc for invoice - half holdback (3%, not bluoval). Dealer's paperwork charge was 298. So dealer made about $828 dollars. Decent deal? or should they stick a fork in me?
Either way I already took delivery. The truck lights look B-Bad... f250 psd 4x4 sc lb silver
Does anybody have any experience with both the 5.4L and the 351? I am looking at a 1997 F250 CC LB with a 351 and a 2000 with a 5.4L with the same setup. I'll use the truck to carry bulky, but light, equipment for work and occasionally a cabover camper. Any feedback is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Dan
My F250 PSD 2wd weighs 7000 lbs with me, full fuel and misc. tools, etc. stashed under the seats, yet has a GVWR of 8800 lbs. This math shows me only 1800 lbs can be carried before exceeding GVWR, yet Ford literature says "payload" is something like 3500 lbs. Similarly, the GCVWR with a gooseneck trailer is 20,000 lbs, which with my 7000 lb truck means the trailer could weigh up to 13,000. Assume 25% of this on the hitch and you've got a load of 3250 lbs (also bigger than 1800 lbs). Axle rating for the rear is about 6800 lbs. Assume half the empty truck (3500) is on the rear axle (which is generous with the PSD up front) plus the gooseneck load of 3250, and I'm OK on the axle at 6750 (although the E rated tires at full inflation are probably good for only 6000). So what the heck does (8800 - 7000) 1800 lbs mean anyway? Ford won't answer this question - refers me to the dealer.
Basically you answered your own question.. You can't pull that particular trailer with your truck because you'll exceed the GVWR.. Your not supposed to exceed any of the numbers. (GVWR, or GCVWR, or axle ratings)..
You can pull the 13k trailer, as long as it didn't put more than 1800 on the bed.. As you said, many 5th wheels will put 25% on the pin, but some might not..
As you see, with the F250, the payload is your limiting factor.. This is one reason many folks opt for the F350..(and sometimes F350 with DRW's).
In the Commercial vehicle brochure for the SuperDuty, the payload is not listed per 'engine' and tranny type, and we know the PSD is alot heavier than the 5.4L.. My truck (F250 SC 4x2 5.4L 5sp 4.10LS) is only weighing in around 5800lbs with me in it, and full of fuel.. So I'm much closer to the available 3k payload than you..
The dealer has another 'trailering guide' that has even more weights/dimensions listed..
Payload still seems to be an elusive concept, since even your 5800 plus 3500 is over the 8800 GVWR. I wonder if any truck can really haul its rated "payload" whatever that is.
This is a bit of a jungle, as I did have a 350 with its 1100 lbs more GVWR (and about that much more payload). Still had E rated tires, tho, which would be less suitable than with the 250.
My F250SD Crew Cab, V10, Auto, weighs 6696 with my toolbox, and is full of gasoline (29gals)I put a 200lb topper on it and now it weighs 6896lbs which leaves me 1894lbs before I hit GWVR. Then I add 5 people to the cab and 750# tongue weight to the back hitch for a TT trailer and this only leaves me 380 lbs before I meet the max GVWR. How in the devil is anyone ever going to pull a 5th wheel with this truck. Either you leave someone home or buy a smaller fifth wheel and a spare tent for sleeping quarters. Kinda puzzled!!!!! Trucks and advertising are very puzzling or the manufacturers are deceiving devils. Have a good day.
bemis: For my truck, they only list the payload at 3200 or something like that (not 3500).. So they were pretty close for my particular truck.. There no way for the manufacture to be 'exactly' on as the weight of hitches, fuel, tire choice, accessories (if you have brush guards, winches, cab steps etc) also count against gvwr.
I didn't understand the comment about e-rated tires being less suitable on the F350 than the F250? The same e-rated tires are available on both vehicles (standard on F350, option on F250), each tire is rated at 3500lbs at 70psi, so that would put them within reach of of the 7k you mentioned earlier.
frankno: I agree, pulling many 5th wheels will exceed the 8800 gvwr.. Its highly unlikely you'd have a 200lb topper when pulling a 5th wheel. So in your case, you could pull a 5th wheel that has a pin weight of less than 1200 lbs.. (1894lbs - 5 passengers).
I never saw it advertised that an F250 would pull all 5th wheels.. I suspect this is one reason you see mostly F350's pulling the big 5th's.. The difference in price between the F250 and F350 is only 500 or 600 dollars, so there's really no excuse for not buying the truck that fits one's needs..
Published payload ratings are usually taken for the lightest truck in its catagory. Example-An F250 regular cab with the 5.4 liter engine, base model, manual transmission, etc... All the manufacturers do the same. The published numbers can't be taken seriously because so few ever buy a vehicle like that. They can be used for general comparison between brands though.
bess: I did buy a truck that would fit my needs, I decided not to ever pull a fifth wheel as I wanted the storage space in the back of my truck more than the bed space of a fifth wheel. I wanted the ride of a 3/4 ton vs a 1 ton and with a Hensley hitch for the trailer, I have as much stability as one can get for the TT. I probably won't ever go over a 28' to 30' trailer so I won't ever exceed the GCWR or GVWR. My point is that between the truck manufacturers and the trailer factories one gets burned at least once in this trailer and truck buying experience. Maybe there should be more regulations on the publishing and more truth in advertising. Have a great day.
frankno. My opinion is the last thing we need is a govt regulation in a place where there really isn't a problem.. I'm sorry to hear about those stories where dealerships (both truck and trailer) say anything to get the sale.. As far as truth in advertising, I feel that Ford provides adaquate documentation to choose the correct vehicle for your needs.. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't buy the right truck for your needs.. I should have chosen better words..
jcmdie: in the truck brochure, Ford has the payload rating for truck chassis (F250, F350, F350DRW), each cab type (RC,SC,CC), each wheel base (SB,LB), and 4x4/4x2 combination..
The only significant thing they didn't take into account was engine choice, tranny choice and optional equipment. My guess is like you suggest that they use the 5.4L, 5sp, no options.. obviously the bigger kicker here is the PSD is quite a bit heavier than the 5.4L.
I'm not sure what documentation Chevy and Dodge produce, so I'm not sure if they're like Ford or not in their documentation and advertising claims.
This is just in the 2000 Ford sales brochure, I would suspect the trailering guide has even more info..
Bess: My point on the E tires (235's) is that they are rated for 3042 lbs. at 80 psi, so no way do you get to the 6830 axle rating for the SRW 250/350 shown in the 1999 literature. I just picked up the 2001 literature today, and lo and behold, the axle rating now shows 6084 lbs (3042 times 2) for the F250 but still 6830 lbs. for the F350. I haven't checked to see if the 265 tires are rated for more than 3042 lbs. in the E range, but I doubt it, so I don't know where you're getting your 3500 lb E's. My F350 did have E's on it, so I don't know how that truck complied with tire loading limits for E's. It would be nice to know what the front/back balance is on these trucks empty and loaded. I assume if you weigh each axle on a scale that the sum of the separate weights should equal the total truck weight.
I'd like to see the F250 SC that can haul the advertised 3575 lb payload, since this implies a truck that has a base curb weight (something the literature does not provide) of 5225 lbs. I'll bet the thing doesn't have a box on it, or at the very least no rear bumper, no spare, smallest fuel tank, etc. Maybe even no steering wheel. It would be one thing if the payload misleads you by a couple hundred pounds. In this case, it misleads by a factor of 100% comparing 1800 lbs to almost 3600 lbs. advertised. It is doubly misleading to advertise, on top, a 20,000 GCWR when the only way you could pull a gooseneck of 13,700 lbs (which, by the way, implies a truck weighing 6300 - wonder where that number came from??) would be to [non-permissible content removed]-load the thing to lighten up the hitch. Kind of ironic that GCWR goes up with horsepower, yet the vehicle's ability to haul the advertised trailer weight does DOWN with the increased horsepower. The PSD, for example, seems to add about 600 lbs. If the gooseneck multiplier (at 25% on the ball) penalizes towing capacity by a factor of 4 for every pound you add to the towing vehicle, the PSD should subtract 2400 lbs from the GCWR towing capacity just for its own weight. I guess they trust us all to load our trailers so the [non-permissible content removed]-end is just heavy enough.
bemis: I have the LT265 tires which I went out and looked at the rating when you posted. They have on them something like 3500lbs at 80psi.. (It wasn't an even 3500, but I forget the exact number). I wasn't aware that the 235 E rated tires only were at 3000 lbs, thats good info to know..
Also, listed right here on edmunds, 01 F250 XLT SC 5.4L 5sp 4.10ls: Maximum Payload: 2950 lbs. (not the 3500 you claimed that Ford said)
So I was not misled at all. I read the brochure that applied to the particular truck I was looking at.
I'm not sure what advertising your looking at. The 2000 Commercial vehicle brochure (which has my truck), the stated number is less than the 3500 you claim..
I would bet there are advertisements that claim that Ford F-Series can haul 3500 lbs, and tow 13k. And properply equipped from the factory, they can. Not EVERY truck will be capabable of this..
Saying that you can pull a goose neck of 13.5k does not imply the truck weighs 6.5k, they probably did try to account for some pin weight..
Again, you are exactly right that the on the F250, the payload limitation will affect the ability to handle the bigger trailers, and is impacted even more with the added weight of the diesel..
This is not unusual or even mis-leading. This trend is the same with every 3/4 ton truck on the market (f250, ram 2500, silverado 2500).
Your last statement is right on, " I guess they trust us all to load our trailers so the [non-permissible content removed]-end is just heavy enough."
I like the fact that they provide their customers with enough documentation to be able to determine whether their trailer application will fit the truck your buying. Each towing situation is unique and needs to be left up to the customer.
I'm positive you'll be as happy with your 01 V-10,CC,4X4,SB,4.30 Lim Slip, (Harvest Gold) as I have been. Got it with the chrome steps and that worked out great as my 5 year old can get in and out of the Truck alone. Had my SD since Nov 1, and have had Zero problems. Ford sure makes it easy to install the Elec Brake Controller too . Took me about an hour. The Truck sure has plenty of power, went on my first camping trip and it pulled my 27 foot Prowler rather easily. Jumped on the CAT scale at the TTT here in Tucson and weighed #13,400 lbs. Wouldn't change anything if I could. If you can, be sure and get the six disc CD changer. They work great. Anyway, Got three boys 12, 9 and the 5 year old and they have plenty of room in the back. In fact there are times that Mama and I swear we're driving alone. ha ha If you do alot of hwy driving, 75 mph +,, and occational towing #5000 lbs or less, maybe you should consider the 3:73 rear end. We'll talk at you later.
Bess - page 41 of the 1999 Ford truck brochure lists 3520 lb payload for F250 SRW SC. Page 20 of the 2001 brochure lists 3575 lb payload for the same. Similarly, at page 43 the 99 book shows 13,800 and at page 21 the 01 book shows 13,700 for gooseneck trailer loads. All of the above for 4x2 PSD. No hint of losing 2400 lbs. of capacity because you have a 600 lb. heavier PSD engine. In fact, in the ratings listings the bigger engine appears to give you significantly more capacity.
I guess part of my gripe is too much information, and not enough explanation. A couple of examples (like the conversation we've been having) showing how these various ratings interact would not hurt anything. In fact, since most people seem to be po'd that the thing won't do what they want once they get it, a little more info would probably move more people UPmarket. Considering the price range we're in already, the couple of hundred to take you to the 350 is nothing. I'll admit I'm aggravated because I left a 5.4L 350 for a PSD 250 because I wanted the diesel economy, and based on the literature it looked like I was gaining significant trailering capacity; in fact there was little net gain unless I become a fanatic about trailer loading. I'm already contributing to the college education of the local farm scale operator's kids:-) Better informed purchasing would make for a LOT more happy customers, and would contribute to safer trailering overall since people won't be pushing their rigs, either knowingly or (more likely) unknowingly. The F250 axle rating at 6830 shown in the 1999 literature is a good example, given that the trucks are equipped with tires capable of handling only 6084. Since you sound like you might know someone at Ford, you might pass on (or maybe they will read it here anyway), the last thing Ford needs right now is more lawsuits alleging tire failures from overloads. A little more forthrightness and examples in the literature wouldn't hurt. The average dealer salesperson, or even dealer management person doesn't have the expertise to address these issues. Ford has to do it.
I did mis-read my brochure.. It does in fact say that F250 SC 4x2 141.8 wheelbase has a payload of 3560.. (the long wheelbase says 3345).
I guess it would be nice if Ford put a sticker on each truck saying how much it can haul, and tow. But I can see cases that even if they did this, the owner would still need to do basically the same homework to insure that the trailer is balanced right, and take into account hitch weights etc..
Figuring all of that out is a service, and I think the dealerships should provide it..
btw, my truck tires (stock from factory LT265) say max load of 3415 at 80psi. So reaching 6800 on the axle's isn't limited by the tires..
This topic has been a little slow anyway. It nice to see some civil exchange of opinions and ideas.
Manufacturers have always printed information in sales brochures that are not incorrecet but misleading as to the fact that those numbers are best possible and under ideal conditions. The axles being rated higher than the tires is simple, if they had tires with printed load ratings that was higher than the axle rating avilable as an option then surely the axle must handle the weight. Probably the biggest problem is that the payload is the GVWR less its empty weight and with all the multitude of options and configurations it IS difficult to determine the truck's actual weight. By the way my truck (not aFord super duty) did have the payload for my specific truck printed and labled on my truck. And, yes it was less than I expected.
I feel the truck/trailer experience is horrible, you almost need to be a Philadelphia lawyer with witnesses before you go into dealerships. You must read and read the manuals just to make sure they have not inter?????? you. I think the suggestion that all vehicles must show the real weight capacity and towing capacity is a fine one.
I know I should know this but I'm trying to decide if I need a 3/4 or 1/2 ton truck. I want to buy a truck to pull a 5th wheel camper an enclosed trailer (yes both at the same time) my total weight will be less that 10,000lbs. I wont be driving far (200 miles ax) and I wont be driving often maybe 10 weekends per year, so a rough ride does not bother me.
I'm looking at old truck 1989 - 1992 but so for I have not found one with an extended cab for my kids.
What goes into the thought process of deciding F150 of F250?
Are you talking about a slide in camper and a tag along or a fifth wheel and a tag along? I don't see two campers in any configuration at the same time. Even if it were possible to hook two up at the same time, the F150 would be about 3,000# past its towing limit.
For sure you're looking for at least an F250. Depending on how big the 5th wheel is (how much pin weight), you may need to go to the F350. No need to fear, the cost is only about $600 more, and they both ride the same when empty..
In thinking of buying a Ford F250 Super Duty truck with a 5.4 V-8 engine, I'm torn between purchasing that or an F 150 with the same size engine with a trailor hauling package. I will be pulling a 1996 Jayco 25 foot camper trailor. I'm retiring soon and I would be pulling it in mountain areas out west and possible long trips. What would be better? They say the Super Duty rides like a lumber wagon and doesn't have the smooth ride of the XLT F 150.
The F150 will have a softer ride as it is being sold as a lighter duty truck that is frequently used as a car (daily transport). As Bess said the Super Duty is firmer, more capable, and more stable on the road, especilly towing. They are both good trucks but are designed for different people and purposes. I would opt for the F350 because that's where MY needs are taking me. The ride of the F150 may be an important enough factor for to go that way. The Super duty is stiffer for a reason.
Thanks for the great exchange and information/opinion by bess and bemis on ratings. It was a good exchange and I learned a lot from all the inputs. I agree that it would be great to know all this ahead of buying time, but the one ingredient that is missing is how much your particular truck weighs. And, until you order it, get it, personalize it, and finally weigh it, this is the unknown item.
Having said that, when I ordered our 01' F250, PSD, SC, 4X4, 141.8, auto, etc. my dealer said it would weigh about 6500 lbs fuel full. I had to rely on their truthfulness and knowledge to know if I needed the 250 or 350. What else can one do? Regardless, we tow a 32' 5th wheel with a hitch weight of about 2000lbs, a dry weight of 9900, and a GVWR of 13,000. These weights are within the max payload rating (3135) and max loaded trailer weight (13,200) of the 250, barely, and unless the truck weighs more then the dealer said, or I put a lot of "stuff" in the truck and trailer, I should be OK. I am sure there is a fudge factor in all this of at least 10 percent and as long as the tires and axle ratings add up to much more then the 8800 lbs GVWR it should be OK. Like bess said, my "E" rated 265's are at 3415 @ 80 psi and the axles are rear-6084 @ 70 psi, and front 4400 @ 55 psi. Since it seems the single limiting factor is the spring rating of 8800, I am not worried. Happy towing to all.
I was looking for a truck to tow both a two-horse trailer or a one car trailer. The local dealer steered me to the F250 over the F150. As has been stated, the F150 is being sold as a light duty. and it does have a softer ride - I preferred the ride of the F250. The 150 felt too carlike - the F250 felt like...a truck! He also said the F250 would be far more durable and would should last far longer. The clincher was when the F150 was priced out, it was only about $1k cheaper than the F150.
I've had it now for about a month (got it in six weeks! The dealer said it would be eight) and could not be happier.
I ordered a 01' F-250 Lariat CC LWB PSD on Feb 3. The factory claims it was shipped March 3 with an ETA to the dealer of March 28. Presently, it has not arrived & the dealer does not know where it is. They say they tried contacting Ford with no results. It will be 12 weeks in 3 days. Aren't these vehicles trackable? Perhaps Ford could learn a thing or two from Fed-X. I need to be assured that it will be delivered.
Thanks for the info and glad to hear that your happy with your F-250. What kind of gas mileage do you get when you're not pulling your Prowler? I'm more curious than anything else because I'm definitely getting the V-10. Since it's pretty close to the end of the model year, I'll be ordering my rig as soon as the dealer will take orders for the 2002 model.
Anyone have anything good or bad to say about spray-on liners like Line-X or Rhino liners? How about roll top covers like Roll-N-Lock or the one that Pace-Edwards makes? I like the fiberglass covers but it seems like they'd be a pain in the neck if you had to haul something tall.
I am waiting to see the new 250 SD '02s to replace the 1990 150 with 322000 miles. While waiting, I wonder what use the reverse sensing system would be, or is it an expensive toy that I don't need. Just dreaming.
Waynew2, I also own a 1997 Jayco 25ft with a front slide out. Last summer I pulled it thru Colorado and New Mexico mountains with a Toyota Tundra V8 1/2 truck. It had all the towing package and transmission coolers etc. etc. I now own a Ford F250 SD V10. The half ton body and frame was to light. The engine did well on the flatlands but in the hills it was a nightmare, there was times when I really sweated out getting over some of the passes. The GWVR of the trailer is 7300#'s and was too much for a 1/2 ton, anybodys half ton. I would recommend a 3/4 ton Ford minimum. Hope this helps.
Was trying to decide between 150 and 250---don't do any real hauling but just wanted a truck that looks the part---the 150 just doesn't look like a real truck like my old 87 Chevy Silverado---Really want the V10 of the 250---when are the 2002 Super Duty 250s coming out---would really like to order the next model if not too long from now---thanks for the help!
Not sure from the way it was posted whether you got the idea---does anybody have a date for the new 2002 Super Duty trucks and any info on changes or addition of options from the ones offered in 2001? thanks!
I've decided on everything else, but I'm still debating on the engine size. Does anyone have any recommendations with regard to this?
I'm inclinded to stick with the stock 5.4L V8, but I've read that the only difference between it and its larger V10 brother is maybe 1-2 MPG and that it's actually better to get the V10 simply because this is a whole lot of truck.
I saw a site last week that had the changes for the 2002, I'll see if I can find it and post it, but from what I remember, the design of the headlights are changing, a power seat for the passenger, a new security package. I have a Y2k CC with a 5.4 with 4.1LS it does what I ask of it in pulling but I may go to a 2002 V10 or go into Dodge's new crew cab, haven't decided, but one thing for sure I'll not buy from my last ford dealer.........
You might check out carsdirect.com if you're unhappy with the local dealer experience (I know I am). You can build your own rig and they simply take $600 over invoice as their cut which, I suppose, is reasonable. A hell of a lot better than trying to haggle with sales guys trying to get it down that low.
I order any GM/Ford/Dodge I want from a dealer in South Georgia at $300 over invoice and never give them any $$$ until I see the vehicle and tell them I want it---fact is the last vehicle I ordered he gave me the keys and thanked me before I reminded him that he needed to be paid---great experience---have done business with them for 14 years---they work by salary and not commission---I am sure you should be able to find such a dealer where you live---I would ask around
PS---If anyone can tell me where to find the new options/changes on the Ford Super Duty F250 for the year 2002 please email me if possible---thanks! Tom at TSSawyer@aol.com
Engine choice should really be based on what you want to do with the truck.. Although the SuperDuty is 'alot of truck', in some configurations the SuperDuty weighs about as much as an Expedition SUV which runs just find with the 5.4L.
More opinions of mine: 5.4L: - if your towing needs are light (by superduty standards) - if your towing needs are infrequent - works really well with the 5sp manual. (and I hear a 6sp tranny will be available in 2002). (I'm not a fan of automatic trannys anyway. The 4r100 seems to take up more of the 5.4L power, causing it to shift more often than I prefered). - 4.10 ratio is a preference of mine. mileage is excellent (better than an Expedition), power is excellent.. (Think of an F150 with the 4.6L). - is not 'underpowered' as some folks might claim.
V10: - need to tow heavy - need to tow often - works well with 5sp and auto tranny.. - 3.73 works for most folks, unless you really need extra towing capacity or you plan to install larger aftermarket tires) - is an awsome engine with more power than the 5.4L (duh), but at a price of 2 mpg's city and 1mpg highway (best case)
Again, the above is just my opinion..
00 F250 xlt SC 4x2 5.4L 5sp 4.10LS overall mpg for life of the truck 15.5
3.73= for every 3.73 revolutions of the driveshaft, the tires go 1.
so, when you go to a higher rear diff ratio (numerically) the engine will be at a higher RPM for a given speed, than a lower ratio.. Rpm at 65mph: (stock tires) 3.73 = 1900 rpms 4.10 = 2100 rpms
The higher ratios (numerically) give more of a 'punch' and increase towing capacity, but if you run too high of a ratio it can use more fuel and affect mpg..
The lower ratios can increase mpg's (if you do alot of highway driving), but if your towing or doing alot of city driving, the tranny may have to shift down a little more often if the rpm's drop too low.. (thus negating any mpg advantage in the city or while towing).
Limited slip: (this is an oversimplified description): With a normal diff (open diff), basically only as much torque is applied to the ground as the wheel with the least resistance will support.. Ok, in english, only one rear wheel spins, the one thats on the slipperier surface).
With the limited slip diff, even the wheel that on the more solid surface gets some extra torque. It doesn't get as much as if the diff was fully locked up (like if it was a solid axle), but more than an open diff.
So, if one wheel is in mud, and the other on dry pavement: with the open-diff, your stuck. With the limited slip diff, you might get out..
To summarize my rambling: 4x2 without LS = 1 wheel drive 4x2 with LS = 2 wheel drive (both rears) 4x4 without LS = 2 wheel drive (1 front, 1 rear) 4x4 with LS = 3 wheel drive (1 front, both rears)
Comments
Wally world has oil filters for $10. I'm still getting them from International for $13.50. Plan on ordering fuel filters from DIS at $13.16(case of 5)ea. To order go to www.dieselpage.com or look though ford-diesel.com. Just got back from Klamath Falls and got 17.5 mpg(empty). Plan on going to eastern Washington in a few weeks so will find out how my PSD does over the pass.
Did you change shocks, and if so how do you like the new ones?
I Negotiated a f250 4x4 sc for invoice - half holdback (3%, not bluoval). Dealer's paperwork charge was 298. So dealer made about $828 dollars. Decent deal? or should they stick a fork in me?
Either way I already took delivery. The truck lights look B-Bad... f250 psd 4x4 sc lb silver
Thanks,
Dan
You can't pull that particular trailer with your truck because you'll exceed the GVWR..
Your not supposed to exceed any of the numbers. (GVWR, or GCVWR, or axle ratings)..
You can pull the 13k trailer, as long as it didn't put more than 1800 on the bed.. As you said, many 5th wheels will put 25% on the pin, but some might not..
As you see, with the F250, the payload is your limiting factor.. This is one reason many folks opt for the F350..(and sometimes F350 with DRW's).
In the Commercial vehicle brochure for the SuperDuty, the payload is not listed per 'engine' and tranny type, and we know the PSD is alot heavier than the 5.4L..
My truck (F250 SC 4x2 5.4L 5sp 4.10LS) is only weighing in around 5800lbs with me in it, and full of fuel.. So I'm much closer to the available 3k payload than you..
The dealer has another 'trailering guide' that has even more weights/dimensions listed..
This is a bit of a jungle, as I did have a 350 with its 1100 lbs more GVWR (and about that much more payload). Still had E rated tires, tho, which would be less suitable than with the 250.
For my truck, they only list the payload at 3200 or something like that (not 3500).. So they were pretty close for my particular truck.. There no way for the manufacture to be 'exactly' on as the weight of hitches, fuel, tire choice, accessories (if you have brush guards, winches, cab steps etc) also count against gvwr.
I didn't understand the comment about e-rated tires being less suitable on the F350 than the F250? The same e-rated tires are available on both vehicles (standard on F350, option on F250), each tire is rated at 3500lbs at 70psi, so that would put them within reach of of the 7k you mentioned earlier.
frankno:
I agree, pulling many 5th wheels will exceed the 8800 gvwr.. Its highly unlikely you'd have a 200lb topper when pulling a 5th wheel.
So in your case, you could pull a 5th wheel that has a pin weight of less than 1200 lbs.. (1894lbs - 5 passengers).
I never saw it advertised that an F250 would pull all 5th wheels.. I suspect this is one reason you see mostly F350's pulling the big 5th's..
The difference in price between the F250 and F350 is only 500 or 600 dollars, so there's really no excuse for not buying the truck that fits one's needs..
I did buy a truck that would fit my needs, I decided not to ever pull a fifth wheel as I wanted the storage space in the back of my truck more than the bed space of a fifth wheel. I wanted the ride of a 3/4 ton vs a 1 ton and with a Hensley hitch for the trailer, I have as much stability as one can get for the TT. I probably won't ever go over a 28' to 30' trailer so I won't ever exceed the GCWR or GVWR. My point is that between the truck manufacturers and the trailer factories one gets burned at least once in this trailer and truck buying experience. Maybe there should be more regulations on the publishing and more truth in advertising. Have a great day.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't buy the right truck for your needs.. I should have chosen better words..
jcmdie: in the truck brochure, Ford has the payload rating for truck chassis (F250, F350, F350DRW), each cab type (RC,SC,CC), each wheel base (SB,LB), and 4x4/4x2 combination..
The only significant thing they didn't take into account was engine choice, tranny choice and optional equipment. My guess is like you suggest that they use the 5.4L, 5sp, no options.. obviously the bigger kicker here is the PSD is quite a bit heavier than the 5.4L.
I'm not sure what documentation Chevy and Dodge produce, so I'm not sure if they're like Ford or not in their documentation and advertising claims.
This is just in the 2000 Ford sales brochure, I would suspect the trailering guide has even more info..
I'd like to see the F250 SC that can haul the advertised 3575 lb payload, since this implies a truck that has a base curb weight (something the literature does not provide) of 5225 lbs. I'll bet the thing doesn't have a box on it, or at the very least no rear bumper, no spare, smallest fuel tank, etc. Maybe even no steering wheel. It would be one thing if the payload misleads you by a couple hundred pounds. In this case, it misleads by a factor of 100% comparing 1800 lbs to almost 3600 lbs. advertised. It is doubly misleading to advertise, on top, a 20,000 GCWR when the only way you could pull a gooseneck of 13,700 lbs (which, by the way, implies a truck weighing 6300 - wonder where that number came from??) would be to [non-permissible content removed]-load the thing to lighten up the hitch. Kind of ironic that GCWR goes up with horsepower, yet the vehicle's ability to haul the advertised trailer weight does DOWN with the increased horsepower. The PSD, for example, seems to add about 600 lbs. If the gooseneck multiplier (at 25% on the ball) penalizes towing capacity by a factor of 4 for every pound you add to the towing vehicle, the PSD should subtract 2400 lbs from the GCWR towing capacity just for its own weight. I guess they trust us all to load our trailers so the [non-permissible content removed]-end is just heavy enough.
Also, listed right here on edmunds, 01 F250 XLT SC 5.4L 5sp 4.10ls:
Maximum Payload: 2950 lbs. (not the 3500 you claimed that Ford said)
So I was not misled at all. I read the brochure that applied to the particular truck I was looking at.
I'm not sure what advertising your looking at. The 2000 Commercial vehicle brochure (which has my truck), the stated number is less than the 3500 you claim..
I would bet there are advertisements that claim that Ford F-Series can haul 3500 lbs, and tow 13k. And properply equipped from the factory, they can. Not EVERY truck will be capabable of this..
Saying that you can pull a goose neck of 13.5k does not imply the truck weighs 6.5k, they probably did try to account for some pin weight..
Again, you are exactly right that the on the F250, the payload limitation will affect the ability to handle the bigger trailers, and is impacted even more with the added weight of the diesel..
This is not unusual or even mis-leading. This trend is the same with every 3/4 ton truck on the market (f250, ram 2500, silverado 2500).
Your last statement is right on,
" I guess they trust us all to load our trailers so the [non-permissible content removed]-end is just heavy enough."
I like the fact that they provide their customers with enough documentation to be able to determine whether their trailer application will fit the truck your buying. Each towing situation is unique and needs to be left up to the customer.
If you do alot of hwy driving, 75 mph +,, and occational towing #5000 lbs or less, maybe you should consider the 3:73 rear end. We'll talk at you later.
I guess part of my gripe is too much information, and not enough explanation. A couple of examples (like the conversation we've been having) showing how these various ratings interact would not hurt anything. In fact, since most people seem to be po'd that the thing won't do what they want once they get it, a little more info would probably move more people UPmarket. Considering the price range we're in already, the couple of hundred to take you to the 350 is nothing. I'll admit I'm aggravated because I left a 5.4L 350 for a PSD 250 because I wanted the diesel economy, and based on the literature it looked like I was gaining significant trailering capacity; in fact there was little net gain unless I become a fanatic about trailer loading. I'm already contributing to the college education of the local farm scale operator's kids:-) Better informed purchasing would make for a LOT more happy customers, and would contribute to safer trailering overall since people won't be pushing their rigs, either knowingly or (more likely) unknowingly. The F250 axle rating at 6830 shown in the 1999 literature is a good example, given that the trucks are equipped with tires capable of handling only 6084. Since you sound like you might know someone at Ford, you might pass on (or maybe they will read it here anyway), the last thing Ford needs right now is more lawsuits alleging tire failures from overloads. A little more forthrightness and examples in the literature wouldn't hurt. The average dealer salesperson, or even dealer management person doesn't have the expertise to address these issues. Ford has to do it.
I guess it would be nice if Ford put a sticker on each truck saying how much it can haul, and tow. But I can see cases that even if they did this, the owner would still need to do basically the same homework to insure that the trailer is balanced right, and take into account hitch weights etc..
Figuring all of that out is a service, and I think the dealerships should provide it..
btw, my truck tires (stock from factory LT265) say max load of 3415 at 80psi. So reaching 6800 on the axle's isn't limited by the tires..
This topic has been a little slow anyway. It nice to see some civil exchange of opinions and ideas.
Thats my opinion.
I'm looking at old truck 1989 - 1992 but so for I have not found one with an extended cab for my kids.
What goes into the thought process of deciding F150 of F250?
I actually prefered the ride of the Superduty compared to the F150. It is a bit more firm when empty, but not jolting.. Take one for a testdrive.
You also get a bit more interior space in addition to the exterior hauling/towing capacity..
Having said that, when I ordered our 01' F250, PSD, SC, 4X4, 141.8, auto, etc. my dealer said it would weigh about 6500 lbs fuel full. I had to rely on their truthfulness and knowledge to know if I needed the 250 or 350. What else can one do? Regardless, we tow a 32' 5th wheel with a hitch weight of about 2000lbs, a dry weight of 9900, and a GVWR of 13,000. These weights are within the max payload rating (3135) and max loaded trailer weight (13,200) of the 250, barely, and unless the truck weighs more then the dealer said, or I put a lot of "stuff" in the truck and trailer, I should be OK. I am sure there is a fudge factor in all this of at least 10 percent and as long as the tires and axle ratings add up to much more then the 8800 lbs GVWR it should be OK. Like bess said, my "E" rated 265's are at 3415 @ 80 psi and the axles are rear-6084 @ 70 psi, and front 4400 @ 55 psi. Since it seems the single limiting factor is the spring rating of 8800, I am not worried. Happy towing to all.
I've had it now for about a month (got it in six weeks! The dealer said it would be eight) and could not be happier.
I'm inclinded to stick with the stock 5.4L V8, but I've read that the only difference between it and its larger V10 brother is maybe 1-2 MPG and that it's actually better to get the V10 simply because this is a whole lot of truck.
I'd sure appreciate any advice.
Cheers,
-Charlie
edmunds@linuxninja.org
Cheers,
-Charlie
edmunds @ linuxninja.org
PS: Thanks for the engine info
PS---If anyone can tell me where to find the new options/changes on the Ford Super Duty F250 for the year 2002 please email me if possible---thanks! Tom at TSSawyer@aol.com
Although the SuperDuty is 'alot of truck', in some configurations the SuperDuty weighs about as much as an Expedition SUV which runs just find with the 5.4L.
More opinions of mine:
5.4L:
- if your towing needs are light (by superduty standards)
- if your towing needs are infrequent
- works really well with the 5sp manual. (and I hear a 6sp tranny will be available in 2002).
(I'm not a fan of automatic trannys anyway. The 4r100 seems to take up more of the 5.4L power, causing it to shift more often than I prefered).
- 4.10 ratio is a preference of mine. mileage is excellent (better than an Expedition), power is excellent.. (Think of an F150 with the 4.6L).
- is not 'underpowered' as some folks might claim.
V10:
- need to tow heavy
- need to tow often
- works well with 5sp and auto tranny..
- 3.73 works for most folks, unless you really need extra towing capacity or you plan to install larger aftermarket tires)
- is an awsome engine with more power than the 5.4L (duh), but at a price of 2 mpg's city and 1mpg highway (best case)
Again, the above is just my opinion..
00 F250 xlt SC 4x2 5.4L 5sp 4.10LS overall mpg for life of the truck 15.5
What's the difference between the 4.10 and the 3.73 axle ratios? And what benefit, if any, does the limited slip axle provide?
Thanks again for all your help.
Cheers,
-Charlie
edmunds @ linuxninja.org
3.73= for every 3.73 revolutions of the driveshaft, the tires go 1.
so, when you go to a higher rear diff ratio (numerically) the engine will be at a higher RPM for a given speed, than a lower ratio..
Rpm at 65mph: (stock tires)
3.73 = 1900 rpms
4.10 = 2100 rpms
The higher ratios (numerically) give more of a 'punch' and increase towing capacity, but if you run too high of a ratio it can use more fuel and affect mpg..
The lower ratios can increase mpg's (if you do alot of highway driving), but if your towing or doing alot of city driving, the tranny may have to shift down a little more often if the rpm's drop too low.. (thus negating any mpg advantage in the city or while towing).
Limited slip: (this is an oversimplified description):
With a normal diff (open diff), basically only as much torque is applied to the ground as the wheel with the least resistance will support.. Ok, in english, only one rear wheel spins, the one thats on the slipperier surface).
With the limited slip diff, even the wheel that on the more solid surface gets some extra torque. It doesn't get as much as if the diff was fully locked up (like if it was a solid axle), but more than an open diff.
So, if one wheel is in mud, and the other on dry pavement: with the open-diff, your stuck.
With the limited slip diff, you might get out..
To summarize my rambling:
4x2 without LS = 1 wheel drive
4x2 with LS = 2 wheel drive (both rears)
4x4 without LS = 2 wheel drive (1 front, 1 rear)
4x4 with LS = 3 wheel drive (1 front, both rears)
I hope this helps
Cheers,
-Charlie
Here's a link for the changes to Superduties for 2002.
http://www.sunrisefordfleet.com/guides/