"I made a 5 inch platform for the dogs in my new CR-V. I used thick pieces of 4 foot styrofoam, batting material that you find for cushions, and then covered it in light gray material to match the interior."
Years ago did something similar to that. Built a frame and hinged the plywood covering (2 piece) so they could be opened from the top. The end next to the back door was left open.
Great storage for suitcases and such as it was about a foot high. Covered it with carpet closely matching the car carpet.
Looking in thru a window it looked like the rear floorboard as it ran from the back door to the back of the front seat.
Amazing what we can do when we set our minds to it!
I've read a lot about them in Consumer Reports. I just bought my CRV today (07) and the dealer said the NAV wouldn't be out until January. Downside: costs a lot more, upgrade disks for updated maps are $185, not portable from car to car. Upside: not likely to be a projectile in an accident. CR highly recommended the Garmin Nuvi 350, which I also just bought. It is very user friendly, once I figured out the gray square on the back was the antenna (it didn't look like an antenna to me). It has a lot of rich detail, a choice of voices (male/female, British/Aussi/US) and I like the fact we can move it from car to car. Just a thought, but if you really love the leather and the EX-L accessories I think it's only $2K more for the NAV.
omg........yours sounds very extravagant!!You probably could have sold it in some dog magazine!! Mine, however, is very crude, even though it serves its purpose.
I may be the only one, but I never even noticed the front end (and hubby &I just bought one each). I was looking at the front this afternoon checking all the lights before we drove it off the lot and it didn't cross my mind. Now I've read the chatter and seen pics, I think it's kind of cute. It looks like it's smiling. Don't flame me!
I loved the Acura RDX on paper.. didn't even mind the price... as replacement for my 2001 Lexus RX300. But drove it and hated the hard ride and am turned off by bad mileage reports.
Will drive CR-V EX-L next weekend. Anybody else cross shop these? How's the handling, highway ride over time... how does (mostly) FWD AWD system work in bad weather? We do mostly long-ish trips as a family of three. Like the cargo room, rear legroom.
FYI, also considering Subaru Tribeca, but too big and Honda ergonomics win hands down. Your thoughts welcome.
I am sure you will like the CR-V in general. It handles very well and is adequately powered. However, if you are used to a Lexus-quality interior, you may be dissapointed in that aspect of the CR-V. It's a notch below the RDX in terms of materials and quality.
omg........yours sounds very extravagant!!You probably could have sold it in some dog magazine!! Mine, however, is very crude, even though it serves its purpose.
Visualizing yours as being basically a 5" thick wall to wall cushion.
Probably light weight and easy to remove, if you need the extra depth.
Seems like a good plan.
Mine was bolted down and would have been real troublesome to remove. :sick:
However, the rest of the story is that new power tools were on the scene. One way or another, some wood was going to be cut, planed, drilled, screwed, and whatever.
If "Necessity is the mother of invention" , then New tools and idle hands may be the "Daddy".
"I may be the only one, but I never even noticed the front end (and hubby &I just bought one each)..., ... I think it's kind of cute. It looks like it's smiling. Don't flame me!"
Obviously others share your view, as the 07 CR-V seems to be selling well!
Remembering back to the early 90s. Dodge trucks were rugged but not selling well. The "LOOK" had been around a long time and change was very much needed.
The 94 Rams were a radical change with their' "muscle lines", and "BIG RIG" style grill. It was instant success or failure, according to the eyes looking at it.
We liked it. Bought a new one in 96 and another in 98.
I actually like the bold new "look" of the 07 CR-V. The grill is different but nice! Can't decide if it is smiling or smirking!
I agree about the NAVI. I also own an '04 Lexus LS430 with NAV. But I never, ever use it! I use my portable Garmin (4 years old...time for a new one) that I am comfortable with and can swap from car to car.
If a car CAME WITH a NAV and/or it was a cheap option, I would not avoid that car just because of that. But the portable NAV seems to be more practical and the learning curve transfers with you from car to car.
Reactive system? ie: You have a front wheel drive car. The front wheels start to spin. Power is tranfered to the rear wheels and shazam! You now have a rear wheel drive car.
I've driven them both. Honda's four-cylinder engines are incredibly smooth. I didn't have a problem with the ride of the RDX or the CR-V, so I didn't really pick up on (or try to pick up on) any differences between the two. Handling on the CR-V is very good, but not as good as the RDX. To me, the CR-V is a little underpowered [1], but in its defense, it gets better mileage, drinks regular fuel, and you don't have the maintenance issues of a turbocharger [2].
[1] There are exceptions, but I generally find that anything that takes longer than 8 seconds to get from 0-60 to be underpowered.
[2] Not sure if Acura requires it, but I am of the belief that turbocharged engines need synthetic oil because the turbos have a tendency to cook and sludge regular oil, whereas it's not absolutely necessary with normally-aspirated engines.
The RDX does use synthetic, but not for the reason you cite. Turbos have not had that problem (called coking) for over 20 years, since manufacturers started using liquid cooled bearings in the turbocharger. For that particular problem, both conventional and synthetic oils would be affected equally.
I am not real knowledgeable about the older RX300's awd, but both the CR-V and the RX awd systems are very basic, meant to enhance traction on slippery roads. The RDX adds SH-AWD, which will improve handling (significantly) on dry roads, in addition to enhancing slippery road traction. All of these systems are FWD-biased. Only the RDX is proactive, the others are purely reactive.
As you noted, the Subaru's system is RWD-biased. It can vary power around to enhance traction as needed, and is also proactive (like RDX) in the sense that it moves power fore/aft on braking/acceleration. VTD/VDC and the limited slip rear diff will also move power side to side as needed for stability, traction, handling, etc.
Of all these systems, I would rate the CR-V and RX systems as the most primitive, and the RDX and Subaru systems as the most advanced. You can decide if you merely want wet weather 'reactive' AWD or all-weather 'proactive' AWD. They are all good choices in one way or another.
I understand your thoughts on the Tribeca's looks -- can't quite get into it either. If you don't mind a slightly smaller vehicle, the Legacy and Ouback wagons are also worth a look.
I've been absent from this thread for a while, but you'd think a bunch of VW owners joined given all the talk about supple leather and squishy dashes. :P
It's funny that people associate Subaru with "inexpensive and built to stay that way", for some reason German car owners in particular seem to do that.
I had to point out to a few of them that the Outback and Tribeca use the same soft cloth/perforated ceiling liner as $90,000 VW Phaeton.
I haven't been in a CR-V but don't most reviewers say it's improved noticeably? I'm sure it's fine for this price range.
Considering that a current CR-V LX is equipped about the same as the orignal smaller, 127 hp 22/25 mpg CR-V EX, I don't think that a $2,000 or so price difference is so bad (1997 CR-V EX AWD stickered at $20,625 according to newcartestdrive.com) considering inflation. They've stayed about the same when adjusted for inflation, or actually gotten a little cheaper when equipped the same as models-past.
Well, for a person who was ok with Lexus RX's AWD system, there shouldn't be a problem with CR-V's system. Both are FWD based, and have reactive system. In case of CR-V, now upto 70% of torque can be sent to rear wheels. And no, it never becomes "RWD only".
Now, Acura RDX is in a different class. SH-AWD (as well as VTM-4 currently used in Pilot) are pro-active systems. SH-AWD is actually permanently AWD which proportions power front and rear (and side to side between rear wheels) based on throttle use and cornering, with or without traction issues.
The problem with the portable units is that when you park, you have to unplug the thing, hide it in the car somewhere, or lug it with you, which can be a pain in the backside, especially in the summer when you're in just shorts and T-shirt. :sick:
The price is similar. For about $600 more I can get a new 07 LX over a low mileage 05 SE. My thought was that five years from now the 07 would be worth more because it is the newer body style. Obviously the SE gives you more goodies like leather, CD Changer, AWD.
Five years from now, they will both have depreciated a lot, and the difference will be minor. I would go with whichever one you like better *now*. Assuming the deal on the used 05 is fair, of course.
The units sold in US Honda's is not the same as the one sold in the Acura line. I don't have exact figures in front of me, but I recall the Acura's being something like $2,200 or $2,500. The Honda NAV is about $1,500 or $1,800.
Obviously, the Honda unit isn't going to have all the same features as the Acura variant, but they are working on making them more affordable.
The Subaru system is about 1000 times better than the CRV. You can actually go backwards in a CRV AWD system going up a steep hill. Hit the hill it FWD it spins, goes to BWD spins, Goes to FWD and so on unil you have NO traction and backwards you go!
The Subaru gives you power to ALL wheel all the time. If You don't have to get any spin before all wheels are pulling or pushing. Much, Much better.
Also you have to have enough power to turn the wheels. That's a problem with the 2.4. It has a hard time just turning two wheels without the transfer clutch or any other wheels.
Prices keep dropping, and there are more and more models available. I saw several for around $300 in the sales papers over the long weekend.
I hope 2 things happen - we see more OE systems, and that the prices for such systems start dropping. That hasn't happened yet.
Once they can get the cost under a grand, for a nice built-in with a 6-7" screen size, I bet about half of all new consumers want it. Right now I bet the penetration is not even 10%.
Keep in mind, without limited slip diffs, only one wheel on each axle is going to have power at a given time, so it's never really 4WD. At best, you'd have one front and one rear wheel driving the vehicle.
I have heard that the Subie's AWD system is better than the CRV. And I have seen the confidence that Subie drivers have in the north country driving SLOWLY up hills, with no fear that they won't make it.
On the other side we have a steep driveway (10% grade I think) - with a 30 degree bend in it at the steep part. When I first started using the CRV up there in snow - I always would put it in 1st, wind the engine out a fast as it would go and try to maintain as much speed as possible. One time my wife drove it up from a complete stop. (Didn't know she was going to do it!) and I watched as the various wheels slipped and gripped. It seemed very controlled to me from the outside.
In the end I 've been buying Honda over Subies for the complete package. (I had a Sube once). The CRV has more cargo area, gets good mileage and is generally nicer in my opinion. The Subie does beat the CRV on the last 150 feet of the 275 mile ride to the mountains, but that's the only place it's better.
The Subaru system is about 1000 times better than the CRV.
Is that 1000%. An impossibility of course.
Sorry, Honda CRV 0, Subaru 100.
Subaru would probably be the third or fourth brand I would consider after Honda and Toyota and then maybe among Mazda, Nissan. Problem is, when I've crunched the numbers, for a comparably equipped vehicle, Subarus are more expensive than Honda. Sometimes way more expensive. Motorweek just did a review of a top of the line Legacy. It was over $35K :surprise: .
Juice, you're kidding? :surprise: I'm not trying to brag, but I live and work in pretty nice parts of the town and I would never think of leaving anything of value in plain view, let alone a nifty electronic device such as a portable nav unit. If I did, I don't think it would survive more than a couple of days, or nights.
It's difficult to compare a Honda and a Subaru because of the AWD system. Any model with a half-decent AWD system will command a significant price premium.
If you put the 6 cyl 3L engine and the Eddy Bauer option and all the options you can get a Legacy for $35,000. But Oh, is it 10 times better than ANY CRV!
Your thoughts are like comparing.a standard Corvette $65,000 VS a racing model at over 1 million.
A well equipt Subaru Legacy is actually LESS than a comparably equipt Honda CRV. Check Edmunds on that price.
Also, don't forget, the repair costs for a CRV are about 3 times what the same repairs are for a Sub. Not that either would need much repairing.
It's a pity you can't get heated cloth on more cars nowadays (Subaru seems to be one of the few makes who offer this). At least on Hondas, you have to go with leather to get heated seats. I too prefer heated cloth seats.
It is not difficult to add heaters to any cloth seat. I may even go that route someday.
I think the best seats I ever had were Alcantara (sp?) Faux Suede in the Civic Si.
#1759 of 1775 05 SE or 07 LX FWD by stlgasman Nov 28, 2006 (9:53 am) The price is similar. For about $600 more I can get a new 07 LX over a low mileage 05 SE. My thought was that five years from now the 07 would be worth more because it is the newer body style. Obviously the SE gives you more goodies like leather, CD Changer, AWD.
Since the Flux Capacitor in my DeLorean is broken, we can only compare the previous data. Take the resale values of 2001 CR-V SE and compare it to 2002 CR-V LX. You will be plesantly surprized.
It's not simple anymore for the passenger seat with the airbag/occupant sensors. OEM seat heaters have jumped through a few hoops in order to handle this new constraint, often with reduced functionality and/or less heated area. The driver's seat should still be simple to add heaters to, until they start adding sensors to that...
Actually, Craig, the CR-V can manage each axle with the traction control system. So it won't leak all the power out one side like an open diff would.
I'm not sure if the AWD acts first, or the traction control would, but I'm sure together they are more than adequate for the foul weather driving most people will see.
Legacy over $35k? That's the spec.B model, which is a rare special edition. I think they only made 400 (or was it 800) last year. You can get a Legacy SE for $19k, a GT for $23k, street prices. Compare a GT Limited to an Acura TSX and they're in the same ballpark.
NAV unlocked - mine is registered with Garmin so if it's stolen and I report it they'll actually cut off the service.
Even without stability control, Craig's remark is... well... wrong.
"At best, you'd have one front and one rear wheel driving the vehicle." - CHunter
That is the "at worst" scenario. "At best" would be three wheel drive. An open diff will allow power to leak if there is slippage. True enough. But assuming that is assuming the worst.
Torque would be sent to both front wheels through an open diff. When one loses traction, power is routed to both rear wheels.
Adding stability control (traction control) mitigates the situation so that the front wheels can both contribute. Which means "at best" all four wheels will be moving.
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Comments
Years ago did something similar to that. Built a frame and hinged the plywood covering (2 piece) so they could be opened from the top. The end next to the back door was left open.
Great storage for suitcases and such as it was about a foot high. Covered it with carpet closely matching the car carpet.
Looking in thru a window it looked like the rear floorboard as it ran from the back door to the back of the front seat.
Amazing what we can do when we set our minds to it!
Kip
I loved the Acura RDX on paper.. didn't even mind the price... as replacement for my 2001 Lexus RX300. But drove it and hated the hard ride and am turned off by bad mileage reports.
Will drive CR-V EX-L next weekend. Anybody else cross shop these? How's the handling, highway ride over time... how does (mostly) FWD AWD system work in bad weather? We do mostly long-ish trips as a family of three. Like the cargo room, rear legroom.
FYI, also considering Subaru Tribeca, but too big and Honda ergonomics win hands down. Your thoughts welcome.
ed
OK, in that case I better not say anything! :P
Well, seriously, if you get it in black, the front is not so "prominent".
Visualizing yours as being basically a 5" thick wall to wall cushion.
Probably light weight and easy to remove, if you need the extra depth.
Seems like a good plan.
Mine was bolted down and would have been real troublesome to remove. :sick:
However, the rest of the story is that new power tools were on the scene. One way or another, some wood was going to be cut, planed, drilled, screwed, and whatever.
If "Necessity is the mother of invention" , then New tools and idle hands may be the "Daddy".
Kip
Obviously others share your view, as the 07 CR-V seems to be selling well!
Remembering back to the early 90s. Dodge trucks were rugged but not selling well. The "LOOK" had been around a long time and change was very much needed.
The 94 Rams were a radical change with their' "muscle lines", and "BIG RIG" style grill. It was instant success or failure, according to the eyes looking at it.
We liked it. Bought a new one in 96 and another in 98.
I actually like the bold new "look" of the 07 CR-V. The grill is different but nice!
Kip
If a car CAME WITH a NAV and/or it was a cheap option, I would not avoid that car just because of that. But the portable NAV seems to be more practical and the learning curve transfers with you from car to car.
What will Honda think of next?
[1] There are exceptions, but I generally find that anything that takes longer than 8 seconds to get from 0-60 to be underpowered.
[2] Not sure if Acura requires it, but I am of the belief that turbocharged engines need synthetic oil because the turbos have a tendency to cook and sludge regular oil, whereas it's not absolutely necessary with normally-aspirated engines.
As you noted, the Subaru's system is RWD-biased. It can vary power around to enhance traction as needed, and is also proactive (like RDX) in the sense that it moves power fore/aft on braking/acceleration. VTD/VDC and the limited slip rear diff will also move power side to side as needed for stability, traction, handling, etc.
Of all these systems, I would rate the CR-V and RX systems as the most primitive, and the RDX and Subaru systems as the most advanced. You can decide if you merely want wet weather 'reactive' AWD or all-weather 'proactive' AWD. They are all good choices in one way or another.
I understand your thoughts on the Tribeca's looks -- can't quite get into it either. If you don't mind a slightly smaller vehicle, the Legacy and Ouback wagons are also worth a look.
Good luck!
It's funny that people associate Subaru with "inexpensive and built to stay that way", for some reason German car owners in particular seem to do that.
I had to point out to a few of them that the Outback and Tribeca use the same soft cloth/perforated ceiling liner as $90,000 VW Phaeton.
I haven't been in a CR-V but don't most reviewers say it's improved noticeably? I'm sure it's fine for this price range.
-juice
It's not that inexpensive any more...
Nowadays that's nothing. The BMW X3 starts at $38k, if you want a premium small SUV, and I'm not sure the interior is any better, to be honest.
Edit: Edmunds' RAV4 tester cost them something like $33.7k, and CX7s are up above $30 as well. I saw a Sante Fe at a dealership that listed for $32k.
I think any new shopper in this class is going to experience a bit of sticker shock.
-juice
Welcome to old age. :P
What is?
Now, Acura RDX is in a different class. SH-AWD (as well as VTM-4 currently used in Pilot) are pro-active systems. SH-AWD is actually permanently AWD which proportions power front and rear (and side to side between rear wheels) based on throttle use and cornering, with or without traction issues.
Now if we can just get in car navigation systems off that $2,000 figure and down to ~$200 where the aftermarket systems seem to be settling....
I'll probably buy a 2nd portable unit soon, so my wife can keep one in her car. We fight over it all the time.
-juice
If you are, you should change where you go.
-juice
The units sold in US Honda's is not the same as the one sold in the Acura line. I don't have exact figures in front of me, but I recall the Acura's being something like $2,200 or $2,500. The Honda NAV is about $1,500 or $1,800.
Obviously, the Honda unit isn't going to have all the same features as the Acura variant, but they are working on making them more affordable.
The Subaru gives you power to ALL wheel all the time. If You don't have to get any spin before all wheels are pulling or pushing. Much, Much better.
Also you have to have enough power to turn the wheels. That's a problem with the 2.4. It has a hard time just turning two wheels without the transfer clutch or any other wheels.
Sorry, Honda CRV 0, Subaru 100.
The 2nd gen looked more like the Volvo XC70.
Now the 2rd gen looks like the XC90's.
The keep looking better, though, and they are certainly going in the right direction. I think it's one of the nicer features on the new design.
-juice
I hope 2 things happen - we see more OE systems, and that the prices for such systems start dropping. That hasn't happened yet.
Once they can get the cost under a grand, for a nice built-in with a 6-7" screen size, I bet about half of all new consumers want it. Right now I bet the penetration is not even 10%.
-juice
Ahem, once the Front wheels spin it goes into 4FW not BWD. That's why Honda refers to it as "Real Time 4WD", not "Real Time FWD or BWD".
On the other side we have a steep driveway (10% grade I think) - with a 30 degree bend in it at the steep part. When I first started using the CRV up there in snow - I always would put it in 1st, wind the engine out a fast as it would go and try to maintain as much speed as possible. One time my wife drove it up from a complete stop. (Didn't know she was going to do it!) and I watched as the various wheels slipped and gripped. It seemed very controlled to me from the outside.
In the end I 've been buying Honda over Subies for the complete package. (I had a Sube once). The CRV has more cargo area, gets good mileage and is generally nicer in my opinion. The Subie does beat the CRV on the last 150 feet of the 275 mile ride to the mountains, but that's the only place it's better.
My opinion.
Is that 1000%. An impossibility of course.
Sorry, Honda CRV 0, Subaru 100.
Subaru would probably be the third or fourth brand I would consider after Honda and Toyota and then maybe among Mazda, Nissan. Problem is, when I've crunched the numbers, for a comparably equipped vehicle, Subarus are more expensive than Honda. Sometimes way more expensive. Motorweek just did a review of a top of the line Legacy. It was over $35K :surprise: .
Your thoughts are like comparing.a standard Corvette $65,000 VS a racing model at over 1 million.
A well equipt Subaru Legacy is actually LESS than a comparably equipt Honda CRV. Check Edmunds on that price.
Also, don't forget, the repair costs for a CRV are about 3 times what the same repairs are for a Sub. Not that either would need much repairing.
It is not difficult to add heaters to any cloth seat. I may even go that route someday.
I think the best seats I ever had were Alcantara (sp?) Faux Suede in the Civic Si.
The price is similar. For about $600 more I can get a new 07 LX over a low mileage 05 SE. My thought was that five years from now the 07 would be worth more because it is the newer body style. Obviously the SE gives you more goodies like leather, CD Changer, AWD.
Since the Flux Capacitor in my DeLorean is broken, we can only compare the previous data. Take the resale values of 2001 CR-V SE and compare it to 2002 CR-V LX. You will be plesantly surprized.
And NO YELLING!
I'm not sure if the AWD acts first, or the traction control would, but I'm sure together they are more than adequate for the foul weather driving most people will see.
Legacy over $35k? That's the spec.B model, which is a rare special edition. I think they only made 400 (or was it 800) last year. You can get a Legacy SE for $19k, a GT for $23k, street prices. Compare a GT Limited to an Acura TSX and they're in the same ballpark.
NAV unlocked - mine is registered with Garmin so if it's stolen and I report it they'll actually cut off the service.
-juice
"At best, you'd have one front and one rear wheel driving the vehicle." - CHunter
That is the "at worst" scenario. "At best" would be three wheel drive. An open diff will allow power to leak if there is slippage. True enough. But assuming that is assuming the worst.
Torque would be sent to both front wheels through an open diff. When one loses traction, power is routed to both rear wheels.
Adding stability control (traction control) mitigates the situation so that the front wheels can both contribute. Which means "at best" all four wheels will be moving.