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Thanks for the advice, i will check the sway bars myself and ask my attorney about the accident dislosure law..have a great evening..
Thanks for the reply.
It sounds like you are describing *EXACTLY* what I am experiencing. The noise for me is most prominent above 45MPH when accelerating, going up hills, or cornering to the left. I was hoping your response was going to end with a solution, but it looks like you're in the same boat as me.
The service techs keep blaming it on the tires and regular old "road noise". They tried under inflating and over inflating the tires, to no avail. They've also rotated the tires. They claim they can't even hear this noise, yet family and friends that ride in the passenger seat or driver seat can all hear it. The noise is so hard to describe in words. It's almost like a dull, hollow, rattling/rumbling sound. Not high pitched or squeaky, but deeper and more of a rumble.
It sounds like the noise is coming from directly underneath the driver side floorboards, from the driver's perspective. When this noise starts, I can feel subtle vibration through the steering wheel and on the floor. It's not a violent vibration, but I can feel it and it's synchronized with the weird sound.
I don't hate the car, but I hate this noise. I grew up in a very car oriented family, constantly going to classic car shows with our '67 Camaro, '63 1/2 Galaxy, '87 Corvette, etc. We've always strived for perfection and quality mechanical upkeep of all our cars, and we've never encountered a problem we couldn't fix. But this is the first time I've owned a car with such a strange noise that no one (family or friends) has ever heard before, and none of us can figure out what the heck is causing it.
I have an appointment with my private mechanic next month. I'm going to drive him around, and see what he thinks. I'll post back with my findings. If you or your mechanics/techs figure anything out, *please* let me know.
Cars are the 2nd biggest purchase we make, after our homes. I'm shocked at how short test drives are for many folks.
Something like that could easiliy have been noticed on a thorough test drive.
Before you buy your next car, I suggest making a list of things to check for. Take the actual car you are buying out for a long drive, and go through the whole list.
Best of luck.
Yes,it sounds like we have exactly the same noise but the subaru mechanics and myself have always thought that the problem was coming from the front passenger side wheel..after they replaced that bearing and the noise was still there they changed the drivers side front bearing,then the rear pass side,when that failed they replaced the transmission,when that failed they jacked up my tire pressure to 32 pounds all the way around and gave me the car which i test drove immediately and the noise was still there but the slip in the trans was gone..when i first noticed the noise i was going up a slight grade while turning to the left at about 40 mph as i continued on my journey i noticed it while driving straight ahead on the freeway whenever ther was a slight dip in the pavement or when i accelerated ..At first they said it was tire noise,then it was "well these cars are noisy just turn up the radio"
The subaru mechanic agreed with me that it was a bearing or axle shaft..So any way i took the car to another dealer and they determined that the right front wheel bearing had failed again so they replaced it, gave me the car back and as soon as i got on the freeway the noise was still noticable..I argued with the service mgr that said the noise was normal,OK!! then why did it only show up at 1000 miles and 4 bearings and a trans were replaced to fix it? The service mgr had no response.I test drove one of the dealers rental foresters same car almost exact same miles as mine and i didnt hear the vibration noise after i took it for a long drive on the freeway...I have a contract in front of me from a no fee lemon law attorney that is will ing to take my case..You may want to do the same but you will probably have to go through all the hoops i have first..the last eight months of my life have been miserable because of this subaru piece of crap and all the run around by the dealers and soa customer service..let me know if you need more info..good luck bro
Unfortunately, the noise didn't manifest itself until about 2 weeks after purchasing the car, after a couple of hundred miles were racked up. The car was new when purchased (about 38 miles on the odometer).
I did take it for an extended test drive before purchasing, as I do with every car I buy, and the noise wasn't present during that time.
The most frustrating this is that I have diagnosed this problem to the extreme. I know exactly what conditions make the sound worse, what makes it better, etc. I could understand if I was Joe-know-nothing that blindly walked into the service department just complaining about a generic noise, but I have given these guys excruciating details. It's almost as if they aren't really making any serious effort to fix it, or they don't trust my description of the problem.
For me, the noise is exaggerated whenever the front left side of the car experiences negative G forces. So, when I turn to the left (causing the body to roll to the right), it causes the noise. When I accelerate, especially up hill, and the body weight shifts to the rear making the front end light, it causes it. If there is a small bump in the road causing the entire body to want to lift off the ground, it causes it. So basically, when the car's weight is lifted from the front left wheel for any length of time while accelerating, I get this crazy noise.
The opposite is also true. Making a right turn, braking, or hitting a sudden dip in the road will immediately silence the noise. So, when I get positive G forces on the front left wheel and the weight of the body pushed down, everything is fine.
Whether this is a suspension issue, a wheel bearing issue, or tie rod/steering issue is something I'm still trying to work out.
I just finished checking the sway bars and they both seem very tight..I noticed a lot of oil on the plastic skid plate under the engine though..also my low fuel light doesnt come on,my tank was almost completely empty yesterday..im taking it to the dealer tommorow...unbelievable! this on top of everything else...
If you would like more info and would to contact me outside of this forum you can do it through my website www.whiteeaglearmoury.com
I would say that since it doesn't seem to be the bearings or the trans, it could be the axles, very in-expensive to replace actually.
There are two forester owners with the same problem on this forum alone.I bet there are many others with the same problem..Some probably gave up trying to have the problem fixed and are still driving their foresters believing that its a normal condition,others probably traded theirs in for a big loss..I havent finished checking all the other subaru forester tech forums yet ...
Happy holidays :lemon:
Car has 40k and tranny fluid was replaced at about 30k. Mechanic added a SOA synthetic tranny additive later after I mentioned the rough shifts. Additive had no effect.
What would cause such rough shifts when the fluid is cold? Should I worry or live with it?
The biggest difference between the AT and the MT AWD systems is that the MT has a 50/50 (front/rear) power split under normal conditions. Meanwhile, the AT begins with a 80/20 split (rear/front) and adjusts power delivery from there.
Hope this helps
The AT uses what they call Auto AWD, basically electronically controlled variable transfer clutches. Simple yet effective.
Here is a cool video - you see a basic Forester X auto having no trouble transferring power from axle to axle, front to rear and rear to front. Note how little wheelspin there is on the Forester:
Both systems are very capable.
The 2009 models adds traction/stability control, so it will only improve.
Here are some bits and pieces I have picked up about Forester drive trains:
The X Sports model (either manual or auto) and the LL Bean model (comes auto only) have X model drive trains.
All the Forester drive trains have viscous limited slip rear differentials.
The printed catalog lists the drive trains as follows:
Manual X and XT = Continuous AWD:
Viscous locking center differential and limited slip rear differential.
Automatic X = Active AWD:
Electronically controlled variable multiplate transfer clutch and viscous limited slip rear differential.
Automatic XT = VDC (engine management and traction control system) and VTD (Variable Torque Distribution) AWD:
Electronically controlled variable multiplate transfer clutch, planetary center differential, and viscous limited slip rear differential.
If you have the automatic transmission, power in Drive and 3rd is biased 80/20 toward the front. There is 50/50 power distribution front and rear if you place the selector lever in 2nd or 1st. If you have a manual transmission the split is 50/50 in all gears.
If you have Limited Slip Differential (optional in non-X models, standard in XT models), you'll have at least three of four wheels available. If you don't, you could have two wheels of four available, one front and one rear.
No forester in the US has a front LSD unfortunately (apparently only the forester STI ever got one). The nonvdc foresters have a front open diff with a clutch pack in the center of the car to distribute power f-r and either an open rear diff in the X model or viscous limited slip in the rear on XS and XT models. The forester vlsd is very loose though. A US Forester will act the same as any awd or 4wd that has open diffs. A non-Rubicon Jeep Wrangler will do the exact same thing. You will always have at least 2 wheels spinning, and you can drive through the brakes to get power to transfer.
In the non-X models, when there are LSDs, both automatic and manual models use the rear mechanical LSD. The difference comes at the fore/aft transfer case... Automatic goes electronic (the E in 4EAT) and while in 4 or 3 shifter location, varies the ratio from 80/20 to 50/50 based on "sensed need".
When shifter location is in 2 or 1, the 4EAT locks the center differential at 50/50 power distribution.
When shifter location is in 2, the 4EAT locks second gear. First gear can't be accessed while shifter is in 2, so take-offs are in second gear. Sounds stupid on pavement, but in wintry locations, where snow and ice are common, it seems a lot smarter.
Why are 3 and 4 different from 1 and 2? For reasons of economy having power distributed mostly up front makes a lot of gas mileage sense, with power only going to front pair...plus by the time you're in third and fourth gears, you shouldn't be having traction problems (certainly possible with turbo models, but not advisable in normal use...ie, above speed limit). Wonder why the automatic has traditionally gotten better mileage than the manual? ...it's the E in 4EAT.
When they say 50/50, I wonder if they mean the power split, or the fact that axles are locked somehow.
In the video, notice the front axles doesn't spin at all when it's on rollers. The rear axle also does not spin when it's on rollers.
If the front axle were actually getting 50% of the power at a minimum, they would be spinning like mad. Yet they remain still, implying zero power to that axle. Remember there was no traction control on that model (2006-7 X automatic).
Theory is great, but in practice, that front axle gets no power at all, hence it does not spin when it's on rollers.
Suffice it to say, it just works.
Drive in a figure 8 in an empty parking lot. See if that does anything. This is advice SoA techs shared with us in the past.
Then again, it could be because our roads have been dry lately, and most of my driving up to now has been on wet roads/in rainy weather.
The EOM Yokahoma Geolandars on my 08 were very noisy. I think the same tires are used for 09. The tread sang and whined on smooth surfaces, and the stiff sidewalls transmitted roar from coarse surfaces. They have good handling, snow and off-road traction and tread life, but I did not like them for my general driving.
After 3,500 miles I sold the Geolandars and put on Michelin Primacy MXV4's, which have a tread pattern similar to your new Avid H4S. All the tire noise disappeared.
1. I selected the Primacy because it was advertised and reviewed as being a very quiet tire, like the TripleTread and the Pilot Exalto. I don't see the same thing for the AVID, so it may be another noisy tire.
2. I would not describe any of my tire noise as "rolling". Singing, whining, roaring, but not rolling. Perhaps Yokohama gave you new tires for a mechanical problem.
Anyone else have a chirping headliner/headliner light box? Am still hearing this in some temperatures so I have some more sleuthing to do.
My experience is that clutch slip is first evidenced in top gear when applying heavy throttle at highway speed, per this quote:
"... When a clutch starts to slip, the slippage will be most noticeable when the engine is under load... in a high gear, when driving up a hill, when accelerating to pass another vehicle..."
That is why clutch slip is also tested by using the top gear, per this quote:
"... Depress the clutch pedal and put the transmission in fourth gear. Slowly let up on the clutch while stepping on the gas pedal. If you are able to completely release the clutch pedal without the engine stalling (or the car moving), your clutch is history..."
Here's the cost breakdown if you're considering having this repair done on your car: Labor ($690) + Parts ($262.54) + Tax ($76.20) = $1028.74
The parts include: Gasket/Seal Kit ($196.55) + Internal Filter ($15.43) + Spin-On Filter ($10) + Transmission Fluid ($40.56) = $262.54
The shop owner said that except for the seals, the transmission was in great shape. Furthermore, he said he has seen enough 1999 Subaru Foresters come in to his shop with this problem that he knew exactly what was going on as soon as I described the "pause before shifting into drive" problem to him over the phone.
By the way, before I took my car to Croteau's, I called my local Subaru dealer. The Subaru dealer gave me the following quotes: $6000 to rebuild the transmission, or $4000 to replace the transmission with a new, remanufactured transmission, or $2200 to install a used transmission from a junk yard.
Before Croteau's did any work on my car, they estimated that the replacement of the seals would cost about $1000. Or, in the worst case scenario, once they opened up the transmission and saw that it had to be rebuilt, they could rebuild it for about $2300. The $1028.74 I spent to replace the seals was a lot of money, but compared to the prices the Subaru dealer quoted, I'm not complaining.
Based on my limited experience, my advice is: if your Forester goes in reverse with no problem, but hesitates when put in drive, it's probably the seals that need to be replaced. If you want to have the seals replaced, find a reputable transmission repair shop. Avoid the Subaru dealer and their outrageous prices.
The letting out the clutch slowly w/o giving it gas is also a proceedure I use as well.
I have seen where a faulty master or slave cylinder has caused what appeared to be slippage in the non-turbo cars (RS most notably).
If the vehicle has reasonable wear, it sounds like brake master cylinder on its way out. Not a hugely expensive repair but necessary after about 80,000 miles if clutch has been heavily used.
Can you offer any guidance?
I just bought the car private party ($2000 so I'm not bitching- she's leather & loaded + the head gaskets, timing belt, etc done in the last 1000 miles) so I don't know what her history is but she rides GREAT other than the clutch issue. All help and ideas MUCH appreciated!!! :confuse:
Clutches go about 60-80k miles on the subies, so you are probably due.
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor