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Don't sales people routinely inform prospective buyers of this simple feature?
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
It was my understanding that Avalons call for regular, and when regular is specified, there is no benefit to burning premium. I do not have an Avalon so don't listen to me, listen to your manual.
If premium is not required then it wouldn't hurt the engine by using regular fuel. The fact is that EVERY SINGLE ENGINE out there right now (Toyota or non-Toyota) will have an increase in performance by using premium fuel.
3.5 rated 21/32
3.9 rated 19/27
Still better then the Pacifica's comperable 18/25 and 17/23 ratings.
You didn't say whether you have the 3.8 or Northstar, but in any case, the last bastions of older technologies. I agree with your statement, but, unfortunately, this is not something that you will have any choices on - computer 'assisted' driving is here to stay - already here in many cases, and shortly in others. The old OD 4 speeds in GM products will soon be replaced by 5/6 speeds at the cost of some drivability but with a bonus of a mpg or two. Enjoy your Lucerne while you can.
It makes sense that shifting from D to S and back to D should also cancel the memory, but this is more like a memory reset & restart. In D it would be "learning" again, so a while later it may again resist a sudden change in your driving style. That's why I just leave it in S.
Best is the Ford Fivehundred
Even beats all but one of the luxury large cars tested.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/summary.aspx?class=10
Do you have proof the higher octanes are "cleaner"? IOW if I'm buying Shell regular, it's dirty and if I pay the extra for Shell super premium V5 or whatever it's call, it's cleaner?
I thought all fuels had the same detergents in regular and the 91-92 versions. In fact, burning the premiums in regular motors actually burns slower and leave behind more carbon. The premium doesn't really burn better and fouls spark plugs faster, e.g.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As for the additives in the fuel, they do vary by brand and in some cases, by grade (Shell advertises better cleaning in their premium fuel). I personally don't trust cheaper fuels. A few pennies per gallon doesn't compensate for the couple hundred dollars it will cost to have your injectors cleaned.
Simply put, you should buy the grade of fuel recommended in your owner's manual as long as the vehicle runs well on it. As your engine wears and gets dirty, you may start to notice the "knocking and pinging" of the engines of years past. In that case, get some maintenance and all should be well again.
As Captain2 states, high octane marketing is one of the oldest tricks in the book. It's your money but you're throwing it away on high octane fuel if your car isn't designed to make use of it.
Doesn't that negate the "superior" technology and make your vehicle drive the way the buyers of American branded vehicles prefer? I suppose you still have the option of choosing between the styles but why pay extra for technology if you don't like or use it?
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Personally, I like it and I use it. I usually drive in D when in steady traffic and shift into S when I want to suddenly move ahead of the pack. Especially on steep hills.
That is correct. I never stipulated a particular model, only that the technology exists in GMs engines and has been there for a very long time.
Bzzzt! I'm sorry, that is incorrect. Unless an engine has an ignition system that can keep the spark advance just shy of the edge of disaster (the point that yields the best power and best fuel economy for any given fuel), regardless of fuel grade, using a higher octane fuel than recommended will degrade both performance and economy.
Think about it this way, Premium slows down or delays the formation of a fully organized flame front that moves across the combustion chamber in all directions from the spark plug(s), and that in turn delays (from a mechanical timing perspective) the point of maximum (or peak) pressure (PPP). As a general rule, the PPP should occur at about twenty degrees after TDC (plus or minus a few degrees, depending upon engine design), which is the starting point of greatest mechanical advantage inside the engine. If the Peak Pressure Point (PPP) occurs too early (typically from using a fuel of too low of an AKI), much potential energy is lost pushing down on an almost vertical (to the path of piston travel) crank throw, and often leads to severe detonation. If the PPP occurs too late (typically from using a fuel of too high of an AKI), then the piston travels beyone the point where it can efficiently convert energy into twist (or even bottoms out) with a still viable combustion charge in the combustion chamber. As a result that potential energy remaining in the cylinder after mechanical advantage is lost goes out the exhaust valve. Either way, power and economy suffers.
True, there are some engines that call for Regular that can retune themselves to exploit some of the potential advantages of Premium, however, only engines designed to burn Premium can take full advantage of Premium fuel.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I have a '94 Caprice with a 350 LT-1, and it runs on Regular fuel.
If I want to take advantage of Premium fuels, I need to have the ECM(computer) re-programmed for it.
Engine 2: 250 lb-ft/s 4800 RPM and takes 4 seconds to get to that RPM
***
More like:
Engine 1: 220 lb-ft/s 2500 RPM and takes 1.5 seconds to get to that RPM
Also, the beauty of old technology is twofold. One, if it's not broken, why "fix it"? Secondly, it's adequate enough to be sure, but TONS cheaper to fix.
Your choice. $1600 for a GM tranny or $3500 for the one in the Avalon or Camry. And last I checked, parts for most Toyotas are much more expensive than for a Buick.
And the Lucerne is a sweet ride. It's no asphlt-burner, but in city traffic, it responds very quickly compared to most V6s. Sweet V8 exhaust sound as well.
Now if they would put that engine in the new CTS.. Wel, I can dream I guess.
Trust me, the OHV I had on my Impala rental wasn't going to reach 2500 RPM in 1.5 seconds. I know this because I was flooring it and had my eyes on the tachometer the whole time because I want to compare it to my 2GR-FSE.
On the 2GR, if one floors it, it will reach over 5000 RPM in first gear in less than say 3 to 4 seconds. However, on the Impala, the engine will make loud noise but the tachometer needle isn't really going any where.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I rent Impalas quite frequently and can testify to this as well.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Engine 2: 250 lb-ft/s 4800 RPM and takes 4 seconds to get to that RPM
I gave up reading that simplistic exaggeration in an attempt to show that something the poster didn't like JANG (just ain't no good).
I watch the tach on my little old OHV 3800 as I leave stop signs and it jumps to 2000-2500 quickly as it spins up to the torque converter operation speed. But I realized that this is the old "I hate US brand cars with some technology that's not what is in the car brand I have chosen to drive syndrome." And everyone is welcome to their opinion or favorite; and I am too.
Motor rev rates depend on flywheel mass and transmission gear ratios and on axle ratio along with the torque converter characteristics. Ideally each has been picked to optimize the engine's strengths. \
In my old-fashioned 3800 which has been modernized through the couple of decades OHV motor will deliver the mileage in a true full-sied 6 passenger car both on long and short trip driving.
I'm happy. Drive what you want.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Exactly, I am also sick and tired to read some posts saying that the OHC engines are weak in the low RPM region. That's why I made up the 2 generic engines just to show the difference in design between the OHC and OHV.
Also, you are mistaken about us hating the US brand cars with the OHV engines. Like I said before, some people grew up and learned to drive with OHV cars so obviously they will be more comfortable with it. However, people like me, we grew up driving OHC cars so clearly we'll favor it over the OHV. Nothing's wrong with either one, it's purely personal preference.
However, for me at least, I'll choose new technology over an old one on any given day. Especially if I am about to drop over 30 large on a brand new car.
are you forgetting the CTS-V, 400 hp/400 lb. ft. LS6 engine? Or even the GTO with a similar powertrain - not the Northstar but a more traditional pushrod design. Big V8s something that "Detroit' DOES know how to do...
I think there are 2 answers to your question:
1) GM just got done losing $10 billion last year - they don't have the money
and,
2) Putting 300+ hp to the front wheels creates a new set of problems - torque steer. Drive an Impala SS or a Maxima.
A word for the Azera limited: Its 263 hp to the front wheels produces zero torque steer. As some reviews I've read stated, "You really can't tell it's front wheel drive!"...
Not possible. Take the Axera (or any other "Torque Steerless" FWD car you care to choose) and sit at a stop light waiting for a left turn. Mash the gas, turn the wheel and PRESTO, you get torque steer.
Best Regards,
Shipo
It is possible and there are other cases besides Azera such as the 2007 Nissan Altima and 2007 Acura TL-S
Been there, done that, got the Tee-Shirt. Like it or don't, I was able to get the Altima and the TL-S (with the 6-Speed) to generate a fair amout of torque steer.
Best Regards,
Shipo
How does the 2 compare to each other? Was the Altima's transmission smooth at the start? What does it happen when you floor it?
Yes, that is part and parcel of what I was attempting to say.
"Engineering suspension geometries, throttle programs (as in the new TL-S), or even monkeyng around with tire sizes (the GP) all can serve to hide TS very well."
Admittedly torque steer has been much mitigated since FWD cars first hit the scene (geez, my ~85 hp 1979 VW Scirocco had gobs of torque steer), however, it hasen't been altogether eliminated. I've test driven two Acura TLs (one was a TL-S), and both had 6-Speed manual transmissions. In both cars I was able to generate torque steer turning left onto a freeway ramp from a traffic light controlled surface street where two lanes turn onto the ramp but the ramp itself only has one actual lane. In my RWD sedan I'm able to nail the throttle and get to the open ramp with the front wheels doing the turning and the rear wheels doing the accelerating. Simple, straight forward and effective. The same torque steer thing held true for the 2007 Altima that I drove last week.
The second scenario where I've uncovered very noticeable and annoying torque steer on all three cars is a little more difficult to explain. There is a fairly long grade that I routinely traverse that has a huge amount of heavy truck traffic. Given the roughly westerly facing orientation of said grade, the tarmac is exposed to the hot afternoon summer sun and gets somewhat soft. Combined with all of the truck traffic, the tarmac has become deeply rutted. Not rough ruts mind you, more like a deep (maybe 6" deep at the deepest) and smooth "U" shaped trenches where the tires typically roll, not at all unlike an old country lane where there are two ruts for tires and grass growing in between. When climbing that hill in all three cars and holding steady speed the FWD/rut combination causes the cars to alternately attempt to climb first one side of the trench, and then once corrected for with the steering, the car to attempt to climb the opposite side. Said another way, it was impossible to drive any of the three straight up that grade without wandering left-right-left within the lane itself. I've had that problem in every FWD vehicle I've driven up that grade, and yet I've never had even a hint of wandering in any RWD car or truck that I've had on the same piece of road.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Unfortunately they weren't really comparable as the Altima I drove was a 2.5 liter 4-Banger version (see below).
How does the 2 compare to each other? Was the Altima's transmission smooth at the start? What does it happen when you floor it?
I presume you're referring to the CVT transmission. As I am allergic to automatic transmissions,
Best Regards,
Shipo
Your choice: $1600 to replace the GM tranny when it fails at 60K or $3500 for the Toyota tranny when it fails (if) at 180K.
Tough choice.
Best Regads,
Shipo
Personally I won't drive any of the above automatic gearboxes (I'm a manual transmission bigot) so I have no horse in this race.
Best Regards,
Shipo
No, that's not quite what I was trying to say. Virtually every FWD car that I've ever driven has tracked straight as an arrow on smooth pavement (assuming anything less than high HP acceleration). I have no gripe there.
"Under moderate acceleration this would make some sense, however."
Well, technically climbing an 8% grade is "moderate acceleration". Said another way, if I back off the throttle on the grade, the tracking problem goes away completely. That said, it gets worse when I try to accelerate, almost to the point of being unable to stay in the lane under full acceleration.
Best Regards,
Shipo
havehad a similar rut on a long hill where the trucks populated the right lane of I70 and a rut developed.The rear wheels on some cars aren't perfectly parallel and IMHO the preference to slight toe in or out may be to mitigate other characteristics of the car's driving manners.
The rear wheels on RWD don't change their position under higher load since they are not capable of steering. OTOH the front wheels of FWD do have some flex to move under hard load braking or pulling and slightly change the alignment. I had noticed this in relation to slight vibration from road force variation on wheels through the chassis and mentioned to the service manager about more effect from slight acceleration on smooth uphills on a trip vs cruise level or downhill.
I wonder if the flex in front wheels causes the steering you're noticing. Did the cars do the same on flat road beds under acceleration? That would be torque steer (doesn't bother me if it's there in my car). In the ruts that can be the fronts flexing under strong load and can be front rear wheel misalignment. My servce manager was telling about rear wheel alignment changing a person's car who drove the same section of I70 with the ruts; after the careful alignment setting the rear, the car quit fighting on the uphill pull.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,