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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison



  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    Yes, those numbers are for 2002 models.
    And yes, the XG had a higher MSRP.
    My point is they are not twins.
    The XG has better performance and is bigger.
    Guess you'll have to agree on those things.

    Whether the benefits are worth your money? Of course that is your decision, I'm not arguing that.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I didn't say they were twins, I said the numbers when it came to interior dimensions were very, very similar. Sitting in the didn't see the 4 extra cu. ft. of space.

    Considering the XG had 22 more HP and weighed only slightly more than the Sonata, the performance SHOULD be better. Again, I didn't buy the car for performace.

    However, the looks of the Sonata did more for me than the XG did. Just loved having a baby jag! ;)

    However...if you look at the '07 Avalon & Camry, outside of sheet metal, they are darn near twins!
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    You said, "...when you really break them down and start comparing numbers and other statistical data...that's where they become almost twins."
    So that's what I did, gave you numbers and other statistical data to compare. But the data shows they are not almost twins.

    But yes, by all means, if you can't tell the difference between the '07 Camry and Avalon, buy the cheaper one (like you did with the Hyundais earlier).
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Okay..taken too literal (and my fault for not specifying). I was referring to the interior room numbers. Honestly...if I was going to pay the difference...I wanted more car, I wanted more room.

    Go ahead and take a look at the Camry and Avalon and tell if you don't see what I'm talking about though. Do you feel that there is $6K worth of difference between the two?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    What's really sad, is...the Camry is not far off when it comes to the innner dimensions from the Avalon. THAT...really sucks.
    before you make a statement like that you really need to sit in the Avalon and then the Camry, especially the back seat which is really only rivaled by the back seat in the 500. Numbers can be misleading, the Avalon feels and indeed is much larger than even the Azera (which is no slouch in that dept) never mind the new Camry but only has one lousy cubic foot more of interior volume (than the Azera). It is not necessarily how much space there is but also how it is used.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I have sat in both and I know exactly what you mean, but...the numbers don't lie and that's what I've been talking about all along. Personally, I would have loved to have seen the Avalon retain the 280 HP it had.

    Exactly my point between the XG and the Sonata. However...I don't ride in the back seat so my back seat feedback doesn't matter. My children do and with both of them being girls that may grow to be no more than 5'6" at the most...

    You are quite correct in your assessment. One advantage the Avalon has over all is the reclining rear seat, that makes a huge difference in perceived rear room when one is back there.

    The interior space is cavernous in my Azera compared to the Sonata I had. There was no way I was about drop $22K on the XG back in '02, but the Azera was well worth the $26K I paid for it.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    LARGE sedans, please??
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    No offense, but...Azera and Avalon.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Um, huh? There are a number of vehicles being batted around here that aren't in the large sedan category. We really, really, REALLY need to get back on topic.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Okay, okay...we'll drop the lil guys from the convo! ;)
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    A good choice for you back then might have been a Ford Crown Victoria. More car, more room. And a pound per dollar good buy too!

    Avalon and Camry? Neither one is worth my money I suspect. I favor the Azera and Sonata.
    But if and when I'm in the market for that type of new car, I'll research and test all of them.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    You're REALLY funny! LOL

    Currently, I'm loving my Azera and I'm itching to see the new Genesis.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    You said, "... Avalon feels and indeed is much larger than even the Azera (which is no slouch in that dept) never mind the new Camry but only has one lousy cubic foot more of interior volume (than the Azera)."

    Huh? How do you figure?

    Passenger Volume 107 Azera, 107 Avalon, 101 Camry
    Luggage....Volume.. 17 Azera,. 14 Avalon,.. 15 Camry

    EPA figures for 2007 models.

    (Sonata is 105/16)
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Joe...come on now, he just needed to leave out ...indeed is much lager than... He did go on to mention that it's not about the actual numbers, but how the space is used.

    Actually...sitting in the rear of the Avalon with the seats up, the ceiling height was lower than in the Azera. With the seats reclined, it's not a big issue. don't need to recline the seats in the Azera! ;)

    Technically (according to Edmunds) luggage capacity for the Avalon is 14.4, that's what happens when you want reclining rear seats!
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    How about that Camry comment?
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Sorry, can't talk about the Camry any's not a large sedan. :P
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    OK but you didn't read the post - sit in the Camry vs the Avalon and then tell me that they are the same size (that poster's contention)- the same situation that exists between the Sonata and Azera. The Sonata is not anywhere near as big and comfortable as that Azera even though your numbers may say it is. There is a lot more to usable space then just numbers!
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Those reclining seatds BTW only go about 10 or 15 degrees which idoesn't sound like much, except that it makes all the difference in the world if you happen to be a full size American male stuck back there for several hours. Do find myself wishing for a larger trunk at times and certainly a price I pay for not only those seats but also the full size spare. However, for 4 adults in a 4 door sedan on a long trip, the Avalon has no peers except for possibly the 500, the front seats of which I found uncomfortable. Those reclining seats BTW are standard on all Avalons and are generally found only on premium models from Lexus, BMW, MB and Nissan, so it is not a question of 'wanting' them - you either like them or you don't or prefer to fold down the seats and turn your car into a station wagon.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    I never said as comfortable, just said that going by the numbers...they are not far off from each other. As stated's not the actual number, but how the space is used. I'll definitely agree that the interior of the Camry doesn't feel as spacious as the Avalon.

    Oh yeah, 4 adults sit very comfortably in the Azera as well. ;)
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    Yeah, I read the posts (which post are you referring to?), but the way they are written makes it hard to understand what the writer meant.

    For the record, I'll make three points:
    I do not believe the Camry and Avalon are the same size.
    I do not believe the Sonata and Azera are the same size.
    I do not believe the Sonata is as comfortable as Azera.

    What did the poster mean when he wrote, "...Avalon feels and indeed is much larger than even the Azera (which is no slouch in that dept) never mind the new Camry but only has one lousy cubic foot more of interior volume (than the Azera)."
    I'm guessing he means Avalon feels bigger than Azera, Avalon is much larger in fact than Azera, Azera is no slouch in the size dept. Those seem pretty clear.
    But when it comes to the Camry comment, does it mean Avalon is much larger than Camry? Or does it mean Camry is one cubic foot larger than Azera? Or does it mean Avalon is one cubic foot larger than Azera? Or does it mean Camry is no slouch in the size dept?
    Hard to tell the way it is written.

    If you are referring to allmet's post, he has already admitted he can't really notice/feel much difference between one car and another. That's his perception/opinion. Can't argue about those things, so I won't.

    Measurements of legrooom, headroom, shoulder room and hiproom are measuremnts of usable space, if you have a normal human body with all of those bodyparts, e.g. I suppose if you have no head then headroom does not matter much, right?
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Azera and Avalon both shine in many areas we are discussing. Volume, power (oh, by the way, the all-aluminum Lambda engines in the Azera/Sonata are also very flexible and can be tuned to upwards of 300hp), comfort, safety, luxury, etc...

    I know you guys are going to hate me for bringing CR into this but their studies show Azera can run head-to-head with Avalon, with Azera winning in areas such as customer satisfactions, and predicted reliability, and Avalon winning in areas such as fuel efficiency and resale values, each other neck by neck in the large sedan class. This especially bodes well for the Azera, a first year and unknown model, especially something from Hyundai.

    At the end of the day, there are no wrong choices. Personally I would take the Azera and the savings but that's just me ;)
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Until someone beats it. :confuse:

    Who started this?

  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    For 2006 models

    Positioning the (Avalon's) front seat for our standard-seating mannequin (an average-dimension six-foot male), the rear seat affords our same mannequin 6.2 inches of knee room--yep, half a foot. That's 2.4 more than in the Azera, 3.2 more than in the Passat, and the sort of stretch space a pricey ticket buys you on Virgin Atlantic. ota_avalon_interior_engine.html
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 1553
    It would have been nice if Motor Trend compared all of the interior measurements side by side.
    In my opinion, the real test will be when Toyota introduces it's 2nd. generation Avalon. How will Hyundai respond? They should have added a few more of the available features of the Korean model to the 07 US version.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    thanks for posting this comparo - IMPO one of the fairest I've read:
    - it confirms several things -
    1) the Avalon is measurably quicker than the Azera and does get almost 4 mpg more while it does it.
    2) the Avalon rear seat is (with apologies to the 500) the most spacious in its class, as you quoted
    3) Interior volume measurements can be misleading
    4)The Azera is 'softer' and does offer a 'better' ride than the sport tuned Avalon Touring. Don't think that would have been the same had they tested an XLS/Ltd., but, OTH, then the 'softer' Avalon would have been downgraded for being 'sloppier'.
    5) this test really ended up in a 3 way tie, that close - the Azera being lauded for its value, the Passat (which I regard as a 'mid-size' car) for its sporting performance and power (neck and neck with the Av), the Avalon first as the best compromise.
    It does confirm that, indeed, Hyundai has managed to design and build a car that is definitely competitive in this 'near-luxo' class. Best value? - probably - the jury's still out on long term resale values and/or reliability (although preliminary results on this last count are really good).
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    A local Lincoln/Merc. dealer in Syracuse NY is advertising
    a new 07 Grand Marquis for $18.9xx plus tax and tag.

    Not a bad deal for a REAL old school large sedan! :shades:
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    don't expect the 08 Avalon to be significantly different, Toyota has a history of 4 to 5 year product cycles - for 08 I'm guessing the 6 speed automatic and standard VSC/TRAC, both of which may NOT be real improvements. As far as the Azera is concerned, I don't know that it needs much other than an optional NAV system and possibly a tightened up 'sports' model, although a visit or two to 'Jenny Craig' would help both power and FE - but I wonder whether the Hyundai shopper is ready for a Hyundai with a sticker price well over $30k?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Dealers commonly advertise an ultra low price on a single vehicle as a way of luring buyers to the dealership for a "bait and switch" scheme.
    You should not place a high level of faith in dealership's newspaper ads.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    Rear leg room is nice on the Avalon, but when my head hits the roof even with the back seat reclined, all the leg room in the world won't make up for that. If it had only an inch more rear headroom it would be perfect!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Generally tall car buyers would never ride in the back seat of their own car under any circumstances (especially with someone else just as tall in the front seat), yet they make the ability to sit comfortably in the rear "behind themself" an important issue in choosing their vehicle.

    Even if someone else might drive the car, common sense would have the tallest passenger ride in the front passenger seat.
    If you occasionally have several very tall passengers and one must ride in back and their head brushes the headliner for a 20 minute ride to eat dinner out, "oh well." They can deal with it.
    It is an issue that probably won't ever come up in most people's lives.
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