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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison



  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    JAX.........This is advertised at a "old school" long
    time 1 owner L-M dealer............

    Clearly posted in ad x at this price y more in stock.
    They have always posted their ads like this.
    Heritage L-M Syracuse NY

    I wish other dealers in my area were like these guys!
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    How about us NBA players?
  • quietproquietpro Posts: 702
    It's easy to discount head room when it isn't a factor for you personally. For those of us who are used to living in a vertically challenged world, it's a great feeling to be able to "relax" and sit up rather than be forced to slouch into a car seat.

    You guys love your cars and have blathered on quite repetitively about power, FE, resale, warranty, etc. so don't summarily dismiss someone's genuine concern to be comfortable whether it be in the front OR back seat. Tall people occasionally have tall friends and these groups of tall people sometimes travel further than to a local restaurant. On such trips, none of us are all that worried about resale value, whether we have 20 hp more or less than the similary sized car driving beside us, or if we're getting 28 vs. 30 mpg. What we DO care about is being able to enjoy ourselves once we reach our destination without having a stiff neck or sore back.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Same guy pimping Hyundai a month later. I know you love Hyundai with a passion, but come on...

    To be considered for this category, it must be larger than a Toyota Camry, Buick LaCrosse, or Hyundai Sonata. Seating 6 is preferable. RWD is optimal, of course.

    How about making it simpler.
    It must seat three adults in the rear seat in comfort. If it doesn't pass this litmus test, it's not a large car.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    It must seat three adults in the rear seat in comfort. If it doesn't pass this litmus test, it's not a large car.

    Works for me. Also, I'm thinking the under $30k is a little too restrictive. Does anyone think we should adjust that, or even just drop it?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    How about "Large Sedans from Non-Luxury Brand Comparison" or "Non-Luxury Large Sedans Comparison"?
  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
    If you drop anything, drop this thread. It has little to do with competitive comparisons to Azera. As we have seen recently the blabbering about engine sizes & HP in Camry vs. Sonata (not large sedans) to Avalon was at best a yawn. Some of these people need to take a deep breath and consider anger management support groups.

    The various sub-topics should be exclusive to Azera.
  • gamlegedgamleged Posts: 442
    I believe the "Large Sedans for Under $30,000 Comparision" is a thread which appears in a number of forums besides the Azera forum. For example, I see it's also in the Toyota Avalon forum... ;)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    To answer you and gamleged and anyone else who is wondering, this discussion resides on the main Sedans board. It is linked to every group of all the cars listed at the top.

    We've established this before, but let's do it again: this is not an Azera discussion. It is a discussion about all of the listed vehicles. You can certainly stop following it if it doesn't interest you. Okay? :)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    What's a better term for "non-luxury"? That's what we need and I can't think of one at the moment. I guess we could use that if there isn't one...
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    The Sonata is BIGGER than the Maxima, so why not include Sonata here too? EPA classifies Sonata as a large car but classifies Maxima as a mid-sized car. All Sonatas are also under $30,000. Maxima SLE is not.

    EPA volume, 2007 Maxima / 2007 Sonata:

    Passenger Volume 104 ft3 (4D) 105 ft3 (4D)
    Luggage... Volume. 16 ft3 (4D).. 16 ft3 (4D)

    Also, you say, "... making it simpler. It must seat three adults in the rear seat in comfort... If it doesn''s not a large car."

    But that's a problem. What seems comfortable is totally subjective so it cannot be a litmus test. A litmus test is NEVER subjective.

    How about just using the EPA size classification as the litmus test on whether a car is large?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    How about "Mainstream Marque Large Sedan Comparison"?
  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    "I wonder whether the Hyundai shopper is ready for a Hyundai with a sticker price well over $30k?"

    I think so. The fact the majority of Azeras are purchased with the Limited trim, and many opt for the Ultimate package, which puts the price north of $30K (despite the price tag, there are tons of neat features packed into the car).

    As they say, you build a good car, there will be buyers. As long as Hyundai continues doing what they have been doing the last decade or so, consumers are definitely ready for a $30K+ Hyundai. They already do, as a matter of fact, including the Azera, newly released Veracruz, and soon, its luxury RWD sedan.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 1574
    I still believe that although Hyundai produces a good value car, they have not been able to attract the Generation X buyer in the sedan market.
    Most of the buyers that I see are either the entry level, SUV, or like me, slightly gray or gray er.
    I think that they must work harder to attract the younger affluent buyers.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    'seating 3 in comfort in the rear seat' that would be too subjective - 3 what - border collies? Recently was stuck in the rear seat of a Town Car, at 6' I would tell you that even that car as bloated as it is, is not even comfortable for one, no leg room. The Sonata and Camry have a better rear seat, never mind the 500s/Avalons/300s/Azeras etc.. As one poster put it, very, very few of us spend much time in our own back seats anyway and would never buy anything with a front bench - no lateral support and generally less comfortable. Don't have any problem, with giving pletko his wish, though, include those GMs and CVs - as bad as they are, they certainly are big and very very cheap!
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    they have not been able to attract the Generation X buyer in the sedan market.
    likely true, that GenX buyer will spend the extra money for a name and a perception, might overextend themselves putting a BMW/Lexus/MB in their driveways while those greybeards you are talking about wouldn't give a darn about what others think and want their car to be necessarily comfortable and in large part, a reliable appliance. It will take a while for Hyundai to lose its 'Korean' car image and sell well to younger buyers - in the meanwhile, I'm guessing that many Azera buyers are folks that legitimately could have afforded to spend more....
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    Many of the Azera buyers could afford to spend more because they choose to buy Azeras instead of BMW/LEXUS/MB and there fore saved their money.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    I have seen the term near luxury used in other classifications by other organizations. And perhaps a separate class for us tall folks who want ot be able to fit in our cars?
  • gamlegedgamleged Posts: 442
    "perhaps a separate class for us tall folks who want to be able to fit in our cars"

    That would be "convertibles!"... ;)
  • jaymagicjaymagic Posts: 309
    If you make the heading EPA large sedans, which actually sell for under $30,000, not sticker for under $30,000, you could easily eliminate virtually ALL of the Avalon/Azera discussion. How many Avalons sold actually sticker for under $30,000? Only the base Avalon XL even has an MSRP under $30,000. The Touring, with destination charges, is over, as are ALL the rest of the Avalon model -- WAY OVER.

    To be fair, my Azera Limited, with Ultimate Option, floor mats, etc. stickered for just over $30,000 at $30,429. And the coming Limiteds with the new Ultimate package will still sticker for under $31K. How many will sell for under $30K -- ALL OF THEM.

    Just wait till we start seeing the new Azera GLS with the 3.3 liter engine on the lots. Its base sticker is for under $25,000. That should be interesting for this forum.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    You can get a Grand Marquis for under $20K quite consistently. ;)

    My personal litmus test is simpler still, but I didn't originally include it since it would elicit a firestorm of flak from MR Hyundai.

    "To be considered a "large sedan" it must offer seating for 6."

    Can't be much simpler than that. Of course, that kills almost all of the market now, since every car has this bloated center console from hell in it. It kills the entire purpose of having a large car - to carry the whole family in it instead of a SUV.(seating for 6 is virtually the same as 7 for 95%+ of families)
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    Plekto, maybe you need to be shopping/reading in the minivan forums if you like 6 passenger sedans.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 1582
    Obviously to seat 6, the car must have either a front bench seat, a jump seat, or be a limo.
    I may be old, but not that old.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Some a few cars do offer it, which is nice.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    I have one and it has plenty of head room! It is a 1974 Eldorado.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the new Azera GLS with the 3.3 liter engine on the lots. Its base sticker is for under $25,000. That should be interesting
    Haven't heard this one - would suggest to you that it will be underpowered, given that the Azera is overweight to begin with - and from personal observation still not very good with a gallon of gas - the Sonata isn't. Would further suggest to you Azera owners, that nobody will gain if Hyundai makes a cheaper Azera, such things cheapen the name and ultimately hurt resale values, something that I understand NOBODY who bought an Azera worries about, they all plan to keep their cars 12 years when the national average for all cars is between 3 and 4. ;)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    hardhawk, have no idea how tall you are or at what height you consider finding an appropriate car a problem - but understand that the mfgrs of all cars must design to a 'norm'. Leg room is more easily accomodated for, than torso and arm lengths. Abnormally heavy folks will have the same sort of problem - for a different reason. If these kind of things were designed in, a far greater portion of the population couldn't drive at all? Feel for you, though, my son at 6'6" and about 260 had very limited choices.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Hyundai is expanding options for consumers. The soon availability of 4 cylinder on all Sonata trims will allow the Azera GLS to slide in nicely. I don't know if creating a $25 price tag would cheapen the name and directly correlate to resale values.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    if creating a $25 price tag would cheapen the name and directly correlate to resale values.
    you can pretty much bet on it - the Sonata V6 can generally be bought for about $5k cheaper than a similar Accord or Camry - almost exactly the difference in value after 3 years. The point being that the Sonata really didn't save much money at all and because all values of vehicles are directly related to what they sell for new. The Avalon holds it value better than any of the others in this group because it does cost more upfront, isn't discounted much, and does have that 'Toyota' reputation. The same 'false savings' may happen to the Azera especially if it becomes possible to buy that GLS for a smidgen over/under 20k or for some reason Hyundai starts discounting the 3.8 models heavily.
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