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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison



  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I'd take a 1998 S500 anyday. Now those were beautiful cars.

    You can get a mint condition low-mileage model for about the price of a base model Civic. 10 years and 65-60K in depreciation later, it's a sweet deal.

    I've also seen 1999-2000 S430s going for around $20K. It may be 6-7 years old, but it sure beats all the new cars in that price range.
  • fannibalfannibal Posts: 23
    Hyundai Azera is the segment leader in the Strategic Vision quality survey for 2007

    <---- one proud 2006 Azera owner!
  • sergio19sergio19 Posts: 90

    Great find!
    I'm not surprised. By now you'd think (and I'm guilty of this) that people should at the very least start paying attention that Hyundai has come a long way and that they are building QUALITY cars!

    I have been a Toyota fanatic for a very long time till my brother bought a Sonata and after 3 years owning it still loves it. I decided to break that barrier (Snobism) and took a serious look at the Sonata (2006). My problem was when I walked into the showroom and saw this thing called AZERA and said what the hell is that?...well...the rest is history.
    Just after taking it for a test drive it was sold when I got on the freeway!
    What a great car!

    Another "proud" Hyundai (AZERA) owner.

  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    In that survey's results, I found this interesting: Overall, Volkswagen AG had the highest corporate average, followed by Honda Motor Co. (nyse: HMC - news - people ), General Motors Corp. (nyse: GM - news - people ), Toyota and Hyundai. Among brand names, BMW was followed by Infiniti, Mercedes Benz, Mini and Jaguar.
    So, Hyundai is not up to General Motors' quality level, and GM beats Toyota too. That does not really sound so encouraging, now does it?
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    All those were within points of each other. It doesn't necessarily mean one's higher than another but rather those consumers surveyed were satisfied with their products.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    Look at the consumer ratings on this page and read the reviews to see what Edmunds forum readers of their cars.
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Posts: 202
    You have been fortunate in meeting the few attorneys that are ethical. If you talk to average people I think you will find that their opinion of attorneys is very negative. Because of our legal system they are simply a necessary evil.
    I have had to retain four over the course of my life and none of them made a positive impression on me. I've been contacted by numerous attorneys to do work for them, not just criminal. I've turned down work because they didn't have a clue about their clients' needs but they still took that retainer fee.
    I'll keep my relationship with my attorneys and try to assure that their clients get better representation.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Um, this really isn't the place...
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    Sometimes I think the survey companies keep trying different kinds of ranking criteria until they come up with sets of results which spotlight EVERY manufacturer as being the best in some category. Then they offer those survey results for sale to the advertising departments of all those manufacturers.
    So in the end, it is more of a money train than it is a legitimate attempt to rank cars.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    now THAT would be cynical ;) and maybe even true.
    The Azera has aced this type of thing ever since it first came out and now all of a sudden is gone; the Avalon while it does wells both long and short term has never appeared in this list TMK; the Montego/500 you can understand based on slow sales and older drivetrains; but the Grand Prix?
  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
    re. 2439 "Then they offer those survey results for sale to the advertising departments of all those manufacturers."

    You may have something here Joe. Sorta like the CEO interviewing a candidate for CFO. CEO..."so, how much is 2 + 2"? CFO candiate "depends on what you want it to be"
  • alexstorealexstore Posts: 264
    Finally, all of you who love azera came to realize that JD power ratings cannot be trusted. Few month ago here I was arguing how easy is it for automakers to raise their scores by simply offering to " help " fill out survey in exchange for oil change, free maintenance, fill up , etc.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    Any of these ratings must be taken with the understanding that buyers are reluctant to admit that they made a poor decision when purchasing any item costing big bucks.
    We will usually defend the items that we have purchased.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    You really have to have your head examined if any of you take this survey seriously. JDP initial quality survey has very little to do with how well the car will last in the long run. Does anyone takes this kind of survey seriously. Another retarded survey is the strategic vision quality survey. CONSUMER REPORTS is still the best barometer of vehicle reliability in my opinion.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Thus...that is why it is called INITIAL QUALITY. There are cars that come off the assembly line and the initial quality is terrible. I'm sure we all know this to be true. Right now, it's impossible to do a long term reliability survey for the Azera, it's only in it's 2nd (going on 3rd) year.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    CONSUMER REPORTS is still the best barometer of vehicle reliability in my opinion.

    I spit in their general direction. :P
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    Barnstormer, you were being polite and more than kind. :blush:
  • alexstorealexstore Posts: 264
    I no longer subscribe to them as I find hat sometimes their results are different from mine. They usually look at other factors then enjoyment for your ride. They are family oriented subscription.
    In reference to reliability if you take care and don't abuse your vehicle any vehicle will last a long time. Reliability in my opinion depends on person driving it.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Posts: 1,106
    Reliability in my opinion depends on person driving it.

    It's not the only factor, but it is an important one, IMO, and it's one that CR doesn't even try to account for . . not sure how they could, really.
  • alexstorealexstore Posts: 264
    since genesis does not fall into large sedan, but most likely will be Hyundai's entry into midsize luxury market what will be the name Hyundai chooses. IF follow its past and copy Honda into Hyundai, then Acura into Acuyrai.
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Why wouldn't the Genesis fall into the large sedan category when it will be larger than the Azera???
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    RE: 2451
    If the Azera is classified as a large car, certainly the Genesis should carry the same classification.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    Is there an article stating how big the passenger and cargo compartments will be in a Genesis?
    Can you post a link to it?
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Sorry, only thing I have to go on is the word of the Hyundai guy I talk to...who is very reliable with his info I might add. Everything he told me about the Azera before it even showed up, he was right on the money. He also told me about the Veracruz and more recently the Genesis.

    He has said the exterior dimensions are a couple inches longer than the Azera, maybe just as wide. At the least, I would expect the interior space to be very, very close to what the Azera has. Heck, the Sonata is knocking on the door of the large sedan category to be honest.

    Azera Specs
    Genesis Specs

    Azera / Genesis
    Wheelbase - 109.4" / 115.6"
    Length - 192.7" / 197.0"
    Width - 72.8" / 73.3"
    Height - 58.7" / 58.7"

    The numbers on the Genesis are VERY close to the numbers on the BMW 7 Series.

    7-Series Specs
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    BH certainly falls into large sedan category in classfication. It's a 7er in size, 5er as the competing class, and sub 3er in price - trifecta :)
  • alexstorealexstore Posts: 264
    Cheap Man's Bimmer? Sorry, this doesn't work. BMW- big money works. Hyundai not known to people buying cars priced @ $50k+. If it makes you happy that you bought this imitation, good luck. But in no way this car will match BMW in performance and balance. If Hyundai creates luxury marquee and spends 10+ years perfecting it, people buying luxury sedans will think twice as they do now with Lexus. BTW Lexus now has $100k+ car and same thing will eventually happen to Hyundai if it launches luxury car. History is repeating itself. Initially cheap, efficient Japanese cars grew to become large and expensive luxury cars. Same history will be with Hyundai, cheap, not really efficient cars will grow in size and price.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    But in no way this car will match BMW in performance and balance.

    I never said it will, or will not. The judgment should be reserved until at least the car is released. Everything I said were true (starting at sub-30K, rival 7er in size, and compete with luxury midsize vehicles). You're reading (way) too much into what I said. Thanks for the lecture, though.
  • alexstorealexstore Posts: 264
    Well not according to allmet. I said same thing to him about genesis some time ago. He insists that we need to discuss this car in this forum, though its not on market yet.
    BTW Rolex and Rolexx are not the same watch. It looks like you are getting a deal, but in reality you will miss in details.
  • jlindhjlindh Posts: 282
    I'd like to point out that my Rolex keeps lousy time. It's not nearly as accurate as my Seiko. IMHO, the purpose of a watch is to keep accurate time, everything else is just window dressing.
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