Nissan Frontier Crew Cab vs Ford Explorer Sport Trac - II

keanec

I did not at any time tell anybody not to Ford. I said if it was PROVEN that Ford designed the Explorer poorly with regards to roll over protection; don't defend them. IF IT WAS PROVEN. I do not have my mind made up at all. In fact, IMHO, I think that Ford wouldn't be that stupid. That is why I asked for some independent verification (Facts) by way of studies, etc... Your Facts are opinions - not facts. I did not say it was a design flaw - I said IF IT WAS A DESIGN FLAW.

I can handle facts; Mr. Nicholson. Not subjective arbitrary opinions on something as serious as safety and lives. Remember, it was Nightshark - not me - who made the assertions in the first place. I asked him/or anybody else to show some facts for or against his assertions. The best possible way of proving/disproving this is through government/insurance/safety assoc. studies of past crashes/independant lab tests, etc.. Those are facts (or close enough) that I and most readers will accept - not that it is too subjective to answer.

Personaly, for what it is worth, I don't agree/believe that Nightshark is right at this point - hence my asking for proof.

keanec

Mahimahi & FordSt - Father-in-law just got back from Alaska - 9000+miles of driving his F150 and 5th wheel. Absolutely no problems. He had to take runs at some mountains to make sure he kept his speed up, but he mostly drove with OD On.

keanec

http://autonet.ca/AutonetStories/stories.cfm?storyID=244

I first looked at the story and saw the picture and said????

mahimahi

keanec,
Interesting article. I tell you what I dream of is a Toyota or Nissan(Honda won't be ready)to come out with a 3/4 or 1-ton 4x4 diesel crew cab that would be sweet Have you checked under your truck yet on the bearing carrier.

gooba,
My part came in and it's got a different part number than the one he ordered. I haven't called the dealer yet, I'm going by there in the morning to schedule an appointment and make arrangements for a loaner from them. I'll ask them if it's a new design. I'll post sometime in the morning here in this topic to keep you guys up to date.

fordsporttrac,
Got any pictures yet of your truck to post? I'm still waiting (with you)for your hard bed cover. Maybe Ford plans on giving it to you as a Christmas gift

gooba

Thanks.You might ask them about Nissan bulletin NTB00-025.Supposedly that is supposed to be about this problem.I would like to have someone I know to have at least read it.Good luck.

keanec

Bearing Carrier? I must have missed something, What is is? What do I look for?

gooba

I know you asked mahimahi this question,but I will try and answer it.I hope you do not mind mahimahi.
Look under your truck and follow your driveshaft from the rear differential to the transmission.As you follow the shaft up to the transmission you will see a crossmember.If you have the carrier bearing you will notice that the driveshaft passes through a half round item that is mounted on top of that crossmember.This component has a metal frame around it and has a rubber structure inside.The problem is at the base of this.A piece of the rubber pops out from the frame around it (usually at the bottom).This has caused in some vehicles vibrations on take off and noise in more extreme cases.I hope this helps.

mahimahi

No no problem. Keanec, it looks like a 'thick' seal but I think it actually holds the bearing in place and serves as a kind of shock absorber. On mine the bottom was pushing out it wasn't out all the way just starting to . Like i said I post to you guys in a few hours what the dealer says.

keanec

When pulling my trailer, up hills - or when the engine is working - I can feel a vibration through the steering, I wonder if this is the cause? I will look tonight when my wife brings it home.

keanec

When I first looked at that Honda article, all I saw was the title Honda's new pickup? and then I saw the picture of the ST. Had to do a double take.

mahimahi

Yeah, they say that might be the reason that Honda might get into trucks. I was disappointed to read that they are looking at the same type of vehicle(not truck) as the ST and not a REAL pick up.

mahimahi

Ok guys, I'm scheduled for 8am tomorrow. I just can't believe how helpful this dealer is being. The service writer said it should take about two hours to do the swap. He also said that it indeed is a different design and made by a different manufacturer - this is why the different number. Hope this one is better I can't wait to see if the "shutter" is gone after this.

steve234

Let us just say that my take on what you wrote was not what you intended. IMHO, the general public has unrealistic expectations on all matters. They want something that cost half the price, with twice the reliability and ten times the features. All manufacturing has made great strides in their products, but many of the improvements are made by fine tuning. Unfortuneately, this means that if just one component of thousands is out of tolerance by a small percentage, it will make the whole thing a piece of juck.

Honda could do worst than emulate the ST. Just imagine if they copied the Aztec. I saw my first one up close today and my only thought was it was nice that even the blind could be a GM designer.

ebbgreatdane

Here are a couple of questions I haven't seen...

When will Edmunds publish the pricing information for the Nissan SC-V6's? It appears they have recently added the 2001 reviews for the Nissan Frontier to the Nissan line-up but excluded the pricing for the super charged option.

In reading the posts here, I would comment that Nissan was first out of the chute with the compact pickup crew cab (when everyone said they were ugly, useless, poor design, etc). For whatever it's worth, Ford et al seem to be playing catch up for the 2000-2001 season.

Lastly, does Ford have a V8 slated for their 2001 ST's? I think they'll need it to keep up with the Nissan super charged beastie.

All in all I think both makers are offering the right vehicles in the right markets. I just hope we aren't debating the El Camino Vs. the Ranchero come 10 years from now. That is I hope the trend on these things last.

fordsporttrac

Sorry for the lack of replies I just got back from San Fran this morning.

You said;
Maybe Ford plans on giving it to you as a christmas gift
============================

Xmas of what year? ;-> I'm starting to get a little annoyed but I haven't been a squeaky wheel. I think I'll start squeaking this week.

fordsporttrac

You said;
Lastly, does Ford have a V8 slated for their 2001
ST's? I think they'll need it to keep up with the
Nissan super charged beastie.
=============================

I think you should check some of the specs and rags. The Nissan 3.3 Supercharged engine will probably boost the performance to just about where the Ford 4.0 V6 is now. If ford put a V8 in the ST it would be to compete against the bigger Trucks not the CC.

Currently the Nissan CC gets poor marks for power. The supercharger isn't gonna make the 3.3 a monster engine its just gonna solve the power problem.

Even with the supercharger I'd bet that the ST's 4.0 could still out run/haul the CC's 3.3 SC. :-) In time we'll see.

ebbgreatdane

I suppose you are correct regarding the power line-up. I am wondering if the weight difference between the two will play into this? It seems that the 300lb difference between them would lean in the CC's favor.

Also, I would be willing to bet that the engine in the Nissan will still be running/hauling just as good at 400,000 miles as it did at mile one. I wish I could say the same of the Ford but statistically I don't see it. Fix Or Repair Daily. F. Over Rebuilt Dodge. Those seem to be good empirical summations of how I believe Ford to be perceived.

Don't get me wrong. Nissan is no angel of a company. If they had common sense they would never have killed they're only sports car line and destroyed their share of the pickup market.

keanec

welcome back - In answer to your early query - 1 belt runs the power steering & water pump; 1 belt runs the a/c compressor; and 1 belt runs the alternator; At least I hope that is right - I am not a mechanic.

keanec

Gotta go partly with Fordst - Nissan is "catching up" a little with the SC; although the weight will make a difference as you say. They are probably, IMHO, pulling ahead but without hooking these two "bumper to bumper" or putting them in a tractor pull, it will be tough to say who has more power. I did see a post on a Canadian car website that test drove the sc and said it really puts the ball back in the competitors (st) court - it kicks --s!

keanec

the bottom of my "rubber" piece is broken also. I can pull down on the drive shaft and it spurts out even further. The rubber is actually broken on mine. when i get a chance I am going to bring the truck in and get the rubber & the oil cap fixed.

FordST - That's another defect!! one more and we catch the ST!!

By the bye - i have run with 35lbs in my truck and I can really see the difference in Gas mileage. Do yyou think I might wear out the tires faster? If so, no biggy, I always like to take off the OEMs and put on Michelins anyway. For the most part Oem tires are spec'ed to wear faster (according to my "Tire guy"

mahimahi

I just got back from the dealership and the truck is a whole different truck. The acceleration is smooth(w/o the 'slight' vibration)and responsive. My dealership was great I got there an hour late(9am) and the got me out at 10:30am. If you guys haven't had yours changed yet, get your dealer to order it and make sure they get the updated part. The vibration that I had was so slight one might think that it's just the way it's supposed to be but with the new assy. in there shouldn't be any at all.

gooba

That is great.I am still waiting for my dealer to get mine in.Friday will be 3 weeks.It should be soon.

fordsporttrac

mahimahi,
Went to the dealer about the cover. Seems I was to smart for my own good. I knew the cover was late availability when I brought my truck so I made the deal to include the cover upfront and paid for it in the deal.

Ford was prepared for the problem too and sent certificates to all ST owners allowing them to buy the cover directly from Ford at sticker price. But Ford will not ship any Tonneau covers to dealers until they fill all the orders from the certificates. So my first complaint to the dealer was very helpful. They asked me order the cover with my certificate and when it arrives they will install it and credit my charge card.

By making the deal up front I saved about $100 but Fords program was putting a huge delay on my delivery by stalling dealer orders.

mahimahi

Maybe you'll have it before your fist snowfall I was curious, will it support "some" amount of snow on it? Because I was wondering how strong it was where the hinges were, are you going to have to go outside every couple of hours to clean it. We don't have that problem in Florida just rain and lots of sunshine.

Well it's good that you got a straight answer from your dealer, because something like this where you've had to wait at least six months for a part that you ordered could be very aggravating.

steve234

If the 35 lbs is not above the maximum rating on the tires, you should have no trouble if you rotate them between 7-10k miles as recommended. Keep an eye on treadwear pattern, but it should not be a big deal. As far as OEM tires wearing quickly, I have had excellent wear out of most of my vehicles OEM tires. Michelins should wear better, but then you pay a little more for them.

keanec

I am sure I saw problems with Oil caps somewhere else. Also, wasn't there a problem with seals??

As for the bushing on the driveshaft - Service Advisor knew nothing about any problem and said there was know bulletin on it... So I showed him and he said oh; well fix that. He did say he thinks he has to order a whole new driveshaft? He is going to check tommorrow. He also doesn't know anything about a new replacement part.

Me thinks me will have problems with this service advisor!!!

fordsporttrac

The cover Im told is pretty strong. Someone else reported that a small child could sit on the edge with the tailgate down with no problem. A full size adult would probably crack the cover.

I got my hitch installed this afternoon. Hidden Hitch Tubular. Very slick. I can only see the reciever and about 6" on each side. I'm gonna trailer my wave runners to upstate NY this weekend so I'll take some pictures and give you folks a performance report.

The hitch place had all sorts of Neat toys. He had VERY COOL dual position rack. In the lower position it extended behind the bed and would support up to 10' long sheets of whatever. 4' in the bed. 2' on the tailgate and this support extending 4' from the class III hitch with a 2' overhang allowed.

In the upper postion it would support 18'+ long suff like a cannoe. From the roof racks to 3' past the open tail gate. The weight limit of the roof racks needs to be considered when loading.

keanec

Thanks for the advice...I think I will take it...I was going to go down to 30lbs, but I don't think I will; the ride is noticeablly worse except I can hear the road more.

As to OEM tires, it depends which car you get. It is actually the car companies that "spec" the tires they want on their vehicles, and many times they spec to save money. I have no experience with Ford, but my Honda and Nissans and Saturn (and father's Dodge Caravan)all had tires that only lasted 40-60k; the replacements Michelin and others were rated for much longer I was told by Nissan and Honda folk that this was the case.

keanec

Correction - NOT noticably worse.

mahimahi

keanec,
There is a NSB on the seal, that's why there is a completely different manufacturer making the redigned part. Give your service advisor the 'new' number I posted yesterday or give him the old one it should superceed to the 'new' part. It will be a whole new driveshaft assy. the bearing and the carrier is part of the driveshaft, with the flanges you can't get the parts separately. Don't let these guys jerk you around. My dealer didn't know anything about it either until I brought mine in...they were awesome, unbelievable service they never questioned me...in fact they threw my truck on the rack as soon as I brought in and I didn't call before hand. In fact I'm going to write them a letter thanking them for such good service(this is something I never do, but since it's harder and harder to find I think deserves praising).

fordsporttrac,
When I got my hitch(mine's a draw-tite that's hidden the only thing you see is the reciever it nice how they're designing them now) I saw the thing that you're talking about(rack), but I think I saw the same thing at Home Depot in their truck section(with the tool boxes and such)it might be cheaper there than at the accessory store. Although I great deal on my hitch only $149 with the pigtail, installation, 2" ball and including tax. Everybody else wanted $180 plus all the extras. I will take pictures this weekend too and I promise to post them.

keanec

Mahimahi;

Could you please check those #'s again - my dealer says there are no $ in the #. Thanks!!

gooba

Try S

steve234

My last two f150s would get over 50K out of a set. The first came with Tiger Paws and the second with Goodyears. I stayed with the original brands on both vehicles except at 115K, on my 91, I went with a set of Bridgestone LT tires. 40K and I went back to Goodyears. My wife got 80K out of the original Goodyears on her 93 Shadow. Since I remember only getting 20K from tires in the past, I don't have any gripes. It won't be too much longer when we expect to get 100k from a set.

mahimahi

the letter is weird, it's an 's' with a line off the top and the bottom. There's no key on the key board for it It's close to the dollar sigh that's why I used it, but what I will do is scan my part order sheet and post it for you at our site, ok?

ingalls

I think one of the biggest problems with the Nissan running out of steam is the gearing of the rear end. I have a 2000 Crew Cab 4X4 with a manual transmission and I found out that it has a 4.63 limited slip rear axle. This is the main problem with this truck, it's not the engine...it's the gear ratio. This engine is running at half of red line, 3,000 rpm at 65mph. The automatic I believe comes with a 4.38, a little better but still too high. The Ford comes standard with a 3.73, or limited slip 4.10. I had a 1999 2 door Sport with the 410 and that was too high for that vehicle also, but the 4.63 in the Nissan is way too high!!..It doen's matter what engine they drop in it, weather it's super charged or not if they don't change the gear ratio in the rear it's still going to run out of steam!!...it may get up there faster (using a bit more fuel) but it's still going to be running at very high rpm's. The ultimate combination for this vehicle would to put a 3.73 rear axle and the well proven 240hp Pathfinder engine!!. ( I have notified Nissan on this, doubt if they will change it though) Ford is suppose to come out with a 4 door Ranger, if they were to drop the 4.6 V8 in that truck with the 3.73 that would be a great truck. They still need to get rid of the 5 speed automatic, they have been noted for numerous problems...5 speed manual??....good idea but doubt they will comply. For those of you that would like to do some neat after market changes, I've done the following to mine and it looks awesome!!. I put the new Snugtop shell on it, it makes it look like a SUV as it has the matching bars on the top. It's held on with 6 bolted on hooks that can be removed if you need to haul anything. If you put on a shell get the bedrug, don't get the bedliner. The bedliner is hell on your knees and the price difference is about the same. The front driving lights can be replaced with PIA's which brighten them by about 4 times. The are the same diameter and plug right into the existing system. I took my old lights and mounted them to the back bumper. There are 2 holes on the back bumper that are on opposite sides of the license plate. They mount perfectly there, you just splice them into your backup lights and they help tremendously when backing up in dark places!. The shell runs aprox $1,200 and the bedrug runs about $350.00. The PIA lights run (installed) about $250.00 and all these goodies are well worth it.

mahimahi

I posted pics on the driveway site, if you guys want to see.

gooba

Very nice.That is alot of boat.Now I know why you get out in it quite a bit.

mahimahi

Thanks, Gooba.
The truck has absolutely no problem pulling it, too. Today I could have used some good mats, I thimnking of weathertec? I wish that catchall made some our trucks. I'm scared that the Husky's will have too tall of a lip on the side.

Ingalls,
If I'm not mistaken my Crew Cab has a 4:10 rearend. I'll check my 'sticker' tomm., it's at work I think it says it there. I have an Auto 4X4 with the limited-slip and the motor turns 3000rpm when I'm going 80mph. But I'll check on the ratio. I'm very interested in the driving lights that you mentioned...I forgot who it was that mentioned it a few months ago, where did you get them and what model are they? Did you just unplug your wires and plug in the new lights?

fordsporttrac

Got back from my Trip to upstate NY. Towed the waverunners with the AC on all they way up. It wasn't as impressive as I thought I would be, but it did MUCH better than my old 4Runner.

It did downshift out of OD a few dozen times durring the 4 hour drive but I was maintaining 75Mph on the uphill climbs with no problems. Only on the steep hills did it down shift.

I hit 80 Mph a few times without any problems. Even the trailer was smooth. I was able to hold 80 while climbing the steep hills too but it did shift out of OD.

Things I noticed;

80 Mph = 2900 RPM with OD on and Trailer in tow.

Acceleration with trailer in tow is;
Excellent from 0-30, (almost got wiplash )
sucks from 30-39, (delayed shifting into 3rd)
Good from 40-65,
Average from 65-80. (Good if you compair it to
my old 4Runner)

I was VERY impressed by the gas milage. In the 4Runner, with an 18 Gal tank, on the same trip, with the AC on, towing the trailer, I had to stop and refuel and would arrive with 3/4 of a tank. The ST has a 20.5 Gallon tank and I arrived with 1/4 of a tank and never stopped. I haven't done the math yet but I figure I used about 5 gallons less fuel with the ST.

I took 3 QUICK photos of my ST & Trailer and put them on Driveway.com today. The resolution is low to keep all the slow modem fokes happy.

I purchased the soft Tonneau cover just for the trip. Lucky I did cuz it rained all the way there and back, and my wife brought half the baby's room with us. When my hard cover comes in I'll sell the soft cover. Soft cover has 4 turn buckles that hold it in place, so its easy to remove.

After unloading the waverunners I discovered backing the trailer was a bit of a pain. In the 4 Runner I would just drop the tailgate to see the trailer. With the soft Tonneau on it blocked my view. And the ST is so wide that it hid the trailer completely unless it was perfetly straight behind me. I was too lazy to unsnap the soft cover to see through the tailgate so I had my wife sit on the back of the trailer and used her head as the center line. :-) Looks like I need a pole/flag on the [non-permissible content removed] of trailer now.

I checked out all my tires before I left and I found they were all filled to 30lbs yet the sticker on the door says 30 in the front and 33 rear.

Looks like the engine broke in at around 3500 miles. I used about 3/4 of a quart of oil until around 3500 miles. Since then its been good.
Time for my first service anyway. :-)

I'll Take some better photos when I get the good Tonneau cover.

mahimahi

Nice looking rig fordsporttrac. I try to do some specs on my towing of my rig on my home today and post them late tonight, just to see how the frontier fares. In place of hills I'll have highway over passes

ebbgreatdane

I recently found pricing for the 2001 SC models to be $19, 899 MSRP on autos.yahoo. Can anyone here substantiate?

I'm wondering when Edmunds will include this information as it seems most of the mystery regarding the new Nissans is the little aluminum box on top of the cylinder head

fordsporttrac

Now that I have 30 seconds of breathing space I started to work on my argument that the CC isn't that much less $$ than the ST. But I'm finding it difficult to find accurate information about either vehicle so maybe some of you folks can help me make the CC information accurate and complete.

I've put the first draft of the compare doc in rtf on driveway. Can anyone let me know what is missing or just plain wrong. To be fair I'm trying to compare the new 2001 CC to the current 2001 ST in Standard options and optional equipment. Why use old data???

The goal is to compare Apples to Apples as always.

keanec

did you look at the comparison I did? i know it didn't compare the 2001 vs the 2001, but since the 2001 SC is not available I figure it is a pretty fair comparison. Any comments on my findings?

I understand why you want to try to compare "apples to apples" but since no two manufacturers put the exact same options on their vehicles - you are not getting the "apples to apples" you want. (eg. power sunroof vs manual; stick 4x4 shifter vs. push button; etc..)

i think you can justify the added cost of the st like I said before, but that doesn't mean people will buy it because of that.

gooba

It is still not apples to apples.In an earlier discussion,I believe fordst held the position that the ST was an SUV and not a truck.If that is the case then the comparison is not valid.

ingalls

The replacement light for the front I had put on by a place named Campway in Mountain View, CA. They are on the El Camino near Rengstorf. They do pretty good work for a fairly reasonable cost. They did use the existing wiring so they work the same as the others, and yes, that was me a few months back....I just haven't had the chance to check out this area in a long time!!. As far as the rear axle goes, look at the stats on these vehicles under Edmonds. They come standard with 4.38 and 4.63 limited slip. I'm concerned on how long my engine is going to last driving at 65-75 to keep up with the flow of traffic taching at 3,000 to 3,500 RPM!!...I'm going to do some checking to see if the rear end can be re-geared. I'm sure my mileage will increase by a couple of miles per gallon if I can slow down high RPM's at freeway speeds, and the engine will last a lot longer!!. I seriously don't think the supercharged engine is going to help this vehicle. Like I said it doesn't matter what engine you put in it, if you have a rear end gear ratio of a 4.63 it's going to max out at the same speed as the regular 3.3. I think it would have been much easier to put in the Pathfinder engine (240hp) instead of re-developing an existing engine that just doesn't have enough hp to match up with it's counterparts!!They need to change the rear end gearing!!. Nissan also needs to figure out another way to mount their manual transmissions. The things move back and forth constantly between shifts and during acceleration and de-acceleration. I've taken this into the dealership 3 times and the last time they tried to blame it on my aftermarket tires and rims!!!...right, that would have a lot do with that!!!..I told them that I wanted it documented so when my transmission or differential is laying out on the freeway someplace from the rubber mounts wearing away that I wanted it in their computers so I could have the pleasure of letting them know that "I told you so!!"!!

mahimahi

Last night I could only get up to 55mph, because of traffic. On flat roads with the O/D on pulling the boat: 55mph....2100rpm O/D off 3000rpm same speed. Normal driving on flat surfaces 80mph....3000rpm

keanec

Let me get this straight - Higher the gear ratio - higher the RPM? I don't know a lot about this stuff, but; correct me if I am wrong: wouldn't you want to have a higher gear ratio for pulling power? You might get better gas mileage, but I probably couldn't pull my trailer as well. Remember, the Nissan is a truck that people load up and pull trailers with. Maybe the higher gear ratio makes up for the less HP???

Like I said - I don't know much about gear ratios, but since I ride my mountain bike every day to work; I like the bigger back gears to smaller front gears to do big hills. Wouldn't that be the same in a truck?

fordsporttrac

mahimahi

I did take notice of the RPM difference on my trip too. OD downshift increased RPM's by 500 when holding the same speed.

mahimahi

If I were going on a trip to say, Miami from here I would leave the O/D on. But for around town driving because of the various overpasses here on US 19 I leave it off. Because of the 'high' revs of 3000 rpm with the O/D off and only going 55mph I would risk the tranny...I'm not keeping it after the lease anyways . If I were going to be making alot of these kind of trips(across the state) I would also get a tranny cooler and maybe an oil cooler as well. But most of my towing is going to be less than a 1/2 hr each way and with the O/D off I get better performance. remember when I posted that with my foot on the gas pedal if i shifted the O/D on the RPM's would actually climb...well if I lift my fot off it switches the O/D on and the RPM's go down like it's supposed to(I don't know if you saw where I posted the results).

keanec

Wall? you there??? Bang Bang!

Ya, i got the picture - later