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Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - VII

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    barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    I'm sorry but I don't agree with you,The Ranger outsells them all because it is a better all around vehicle for the money over any compact.The Dakota is more expansive than a Toyota and it also outsells it.For the record the Tacoma is uaw made but all proceeds go back to Japan.I won't back a Country that won't trade with the US.
    I don't know how much the Ranger outsells the Tacoma by but I think its a 6 to 1 ratio,so you think because its cheaper is the reason why they outsell all compacts,first of all its not cheaper by much.Isn't the Isuzu or the Chevy cheaper why aren't they #1.You are a typical Toyota owner has no reason to own a truck and uses it for getting groceries or taking the dog through the car wash.Your hands are probably softer than a babies bottem and you don't know what real work is.You and Spoog probably hang around in a tree house with a batman flashlight hoping batman will save you from your denial.
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    cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    "You are comparing an average truck to a
    LEGEND"

    Break out the shovel!!! LOL
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    xena1axena1a Member Posts: 286
    You get the shovel, I'll get the boots!!!
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    man I can hear the japaneese flag snapping in the wind with that legend comment. . .
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    mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    THEY ARE JUST TRUCKS. HOW YOU CAN BEAT THE SAME OLD, DEAD POINTS FOR MONTHS ON END IS BEYOND ME. YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO CONVINCE THE OTHERS TO THINK LIKE YOU, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. GET A GRIP.
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Hilux
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    handed down through generations.

    Only vehicle that applies to is the Ford, Chevy and Dodge.

    Toyota cannot get past 1970's when they had the horse power of a sick squirrel, the durability of a rusted razor blade and the cab room for midgets.

    Can we say Helux boys and girls?
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    hulk66hulk66 Member Posts: 37
    Hey spoog, Let's get the shovels for them so they can dig those so called #1 selling truck out of the mud! you know the ranger. Yes here we go again. Rangers outsell but most of them are back for repairs.Better all around??? i don't think that the ranger is better all around. NOT even close to the LEGEND TOYOTA. I have read consumer reports and back up the reports that spoog posted. Ford only knows how to make cars.
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I have driven the '54 F100, '65 F250 and '57 C100,
    They were owned by friends of mine,
    Toyota, your no legend.
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    OBVIOUSLY you have only read the headlines on Consumer Reports.
    You seem to have MISSED that the Ranger was selected about 9 of the last 10 years as it's "Best Buy" and "Recommended Buy" for compact pickups, not the Tacoma.

    That is the problem with not all but many Tacoma owners, you EGO equals the high price of the vehicle.
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    barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Do a search on the Boston Globe a big ad for Tacoma's $4000 off plus 4.9% financing.That to me sounds like there trying to give em away.personally if I ever had to go foreign I would get an Isuzu Hombre nothing like driving around with my japanese friend plus they have the best rating ever known to mankind.
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    allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Boy, I don't know if personal attacks will get you far in this forum even with the Ford guys. We may be marginally rude to Vince at times here but that's only when we feel like being nice to him and I think he expects it. Anyway, first let me say that I like Ford and that's why my wife owns one. At the time we were shopping for a truck for her in 98, money was a concern so we got the Ford instead of the Toyota. I wouldn't even begin to consider Isuzu or Chevy in the same quality class as Ford. Now I've got a TRD Tacoma. The Ranger does fine off road but the TRD Tacoma is superior in many respects and I appreciate the workmanship. That doesn't take anything away from the Ranger but I feel that the Tacoma is a step up in the quality and design scale that's all. As far as your other nonsense, yes the Tacoma is assembled in the US for tax reasons with Japanese parts. The other garbage about not buying from a country that won't trade with the U.S.? You sound like another very misinformed individual but this isn't a political forum so I can't educate you here.

    cpousnr- I know you have posted favorable things about the Tacoma in the past but I rebuted you because you have been posting some one sided, slightly tainted things lately to support the Ranger. You may have been retaliating against someone but it didn't sit well with me so I responded like I did in Toyota defense. By the way I'll commend Ford for being a Best Buy in CR for 9 out of the 10 last years. That still doesn't mean it's a better truck though but certainly nothing to take lightly if you're considering a small truck. They also must have changed their mind about 90-92 and 95 as they're on the "Used Cars to Avoid" list now. In all fairness though, the Ranger has been rated very well since 97.

    As far as Toyota's "Legend" status: There are many here that daily try to prove that their truck will perform and last just as well as the Toyota so I don't see that "legend" is such a stretch. Like I've said before, it's the small truck standard everyone seems to want to meet or beat.
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    spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Man, you are missing so much.

    The Toyota HIlux is still used in Africa, the Himalaya's, and other places where repair shops are every 800 miles. They are official Remote U.N. vehicles, they are used as MILITARY vehicles with machine gun mounts in the bed.

    The people of Africa and South America only buy three kinds of trucks:

    1. Toyota landcruisers
    2. Toyota pickups
    3. Land Rovers


    You see, when you are 500 miles from the nearest competent mechanic, you can't AFFORD to buy anything less than the best.



    And for you to quote Consumer Reports is LAUGHABLE.

    The Toyota pickup(with the "dot" ratings) is absolutely, incredibly ROCK SOLID.

    I have no problem with C and R giving the Ranger there best buy award. The Ranger is cheap, and a good daily commuter and good for hauling bags of stuff and whatever else you want to toss in the back. It's a nice throw away truck good for about 3-4 years.

    Just drop it back off at the Ford dealer and get that 1.9 percent financing on a new one........
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    spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    "rattles like a diamondback off road."

    - Edmunds.com



    Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. My oh my.

    Once again Cspounser quotes from the wrong source
    and opens a monster can of worms.

    Long term tests and offroad tests are a bit
    different from a 5 hour test to the grocery store
    eh Cspounser? MY oh my. Heres more:



    "Reactions are less complimentary from our
    resident off-road expert who says the Ranger
    "rattles like a diamondback off road." The noise
    comes from where the front and rear doors meet as
    well as from the dash area, which has been
    squeaking more and more as the miles accumulate and
    the temperature drops.

    The cold weather has all but dismantled the
    truck's bedliner. Every major panel now has a wave
    in it and the liner has separated from the bed,
    leaving gaps for water and snow to get trapped
    beneath it. This could eventually lead to rust and
    has us ready to test out the "lifetime warranty"
    that Rugged Liner is supposed to offer on all its
    products. "

    "It seemed extremely whimpy climbing up I-70
    towards the Eisenhower tunnel." "


    "No 4-low gear, creaks and rattles during off-road
    driving, fully warped bedliner (aftermarket
    product), annoying safety feature that makes
    locking the keys in the cab very easy"



    "Unfortunately, as Chris is quick to note, the
    Ranger doesn't have a power driver's seat or
    sufficient padding, and he can barely stand the
    "crappy driver's chair for more than a trip to the
    mall."
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    tmholectmholec Member Posts: 2
    recently I heard that Ford has been found to greenwash (claiming to be environmentally friendly when in fact they are not...) Can anyone give me a lowdown on emissions between the two?
    thanks -
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    hindsitehindsite Member Posts: 590
    Have to wonder if the mechanic is fictitious, since you have made false statements in the past. I have had two Camrys and a Corolla with no problem . . . just like the Taco.
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    tmholectmholec Member Posts: 2
    And please tell me you are joking about this otherwise I am buying a Toyota simply on principle...

    "It's a nice throw away truck good for about
    3-4 years.

    Just drop it back off at the Ford dealer and get
    that 1.9 percent financing on a new one........"
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    eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    I love this forum!
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I have never really had any problems or issues with your posts. Find them reasonably balanced.

    Please do not take some of my tweeking as outright sarcastic comments.

    tmholec:
    Well, I think Ford at least offers flex fuel vehicles and electric vehicles. Think the emissions from those would be very low to non-existent. The initial report on my Ranger is very low in emissions.

    But hey, I think the US is very good in regard to auto emissions control. Travel to such countries as Germany, Great Britan, Poland and Japan, where there are not the the controls we have, try to breath. There are alerts all the time.

    Oh dear, Japan has auto emission problems...Don't they produce some autos and trucks from Toyota over there...could it be that they are NOT envronnmently friendly...

    See, I TWEEK, not lash out at you...
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    cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    There's enough BS flying around in here to build a mountain for everyone to go 4wheelin' on!
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    cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    If I were you, I wouldn't take anyone's advice in here about which truck to choose.


    Basically it boils down to:


    Reliability
    (1) Tacoma - not up to previous toyotas
    (2) Ranger - improving close second to Taco


    Off-Road
    (1) Tacoma - best stock compact offroader
    (2) Ranger - good offroader when equipped right


    On-Road
    (?) Tacoma - stiff ride, quicker perf #'s
    (?) Ranger - variable ride, faster in '01


    Ergonomics
    (1) Ranger - best interiors in class
    (2) Tacoma - spartan, yet functional


    Value
    (1) Ranger - most bang for the buck
    (2) Tacoma - worth an extra 5K????


    Horsepower
    (1) Tacoma - 190hp
    (2) Ranger - 160hp, increases to 205 in '01


    Torque
    (1) Ranger - 225ft/lbs, increases to 245 in '01
    (2) Tacoma - 220ft/lbs peaks at higher rpm


    Four Cylinder Models
    (1) Tacoma
    (2) Ranger - 2.5 is terrible, improved in '01


    Resale
    (?) Tacoma - around same % of sale price
    (?) Ranger - around same % of sale price


    Environmental Friendliness :oD
    (1) Ranger - 2.5 lowest in class, also electrics
    (2) Tacoma


    Options
    (1) Ranger - lots to choose from
    (2) Tacoma - limited by packages


    Legendary???
    Tacoma - No
    Ranger - No


    BS Factor from truck owners
    (?) Too close to call!
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    allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    I'll vote for Vince and his invisible Toyota mechanic friends for the highest BS factor on the Ford side. I kind of know who you gentlemen will vote for on the Toyota side.
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    spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    All i have done, time and time again is back up my statements with facts. I have backed up my claims eloquently with the NHSTA recall,defect, and TSB site, backed up my claims in HEAD TO HEAD Ranger Tacoma comparison tests from Four Wheeler and Petersons, and other sources.

    Cspounse has quoted Consumer Reports and Edmunds, only to have it backfire. I provide dthe articles and the quotes from HIS OWN sources.

    The problems with the long term Ranger(only 28k miles) are parallel with the findings at the NHSTA.


    Sure, I may get out of hand sometimes, but my oboxious behaviour is ALWAYS, ALWAYS backed up by hard data.
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    spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Excellent link hindsite. That site gives us good feedback on consumer troubles with the trucks.

    I read the Ranger Epinions, and then the Tacoma Epinions. What a difference. All those problems?
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I have used his posts to present data that is favorable to the Ranger or refutes his claims on the Tacoma. So he is now trying the tactic.

    Well you forgot a few Edmunds comments from the Long Term test:

    SEP 98: It’s no accident that the Ranger is the best-selling compact truck on the market. It drives, hauls, and looks like a truck, which is exactly what most truck people want. We have too many cream puffs working here…Additional remarks related to the well-designed interior. Everyone agrees that the Ranger has great ergonomics with easy to reach radio controls and a comfortable front seat.
    Only a few complaints … "it rides like a truck" whiners… upset that the truck’s speed-limiter kicks in at "only 90 mph." Finally, some employees wish it had a bigger cargo area.

    OCT 98: One of the truck's best features is its ability to carry young infants safely…the Ranger is proving to be a favorite among Edmunds staffers.”

    NOV 98: its attractive looks and smooth highway ride… The four-door design continues to please staffers”

    DEC 98: “The wipers have an awesome range of speed

    JAN 99: “ impressed by the truck's styling, powerful engine, responsive steering and interior layout…

    FEB: 99: gave it a glowing review. Specific likes were the powerful engine and raised driving perspective. The higher seating position inspired confidence with its increased view of the road, yet the truck still offered easy entry and egress. The cargo bed proved capable of hauling more than just frostbitten humans…

    MAR 99: “…and excellent sound system… CD player and four-speaker system offered impressive musical imaging and separation while reception of distant AM/FM stations was better than expected… Both the center console and door-mounted armrests are ideally located for arm support, and the climate controls are easy to use, rapidly heating or cooling the truck's interior.”

    APR 99: on its good looks and pleasant driving characteristics. The raised driving perspective and responsive automatic transmission were given special mention… stereo's sound quality is superb and the air conditioning/heating system can quickly cool or warm the cab”\

    JUN 99: :impressed by the quality of sound coming from the Ranger's AM/FM/CD player and the use of high-grade materials on the seats, door panels and dash. In his words, "These standards are not matched by any other small pickup I've driven…this compact Ford has plenty to offer in terms of looks, comfort, quality and value.”

    JUL 98: Its tight turning radius made U-turns a snap and its raised perspective allowed for confident traffic maneuvers… Climate control continues to be a Ranger strong suit”

    AUG 98: “commented on the Ranger's good looks. At 1 year old, the truck still wins rave reviews for its stylish appearance…

    SEP 98: “many of us here at Edmunds.com feel that the Ranger is the crème de la crème. In fact, it gets our nod for best 2000 compact pickup…The mating of the five-speed automatic transmission and engine drew praise this month”

    OCT 98: “The Ranger effortlessly navigates parking lots and darts easily through traffic… Oft-used controls are simple to operate for the most part. All praised the great-sounding stereo again”

    NOV 98: Andy Chase favors the Ranger over our long-term Jeep Grand Cherokee, GMC Sierra and Honda Odyssey:

    DEC 98: “…thanked the Ford folks for the side window defogger "coyly positioned on the top of the dashboard" that did its job in a jiffy. Also noted was the heater that was quick to warm up the cabin on chilly mornings… V6 engine … its torque was still appreciated”

    JAN 00: “…fun to drive, handling pretty well for something with such a high center of gravity. He also appreciated the confidence-inspiring brakes, and found the Ranger cruises smoothly at freeway speeds.”

    FEB 00:”…liked the twin rear doors that open for easy access to the rear jump seats. He also enjoyed the beefy, low-end torque the perky V6 offers… Hey, the girls like it!”

    MAR 00: “…our truck was never at a loss for traction -- no matter what Mother Nature threw at us.”
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    mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    Why is it when Toyota offers a rebate and good financing it is a means of getting rid of stock but for any other manufacturer it is just another reason the product is better?

    How can the Izuzu Hombre have the best rating known to mankind and the s-10 have one of the worst?
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    anonymousanonymous Member Posts: 314
    To answer your question, the same reason spoog heeps praise on Tacoma posts from Epinions, but ridicules Ranger owners for posting from there.

    BTW, I think that rebate is great. Have seen a significant REDUCTION in the overall price of the Tacoma, which is good.

    But, to keep my Ranger hat on, does that mean either the quality was cut on the vehicle to reflect the lower price or was it overpriced to begin with? I mean I am seeing reductions of thousands of dollars over an equal vehicle from just 6-12 months ago.

    For Ford to keep up, they will have to reduce price. Hmmmm note to self to check the 2002 Ranger prices. . .
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    mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    Well there are no specials like that in my area, so it must be a dealer specific or regional toyota special. So I guess someone shopping for a Tacoma is in a bit of a conundrum. Either go where there is no special, pay more, and get a quality Tacoma or pay less and get the lower quality. Just Kidding
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    40ounces40ounces Member Posts: 10
    I know I will get some interesting answers here. I am trading my Rodeo in for a Ranger/Mazda 3000 (same thing, right?), a Tacoma, or a Frontier. It looks like the Frontier has a stronger engine in the 4, so I would have to go with a V6 and spend more money on the Ford. Let the advice fly.
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    anonymousanonymous Member Posts: 314
    instead of the 4.0 liter or 4.0 overhead cam engine of the 2001 Ranger?
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    mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    I think I can say something that most everyone in here will agree with. Do not get an S-10 or Sonoma.
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Pay less, get a fine running vehicle, capable of most anything.
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Earning on Epinions.com


    There are two main ways to earn money for writing opinions at Epinions.com.
    The Eroyalties Program consists of the base program (Eroyalties "earnings" or "credits"), and Income Share bonuses.

    The Base Eroyalties Program
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    After signing on as a member, you earn Eroyalties credits each time a member reads the full text of your opinion. Rates range from one to three cents ($0.01 to $0.03) per qualified page view. The current rates break down this way:

    $1 for every 100 member visits to your Arts & Entertainment, Restaurant, Video Game, Web Service, Park, Pet or Enterprise
    Hardware opinions.

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    $3 per 100 member visits for all other opinions.
    Although rates may change at any time, changes affect only what you earn in the future--not the Eroyalties credits you have already earned.

    A penny a page view may seem like a tiny amount, but many members may read your opinions. You begin to earn Eroyalties credits the moment you submit an opinion. When you have at least $10, you can redeem your earnings by going to your member profile page and clicking the Redeem
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    Note: You must be signed up for the Eroyalties Program to redeem your credits. If you are not enrolled, but wish to be, select Edit Your Account from your member profile. The Income Share Program
    In addition to base Eroyalties earnings, Epinions distributes Income Share bonuses. Periodically, Epinions deposits an Income Share bonus in each
    author's account based on how often those opinions are used to make decisions.
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    40ounces40ounces Member Posts: 10
    Please give me more info on this.
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    cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    The new for '01 SOHC 4L V6 produces 205hp and 235ft/lbs of torque. It replaces the current OHV 4L making 160hp and 225ft/lbs of torque.

    FYI, Nissan is supercharging the 3.3L V6 in '01 for around 210hp and 240ft/lbs.

    Ford is also replacing the current gutless 2.5L I4 rated at 119hp with a new 2.3L I4 rated at 134hp. Maybe a viable Ford 4cylinder??? Also, a possibility of a new I5 (probably replacing the aging Vulcan 3L) looks as if it may surface in '02.

    GM is replacing their entire line of engines with an I6, I5, and I4. Their top engine is a 4.5L I6 making 250hp.

    The clones (Mazda B-Series, and Isuzu Hombre) will follow suit with their near-twins.

    Toyota's engine offerings remain unchanged for '01 (or the near future as far as we can tell).
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Broke the skid plate?!? Thought this was superior steel, far superior to the Ranger. Doubt that!

    http://www.epinions.com/auto-review-2A33-43FDBD-388DD5DE-bd3

    "I have a friend that has a Toyota Tacoma(1999) and he went
    off-ridding with it and it messed up his skid plate. All he did was hit a
    little stump going about 15 MPH and the skid plate fell off. He had to go through a lot of trouble to get the thing fixed. It cost him about $300 for a Toyota made skid plate. And after this happened, he has been afraid to take if through ruff areas. So overall, I say this is not the best off-roading truck."

    Afraid to go through the ruff (think he ment "rough", thought them toyota owners were suppose to be better educated)areas. "....not the best off-roading truck...".

    LOL!
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    "Excellent link hindsite. That site gives us good
    feedback on consumer troubles with the trucks.

    I read the Ranger Epinions, and then the Tacoma
    Epinions. What a difference. All those problems?"

    You TRASHED Epinions when Ranger posts were listed a few months back. But now the opinions are good because you like what they said about Tacoma's?

    Like the Epinions I found about Tacoma?

    You are SOOOO inconsistant spoog.

    Well as far as I am concerned, they are, well opinions.
    You get paid for the opinions. Make em splashier, get more people to read em, you get more money.
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    cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Sorry, dont know what got into me. Just playing spoog for a while....drank too much ice tea, yeah thats right, too much iced tea. . .
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    40ounces40ounces Member Posts: 10
    Also, what will the MPG be like on it? Which is the best Ranger, Tacoma or Frontier? It looks like the Frontier is not good in crash tests.
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    mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    Neither the Previa nor the Sienna (current model van) ever had the 3.4L in it. The Previa offered a 2.4L and a supercharged 2.4L 4 cylinder and the Sienna has the 3.0L. One thing I have learned about posting things in here is not to say anything without first confirming it. That is also what happens when you make references to sources you are currently trying to discredit(epinions).

    I dare anyone to drive into a tree stump at 15 mph in 4wd. Unless you have a bulletproof aftermarket skid plate, you will damage your vehichle. Isn't that what the skid plate is for in the first place? To be a part that can be replaced if damaged, to sacrifice itself for the rest of the underside. That is like blaming your mudflaps for getting muddy or your bedliner for getting scratched up.
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    spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    BWahahahahahah! Wrong again!! lol!!

    Man, you are too much. First the JD long term Ford/mazda mistake, and now this.

    Next time you better check some real sources instead of relying on some comments from some stoned consumer from Epinions.
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    spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    "Ranger problems don't bode well for long term
    durability"

    -Edmunds.com


    "The worst aspect about driving the Ranger, aside
    from sitting in the back seats or accidentally
    hitting the overdrive switch, is the amount of
    noise it makes from various locations. The rear
    springs squeak, the drivetrain clunks, and a
    noticeable whistle emanates from the roof area
    above the driver's side doors. Our guess is that
    the quad-cab design has sacrificed a bit of body
    rigidity, which has created the poor seal in the
    door area. None of these problems are extremely
    troubling when viewed separately, but when you add
    them up it doesn't bode well for long-term
    durability. "



    "Problems: Continued noises from the drivetrain
    and suspension, and a new air leak around the
    driver's side doors"



    "Unfortunately, squeaks now plague our Ranger, the
    most noticeable of which coming from the rear
    suspension. We're not carrying any old boxsprings
    in the bed, but it sure sounds like it. One staffer
    found more than mice noises to gripe about, "I
    don't know if it is the heavy-duty suspension or
    what, but since I've been in the Ranger, the
    commute down Santa Monica Boulevard, an admittedly
    bad street, feels like an off-road adventure in the
    Canadian Yukon"
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    cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I think the '01 Ranger is due out late summer, probably September (possibly some early arrivals in August).

    MPG on the SOHC 4L should be about the same as the OHV 4L. Milage also varies a big amount depending on the type of truck; 4x4 vs. 4x2, auto vs. manual, weight, and rear end selection.

    What do you mean by best? Crash test ratings or something else?
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    40ounces40ounces Member Posts: 10
    I know the Ranger/Mazda seem to be the best as far as safety. The Frontier gets the best mileage with the highest HP in a 4 cyl. From what I have read, it seems the Ranger/Mazda gets the best overall ratings. They also have good deals going in Atlanta. One place has the any Mazda $200 under invoice, plus 1700 cash back. I have seen good deals on Rangers also and just wanted to see points of view on which truck is the best overall. I do not see much on the Tacoma.
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    barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    I appreciate your input on Tacoma vs Ranger and think your last post was a reasonable response,I don't own a Ranger I do own an F250 bit I am very interested in the new Ranger coming out this Sept because I had one a few years a go and it was a great truck,As far as the labor issues I am a I.B.E.W electrician and read about many americans losing thier jobs overseas,There is a huge trade deficit with Japan and Japan will not trade back with the US and that does create lost jobs for american people,It probably doesn't matter to most people but it does matter to me.
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    barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    The new ranger will be out in Sept,but there will also be a new chevy S-10 4 door,gmc sonoma and a Tacoma double cab.The pickup truck market has gotten so competive lately there is so much to choose from.I also read that the Saturn company will be making a compact pickup
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    hindsitehindsite Member Posts: 590
    I would go with the Frontier or the Tacoma.
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    allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Forgive me if it appeared that I was taking down to you, or simply being a jerk about Japan. If you have really looked into the matter and feel that way that's one thing, but those that haven't taken the time to do so and believe everything they're told set me off sometimes. Anyway, at one time I believed all the hype about Japan and our trade deficit etc. until I took the time to really look into it. First, Japan buys more U.S. goods than most of the world aside from England. I used to hear that Japan was buying up property in Calif. etc. to take over the U.S. and found that England, once again, owned twice as much as Japan. I found it interesting that there isn't any movement against England. A lot of the anti-Japan hype comes from the American Autoworkers that claim that Japan won't buy American cars. I talked to some Japanese businessmen and learned a whole different side to the story. First you have to realize that Japan's cities are old and the streets are extremely narrow. In much of Japan you aren't allowed to own a car unless you can prove that you have a parking place because space is very limited. The American cars in the past were too big to be practical in Japan and still are , on average, bigger than the typical car in Japan. To top that off, until about 1994, we were trying to sell cars equipped the same as here in the U.S. which means that the steering wheel is on the wrong side!! Sounds stupid but it's true. In approx. 1994 we started shipping smaller, modified vehicles to Japan and sales have been going up. If we didn't have Japan buying food, military equipt., clothing, etc., our economy wouldn't be doing half as well. If we produce as good a product as they have available there it will sell there. Don't believe everything the Union leaders say without looking into the facts. There are some gray areas with certain products but quite a few of our trade problems with places like Japan are caused by our own stupidity. Let me also add that I'm not trying to trash the Unions either. It's just all too common that fear of losing jobs causes many to believe the people that stretch the truth and the Unions, trying to protect their members, may not fully investigate all of their information. I could go on but this isn't a political forum and I guess you know how I feel.
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    hindsitehindsite Member Posts: 590
    I was not talking about special order but gouging to line their pockets at Ford dealers. Since, That Mazda B4000 4x4 fully loaded was selling over in my area nearly 2 years ago or so at $21K.

    BTW Do you have a Spoog thing? Why is everytime that you address me in your post you manage to include Spoog in the topic.
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    hindsitehindsite Member Posts: 590
    "It seems that Ford Motor Company has trouble hitting their mark when it comes to their slogan "Quality is Job 1". The number of recalls per vehicle and overall reliability ratings appear to be moving in the wrong direction.

    Ford owners everywhere are reluctant to convey confidence and satisfaction when discussing their car with friends, family and coworkers as of late. In fact, out of 32 car manufacturers worldwide, Ford has dropped to 28th place for overall customer satisfaction. One customer for every 400 vehicles sold is involved in an unresolved claim, meaning either there is no known repair for a problem they are experiencing, or they have become so frustrated that they wish to have their car bought back.

    Saturn, by comparison, has one unresolved claim for every 14,000 vehicles sold. Despite these facts, Ford continues to be one of the largest car
    companies in the world. This can only mean that their engineers and product designers are second to none. To put it plainly, Ford makes several very appealing cars. Those responsible for the new and redesigned Fords that hit the showroom floors really have their finger on the pulse of the car buying public.

    Since consumers often head straight for the Ford dealership when shopping for a car, then how is it possible that the customer satisfaction
    index continues to suffer? People buy cars to suit, or sometimes create their personality. The first symptom of the male mid-life crisis is the desire to get behind the wheel of a sports car. People nearly have love affairs with their cars, giving them names, garages at night, hand waxes on the weekends, and aftermarket accessories.

    I have never known anyone to name a television, a pair of shoes, or even a home for that matter. Taking into account the emotion between a car
    and its owner, the auto industry has carved its own niche in the business world.

    Those who hold high office at Ford Motor Company are excellent businessmen. Men like Jac Nassar, and Carl Bergman were brought in for their expertise in running big businesses. This is exactly the problem, because the auto industry is unique in the business world. Businessmen look at facts and figures much differently than what a "car person" would.

    Someone who understands what a car means to a person is interested in selling a quality car for a reasonable price. A car person knows that a happy customer will return later to purchase another vehicle. They will use parts and assembly processes that will ensure a balance of liability,
    performance, ergonomics, safety, and overall value.

    A businessman, on the other hand, is inclined to ignore the big picture and look at today's facts. Once the design becomes a finished product and the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) is determined, every cost cutting measure conceivable will be taken to increase the profit.

    Replacing steel parts with aluminum and aluminum parts with plastic does indeed reduce vehicle weight and manufacturing cost. In moderation, the consequences are negligible, but when these steps are taken into practice on every part of the car, the whole vehicle suffers.

    Car people are embarrassed when their product needs warranty repairs. They are willing to pay a fair price to the dealer for satisfying their
    customer. Businessmen look at what warranty repairs cost them and find another way around it.

    Ford, rather than justify the extra revenue required to improve the quality of their parts, has chosen another route. After studying which repairs are the most common, they looked to Carl Bergman, Head of Parts and Service for the answer. His decision was to slash the warranty labor standards across the board, forcing the dealerships to help bear the burden.

    Service staff and technicians have watched helplessly as their monthly incomes have slowly decreased. The result was a $70 million savings in warranty costs last year alone. Carl Bergman insisted that technicians are grossly overpaid. For his efforts, Mr. Bergman collected a $16 million bonus.

    Unfortunately, these business practices do not translate well to the automotive world. Cutting corners in manufacturing procedures and warranty
    repairs only serves to aggravate the customer satisfaction problem. Rather than focus on one problem at a time, those who are running Ford Motor Company need to take a long hard look at the big picture. The public has definitely shown an unmatched level of enthusiasm for Ford's product line.

    Sacrificing a few hundred dollars per vehicle at the factory will not only save thousands in warranty repairs, but will restore the pride of ownership that has been lacking lately in those who drive Fords. I am persuaded that Mr. Nassar, Mr. Bergman and the rest would be amazed at how thinking like "car people" could revolutionize the entire company."

    Keep an eye out for part II . . . .
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