Toyota Sienna Sliding Door Problems

vulcan4vulcan4 Member Posts: 12
edited July 2016 in Toyota
I have a 2004 Sienna, I live in the northeast.
When it snows, sleets freezing rain the sliding doors stick. My kids can not get in the car, so they climb over the leather seats with their snowy shoes to get to the back seats.
The worst part is they CAN'T get out of the sliding doors becase they are frozen shut.
it's scarey!
Has anyone else had this problem?


  • lsaclsac Member Posts: 22
    Last week, my 98 Sienna LE (80808 mi) passenger side sliding door power door lock failed. I took the unit out, did some testing. Door lock module was out. Opened it up, took out motor, cleaned it and put it back on. It is working just like new. Also, the plastic sliding door handle broke 3 times, twice on passenger side, once one driver side. Now, I made 2 metal handles, these handles should outlast the vehicle itself.
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    The cable snapped and plastic pieces flew all over hitting my wife in the face.
    The cable appears to have rusted out. The plastic pulley shattered. Toyotas extended warranty does not cover this.
    My van was build June 20, 2003 making it just over 3 yrs old. It will cost $2,000 to fix!
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    The lower spot weld on the plate that secures the left door check (the strap the holds the door from opening to far) has broke. Toytota will not warranty this.The check strap cushion has also failed.This part is made by Aisin Denso. My dealer has told me of 5 such failures. He replaced the door in each case. These failures are on the first vans off the line. Apparantly they resolved this problem in July 04 my van was built June 03 when they first went into production. Has anyone else had such a failure and did Toyota cover it?
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    I have experienced a similar problem. I sprayed the door gasget(s) with a silicone lubricant. This displaces the moisture on the gasgets and prevents the door to be frozen shut. All doors have frozen shut on me.

  • sctroacerysctroacery Member Posts: 1
    2005 toyota sienna xle:The sliding door sensors do not recognize obstacles. Today the door shut on my 6 y/o daughters face. has anyone had these issues?
  • mainer1mainer1 Member Posts: 1
    My 2001 Toyota Sienna allows rain, mud and dirt under the doors to accumulate inside the closed doors, although not in the passenger compartment. It already is rusting the door suspension mechanism and leaves sand and dirt around the inner door frame. Does anyone else with a 2001 have this problem? Would mud flaps help, running boards or a makeshift extra gasket? Toyota dealers claim to have no complaints, but their mechanics acknowledge a problem, but have no ideas or solutions.
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    Just an up date to my sliding door closure failure.
    The ECP "Extended Care Program" covered the repair of my sliding door. The power doors and tail gate motors are not listed in the ECP plan I bought but they agreed to cover it. I really think this was an oversite not to include these motors as they did not have power doors on any previous model. Toyota would not admit this. I would ensure you have your doors checked thoroughly while under warranty. I would suggest they need to be well lubed to prevent corrosion and checked to ensure the bolts are tight. After mine failed I found alot of corrosion, the cable is galvanized with a plastic coating that had cracked, and the main door bracket bolts were loose.
  • tienchiehtienchieh Member Posts: 2
    Our 04 Sienna just experienced the exact problem you had. The spod weld on the plate that secures the left door check failed!
    I took to the dealer and they won't fix it under warrenty. I'm just wondering how did you resolve this issue? I'm thinking to file a complaint to the consumer's group, and may be this will call their attention?
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    Toyota did not repair mine. I ended up having a body shop repair it. They said the weld had let go and the whole plate was cracked from top to bottom. I think this failure has occurred quite a few times. Toyota Canada will not warranty this failure. Hopefully you will have better luck. My dealer, ToyotaTown in London Ontario told me he had 5 fail including his courtesy van but still Toyota will not warranty. I have never heard of spot welds failing on a vehicle let alone a new one. For this to happen the spot welder was not set up properly. I am totally disappointed on how Toyota has not stood behind their vehicle quality. I can now relate to all the news articles about decreasing quality on Toyota vehicles. I will never buy a vehicle the first year in production even if it is a Toyota as they have proven to me that they cant make them right the first time and when they fail, they wont stand behind it. Honestly, I had better quality on my 1992 Dodge Caravan
  • tienchiehtienchieh Member Posts: 2
    Our dealer here in the States will not honor this either. It's an uphill battle. Like you said, it's amazing how Toyota's quality went down hill along with their customer's services.
  • getemmygetemmy Member Posts: 1
    I also have a 2004 Sienna and have had problems with the sliding doors sticking right from the start. I live in Ontario, Canada, and guess what? It gets cold here. Any time it remotely gets cold, I cannot open them. I have had it into the Toyota Dealership three times and hopefully the last time they fixed it (it has been warm since then so I have not been able to test them). The dealership kept it for three days. I'm not even sure what the fix was. I asked if there had been other similar problems reported and the service manager told me there had been. I told him that if you can't even get your passengers into your vehicle, you may as well take the tires off too. I was really angry! I chose Toyota for a reason and other than the doors not opening, I love the vehicle. I know there was a recall on this vehicle to replace the weatherstripping in the doors; however, that did not seem to help mine. I'll let you know during our next cold spell if the fix worked. Let's hope or Toyota Canada is going to have one unhappy customer calling in!
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    I have had this problem numerous times. I have sprayed the seal with silicone but it still stuck during the next cold spell. It seems like moisture gets on the seal and then freezes the door shut. I have not taken it to the dealer as I am not impressed with their troubleshooting abilities.
    I reapplied the silicone but it hasnt been cold enough to see if this fixed it. If this does not work I will look for a spray that has teflon in it.
    I really wonder how much cold weather testing Toyota did on this vehicle. Have you noticed how the plastic trim on the front doors rattle when you close them when its cold out? Keep an eye on your power doors,(if you have them) the cable will corode, crack and then break, the 2 bolts come loose and my dealer never checked them, even though I have it serviced regularily.
  • vulcan4vulcan4 Member Posts: 12
    If you plan on claiming lemon law make sure you you have documentation for at least 3 repair visits, preferably 5-6 visits to make case. I had to give a deposition in my case. I only had records for 2 visits and wasn't able to get much from lemon law/ Toyota.
    My problem was they " fixed" it but the weather was warm so I could not tell if it has been fixed. I know they replace my door seals and a cover in the bottom inside where the door slides.
    Yea I bought a Toyota because of there reliability, only to find out the past few years they gone down hill. I let you know how I make out this winter.
  • paedomorphpaedomorph Member Posts: 2
    We too have an 04 Sienna with broken welds on the door. At first I thought it was the door check that was making all of the noise, but upon further inspection (after having replaced the door check) I found that poor welds had broken. Anyone have a solution on repairs? Palmers' Airport Toyota Scion Tundra Tacoma Sequoia Land Cruiser Highlander FJ Cruiser Mobile Alabama
  • jrmacjrmac Member Posts: 5
    We too had a problem with our '04 Sienna's door check weld. We had the extended warranty and it was covered.
    Fortunately, our mechanic caught the tick noise and brought this to our attention. They told us in some cases the whole door has to be replaced, but we were fortunate that ours was caught early.
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    My extended warranty would not cover this. Could you provide me with a dealer's name and phone number that did this repair. I had mine welded but it has failed again. I would like to ask Toyota why they are in consistent in applying the extended warranty coverage.

  • jrmacjrmac Member Posts: 5
    It was done at Schaumburg Toyota in Schaumburg, IL. It was sent out to their body shop and done there.
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    Great, Thanks for the info. I will let you know how I make out.
  • vulcan4vulcan4 Member Posts: 12
    My doors stuck again, it was about 28 degrees, I brought my van in and the dealer witness the problem and "fixed it". 3 weeks later they stuck again. I called dealer and they said they could not do any thing, I called corporate in California and explain how my kids can not get in or out of the van. I said what would happen if my kid starts to choke on something and I can get to him because I can't open the door. They said they can not do anything, and that it weather related.

    They could care less about safety!
  • dsylvia1dsylvia1 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2004 Toyota Sienna LE without power sliding doors. I would like to add them. I called our local Toyota dealer and they said they could not do this. Has anyone ever researching converting manual doors to power sliding doors on a 2004 Toyota Sienna LE?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I imagine it's possible but it would likely be prohibitively expensive. Why not trade up for a CPO used model with that feature (and a power lift gate while you're at it). I bet it'd be much cheaper.
  • taxesquiretaxesquire Member Posts: 681
    I agree with ataxearia's reply about the expense likely being prohibitive.

    Someone asked about this on either this board or another Sienna board. I suggest you search for this posting and try to contact that forum member to see if he/she made any headway.
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    I agree it would costs to much. I have an LE and the passenger power door actuator failed. Luckily it was covered by my extended warranty. It cost $2,000 just to replace the motor and cable. Please note the extended warranties sold in Canada make no mention of power doors (tail gates or rear sliders). Toyota Canada covered this expense thankfully.
  • mbpgawestmbpgawest Member Posts: 1
    I would urge ALL who have had any trouble with the welds on drivers door to call "Toyota Consumer Affairs" and let them know about it. Even if it was taken care of under warranty. The phone number is 800-331-4331
    I have a 2004 Sienna XLE Limited that is 2 months and 4,000 miles out of warranty. Local dealer wanted to split the cost of the repair, I called another dealer and they said bring it and and it will be taken care off.
    All of us who spend $30-40,000 on a nice van should be taken seriously and Toyota needs to hear from ALL of us.
    There is another web forum that has more information on this here is a link to it:

    PLEASE MAKE THE CALL, IT ONLY TAKES A COUPLE MINUTES 800-331-4331. Let them know of the problem. Thank you for your time.
  • avancleveavancleve Member Posts: 1
    Don't bother.....the power doors are famous for not working after a short while. My left side door always had a sticking problem, now it does not close unless you disable the power doors.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No problems here. It's my favorite feature by far, too. The fact that there are only 27 posts in this entire thread says something.
  • whitswhits Member Posts: 1
    I am having the same problem with the door weld in 04 sienna. I agree, toyota needs to hear from all of us! Please call.

    My dealer has offered good will assistance to reduce the cost of replacement from $1,900 to $200-$400 as long as I do 60,000 mile extended service. I don't think I should have to pay-- this is a design or manufacturing problem for which Toyota should be responsible.

    Call 1-800-331-4331 also go to and read all the complaints there. Add yours.
  • stomprocketstomprocket Member Posts: 15
    Count me in on the drivers door defect. The weld on the drivers door has given way and makes an aweful noise. My van hit 36 months last month :(

    I have an appointment tomorrow with the dealer. I was told they would cover half of the cost... this is unacceptable for a XLE Limited that has never been in an accident and should be covered as others are experiencing the same problems. Most people don't use message boards and for each person that posts... I'm sure it represents many others who do not!

    Call the number and let Toyota know this is unacceptable for any vehicle and especially a Toyota.

    I am have also had it in for a rattle in the driver side sliding door several times since new. It still rattles. Moreover the tailgate does not open fully on it's own as the shocks (black extenders) can't push it open. I am getting a little nervous that this van may continue to have door problems... This is disappointing since the van in all other aspects has been very good.
  • hoodlum2hoodlum2 Member Posts: 6
    We had our driver door replaced in 2005 due to this problem (at 40k). Now it has happened again with our new door (85k). I am not sure if it will be covered under warranty this time. When I spoke with the body shop last month they mentioned they are replacing 7 Sienna doors a week now! Every couple of weeks they return the doors back to Toyota. The week before I visited them last month they just returned 35 doors back to Toyota. It you extrapulate this across the country this must be effecting thousands of Sienna's and now some '06 models have had the problem so it seems Toyota has not been able to fix this design issue.

    I am surprised that Toyota has been able to keep this under wrap. But now that people will be out of warranty and the repair costs no longer covered, I expect to hear more about this. Here is a link to a 130+ post thread that I started 2 years ago. The first post includes the latest TSB from Toyota.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Most people don't use message boards and for each person that posts... I'm sure it represents many others who do not!

    Well, maybe not... Time will tell for sure. Usually when people are experiencing problems like this one, that is when they start looking for a place to voice their "concerns." If it was a more widespread problem, you can bet the anti-Toyota folks in the world (probably most of the GM and Ford fan base, and some Honda folks, too) would make sure it received plenty of press coverage. There are lots of people who would love to see Toyota's reputation for quality get soaked over something like this.
  • stomprocketstomprocket Member Posts: 15
    The thread at is getting longer by the day. There is also a website up now for Sienna owners to reference and take some action to get Toyota to address this issue.

    Good luck to all and I hope it gets recalled soon!
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    Thanks to Hoodlum2 for the lead to
    Based on what I learned there I e-mailed my dealer again. I had reported the noisy check strap problem in May 05.The warranty expired and he would not fix it and Toyota Canada would not fix it as well. That is until today. I was just advised that Toyota Canada is fixing this problem under warranty on vehicles under 60 months old.
    Maybe the video on U tube had something to do with Toyota's change of mind.
    I have made an appointment with the dealer to have the door repaired.

    Thanks again
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Keep us posted on how the repairs come along. Good luck.
  • stomprocketstomprocket Member Posts: 15
    That sounds like good news. Hopefully it will be extended in the US as well.

    I would encourage everyone to keep the pressure on Toyota for your repair. And if your car is under warranty, take it to the dealer to have the door checked.
  • mw033410mw033410 Member Posts: 5
    I have the door weld defect on my 04 XLE and now the passenger side door will not open - I was told by the dealer Toyota would go 50/50 on the door cost of about $2,200. This is not wear and tear - this is a manufacturing defect. I currently own three additional Toyotas and have had no problems. My family has 8 additional Toyotas currently owned. This is not a typical Toyota. I am shopping for a Honda hybrid this week and next week I am taking the Sienna to a body shop - having it repaired and trading it in for an Odessey. Don't buy the Sienna.
  • hause7hause7 Member Posts: 153
    Good luck on the Odyssey, my neighbor just traded in his 06 Odyssey Touring for an 08 Sienna, his odyssey was in the shop for many of things including a transmission failure that left his wife and son stranded on highway 12 near my house. The other problems he had was power steering problem, Vacume house problem, and some problems with the liftgate not opening. I have had no issues with my 04 Sienna Limited AWd with over 65,000 miles on it.
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    Just an update on my Failed Spot Weld Drivers door. I successfully had the door replaced this past week by Toyota Canada at no cost to me. I had the broken door fixed once by a local body shop but it failed again. Toyota ended up replacing the whole metal door. I am glad Toyota finally recognized it was their responsibility to fix this as it was a manufacturing defect. The bad thing is I am truly disappointed in this whole experience. I have a totally different view of Toyota then when I bought the van. I was convinced Toyota treated their customers better then this but have learned otherwise.
  • tillsonburgtillsonburg Member Posts: 29
    If anyone has had the cable motor assembly fail on their powered slider doors make sure the dealer addresses the root cause of the problem. Mine failed and they replaced the cable/motor assembly. 10 months later it failed again and now I am paying to replace the failed latches. The reason it failed is because one of the 2 latches fails to release the door and the door tries to cycle open or close. My door started to open and/or close intermittently. It turns out that the solenoid on theses latches stick preventing the door to open or close. The latch that holds the door open cost me $252 to replace. The door handle latch assembly costs $700 plus installation labor. I am surprised these latches are not interlocked to prevent the door from cycling before they release. This is important because once your warranty expires, even though you've had problems or reported problems about it, Toyota won't fix it at their costs.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just get an extended warranty with that Odyssey, especially the more options you get with it.

    Consumer Reports rates the Sienna higher overall in reliability. Good luck.
  • wood1996wood1996 Member Posts: 4
    We've had the same problem. Paid over $800 to have both the front and rear latches replaced. Now we are having the same problem three months later. This is a sefety issue Toyota needs to address. If there was an accident and kids could not get out of the car because the door latch won't release. Our warranty had just expired - 3 yrs, 2 months only 24,000 miles. Our dealership split the cost with us, but Toyota should have paid for repairs since it is a safety issue!!!! Now we have to get it fixed again.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Doesn't the door allow for manual opening? On my XLE Limited there are switches under the dash for disabling the power doors, which allow you to open them in completely manual mode, as if there was no power. Recently my wife left the doors open with lights on and forgot about it, so there was not enough power to open the doors and the system simply disengaged, as if the doors were completely manual. I thought it was pretty smart. The rear tailgate, however, was a different story. The latch back there is completely electronic, so no power = no open. Our 2004 Odyssey did not allow you open the doors manually, at least not without really abusing the door. You pretty much had to pull against the motor and cable assembly that normally opens it, and it felt like you were abusing it (we had to do it a couple different times).
  • kinchicagolandkinchicagoland Member Posts: 10
    I have the same problem with both of the sliding doors in my sienna minivan. They both froze yesterday due to snow. My children, with their snowy boots, have to climb over the front seats to get to the back. Even after driving around for 45 minutes with the front and rear heat on full blast, the doors would not open. When I called my local Skokie, IL, Toyota dealer, he told me the problem is I live in Chicago. I guess that means Toyota should only sell to the sunbelt states.

    This has been a progressive problem since the first year we bought this '04. At first only the non-power door side would freeze shut, but now the power side freezes shut too. It seems to happen more readily as well. I bourght my minivan to the dealer at least twice. They applied generous amount of ? lubricant to the edges where the door slides, but this has not helped.

    Also, once the door freezes shut and I try to open it , the door must release enough so that the sensor registers it as open. This translates into the open door alarm going off all the tiem as well as the interior lights going on and off depending whether I goup or down slight inclines. Talk about distracting for the driver.

    Let me know if you know how to fix this problem or I will have to move to Florida.
  • vulcan4vulcan4 Member Posts: 12
    My Toyota replaced the door seals 4-5 times. What a hassle when doors freeze shut, my kids have to climb over the leather seats. I afraid if they should choke on candy I won't be able to get to them in time. I went to far to contact Toyota Corporate overseas to help me, but they passed me to Toyota Corporate in California. She tolds me it was weather related, I said no Kidding! and she/ Toyota could not help me OUT! I asked them what do I have to do to get some action? Contact Fox 5 News? national Highway safety association? I was told by her do whatever I want. So I will be sent mass emailing to Major TV networks and all my friends about how Toyota has no concern for children safety.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280

    Hold on - This is a problem that affects ALL vehicles and is a consequence of leaving a vehicle parked outside during freezing weather. The fact that they are sliding doors exacerbates the problem, because there is more contact area and it is much harder to slide a frozen door than it is to pull one open, as when opening the front doors. That is it! It's not the fault of Toyota, or Honda (yes, the Odyssey's doors will do the same thing - I also own one of those and can speak from first hand experience) or any other manufacturer. It is a very simple thing to understand. Sliding door + freezing wet weather = stuck door. I've owned three different minivans (98 Montana, 04 Odyssey EXL-RES, 07 Sienna XLE Ltd) and ALL OF THEM WOULD DO THE SAME THING. There is a very simple lesson to learn here - if you live in an area where you frequently deal with freezing weather and for whatever reason, find that you must park your van out of doors where it will be subject to liquid H2O and and sub 32 deg F temperatures, maybe you need to consider that this will be a potential problem and go for something different - like a Pilot, or a Highlander. Doors will freeze, and the more contact area, the more ice will form and the harder it will be to get it unstuck. Throw in the fact that the electric motor that opens the door is going to have to work harder in the cold and you have the scenario you are all griping about. The sliding electric door is not a perfect invention. It's a machine we are talking about - keep it in perspective. By the way, of the three vans I've owned, the Sienna's powered doors are BY FAR the best engineered and the only ones to automatically release and go into full manual mode if they lose power like when your kids leave the lights on. And they are the only ones I know of that allow you switch off the power mechanism and open manually with no resistance from the electric motor and cable assembly.
  • kinchicagolandkinchicagoland Member Posts: 10
    Today my car is at the dealer's service. They are putting silicone on all the seals. I have great doubts that this will fix the problem. Again I'm told this is a weather problem but not everyone with a minivan is having this problem. It seems to me most Siennas are not having this problem but some are. For those that have this problem, it creates a huge safety problem and inconvenience. I think it is a good idea to contact the media because it may be the only way to move Toyota. They finally are addressing the front door slider weld problem, but only after there was a video on U-TUBE.
    Have you read there was a weather stripping recall? I asked Toyota sevice and they said no.
    I read that Consumer Reports has downgraded Toyota Sienna to #5 due to poor response to consumer complaints. The Odyssey is now #1.We purchased a Sienna due to their great reliability record, presently I am sadly disappointed.
  • kinchicagolandkinchicagoland Member Posts: 10
    Dear person who sounds like you are getting a kick back from Toyota.
    Many people around where I live own minivans, their doors are not freezing. Hmmm. Sounds like this is not as universal a problem as you would like eveyone to believe. Don't you get it. If I knew then what I know now, that my kids would have to climb over the front seats to get to the back and that I would be driving around with my alarm door going on and off as well as the interior lights, yhea, Mr. Brilliant,I wouldn't have bought this minivan. But seeing as it doesn't look like Toyota plans on reimbursing me $30,000, I would like Toyota to fix their problem.

    Oh, by the way, I just got off the phone with Toyota service and one of the honest service guys told me THIS IS a problem the Siennas are experiencing. It is a problem with the material the weather stripping is made out of.

    This is not just a problem with the motorized door. It first started with my manual door. Both doors freeze shut now.

    Also I think VULCAN4 is right; the best thing is to go to the media. I would be happy to add your email. It is nice to know Toyota has ringers monitoring forum emails. Who else would waste their time trying to deny a problem that exists for these minivans. I am not here to bash Toyota. But apparently all the vans do not work alike. Do you think that is possible???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Make sure you keep the door seals clean and dry.

    If you don't have lithium grease around (use it sparingly) try talcom powder.

    My Miata's doors freeze shut all the time, it's a pain.

    No problems with our Sienna (yet).
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    I am not getting any kick backs from Toyota. I am simply pointing out that it IS NOT unique to the Sienna. I have owned the beloved Odyssey, as I said, as well as the much unbeloved Montana. Both were subject to door freezing. Odyssey is also subject to a whole slew of other issues (electrical, tranny, etc.) and I don't even need to waste my time pointing out the myriad issues with the GM minis.

    So are you trying to tell me that the Sienna uses a unique form of weatherstripping that causes it to glue the door shut at a higher frequency than other vehicles? I understand the frustration - it must be a huge inconvenience. I'm just pointing out that if ANY car is out in freezing wet weather, it will do the same thing. I did not say you are bashing Toyota, I just pointed out that you seem to be blaming them for a problem that is not unique to them or the Sienna. There are plenty of other folks with other brands of minivans that are experiencing frozen door issues. Of course you are not the only one having the problem. My point is that if you are parking it out in freezing wet weather, how can you expect the doors not to freeze? Unless you are telling me that parking in your garage causes the same problem :confuse: I doubt it. The only remedy might perhaps be to find some kind of lubricant that doesn't allow the ice to adhere to both surfaces. I just think you would have this problem regardless of what you are driving - the sliding doors are just making it more of a problem.

    You can use my email if you want to, but I don't see how it will help your cause so I don't know what your point is. If you think going to the media is going to fix it, then do it. But be sure you have come to the right conclusion first because if you can't prove that Toyota is at fault, then what? If Toyota used an inferior form of foam rubber for their weather seals, then they should fix that. I don't see that being the case is all I am saying. Possible, yes. But more likely is that other minivans are having the same cold weather door freezing issues. Do a search like I just did and see for yourself.

    BTW - our doors have never manlfunctioned and we've had several nights down in the teens already this year. Ours is garaged. I haven't added any lubricants to the seals so far, just what came with the van when we bought it in August.
  • kinchicagolandkinchicagoland Member Posts: 10
    I am very happy for you that you have a garage to protect your car, obviously you won't have the problem of H2O + freezing temps. I am not as fortunate as you, my car is parked outside. Yes your right, when I had to park it in an underground garage for may hours yesterday, it did defrost and the doors once again functioned. But since Toyota doesn't sell their minivan with the caveat that you must keep it in a garage in the winter and never park it outside if you work or must go shopping while it is snowing, I think you make a mute point.
Sign In or Register to comment.