This is from one Audi fanboy to another: I used to be all Audi, all the time. I wouldn't even consider other brands. But since then I've expanded my horizons.
BMWs are fantastic cars. Regardless of some crappy sales this month, they will be up, again, this year. The company is simply amazing. They have perfect dynamics, well-crafted interiors, unique styling (love it or hate it), excellent engine choices and somehow, they still maintain that classic BMW mystique.
Of course, I love Audi, too. And I would probably have one before any BMW. But you should consider that brand, as a car enthusiast: what's not to like?
By next year, I'll probably have two Audis and two BMWs in my garage... the perfect family!
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
What is so enticing about push-button start, anyway? Now every Audi outside of the A3, TT and R8 have it... but why? I still kind of like the tactile feel when you twist the key. Is it so hard?
However, I do think Comfort Access is very smart. I'm still not 100% sure about how to work it on the X5 (even when my fingers touch the ridges, it doesn't always open), but when I get the hang of it, it will be lovely.
BTW... are you absolutely positive that the C-Class doesn't have the push-button start on the shifter, à la SLR?
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
The writing isn't so hot, though. He says that the RS4's engine is nothing special? I'd like to see him design a better one. It's meant to be high-revving...
He also says that the engines are "noticeably identical!" Wow! What a shocker! LOL :P
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
"Buyers should either get the Accord and forget about Acura, or look elsewhere entirely. "
Oy. Tag, mi amigo. Here is a wild thought: What if an Acura is the car they want??? What if one cross-shopped the competition and for whatever crazy reason the Acura came out numero uno, top of the heap, king of the world in their eyes? It actually met their criteria?
I think some of y'all are a bit hard on dear ol' Acura. Generally, their cars do pretty well in reviews/comparo's in the rags. Now, I'm no great admirer of the RL and I agree the updates are no great step forward. I'll have to believe that Acura though SH-AWD and real wood would be enough to differentiate it from the fab TL. But, no.
The TSX, TL, MDX and RDX are pretty decent vehicles that do well in aforementioned reviews. Are they the best? That, of course, is in the eye of the purchaser... For the $30k I actually paid for my TL, great car. Was the best for me over the ES350, G35x, Saab 9-3, (hey, Saab family), BMW 328 back in '05.
Now, BMW 6 vs. Jag XK: Not quite Rosie O'donnel vs. Catherine Zeta Jones, but I think you know what I'm saying. The Bangle Butt on the 6 is an affront to all of mankind...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Whoa. Excuse me, dada. I most certainly did not say that very clearly. I was meaning to suggest that the Accord is a better buy than the '09 RL, or buyers should look elsewhere. I certainly never meant the entire Acura line-up... although I do think that all of Acura needs a serious "think tank", and improvement. Sorry for the confusion. :surprise:
My wife loves her MDX, and I absolutely think it's one of the best and most versatile vehicles in its category... even with all of its faults. So... I own an Acura, and that should say something to you.
The folks over at AutoCar have recently spotted the S400 Hybrid testing in Germany, showing that development is well on schedule for a 2009 market launch. This will make Mercedes the first auto maker to bring a hybrid car that uses lithium ion batteries to the roads, putting it a well ahead of Toyota and GM who plan to have a their lithium-ion powered cars on the market in late 2010.
The Mercedes-Benz S400 Hybrid’s 279 horsepower V6 engine will be mated with a 20 horsepower electric engine that will allow for an average fuel-economy of 27mpg. That puts the S400 hybrid well ahead of the Lexus LS hybrid which gives an estimated fuel-economy of 20mpg in the city and 22 on the highway.
However, performance wise the S400 will take 7.3 seconds to go from 0-60, while the Lexus LS takes 5.5. But let’s not forget that when shopping in this segment, performance figures are not a buyer’s first priority.
The Mercedes-Benz S400 Hybrid will also feature other fuel-saving technologies such as an automatic star-stop system, similar to the BMW Efficient Dynamics program.
You can expect to see the S400 on the market in mid-2009. The Mercedes ML450 hybrid will arrive first in early 2009.
I hate the idea of buying a third car and I also hate the idea of substituting my RWD car with an AWD one. No offence to the Audi folks but I want all my RWD performance cars to be RWD models.
I'm sure I've probably asked you this before, but what do you think of the G35x? The '08 car is now available with the same sport package option as the RWD car, while BMW still only offers the seats and wheels "sport" package on the 335xi. Under normal conditions the G35x sends 100% of torque to the rear wheels. It is the most transparently AWD car that I've driven. It's quite willing to get tail happy and play, with no front end Audi plow to be found. No stick option though. Used RS4? EVO X?
As for the interior... doesn't the XK have a maddeningly slow processor in its nav system?
A bit, yes. I don't use the XK's NAV frequently as it's not really my "trip" car, but I've used it on occasion and found it to be very good overall. Perhaps not the best among the top OEM NAV systems, but way up there. It makes the NAV in my wife's X3 seem like it came from the paleolithic era, and vs. iDrive, I'll take the Jag, thanks.
I appreciate the M5/6 for their technical prowess, but I'm just not interested in driving a super computer with a frankly lousy gearbox. The XKR (and my other fav, the Maser GT) are both much better GT cars, and the 911 and R8 are much better sports cars. I'd rather have a car that excels at one or the other than one that tries to do both and essentially fails. I would definitely love to try the Alpina B6 though. M6 power, without all the annoying stuff that goes along with it.
What is so enticing about push-button start, anyway? Now every Audi outside of the A3, TT and R8 have it... but why? I still kind of like the tactile feel when you twist the key. Is it so hard?
I have absolutely no problem with twisting a key. The problem I have is when you have to twist a piece of plastic permanently attached to the steering column instead of a key, and this is passed off as a "keyless ignition" system. A couple of cars used this type of system when they introduced keyless ignition systems mid-cycle, such as on the '05 G, which is excusable. What's not excusable is designing a car with an ignition system like that, as on the RL. It was obvious that Acura threw that in at the last minute when it was too late to do a start button. I can't imagine that they would be daft enough to actually want to do it that way. Still, it should've been fixed for the refresh.
Good post and I enjoyed it. Acura does indeed made some fine automobiles and even the RL is not as bad as some say. It is another viable choice in the market place. The TL is one of the best in the segment and the MDX is top notch.
Tagman, you are just going to have to accept the fact that not everyone is hog wild crazy about BMWs. I am glad that you love them but the fact is that I am just not that crazy about them. I have owned them in the past and they were just OK as far as I am concerned.
Please remember that age wise, I am probably a generation ahead of you. Believe me, as YOU get older, your priorities and your likes and dislikes will also change. Trust me on this.
In the meantime I am sure that you will love your new BMW and I hope that you do.
Okey-dokey. I guess I just didn't read the direct Accord/RL reference in your original post clearly (late at night for me then...). And, of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no less valid than mine.
Maybe the new RL will look better in person? I hope they don't turn the TL into a "Transformer" look. I still think this gen TL is one of the most handsome cars on the road.
And actually, the point about your MDX is a good one. Whilst one can criticize Acura (or any brand) for whatever reason, I don't think I've ever met an owner who was displeased with their Acura. My Dad, neighbor and I love our TLs, Bro enjoyed his MDX (but wife wanted to go upmarket,replaced by an LR3), co-worker her RL, etc. In fact Bro just traded his Land Rover LR3 (two year lease, I guess his wife didn't love it as much as she thought she would!) for an RDX! He loves the RDX! I guess the cost of a gallon of gas doesn't mean much to him... Nice to have money, or so I'm told...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I'm sure I've probably asked you this before, but what do you think of the G35x?
I hear you. It's a great car but if I buy a performance car I want RWD and nothing but RWD.
At first I bought the 530xi touring for myself and ASAP I gave it to my wife and bought a 335i RWD instead. Being so biased has a price in snow covered Toronto. My wife drives her 530xi during winters so I am the one who gets stuck in snow piles. I accidentally smashed my shovel on my windshield today while shoveling myself out and now I got a huge crack. Our 83 MB 300D is sheltered in our garage during winters and is hardly ever driven even during warmer seasons. This car is as active as our heirloom grandfather's clock.
Right now I am thinking of getting a no nonsense winter auto like the ToyotaRAV4. I know, I know this vehicle is the antithesis of an enthusiast vehicle but at least I will have my 335i during the other three seasons. Also I am just not a believer in luxury performance sport utes like the BMW X3 or Infiniti's EX 35. I just want something practical that reduces my snow shoveling and my reliance on Good Samaritans for a car shove.
I just talked to a gentleman here at the store that saw one of the GT-R's in person when he was in Hong Kong. He's a GT3 owner and said that the GT-R was very good looking and very large. He wasn't able to look inside, but I showed him that picture and he said, "Yup, that's Japanese for ya."
I can't say I'm a fan of that. Maybe I would overlook any interior problems after I mash the back of my head into the seat.
What is so enticing about push-button start, anyway?
Hmm... I don't know, it just feels good.
I think my point won't on the push-button start, to be honest I wouldn't mind the key-less twisting operation like the one found on the RL. As long as when I step in the car and don't have to pull out the key then I am good, it's all about convenience.
Before I have a car equipped with comfort access and push-button I, too, didn't think much of it. However, to me this is one of those things that as long as you don't have it, it's fine, but you can't go back once you got used to it.
BTW... are you absolutely positive that the C-Class doesn't have the push-button start on the shifter, à la SLR?
I am 100% absolutely positive that the new C still requires the driver to insert the key fob into the dash. There is an entry in Edmunds' long term blog that discussed this issue, you can check it out if you like.
Best Coupe: BMW 3-series - excellent choice Best SUV: Lincoln MKX - !#@%$!#^#$!$!#$%#4 Best Small Wagon: Audi A3 - good choice Best Midsize Wagon: Volvo XC70 - good choice Best Two-Seater: BMW Z4 - Eh... Best Compact Car: Lexus IS250 - excellent excellent choice Best Convertible: Saab 9-3 - no comment... Best Midsize Car: Acura TL - good choice Best Large Car: Infiniti M35 - hey, the 535i starts at $49,400! Best Hybrid: Lexus RX400h - good choice
I always get a kick out of Forbes lists for luxury cars. Luxury under $50K? Yes, to a point. But, how 'bout over $50K? Makes as much, or even more sense to me. The definition of luxury seems to be pretty loose lately, as more cars have become very well-equipped, but does that make them true luxury cars? Maybe, maybe not. If so, I would expect the Genesis could easily be on the list next year. :surprise:
Tagman, you are just going to have to accept the fact that not everyone is hog wild crazy about BMWs. I am glad that you love them but the fact is that I am just not that crazy about them. I have owned them in the past and they were just OK as far as I am concerned.
Houdini, surprisingly our opinions are often not as far apart as you might think. Let's make every effort to not sign up for the "us" vs. "them" mentality. It's too divisive and polarizing of all of us... When I think about it, all of us here have so much more in common, than our individual differences.
In reply to your post... BMW has always had my respect, but I have never owned one. My recent enthusiasm is quite natural with a new car on order and counting down the weeks until delivery. I am not fanatic or crazy about BMW, but I suppose I could become that way if the 135i turns out to be as incredible as many say it is. I'll just have to see for myself.
I don't expect everyone to like BMWs, or any particular marque, and I believe that everyone has their own particular individual tastes and preferences for various cars. That's everyone's freedom of expression, and it is something I understand and appreciate. In fact, contrary to what you may think, I embrace that way of thinking.
From a personal perspective, so far, I love my Porsche 997 as much as any car I've ever owned. It's really evolved into a truly great car over the years, and this latest rendition is very well done. The BMW 135i will have to be quite good for me to love it as much as the Porsche.
I am curious now... which BMWs did you own, and what did and didn't you like about them?
Actually it was only one. 1986 325 4-door sedan. I bought it for my wife thinking I would get it eventually, which I did about 1 year later when she had to have a Sterling. Remember that jewel? The Sterling was replaced by a 1990 MB 190 E.
Back to the BMW. I liked the car because it had simple, clean, upright lines. It was no speed demon but had adequate power. I honestly do not remember having any real issues with the car except that excessive brake dust drove us crazy and the front wheels always looked like crap. There was also always "cupping" and uneven wear problems with the front tires.
Then there was the winter weather driving difficulties that Dewey is presently suffering through. To this day it remains the only car I have even owned that stranded me in the snow and ice. This happened on more than one occasion. Back in those days the 3 series was a very small car and the battery was actually located in the trunk for better weight distribution.
It soldiered on, between the two of us for about 3 years. Overall not a bad car but also one that I was not sorry to see go.
Mercedes vehicles are notorious for that brake dust. Absolutely horrible at times, as the wheels can literally be coated to the point of turning almost black. I remember researching for alternative pads, which apparently were/are available. If I ever have another car that turns the wheels black like that, I would try to find a solution. I hope the 135i doesn't do it... but I imagine it could indeed be very possible.
Back in those days the 3 series was a very small car and the battery was actually located in the trunk for better weight distribution.
Actually the battery is still in the trunk as of in today's 3 series models.
Then there was the winter weather driving difficulties that Dewey is presently suffering through.
My wife's BMW AWD wagon drives great but what annoys me about my 335i is that I paid almost $3K with rims for my snow Bridgestone Blizzaks and despite that investment my car still gets stuck quite frequently.
I always get a kick out of Forbes lists for luxury cars.
There is not a single business publication that has great auto reviews. Not one. Sort of like using Consumers Report to choose what coffee you should drink on a daily basis.
As a 330i owner who put up with brake dust for years, I strongly recommend replacing the factory brake pads with PBR/Axxis Deluxe pads at your earliest convenience. Before I switched, I couldn't drive around the block without coating my wheels. Now my wheels stay clean for weeks on end.
For more information, go to any of the BMW 3-series fora & search on 'axxis'.
My 330xi is fantastic in the winter and is a blast as well. It might be down a notch or 2 in enthusiastic expectations but does just fine for mine. Don't even have to add the Blizzaks!
Just a great car...I get the brake dust as well but the rim design on the '06 is pretty easy to clean up and polish. Best of all, you have real fun check traction limits which are real high.
I am going to check out the 135i but i am liking the 335 after a loaner day long drive in one. Awesome performance...the turbos do it for me.
Maybe the new RL will look better in person? I hope they don't turn the TL into a "Transformer" look. I still think this gen TL is one of the most handsome cars on the road.
Unfortunately it seems like the Transformers/Voltron/Gundam/shield look is the new "face" of Acura. I also wouldn't be surprised to see a Bangle style rear end on the next TL.
Whilst one can criticize Acura (or any brand) for whatever reason, I don't think I've ever met an owner who was displeased with their Acura.
A lot of Saab owners like their cars as well, I just have no idea why. I understand that for some people Acuras are great, but to me each one has a huge flaw that I just cant get past. That, and I just don't think they have nice enough interiors or differentiate themselves well enough from the Hondas they are all based on.
Right now I am thinking of getting a no nonsense winter auto like the ToyotaRAV4.
Why not something like an A4 Avant? Not all AWD systems are created equal. There was a great video from some German TV show that showed an Audi Avant Quattro just destroying other AWD cars up a snow covered hill, including an RX, several XDrive BMWs, and even some full on 4x4s.
"A lot of Saab owners like their cars as well, I just have no idea why." Luckily for the Saab owners, they do have an idea why! I enjoyed our '95 Saab 900: fun, wicked practical, economical, sensible and different. And reliable!
I have no problem differentiating my Acura from a Honda. The absolute key here is that the TL is the car that I wanted. Not the (e.g.) Honda Accord.
And you are right, too. Whatever flaws you find in any car are a flaw...to you.
I care not what brand a car is. If it is the car that I want, I buy (well, if the Evil Wife lets me... ).
I'm hoping that the Bangle Butt has run its course. Although most of the brands that seem to have a variation on the Bangle Butt theme seem to do it better than the original... And each BMW post Bangle 7 series have toned it down a bit. Save for the most egregious example of the genre, the 6.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Best SUV: Lincoln MKX Yeah ok, sure. And the best entry-lux sports sedan is the Lincoln Zephyr... oops I mean "MKZ".
Best Midsize Wagon: Volvo XC70 I'm not so sure I'd call that a good choice. The new V/XC70 twins are mighty expensive for Volvos, and with the only engine in the US market being the NA 3.2, they are completely gutless as well.
Best Two-Seater: BMW Z4 Only in a world where the Boxster/Cayman don't exist.
Best Convertible: Saab 9-3 The A4 and BMW 3 cabs would probably say otherwise.
Best Midsize Car: Acura TL Except for the fact that the G is much better
Best Hybrid: Lexus RX400h The under $50K luxury hybrids is a class of one
I just don't think they have nice enough interiors or differentiate themselves well enough from the Hondas they are all based on.
I have posted that the typical comparison of a Honda and an Acura often leads the buyer to pick the Honda as the better value... unlike Lexus, which is more clearly a step above it's Toyota counterparts. I still believe this in spite of what I am about to post.
That said... Let me share this. A couple of years ago I traded in a loaded GMC Denali XL on a Honda Pilot. Within a few weeks my wife ran out of gas on the freeway in her new Pilot. Why? Because there was no trip computer in the Honda... like her previous Denali had, and like the MDX has... to tell her how many miles she could go before running out of gas. Apparently, the freakin' warning light was not enough. She thought she could milk a few extra miles out if it, but she was wrong. I had to rescue her on the freeway. Shortly after that, my daughter mentioned to me that when my wife was driving at night in the Pilot, she would frequently forget to turn on her headlights. Why? Because the lights didn't have an auto-on function like the previous Denali had, or like the Acura MDX has.
The Pilot did have a navigation system. However, with that option, the rear seat entertainment system could not be ordered simultaneously... a factory limitation. The kids missed that, and I considered an aftermarket add-on. The previous Denali had a rear entertainment system and the Acura MDX offered a DVD rear-seat entertainment system simultaneously with the navigation system.
So... very shortly after I had purchased the Honda Pilot, I knew what I needed to do. I took it to the Acura dealer and traded it in on an MDX. Yes, the interior has fake wood, but otherwise it's fine. The quality of the materials is not quite as nice as I would like it to be, but it's more than adequate for an SUV. The 4-wheel drive system is terrific in the Acura, and the fold flat rear seats are darn near perfect... and they actually have enough room for two real-size human beings, unlike some third-row seats that have no room or can't even fold flat.
So, in defense of Acura... with all of its faults... the MDX continues to be one of the most versatile 7-passenger SUVs on the market, as well as one of the best handling SUVs. It's quiter than it's Honda counterpart, and much better-equipped. The interior room is tremendous for its very maneuverable exterior size, unlike the huge Denali XL (which is a gussied-up Suburban). The fuel economy is reasonable, but not great, as seems to be the case with all SUVs in general... but it is still better than many. The vehicle has Bluetooth, hands-free Voice-Command, DVD entertainment, XM satellite radio, one of the best Navigation systems with touch-screen and a great GUI, back-up parking sensors as well as color rear-vision camera, and all the automatic goodies. It's totally loaded. And she hasn't run out of gas or had to turn on her own headlights...LOL.
So... should the interior in an Acura MDX be nicer? Yes it should, IMO. But there is a definate reason that the Acura MDX is so successful. It simply does a whole lot very well for an SUV... in fact, it does it better than most... and it is easily differentiated from the Honda Pilot. Credit continues to go to Acura for its MDX.
For those that have never seen the inside of an '06 MDX, here's a peak....
The vehicle has Bluetooth, hands-free Voice-Command, DVD entertainment, XM satellite radio, one of the best Navigation systems with touch-screen and a great GUI, back-up parking sensors as well as color rear-vision camera, and all the automatic goodies. It's totally loaded. And she hasn't run out of gas or had to turn on her own headlights...LOL.
Recent Acuras haven't really been left wanting when it comes to this sort of tech stuff. The RL is also loaded to the gills with these sorts of things, but it's still a fundamentally flawed car. The MDX is and has always been Acura's best executed product, and I can definitely see how it could be a great fit for many people. We may well have gone for the old one over the RX300 if the waiting list wasn't something like half a year. (It was right after launch). The interior of the last MDX wasn't great either, but it was only $35K or so loaded up so that didn't really matter. Now its $50K loaded up, the interior quality is still lousy, and it matters. My wife and I also really don't agree with the "bigger is better" mentality, and she wants to stick with something the size of that old RX, so the MDX is completely out of consideration for her anyway, it's just too big. Unlike the MDX the RDX is quite poorly executed, so that was written off early as well. I'd like a power passenger seat in my "luxury" SUV, thanks.
There will be an Audi Q3... bet on it. It may be what we are both after in a few more years.
In the meantime, you may want an Infiniti EX.
I'm still not sure how big the Q5 is supposed to be. If it comes in under 185 or so, that could definitely be a possibility as well. The EX is the new performance king, and I love that interior, but it's a lot more cramped than the X3 is. Too cramped, I think. The 16/23 FE isn't so hot either.
Supposedly the Jag F-type idea from several years ago is back on the front burner at the "new" Jag for production possibility. If so, the Z4, TT, and SLK should watch out. Here's what a production F-type might look like:
I'm still not sure how big the Q5 is supposed to be.
Here LG... I think this will help you. (As I was saying, I think the Q3 will be more like the machine you are after. As indicated, the Q5 will be more like those mid-sized SUVs that you said are too big for your taste.)
This, from egmCarTech... (link below):
We were pretty disappointed at the LA Auto Show, when the Audi Q5 was a no show despite word from credible sources prior to the press days. Instead we had to pretend to be pleased with the fugly Audi Cross Cabriolet Quattro Concept (of which you’ll see hints of in the Q5). However, the Audi Q5 has been spotted many times after the LA Auto Show and we now have photo renderings based on the latest spy shots.
To clear up some confusion, we’ve been asked many times what the Q5 will compete with. Initially when word came about of the Q5, many said the smaller sibling to the Q7 will compete with the likes of BMW X3 and the upcoming Mercedes GLK. However, that’s not the case. Audi is working on a more compact SUV dubbed the Q3, which will go head-to-head with the X3, GLK and the Acura RDX. The Audi Q5 is a mid-sized SUV which is built on the Audi MLP platform like the A5 and is targeted more towards the Acura MDX, Lexus RX and Mercedes M-Class crowd.
According to the leaked Audi 2008 internal product launch document, the Audi Q5 will debut in Germany with three engine variants. The first being a 2.0 TFSI that will produce an output of 207hp . The second two will be TDI versions including a 2.0 liter that will produce 167hp and a 3.0 liter that will produce 236hp. Nothing has been officially said for the U.S. as of yet, but we expect the base model to start off with a 3.0 TFSI 4-cylinder unit followed by a ranger-topper 3.2 V6.
The first public introduction of the Audi Q5 is scheduled for the 2008 Geneva Motor Show in March. Deliveries will start in Germany in the third quarter of 2008. The U.S. will get their offering in early 2009.
I've always thought that if they would just lengthen that hood a bit, and add the vents, they could get some of that incredible XKE look. Oh well. I must be the only one.
In case you missed it, here is the US News and World Report ranking of premium large cars, including sedans, generally priced $40,000 to $60,000. Mercedes Benz E Class, Lexus GS, Cadillac STS and more.
But at the moment I have no idea where the Porsche would fit in. The Panamera would most likely be out of reach as a "second" car. If I replaced the S4 with a 911, I wouldn't have any Audis any more, because by then my son (the one getting the A3) would either be in college or near it!
So it's probably a BMW/Audi sedan in the fall. If I get an Audi sedan, the convertible to replace the S4 will almost definitely be a 997. If I get a BMW sedan, I'm not so sure.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
The XKR (and my other fav, the Maser GT) are both much better GT cars, and the 911 and R8 are much better sports cars. I'd rather have a car that excels at one or the other than one that tries to do both and essentially fails.
Absolutely. I completely agree. You just single-handedly turned me off of the 6 Series and M6; it's not luxurious, comfortable or spacious enough to be had as a GT, and it's not light or focused enough to be thought of as a sports car.
By the way, I love every car you mentioned there. At that price, if I couldn't have an R8, I would get a Maser GT! That car is simply incredible!
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Comments
This is from one Audi fanboy to another: I used to be all Audi, all the time. I wouldn't even consider other brands. But since then I've expanded my horizons.
BMWs are fantastic cars. Regardless of some crappy sales this month, they will be up, again, this year. The company is simply amazing. They have perfect dynamics, well-crafted interiors, unique styling (love it or hate it), excellent engine choices and somehow, they still maintain that classic BMW mystique.
Of course, I love Audi, too. And I would probably have one before any BMW. But you should consider that brand, as a car enthusiast: what's not to like?
By next year, I'll probably have two Audis and two BMWs in my garage... the perfect family!
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
video-audi-rs4-takes-on-the-r8
Awesome footage! Cute ending.
TagMan
However, I do think Comfort Access is very smart. I'm still not 100% sure about how to work it on the X5 (even when my fingers touch the ridges, it doesn't always open), but when I get the hang of it, it will be lovely.
BTW... are you absolutely positive that the C-Class doesn't have the push-button start on the shifter, à la SLR?
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
The writing isn't so hot, though. He says that the RS4's engine is nothing special? I'd like to see him design a better one. It's meant to be high-revving...
He also says that the engines are "noticeably identical!" Wow! What a shocker! LOL :P
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Oh yeah.
TM
Oy. Tag, mi amigo. Here is a wild thought: What if an Acura is the car they want??? What if one cross-shopped the competition and for whatever crazy reason the Acura came out numero uno, top of the heap, king of the world in their eyes? It actually met their criteria?
I think some of y'all are a bit hard on dear ol' Acura. Generally, their cars do pretty well in reviews/comparo's in the rags. Now, I'm no great admirer of the RL and I agree the updates are no great step forward. I'll have to believe that Acura though SH-AWD and real wood would be enough to differentiate it from the fab TL. But, no.
The TSX, TL, MDX and RDX are pretty decent vehicles that do well in aforementioned reviews. Are they the best? That, of course, is in the eye of the purchaser... For the $30k I actually paid for my TL, great car. Was the best for me over the ES350, G35x, Saab 9-3, (hey, Saab family), BMW 328 back in '05.
Now, BMW 6 vs. Jag XK: Not quite Rosie O'donnel vs. Catherine Zeta Jones, but I think you know what I'm saying. The Bangle Butt on the 6 is an affront to all of mankind...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
My wife loves her MDX, and I absolutely think it's one of the best and most versatile vehicles in its category... even with all of its faults. So... I own an Acura, and that should say something to you.
TagMan
Nothing.
But "keyless" can be convenient.
TM
What? No Porsche?
Almost perfect family.
TM
check out this photo rendering of what might be the 2011 Audi R4...
Here's more info:
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TagMan
The folks over at AutoCar have recently spotted the S400 Hybrid testing in Germany, showing that development is well on schedule for a 2009 market launch. This will make Mercedes the first auto maker to bring a hybrid car that uses lithium ion batteries to the roads, putting it a well ahead of Toyota and GM who plan to have a their lithium-ion powered cars on the market in late 2010.
The Mercedes-Benz S400 Hybrid’s 279 horsepower V6 engine will be mated with a 20 horsepower electric engine that will allow for an average fuel-economy of 27mpg. That puts the S400 hybrid well ahead of the Lexus LS hybrid which gives an estimated fuel-economy of 20mpg in the city and 22 on the highway.
However, performance wise the S400 will take 7.3 seconds to go from 0-60, while the Lexus LS takes 5.5. But let’s not forget that when shopping in this segment, performance figures are not a buyer’s first priority.
The Mercedes-Benz S400 Hybrid will also feature other fuel-saving technologies such as an automatic star-stop system, similar to the BMW Efficient Dynamics program.
You can expect to see the S400 on the market in mid-2009. The Mercedes ML450 hybrid will arrive first in early 2009.
primary source: AutoCar
secondary source: egmCarTech
TagMan
I'm sure I've probably asked you this before, but what do you think of the G35x? The '08 car is now available with the same sport package option as the RWD car, while BMW still only offers the seats and wheels "sport" package on the 335xi. Under normal conditions the G35x sends 100% of torque to the rear wheels. It is the most transparently AWD car that I've driven. It's quite willing to get tail happy and play, with no front end Audi plow to be found. No stick option though. Used RS4? EVO X?
As for the interior... doesn't the XK have a maddeningly slow processor in its nav system?
A bit, yes.
I appreciate the M5/6 for their technical prowess, but I'm just not interested in driving a super computer with a frankly lousy gearbox. The XKR (and my other fav, the Maser GT) are both much better GT cars, and the 911 and R8 are much better sports cars. I'd rather have a car that excels at one or the other than one that tries to do both and essentially fails. I would definitely love to try the Alpina B6 though. M6 power, without all the annoying stuff that goes along with it.
I have absolutely no problem with twisting a key. The problem I have is when you have to twist a piece of plastic permanently attached to the steering column instead of a key, and this is passed off as a "keyless ignition" system. A couple of cars used this type of system when they introduced keyless ignition systems mid-cycle, such as on the '05 G, which is excusable. What's not excusable is designing a car with an ignition system like that, as on the RL. It was obvious that Acura threw that in at the last minute when it was too late to do a start button. I can't imagine that they would be daft enough to actually want to do it that way. Still, it should've been fixed for the refresh.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Please remember that age wise, I am probably a generation ahead of you. Believe me, as YOU get older, your priorities and your likes and dislikes will also change. Trust me on this.
In the meantime I am sure that you will love your new BMW and I hope that you do.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Maybe the new RL will look better in person? I hope they don't turn the TL into a "Transformer" look. I still think this gen TL is one of the most handsome cars on the road.
And actually, the point about your MDX is a good one. Whilst one can criticize Acura (or any brand) for whatever reason, I don't think I've ever met an owner who was displeased with their Acura. My Dad, neighbor and I love our TLs, Bro enjoyed his MDX (but wife wanted to go upmarket,replaced by an LR3), co-worker her RL, etc. In fact Bro just traded his Land Rover LR3 (two year lease, I guess his wife didn't love it as much as she thought she would!) for an RDX! He loves the RDX! I guess the cost of a gallon of gas doesn't mean much to him...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
-moo
TM
I hear you. It's a great car but if I buy a performance car I want RWD and nothing but RWD.
At first I bought the 530xi touring for myself and ASAP I gave it to my wife and bought a 335i RWD instead. Being so biased has a price in snow covered Toronto.
My wife drives her 530xi during winters so I am the one who gets stuck in snow piles. I accidentally smashed my shovel on my windshield today while shoveling myself out and now I got a huge crack.
Right now I am thinking of getting a no nonsense winter auto like the ToyotaRAV4.
I know, I know this vehicle is the antithesis of an enthusiast vehicle but at least I will have my 335i during the other three seasons. Also I am just not a believer in luxury performance sport utes like the BMW X3 or Infiniti's EX 35. I just want something practical that reduces my snow shoveling and my reliance on Good Samaritans for a car shove.
I can't say I'm a fan of that. Maybe I would overlook any interior problems after I mash the back of my head into the seat.
-moo
Hmm... I don't know, it just feels good.
I think my point won't on the push-button start, to be honest I wouldn't mind the key-less twisting operation like the one found on the RL. As long as when I step in the car and don't have to pull out the key then I am good, it's all about convenience.
Before I have a car equipped with comfort access and push-button I, too, didn't think much of it. However, to me this is one of those things that as long as you don't have it, it's fine, but you can't go back once you got used to it.
BTW... are you absolutely positive that the C-Class doesn't have the push-button start on the shifter, à la SLR?
I am 100% absolutely positive that the new C still requires the driver to insert the key fob into the dash. There is an entry in Edmunds' long term blog that discussed this issue, you can check it out if you like.
Best SUV: Lincoln MKX - !#@%$!#^#$!$!#$%#4
Best Small Wagon: Audi A3 - good choice
Best Midsize Wagon: Volvo XC70 - good choice
Best Two-Seater: BMW Z4 - Eh...
Best Compact Car: Lexus IS250 - excellent excellent choice
Best Convertible: Saab 9-3 - no comment...
Best Midsize Car: Acura TL - good choice
Best Large Car: Infiniti M35 - hey, the 535i starts at $49,400!
Best Hybrid: Lexus RX400h - good choice
Source: Forbes
TM
Houdini, surprisingly our opinions are often not as far apart as you might think. Let's make every effort to not sign up for the "us" vs. "them" mentality. It's too divisive and polarizing of all of us... When I think about it, all of us here have so much more in common, than our individual differences.
In reply to your post... BMW has always had my respect, but I have never owned one. My recent enthusiasm is quite natural with a new car on order and counting down the weeks until delivery. I am not fanatic or crazy about BMW, but I suppose I could become that way if the 135i turns out to be as incredible as many say it is. I'll just have to see for myself.
I don't expect everyone to like BMWs, or any particular marque, and I believe that everyone has their own particular individual tastes and preferences for various cars. That's everyone's freedom of expression, and it is something I understand and appreciate. In fact, contrary to what you may think, I embrace that way of thinking.
From a personal perspective, so far, I love my Porsche 997 as much as any car I've ever owned. It's really evolved into a truly great car over the years, and this latest rendition is very well done. The BMW 135i will have to be quite good for me to love it as much as the Porsche.
I am curious now... which BMWs did you own, and what did and didn't you like about them?
TagMan
Back to the BMW. I liked the car because it had simple, clean, upright lines. It was no speed demon but had adequate power. I honestly do not remember having any real issues with the car except that excessive brake dust drove us crazy and the front wheels always looked like crap. There was also always "cupping" and uneven wear problems with the front tires.
Then there was the winter weather driving difficulties that Dewey is presently suffering through. To this day it remains the only car I have even owned that stranded me in the snow and ice. This happened on more than one occasion. Back in those days the 3 series was a very small car and the battery was actually located in the trunk for better weight distribution.
It soldiered on, between the two of us for about 3 years. Overall not a bad car but also one that I was not sorry to see go.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
TagMan
Actually the battery is still in the trunk as of in today's 3 series models.
Then there was the winter weather driving difficulties that Dewey is presently suffering through.
My wife's BMW AWD wagon drives great but what annoys me about my 335i is that I paid almost $3K with rims for my snow Bridgestone Blizzaks and despite that investment my car still gets stuck quite frequently.
There is not a single business publication that has great auto reviews. Not one. Sort of like using Consumers Report to choose what coffee you should drink on a daily basis.
McDonalds of course... what else?
TM
For more information, go to any of the BMW 3-series fora & search on 'axxis'.
TM
Just a great car...I get the brake dust as well but the rim design on the '06 is pretty easy to clean up and polish. Best of all, you have real fun check traction limits which are real high.
I am going to check out the 135i but i am liking the 335 after a loaner day long drive in one. Awesome performance...the turbos do it for me.
Regards,
OW
The same person is willing to pay $15 to 20M for plate 1 which will be auction next month.
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Then what about thier own completion
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Unfortunately it seems like the Transformers/Voltron/Gundam/shield look is the new "face" of Acura. I also wouldn't be surprised to see a Bangle style rear end on the next TL.
Whilst one can criticize Acura (or any brand) for whatever reason, I don't think I've ever met an owner who was displeased with their Acura.
A lot of Saab owners like their cars as well, I just have no idea why. I understand that for some people Acuras are great, but to me each one has a huge flaw that I just cant get past. That, and I just don't think they have nice enough interiors or differentiate themselves well enough from the Hondas they are all based on.
Why not something like an A4 Avant? Not all AWD systems are created equal. There was a great video from some German TV show that showed an Audi Avant Quattro just destroying other AWD cars up a snow covered hill, including an RX, several XDrive BMWs, and even some full on 4x4s.
I have no problem differentiating my Acura from a Honda. The absolute key here is that the TL is the car that I wanted. Not the (e.g.) Honda Accord.
And you are right, too. Whatever flaws you find in any car are a flaw...to you.
I care not what brand a car is. If it is the car that I want, I buy (well, if the Evil Wife lets me...
I'm hoping that the Bangle Butt has run its course. Although most of the brands that seem to have a variation on the Bangle Butt theme seem to do it better than the original... And each BMW post Bangle 7 series have toned it down a bit. Save for the most egregious example of the genre, the 6.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Best Midsize Wagon: Volvo XC70 I'm not so sure I'd call that a good choice. The new V/XC70 twins are mighty expensive for Volvos, and with the only engine in the US market being the NA 3.2, they are completely gutless as well.
Best Two-Seater: BMW Z4 Only in a world where the Boxster/Cayman don't exist.
Best Convertible: Saab 9-3 The A4 and BMW 3 cabs would probably say otherwise.
Best Midsize Car: Acura TL Except for the fact that the G is much better
Best Hybrid: Lexus RX400h The under $50K luxury hybrids is a class of one
I have posted that the typical comparison of a Honda and an Acura often leads the buyer to pick the Honda as the better value... unlike Lexus, which is more clearly a step above it's Toyota counterparts. I still believe this in spite of what I am about to post.
That said... Let me share this. A couple of years ago I traded in a loaded GMC Denali XL on a Honda Pilot. Within a few weeks my wife ran out of gas on the freeway in her new Pilot. Why? Because there was no trip computer in the Honda... like her previous Denali had, and like the MDX has... to tell her how many miles she could go before running out of gas. Apparently, the freakin' warning light was not enough. She thought she could milk a few extra miles out if it, but she was wrong. I had to rescue her on the freeway. Shortly after that, my daughter mentioned to me that when my wife was driving at night in the Pilot, she would frequently forget to turn on her headlights. Why? Because the lights didn't have an auto-on function like the previous Denali had, or like the Acura MDX has.
The Pilot did have a navigation system. However, with that option, the rear seat entertainment system could not be ordered simultaneously... a factory limitation. The kids missed that, and I considered an aftermarket add-on. The previous Denali had a rear entertainment system and the Acura MDX offered a DVD rear-seat entertainment system simultaneously with the navigation system.
So... very shortly after I had purchased the Honda Pilot, I knew what I needed to do. I took it to the Acura dealer and traded it in on an MDX. Yes, the interior has fake wood, but otherwise it's fine. The quality of the materials is not quite as nice as I would like it to be, but it's more than adequate for an SUV. The 4-wheel drive system is terrific in the Acura, and the fold flat rear seats are darn near perfect... and they actually have enough room for two real-size human beings, unlike some third-row seats that have no room or can't even fold flat.
So, in defense of Acura... with all of its faults... the MDX continues to be one of the most versatile 7-passenger SUVs on the market, as well as one of the best handling SUVs. It's quiter than it's Honda counterpart, and much better-equipped. The interior room is tremendous for its very maneuverable exterior size, unlike the huge Denali XL (which is a gussied-up Suburban). The fuel economy is reasonable, but not great, as seems to be the case with all SUVs in general... but it is still better than many. The vehicle has Bluetooth, hands-free Voice-Command, DVD entertainment, XM satellite radio, one of the best Navigation systems with touch-screen and a great GUI, back-up parking sensors as well as color rear-vision camera, and all the automatic goodies. It's totally loaded. And she hasn't run out of gas or had to turn on her own headlights...LOL.
So... should the interior in an Acura MDX be nicer? Yes it should, IMO. But there is a definate reason that the Acura MDX is so successful. It simply does a whole lot very well for an SUV... in fact, it does it better than most... and it is easily differentiated from the Honda Pilot. Credit continues to go to Acura for its MDX.
For those that have never seen the inside of an '06 MDX, here's a peak....
TagMan
Recent Acuras haven't really been left wanting when it comes to this sort of tech stuff. The RL is also loaded to the gills with these sorts of things, but it's still a fundamentally flawed car. The MDX is and has always been Acura's best executed product, and I can definitely see how it could be a great fit for many people. We may well have gone for the old one over the RX300 if the waiting list wasn't something like half a year. (It was right after launch). The interior of the last MDX wasn't great either, but it was only $35K or so loaded up so that didn't really matter. Now its $50K loaded up, the interior quality is still lousy, and it matters. My wife and I also really don't agree with the "bigger is better" mentality, and she wants to stick with something the size of that old RX, so the MDX is completely out of consideration for her anyway, it's just too big. Unlike the MDX the RDX is quite poorly executed, so that was written off early as well. I'd like a power passenger seat in my "luxury" SUV, thanks.
TM
In the meantime, you may want an Infiniti EX.
TM
In the meantime, you may want an Infiniti EX.
I'm still not sure how big the Q5 is supposed to be. If it comes in under 185 or so, that could definitely be a possibility as well. The EX is the new performance king, and I love that interior, but it's a lot more cramped than the X3 is. Too cramped, I think. The 16/23 FE isn't so hot either.
Here LG... I think this will help you. (As I was saying, I think the Q3 will be more like the machine you are after. As indicated, the Q5 will be more like those mid-sized SUVs that you said are too big for your taste.)
This, from egmCarTech... (link below):
We were pretty disappointed at the LA Auto Show, when the Audi Q5 was a no show despite word from credible sources prior to the press days. Instead we had to pretend to be pleased with the fugly Audi Cross Cabriolet Quattro Concept (of which you’ll see hints of in the Q5). However, the Audi Q5 has been spotted many times after the LA Auto Show and we now have photo renderings based on the latest spy shots.
To clear up some confusion, we’ve been asked many times what the Q5 will compete with. Initially when word came about of the Q5, many said the smaller sibling to the Q7 will compete with the likes of BMW X3 and the upcoming Mercedes GLK. However, that’s not the case. Audi is working on a more compact SUV dubbed the Q3, which will go head-to-head with the X3, GLK and the Acura RDX. The Audi Q5 is a mid-sized SUV which is built on the Audi MLP platform like the A5 and is targeted more towards the Acura MDX, Lexus RX and Mercedes M-Class crowd.
According to the leaked Audi 2008 internal product launch document, the Audi Q5 will debut in Germany with three engine variants. The first being a 2.0 TFSI that will produce an output of 207hp . The second two will be TDI versions including a 2.0 liter that will produce 167hp and a 3.0 liter that will produce 236hp. Nothing has been officially said for the U.S. as of yet, but we expect the base model to start off with a 3.0 TFSI 4-cylinder unit followed by a ranger-topper 3.2 V6.
The first public introduction of the Audi Q5 is scheduled for the 2008 Geneva Motor Show in March. Deliveries will start in Germany in the third quarter of 2008. The U.S. will get their offering in early 2009.
2009-audi-q5
TagMan
from this...
to a little more like this...
sigh......
TagMan
Best Luxury Large Cars
But at the moment I have no idea where the Porsche would fit in. The Panamera would most likely be out of reach as a "second" car. If I replaced the S4 with a 911, I wouldn't have any Audis any more, because by then my son (the one getting the A3) would either be in college or near it!
So it's probably a BMW/Audi sedan in the fall. If I get an Audi sedan, the convertible to replace the S4 will almost definitely be a 997. If I get a BMW sedan, I'm not so sure.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Absolutely. I completely agree. You just single-handedly turned me off of the 6 Series and M6; it's not luxurious, comfortable or spacious enough to be had as a GT, and it's not light or focused enough to be thought of as a sports car.
By the way, I love every car you mentioned there. At that price, if I couldn't have an R8, I would get a Maser GT! That car is simply incredible!
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet