Luxury Lounge

houdini1

Yeah, but what does Forbes know about toasters?

tagman

Sure, maybe the Porsche 911 is in fact the worlds' best automobile.

But, here's another interesting report from U.S News & World Report.

They show individual categories, and guess what? German cars are the winners in more categories than the Japanese! Are you surprised? And in the "Luxury Large Car" category, the 2008 BMW 5-Series is the top-ranked car. In the "Super Luxury" category the top-ranked car is the 2008 Audi A8!!! (ahead of the Lexus LS!!)... another German winner!! In fact, in the "Upscale Mid-size" category, the BMW 3-Series is the top-ranked car... need I say it's German? Even in the "Upscale Small Car" category the winner is the German GTI.

Maybe you had better put down the sushi rolls for awhile...

TagMan

tagman

Yeah, but what does Forbes know about toasters?

LOL... What does Consumer Reports know about money?... Or a good investment?

TM

tagman

A good portion of what makes up a desirable luxury vehicle comes from the charisma and snob appeal associated with the company's name. Luxury vehicles by their very nature are supposed to be expensive and hence, out of reach for most people.

Better tell that to all those Chrysler 300 owners who think they purchased luxury at a good price. What were they thinking?

The Genesis is going to blow things wide open!! Just wait and see. I recently posted the results from the Genesis advertisements on the Super Bowl... it was staggering how well those ads worked. Believe me... the Genesis is going to be successful... as cazy as it sounds.

TM

hpowders

And they rate the RX 350 in first place and the MDX in third place for upscale mid-sized SUVs. Who knows how far down they rate the X5. LOL!!

US News ought to stick to politics.

Mr. H

tagman

I agree. You see there are lots of different opinions everywhere. And my overall point here was to show just that. When the good Mr. Houdini posted that the LS was the world's best car, period... I wanted to show how easy it is to challenge that. As you can see, it is very easy to come up with different opinions on what's best. It just depends upon the source. Consumer Reports is just one of many different sources. Perhaps they should stick to toasters and blenders, and U.S. News should stick to politics, and perhaps Forbes should stick to Investments.

It's kind of funny... EVERYONE seems to have an opinion about cars, no matter what their actual expertise really is.

Anyway, no real way to ever say that the LS is the world's best car. Particularly since the world's best car is a Porsche!!! :P

TagMan

hpowders

From various sources, Hyundai's reliability has been average at best to mediocre at worst. I wouldn't take a chance on a Hyundai vehicle at this time.

I can't see many folks being fooled into spending big bucks for Hyundai "luxury." Of course, I could be wrong.

I like your version of the world better-dominated by high performance vehicles.

hpowders

Going back a few voluminous pages it seems you are getting a 135i convertible. That should be very nice indeed! Ahh! Red! The one color specifically and scientifically calibrated to pacify ol' smokey! :surprise:

tagman

Actually, Hyundai's reliability hasn't been all that bad... again, depending upon what source. They also have one of the very best warranties in the business. I don't think the risk is all that large. Some would argue that their reliability is better than BMW... but then again, it depends upon the source.

Besides, since when did reliability become such a big concern for you? Next thing you know, you'll be quoting Consumer Reports, bashing BMWs, and buying a Toyota. :surprise:

TM

hpowders

There was a poster a few pages back who was worried about taking a chance on a BMW vehicle and he mentioned that he would rather go with a Lexus. BMW has really cleaned up its image and most of their vehicles are reliable. One source I follow has a disappointing report on the 2008 5 Series, however-a bit too many trips to the dealer. BMW had better watch it with all that fancy schmancy new technology. It can come back and bite 'em!

tagman

There isn't much real evidence for red cars getting more tickets. The most visible car color, according to a study conducted by Mercedes Benz, is white. Theoretically they should get the most tickets. On a seperate note, strangely, the safest car, however, is silver, as measured by being involved in the fewest accidents, and black cars are in an extremely disproportionate and very high percentage of accidents. Glad I cancelled the black coupe for a red convertible! Much safer!!... LOL.

TM

tagman

BMW had better watch it with all that fancy schmancy new technology. It can come back and bite 'em!

Lexus, also. That fancy shmancy self-park seems to park itself in front of liquor stores and Hooters restaurants! :confuse:

TM

hpowders

I have always liked silver: low maintenance cleaning and a smart, conservative color.

My next vehicle will continue to be silver-the 545i or MDX.

However, in a convertible I could definitely see myself in red. March 22nd?

hpowders

Funny! I watched an excruciating video on You Tube demonstrating the self-parking procedure. One could self-park 10 LS's in the time it took to do it "the easy way".
Heh! Heh!

tagman

I've had more silver cars than any color. My Jag XJ Vanden Plas is silver with chrome wheels. I like silver also. But I really want this convertible to be sporty and fun... and I haven't had a red car since my very first Porsche Carrera in the 80's. I feel good about this car in red. It will look great. If it was a hardtop, I'd have gone with a more consevative color, as you said. And you are so right about silver being easy to clean.

edit: no, not March 22nd. That's for the coupe. The convertible is approximately 30 - 60 days later... most likely mid-May. The wait will be an eternity... but really worth that little extra time in the long run.

TM

hpowders

Curious to know how the 135i stacks up against the 911. Although nothing has better brakes than the Porsche.

Yes. That 135i convertible should look fantastic in red.

Please post a photo or two.

Mr. H

hpowders

May would be a perfect time. The start of perfect convertible weather. It doesn't get much better than that!

I'm thinking of floating the 545i CPO idea in the direction my wife's ears tonight. If I never post again, Tagman and Tony, please tell the world my story! :surprise:

Thank you.

Mr. H

tagman

True... the Porsche brakes are soooo good, it is a problem for the person behind. I have to be careful sometimes, or I could get rear-ended.

The brakes on the 135i are huge, with six-piston calipers up front! I suspect they will be a lot like the Porsche brakes.

TM

tagman

May would be a perfect time. The start of perfect convertible weather. It doesn't get much better than that!

Yeah, I think they made a good call to release it early enough. For me and you, however, convertible season is already here. I've had the top down on the 911 many times already this month. It's been terrific.

Oops, I'm yaking too much... I've got to get my son to bed. Enjoy the rest of your rum cake!!! I wish my wife made some for me. I'm lucky if I get something from the Pillsbury doughboy. :sick: You are a lucky man!

TM

hpowders

Who could possibly be tailgating you in your 911 except perhaps another Porsche with equally fantastic brakes?

Nope. You are indeed the lucky one getting to choose between driving a 135i convertible or 911. And then there's the MDX. You have a great life, TM! Enjoy!

tagman

Even the glorious 911 gets stuck in California traffic from time to time. No one here is exempt. It's a requirement.

edit: Thanks for the nice words.

TM

hpowders

I try to avoid rush hour driving whenever possible. Sometimes though, we want to have dinner in a restaurant that might be 30 miles away and we can't avoid the evening rush. One good thing about all BMWs I have driven is that you can take your foot off the pedals and creep along at 5 mph at a slow steady crawl without worrying about an acceleration surge. Fantastic engines and transmissions.

Have a good night.

tagman

Wow. There is that much torque at idle? That's very cool for an auto-magic tranny.

Yes, get some rest. I forget sometimes that it is three hours later there than here.

TM

hpowders

One of my favorite things about BMWs-you can coast for quite a long time at about 5 mph just by providing a gentle touch of acceleration with absolutely no indication that the vehicle wants to increase its speed. Works great in rush hour traffic when moving at a snail's pace. I keep my feet off the pedals and relax. I call this coma cruise control.

Of course this will not work so well going up a steep incline, but on level ground or downhill, it's cool. I laugh when I try this with airport rentals-they always increase in speed on their own. Never have been able to duplicate this BMW experience.

Mr. H

circlew

That is why the LS is acknowledged as the #1 luxury car in the world. Period.

You need to get in a Bentley from time to time to cure your Lexus affinity!

Regards,
OW

carnaught

There was a poster a few pages back who was worried about taking a chance on a BMW vehicle and he mentioned that he would rather go with a Lexus. BMW has really cleaned up its image and most of their vehicles are reliable. One source I follow has a disappointing report on the 2008 5 Series, however-a bit too many trips to the dealer. BMW had better watch it with all that fancy schmancy new technology. It can come back and bite 'em!



Then, there are some of us quiet folk who never see the (BMW) dealer. I now have almost 10,000 mi. in 7 mos. and my '08 535 is optioned with most of the "fancy schmancy" technology offered by BMW. The electronic gear selector and turn signal stalk happen to be ergonomic once you get used to them which is lightning fast. When I drive my Infiniti or MB, I find the switch gear and turn signal use bulky, awkward and dated. The newer iDrive is cool too with its 6 buttons which you can preset. If you just have your finger up to the buttons without pressing them, it shows what preset you've selected on the screen; very nice.

BTW, after six previous Lexus', this is my third BMW since 2003, and I had the same positive experience with the other two.

esf

But it just doesn't make sense. They won't sell if they price it that high.

I have a feeling that due to the twin-turbo V6 (if it happens), the S4's price will drop by a few grand, leaving the RS4 free to move down to the $55-62K range.

But it's still the 3.2 that's messing everything up. If there weren't four "A4" engine variants (and soon to be five--diesel), everything would be easier. The 3.2 should die, I still believe.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

I drove both the 2006 Cayenne S and the 2008 Cayenne S. The power didn't make a noticeable difference, IMO, and the Porsche salesman was going on about how the Cayenne was so much "sportier" than the BMW while I was hearing a quieter exhaust note and feeling less feedback from the wheel. It's just too heavy to be the Porsche of SUVs, I'm afraid. Yes, the X5 is just as heavy, but somehow BMW sprinkled their magical fairy dust on the beast and made it work.

I also think the X5 looks dated and feels dated.

I also respectfully disagree.

I don't understand how that could possibly be true when the X5 is much newer (an update is only an update on the Cayenne), and the Porsche's interior has a severely dated design. I had always wondered why the magazines were writing that the Cayenne was so luxurious. I was not very impressed, though it was (thank God) more luxurious than the Lexus RX330 we had before.

Performance? I have a feeling that this falls underneath the personal taste.

I agree, and that's where it should be left.

Exhaust note? With sports exhaust, nothing sounds like a Cayenne. Even without it, I still don't think the BMW even falls in the same realm.

I didn't drive a sports exhaust-equipped model, but as to the standard exhaust... absolutely not. The X5 was simply louder, but at the same time it sounded better (more refined).

More spacious? You have a 3rd row in that BMW that takes up space and is only suitable for Lilliputians.

Actually, I don't. You know you can get the X5 without the third row, right? :sick:

Free maintenance? Well, nothing is free.

True, but at the same time, the X5 4.8i is significantly less money than a comparably equipped Cayenne S.

Perhaps I was too aggressive in my statement, but I stand by it. I gave the Porsche a fair chance. I just don't think it's deserving of my $75K.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

BMW would not have been able to achieve its current exalted level of success if it was building vehicles that consistently break down.

YES!

I completely agree. That is all that has to be said. There's no arguing with it.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

I sense trolling.

...

houdini, please hold onto your sanity. For the sake of all of us.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

hpowders

Don't get me wrong, I have had nothing but positive BMW experiences also since my association with them began in 1993, except for the weak battery a few months ago.

I am just expressing dismay at BMW insisting on incorporating new, awkward technology which does nothing to improve upon what has worked well for years.

Nobody beams with pride more than I when I take the 545i out for a spin. It has been a wonderful privilege to drive one of the world's great cars over the last 31 months. I will be putting on new Contis this Tuesday. $800 well spent.

I'm totally down with the BMW driving experience, which I have expressed as total fanaticism in many of my previous 3946 posts.

I was impressed by how simple everything was to use in the Acura MDX. No surprises.

carnaught

I am just expressing dismay at BMW insisting on incorporating new, awkward technology which does nothing to improve upon what has worked well for years.

BMW has improved little things which enhance the over all experience. Examples: simply pressing a button to put yourself into "park" on the shift when you pull into your garage or parking space is a joy, not awkward. I notice small tweaks which have improved the iDrive between my '06 3 Series and the '08. With start-up, not having to press the iDrive button to bipass a liability message allows you to go directly to the last used screen, nice. The reconfigured wood and leather appointments on the inside door panels and lower console look and feel more luxurious..... ..etc., etc.

(Howard, I know I'm preachin' to the choir.)

hpowders

Why push the Steptronic shifter forward to go backward? Pushing a separate button when putting the vehicle in park? Turn signal indicators that resist going up and down?

Why use a card and a button for a 2 step start when twisting a key requires only one step? Of course for "only" $500-$1000 extra bucks, BMW will set things up for the push-button one step start. :sick:

Sorry, but I find these "improvements" counter-intuitive.

For me, BMW has been draining away much of the fun of driving their vehicles, for no other reason that I can see except to try and be different. It is a disturbing trend and I wish they would stop. They are losing folks like me.

carnaught

Why push the Steptronic shifter forward to go backward? Pushing a separate button when putting the vehicle in park? Turn signal indicators that resist going up and down?

Why use a card and a button for a 2 step start when twisting a key requires only one step? Of course for "only" $500-$1000 extra bucks, BMW will set things up for the push-button one step start.

In defense, some stick shift configurations go forward to go into reverse. On the electronic auto BMW shifter, what may seem contra-intuitive, is easily gotten used to.

The turn signals don't resist going up or down. They simply don't STAY up or down. In doing so, they don't require any change in effort or usage. After getting used to this, I find the regular turn signal stalks clunky and the BMW's superior. If you notice your signal is on and you want to turn it off (unlike our snowbird visitors to the North), you can push it slightly in either up or down direction to turn it off. This is super easy and convenient when you get used to it. The push button start with a key amounts to an extra step not unlike the Honda S2000. I have the Comfort Access which works great and should be standard.

Again, while these things on paper or first use my be awkward, with day to day use are a pleasure IMHO, and I miss them on my other cars. Mrs. Carnaught, who rarely drives the BMW, likes and appreciates them too.

bmlexus

What bothers me about BMW is not the reliability of its product, but the alarming (to me at least) increase in complicated technology where it is absolutely pointless:

1. The ridiculous, tedious steps one must use to change a radio station input through iDrive.

2. The new, ugly steptronic shifter where one has to push it forward to move the vehicle backward-absolutely counter-intuitive.

3. The idiotic turn signals which resist one's moving them up or down.

4. The retarded ignition system where one must insert a card in a slot and then press a button, thus requiring 2 steps instead of simply just being able to turn a key in one step.

I have been turned off by all this and will most likely bypass BMW for my next vehicle, thus ending a 15 year relationship.

Sadly, BMW has managed to severely offset driving pleasure with technological frustration. Hence, I'll test drive 'em, but I won't buy or lease 'em any more.

Those of you whizzing around in your X5's apparently have a lot more patience with this absurd, pointless technology than I have.

If you have been used to the BMW driving experience, I doubt whether you will be happy with Lexus. However, Lexus technology is refreshing compared to BMW's.

I do agree from what I have personally experienced from various test drives that the Lexus "experience" at the dealership is superior to BMW's.

Looks like my mission must now be to vault Acura into the top tier of automakers by July 2008!

WOW lots of dislikes

bmlexus

As for reliability by itself, the top ten makes are as follows according to CR:

1. Honda
2. Acura
3. Scion
4. Subaru
5. Toyota
6. Lexus
7. Infinity
8. Mitsubishi
9. Porsche
10, Buick

18. BMW
22. Audi
31. Volkswagen
33. Mercedes
36. Land Rover (Last Place)

bmw in 18 :confuse:

hpowders

I don't mean any of these changes are difficult. They just go against the grain and are unnecessary. I don't see the point.

I have the turn signals that don't stay up or down in the 2005 545i which by default were set to click 3 times in either direction. I went into iDrive and fixed it so the turn signals click as many or as few times as I want them to, which I find much more to my liking.

On the other stuff, let's just agree to disagree.

hpowders

Yes. Honda/Acura has made it to the top! Toyota/Lexus is no longer the paragon of reliability it once was.

(Small correction: It's "Infiniti", not "Infinity")

Don't panic about BMW being "18." What is 18 today could have been 3 or 4 ten years ago. It's all relative. Except for a few brands which continue to be in serious trouble with their quality control like Land Rover and Mercedes Benz, most automakers in 2008 are producing reliable vehicles.

If it wasn't for the turnoffs mentioned above, I would not hesitate in the least to lease my 4th consecutive BMW.

circlew

I think that is the best thing I love about my 330...it works flawlessly in DS at all sorts of rush hour speeds. One of the many things that enhance the drive. I am really impressed by this car. My shortfall is the comparison with earlier 3 series to understand the evolution.

I know there is nothing in the US competition that can meet or beat this to date.

They say the CTS.

Regards,
OW

blkhemi

Audi sent me the confirmation letter stating that my car has been accepted. I cherry picked through most options and color combos, hence my reasoning to be worried.

I went with the full leather dressed interior and black sideblades, with silver spares. Audi has 22 different wheel/tire combos. I went with the 19" "turbine" wheels with the staggered Michelin Sport Cup 3 tires.

I am absolutely overjoyed to know that it will come as designed.

circlew

To me, it's about the drive...all the little gizmo's are transparent.

The Car and Driver 10 Best for 2007 are:

* BMW 3-series
* Chevrolet Corvette
* Chrysler 300
* Honda Accord
* Honda Fit
* Infiniti G35
* Mazda MX-5
* Mazda Mazdaspeed3
* Porsche Boxster and Cayman
* Volkswagen GTI

blkhemi

Being the true Porsche fanatic he is, my brother just ordered his '09 911 Turbo Cab.

He went with a Dark Navy w/ light blue top, a HUGE departure from his silver or black only Porsche's of the past.

It will come fully dressed, including the "run-off" option that allows the powertrain to briefly run towards 500hp. As good as the newly revised Tip has reported to be, I wisely advised him against thaat 6300 buck proposition.

And as aforementioned, he is a true Porschephile, meaning he hates the Cayenne ever stepped foot on American soil. That is why his family hauler is a Range Rover S'chrgd.

atlas7

It's the same old story on this board, fierce brand loyalty and will use all methods to support their brand, while dismissing a competitive brand....Consumer Report most recent report...LS460 #1 Luxury Car, highest rated car ever,....Immediately the German partisans discredit CR.....But this post where C&D hails the BMW, I don't see people discrediting C&D, why is that, is it because it supports your German bias? This post is not directed specifically at circlew, just an observation of the board. Dollars to dougnuts, if CR gave MB or BMW the #1 Luxury Sedan, none of the German partisans would have discredited CR....Can't have it both ways.

jlbl

Hi, Tony.

I have been tangled in heavy work plus suffering a bad flue with high temperature. But there have been developments. (As I am not used with the technical English words, I apologize in advance for any bad translation.)

My choice has narrowed to two cars, which are currently at the dealer stock. I could own one of them tomorrow, if I decided to. Both cars are 335d Coupes. Both are similar to one another but for the color. One is painted in Monaco Blue and has Cream Beige Dakota leather upholstery. The other is Titanium Silver with Black Dakota leather seats. Both have Intense Black Color inner trims.

Both cars come with Sport package (seats, steering wheel, suspension, tires and wheels—yeah, it including RFT), Steptronic automatic transmission (first time I would own an aut. tranny :mad: ), Retractable headlight washers, Professional HD radio, iPod and USB adaptor, Windshield climatic comfort, Rain & light sensor, Electrically controlled exterior mirrors, Velours floor mats.

None of the colors is killing me. Monaco Blue furnishes the car with a too much senior aspect to my eye. Titanium Silver looks nicer to me, but my old E60 530d was Silver painted too (yet with another shadow). But they are right at hand now. We cannot wait months for a car to be built in Germany for us. May be Titan Silver will be eventually the color of our new car.

Specs. (I am sorry, I have not had the time for conversions to USA units):
1645 Kg; L6,4valves•cyl; 2993 cc; Bi-turbo; Common rail; CO2 177 gr•Km (UE4); 286hp@4440rpm; torque 580Nm@1750rpm; Max speed 250Km•h (autolmtd.); 0-61 miles 6.1 secs; urban consume 9.1 L•100Km; interurban consume 5.3 L•100Km. These consumes are slightly lower than the official ones published for my former 530d.

Regards,
Jose
PS: This poster will be followed by other on prices & negotiations.

tagman

That's just plain not true!

I know from my own perspective and in all my thousands of posts, I've NEVER cherry-picked anything from CR. I don't like CR no matter who they like or dislike!

TM

houdini1

Well I can believe that. Since CR is honest and unbiased their tests and surveys seldom if ever agree with your likes and dislikes!!

Hang in there Atlas7. Just be sure you have thick skin!!

circlew

OK,OK! Lexus 460 is the King...I just like the driving experience in the BMW. The quality is not on top like Lexus. But it is intoxicating in other ways.

I know others will agree with you.

My point was, any rag can generate ratings. It's your rating that matters.

Regards,
OW

clembo

I have to disagree, I am a fierce CR discreditor when it comes to cars, and I own German and Japanese luxury cars. It is just that CR has nothing to do with driving passion or performance. They use simple quality data to let their readers know stats on defect rates. That may be important to some folks but most of us who spend extra $ for the cars we like to drive do so for mainly irrational reasons. Read that to mean passion for nice cars.

I'll state again that CR chose Old Milwaukee as the Best Tasting Beer! Enough said.

Now enjoy the rest of your weekend, whether you choose Sushi or Schnitzel I hope everyone enjoys their Sunday. :shades:

carnaught

Acura's have got a way to go to equal or surpass Lexus and others, IMO. Whereas some of their models are nice looking, I can't get past some of their short comings. The cheap and hollow feeling of the car (compared to rock solid feeling of competitors), the poor wear their interior's show, the dominance of fwd, and the inevitable development of squeaks and rattles has me less than enthused. I found all of these in common with the three Acuras (bought new) that I owned and are in direct comparison to Jags, Lexus', MB's, BMW's, Infinitis and Audis I've owned.

That said, I do not doubt that Honda could do it with Acura if they wanted.

tagman

Thanks for suggesting I'm not honest, Houdini. You are apparently at your best once again.

If you weren't talking out of your lower rear body part, you'd remember that I own an MDX... Japanese, in case you forgot.

Thanks again for the insult.

TM