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  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Here are the pains.

    First big pain. Last week I calculated the MSRP (in USA BMW web site) of a 335i Coupe with specs alike to any of these 335d I posted above. It is 47,556 USA Dollars. Spain BMW official price of any of "my" 335d Coupes is 57,445 Euros!!! :confuse: :cry: :sick: . This price is to get the car hitting the road already loaded with all sort of regional and local taxes and "flies", however.

    A small bit of relief then came from the dealer's offer, which was about 48.900 €, all taxes included; that is, 15% under the Spain BMW recommended price. I would be happy with this offer (when I buy my former 530d I got a discount of 7.5%). I could get the car tomorrow, trading in my crashed car.

    But the second great pain is that the dealer said that, for them as buyers, the trade-in value of my crashed 530d would be only 18,000 € after repair (the repair having been paid by the insurance). OK, the car value before the crash was 30,000 €, but once crashed and repaired, it drops dramatically… but, so dramatically? I am sure the dealer will sell the repaired car well above those 18,000 € in the end, even if the car has a major accident documented in the legal paperwork.

    So, Wednesday last week I ask the dealer to make a new assessment of the prospective price of the repaired car; and I told the dealer I was prepared to pay 45,000 € for any of the 335d. They promised to have an answer by tomorrow afternoon.

    A new round of advice is officially opened and welcomed :blush: .

    Edit: Any comment on the Steptronic transmission? I feel Mr. H is quite happy, isn't that true?

    Regards,
    Jose
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    People driving behind me must really hate me as halfway down a block with a red light ahead I smoothly coast at an even, smooth 5 mph. Absolutely no sign of trying to lurch ahead faster from the engine or transmission.
    The only vehicles I have encountered that can do this are BMWs. Simply terrific!
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Actually, here you go.

    Audi A8:

    -Best in Class - Premium All Weather Sedan (New England Motor Press Assoc.)

    -Editors Most Wanted Sedan Over $60K (Edmunds)

    -2007 Recommended Award (Consumer Guide Automotive)

    -Bee's Best Bets: 2007 A8 for Best Prestige (Sacramento Bee)

    -Winner in the upper midsize and luxury class (Internet Auto Award)

    -Luxury class winner (Auto, motor und sport, reader poll for best cars)

    ----

    Obviously, none of these awards are the most prestigious the A8 has received, as they are the most recent. They are a fraction of the overall amount of awards the car has won in the last four years.

    An index of Mercedes-Benz S-Class awards is not readily available, but after typing in "mercedes s550 awards" on Google I was presented with an award from CNET, PC Magazine, the Excellence Award for safety (Popular Mechanics), the What Car? award, and an Automotive Design Award (Wheels magazine), among dozens more.

    So, I would say--with confidence--that most people would disagree.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    People here don't discredit Car & Driver magazine because it is one of the most highly respected publications about cars on the planet written by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. Enthusiasts post here.

    Consumer Reports is to put it mildly.... uhhh... "not." :blush:

    This is what Consumer Reports wrote about the highly-rated LS 460L in its November 2007 issue, page 70:

    "The Lexus.....steering lacked feedback, the car is not agile."

    As for me, give me the "lowly" BMW 535i rated a mere 78 points, ( 21 points lower than the LS 460L) but which happens to be extremely agile.

    If some nut is about to swerve into your lane, which vehicle do you think will give you a better chance of avoiding a serious accident? :shades:
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    :D:D:D

    Post pics!!!

    By the way... wouldn't you be happy getting an R8 in any color? I sure would. It is nice to get it to your specs, but I would take one in red with a blue sideblade.

    ...well, maybe not. But something like that.

    '80 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Yes! A lot of dislikes, but when you drive one, except for Porsche vehicles (excluding Cayennes) there is nothing like it for less than $100k.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Hang in there TM! Dodging the ridiculous builds character! ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Many years ago I purchased some common consumer products recommended by Consumer Reports. They were crap. That was the end of CR for me.

    And we still see Old Milwaukee as their best beer and McDonalds as their best coffee. Sheesh... Give me a break! :sick:

    Unbiased? OK, fine But they are unbiased idiots

    CR sucks.

    TM
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    CR rated Dunkin Doughnuts coffee highly a while back. I bought some, ground it up and promptly threw out the rest of the bag, taking a $4.99 loss.

    Silly me! It was THE BAG the coffee came in that was rated highly-"quite durable, swathed in rich-looking plastic. We found the interior of the bag impressive."
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I'm good. Life is terrific. Rum cake would help, though. :)

    Thanks!

    TM
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Hey, I'm a magician...not a ventriloquist!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,208
    Greetings:

    OW posted this in another forum, thought it would look good here:

    image

    He posted in response to my statement re: Jag XK. I want one. Anybody else?

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Heh! Heh! I know the feeling. ;)

    I will be heading down to the dealer late this month to check out the "1" Coupes.
    BMW is supposedly being very stingy with supply to NA. Leases will be in the 8% interest range. I do believe the 135i Coupe fairly well-loaded will lease for around $850 a month.

    The "1" Series, thus will be a much better buy (considering its relatively low MSRP) than a lease. I would expect interested consumers to pay MSRP for quite a while on the 135i with some movement off of MSRP by summer on the 128i.

    For me to take home one of these at the end of July, I would have to be absolutely ecstatic after driving them. I plan on driving both the 128i and 135i Coupes.
  • skarieskarie Member Posts: 78
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    But it just doesn't make sense. They won't sell if they price it that high.

    I have a feeling that due to the twin-turbo V6 (if it happens), the S4's price will drop by a few grand, leaving the RS4 free to move down to the $55-62K range.


    RS cars have always been very expensive, and they've always sold, at least the limited numbers that were available have sold. I don't think the RS buyer is somebody who says "Oh, this is just $5K too expensive, I guess I'll get the AMG". RS buyers are most likely Audi fanatics who are willing to pay whatever premium there is. There also is no AWD M or AMG. Audi has that market locked up.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I plan on driving both the 128i and 135i Coupes.

    That will be an exciting and fun day... I can't wait to hear all about it in about three weeks from now.

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    So, I would say--with confidence--that most people would disagree.

    The recent M-B ads that have touted the S-class as the choice among world leaders are not lying. The last thing I am is a M-B fan, but the S-class has ruled the luxury segment for a long time. It is still the choice for the world's elite.

    CR loves the LS460 because its reliable and the electronics are easy to use. That ultimately is all they really care about.

    In C&D's last major comparo, the rankings were:

    5th place: Lexus LS460
    4th place: Jaguar Super V8
    3rd place: BMW 750Li
    2nd place: Audi A8l
    1st place: M-B S550

    "Persuading the Lexus to negotiate our famous lane-change test was akin to driving a coach. When the vehicle-dynamics system (VDIM) is switched off — a "VSC off" light illuminates, making us wonder which acronym applies here — the LS460L indulges in long, wide slides. Leave the system on, and it still allows the car to get well out of shape before stepping in to confuse the driver.

    In normal twisty surrounds, the Lexus reverts to a safer understeering mien, squealing its all-season rubber and rolling like a dinghy in a squall when pushed hard. "

    "That's how good this new Benz is. Somehow, the car's engineers managed to combine a comfortable ride and roomy interior with great performance and an excellent driver experience. The seats are generous in size and comfort yet provide about as much support as you can stand, particularly when the active side bolsters are turned on and they grab you at every corner.

    If the steering is a tad less organic in nature than the Audi's or BMW's, it's not numb enough to spoil a great driving experience. The ease with which this big car can be wheeled around the suburbs is a measure of its unexpectedly nimble chassis."
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    He posted in response to my statement re: Jag XK. I want one. Anybody else?

    I have to say, I am rather smitten by the new XKR Portfolio.

    http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/february2008/jaguar-xkr-portfolio-7.jpg
    http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/february2008/jaguar-xkr-portfolio-2.jpg
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,620
    This is a fine post. (since) I agree with nearly all of it. Imagine. :D

    Seriously, many good points. I'm still plowing through the 100+ posts that have gathered over the past couple of days, but wanted to chime in here while I was still thinking of it.

    Appliances & high-dollar cars have almost nothing in common beyond reliability. Once reliability is out of the equation, CR is beyond irrelevant.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Sorry, I'm late in catching up with the posts here. Good response.

    It's obvious that you've made an informed decision. I think I was just a little struck by your initial statement. After you reponse, it looks like we see eye to eye. Many things are simply subjective and you have to go with your heart.

    Enjoy the BMW! I still think (in my biased manner) that the Cayenne is the superior SUV. :P

    -moo
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    "appliances and high-dollar cars have almost nothing in common beyond reliabiltiy."

    Maybe not .

    The trouble is that the latest versions of the "high-dollar cars" ARE applicances.

    I test drove an S550 yesterday in an effort to talk myself into one. I chose an S550 with the AMG Sports package. It was like driving a Buick. A very large, very vague Buick. Everything was electric over hydraulic so I never got the feeling of actually engaging anything. Supposedly, the M/B mouse is easier to use than the BMW I Drive but I challenge anyone to change radio stations easily or quickly. A back up camera is available as an option. All in all not much fun. Indeed just like a very complicated appliance.

    I truly don't know why anyone would buy one. I get the strong impression that most S Classes don't sell for much under 100K in MSRP and for 40K less there are some very nice sports sedans out there.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I could not agree with your post more. Mercedes has lost their way entirely. A big, bloated, overpriced wannabe Buick is a very good description. The big problem with that is that they are about ten rungs on the ladder below Buick in reliability.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I know both "1" Coupes will drive well. That's a given.
    I'm more curious to find out whether I fit.
    Reviewers say it's "snug". I will let you know.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Your impression of the S550 is not typical. It has been nearly universally praised for retaining much more "feel" than many of the other cars in its class.

    I strongly suspect that you are accustomed to and privileged to own vehicles that have much more engaging driving dynamics. By comparison, even the S550 could seem a little too soft for you.

    I am spoiled by my Porsche 997, and there isn't much that feels terrific by comparison.

    If you think the S550 is vague, you should drive a Lexus LS. It is as if you are steering a remote control device... the steering wheel feels almost totally disconnected from the road.

    The real "problem" (one I wish I had) is that you are now hooked on R8-level driving, and you are spoiled and ruined for life! ;)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    This is a fine post. (since) I agree with nearly all of it. Imagine.

    Seriously, many good points.


    Thanks Steve. :)

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    "Snug" isn't exactly something that sounds like it would work for you... but as you suggest, you will find out and let us know. I am also curious.

    TM
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Good synposis Tagman. Reliability is this area is not a reason to necessarily choose one premium brand over another. It is a highly over exaggerated talking point which sells magazines and gives Lexus an undeserved recommendation. Every carmaker is going to release some lemons. It is those that get stuck with those lemons that scream and cry over their lot. It goes without saying. A bad experience will always be magnified over a good experience. I have owned ten Audis and 4 MBs in this category. NO problems with any of my Audis or extremely minor ones that are not worthy of mention. The MBs have also been overall very good except for one S-Class which lived up to to its reputation of electrical bugaboos.
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    I have concocted a master plan: Audi and Porsche should split off along with Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti, creating the ultimate-mega-luxury-super Porsche/Audi car group. Audi should only use its own platforms and the cars should not be available in FWD; preferably only AWD (they want to be different from BMW), but RWD is more than acceptable.

    VW should be left in the cold along with Skoda and SEAT because they obviously have no idea what they're doing.


    Sounds like a good plan. Audi and Porsche are more closely related anyway. Bentley and Lambo are engineered to a large degree by Audi and the upcoming R4 and Boxster will share a similar platform with one Quattro of course and the other RWD. Also, the next generation Bentley Flying Spur and Audi A8L will be sister cars with Audi now in charge of Bentley development of the new Bentley Flying Spur and other areas of Bentley. I mean just compare the interior of the A8L W12 to the current Flying Spur and the A8L W12 definitely is superior inside. Just add the Bentley W12 Bi-turbo with 550 bhp to the A8L W12 and you hit the sweet spot wth 100 extra horsepower!
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Pardon me for asking but are you of East Prussian heritage?

    I know you mentioned that one of your family members owned a 1935 Horch Pullman (the very few Pullmans that existed back then were owned almost solely by Germans especially in the East Prussian area that is now called Poland)


    Actually, my father was of Jewish descent growing up in what was then Sudentenland bording on south east Prussia (or what was annexed from Poland). They owned substantial liquor manufacturing businesses that served them well prior to WWII with the establishment until persecution began by the [non-permissible content removed] of them in the later stages of the War resulting in a loss of about 80% of my father's relatives to concentration camps and extermiination. The liquor plants were destroyed by the German armies while retreating back into Germany proper so the Soviets could not get at them. My father as a boy remembers the Russians sucking on the snow to get as much of the spilled Vodka out of it when the Vodka was destoryed. My father's immediate family was saved because the Soviets wanted their Vodka and liquor. My mother's parents were Polish landowners having huge land holdings where they had lumber mills in Southern Poland bordering on Silesia and Germany. So, yes they were in the area as well The Pullman was I was told was hidden during WWI and then later found by the communists who turned it into a fire truck and eventually destroyed. I've seen some pictures of it before WWII with my grandfather and great grandfather standing next to it when they first delivered to them.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,208
    I think you have just ruined me as far as a base XK goes... :sick:

    Wow.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Back to you Jose

    I wish you `good fortune` with this situation, and your English is far superior to my Spanish.....I would think your insurance company should take into consideration the hit for the wreck.....If they don`t then it is because I don`t know your local customs....As I learned from Hpowders, apparently a lease is where bmw will help you...I would imagine if you got a reasonable lease, and then purchased the car at the end of the lease, you may save money..I further know that here in the states, car sales are weakening, so that may also play into your favor.....I do know that if I could afford to trade that I would--there have been plenty of times in the past that I couldn` do anything--- Would the bmw 3 be big enough for your needs??What would a repaired car like yours bring in the used market -over there-? Hard decision for you.....Further I am sorry for you getting the flu bug...Many people I know over here have it right now or have had it...Tony
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,620
    Thanks for posting here.

    Reading (and even being interested in) history of the era (considered odd by others, in my experience) is one thing, but having (or listening in on) discussions with those who were truly involved is vastly more interesting.

    No matter our backgrounds, it sounds like we all love cars in our own ways.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    No matter our backgrounds, it sounds like we all love cars in our own ways.

    And THAT, after all, is the point! :shades:

    Well said, Steve!
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    A fascinating story, and thank you for it Tony
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Thank you for the compliment, and also thank you for sharing a touching story about your family's history and your heritage.

    I must admit that history was a difficult subject for me as a youngster. It always seemed to be based upon the dates of one war to the next, and the horrible ways that people and countries treated each other... and for some reason that bothered me enough that I didn't want to read my history books. Now, of course, I realize those were/are valuable lessons.

    Thanks again! :)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I must apologize to you. I thought for some reason that Hemi had posted those remarks about the S550, and it made absolutely no sense to me. Now I realize it was you that made that post and I am very relieved.

    I thought Hemi had lost his mind for a moment. (but apparently you did...LOL. ;) )

    Anyway, my bad. Very sorry. :blush:

    TM
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Regarding your reference to me Tony, one has to be careful at this time. As I predicted here months ago, the time to lease BMW vehicles was "NOW!" (meaning "THEN!"). I was concerned that with the Euro appreciating so much against the American dollar, the good old days were just about over. There was no way BMW could continue to offer fire-sale leases. (See my post #6590 from October 3, 2007).

    I leased my 545i for a 2.4% rental charge back in 2005. The cheapest BMW lease at this time comes with over 4% interest. A comparable 550i comes in at 5.88% interest.

    The new "1" Series may rent for over 8% from what I have heard, but this has not been officially confirmed. One thing's for sure: a BMW 135i lease will be no bargain!

    As I mentioned to TM, anyone in the market for a BMW 135i would be much better off buying the vehicle. Lease this at your peril!

    My next prediction: Look for BMW to begin building more of its vehicles right here in NA.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I've heard they are similar to the feeling in a Z-4. I tried th Z 4 and while comfy compared to the 3'er, it was livable for me. In comparison, I sat in a Solstice and that was way to uncomfortable for me.

    Regards,
    OW
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Well, at 6'2", I'm not exactly getting my hopes up. In a photo I saw, it looked like the guy driving the 135i had his knees just under his neck!

    The good thing about everyone scampering to be the first kid on the block in a 135i Coupe is that better deals on the 3 Series could be in the works by summer.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    In a photo I saw, it looked like the guy driving the 135i had his knees just under his neck!

    The Z4 was livable for me at 5'10". The doors are much closer but the seat adjustments afforded long fore/aft room. We'll just have to see what you feel when you meet your first 135i!

    ...better deals on the 3 Series could be in the works by summer.

    You betcha. I will look at both for my next lease. Interesting that the first indications by many posters is that the 1'er leases will be very dear! If they make the 3'er a screaming bargain, all the better.

    I'm sure BMW will take advantage of a one-off class that no competition has anticipated.

    Regards,
    OW
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    If you think the S550 is vague, you should drive a Lexus LS. It is as if you are steering a remote control device... the steering wheel feels almost totally disconnected from the road

    Really there is no road feel?
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Yes. Honda/Acura has made it to the top! Toyota/Lexus is no longer the paragon of reliability it once was.

    Yes they keep getting better
    (Small correction: It's "Infiniti", not "Infinity")

    thanks for the correction but it was the original poster mistake.

    Don't panic about BMW being "18

    Not to panic about bmw being 18 :surprise: :confuse: :sick:

    If it wasn't for the turnoffs mentioned above, I would not hesitate in the least to lease my 4th consecutive BMW

    So u also decided to move to another brand for ur next car.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Really there is no road feel?

    Last year I test drove both the S550 and the new LS460L. I did thorough test drives and carefully looked over the cars. I reported my findings here on the forum.

    I was very pleased with how quiet and smooth the LS was, and I was also surprised at just how silky smooth its tranny shifted, but I was disappointed in its long lag-time as it searched way too long for a lower gear when attempting to downshift (as would happen in a "kickdown" passing maneuver).

    I also commented on the lack of positive feedback from the road through the steering wheel, and that it felt disconnected, as if I was driving by remote control.

    There were other things I liked and disliked about the vehicle, but if you have driven the LS460(L), then you should know that in comparison to the other vehicles in its class, the steering is somewhat numb and the driving dynamics are terribly uninspiring. Very quiet and smooth indeed... and quite frankly, disconnected and boring. It's simply a matter of personal preference. For a luxury car, smooth and quiet is very nice... and Lexus does that best, IMO. (But to its credit, the S-Class is also supremely quiet and smooth.) In the end, I personally insist on more feedback and road feel in the steering wheel than the Lexus provides.

    Hope that answers your question. :)

    TM
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi Mr H

    Those were good times and you took advantage of good deals....I just learned from you, and in this case Jose has a damaged car, and I thought that if he were to try and persue a lease, with a reasonable interest rate It might be of help --getting a new car--- He could possibly lease for a while and then buy the car for the duration of his ownership....Just a thought.....He is intersted in the three bmw, so maybe in Spain he could get a good deal.....They apparently have taxes over there that I know nothing about.....Jose if you read this----maybe the extra loss from the depreciation on the car could be taken on your income tax----casuelty loss?---Tony
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I think you have just ruined me as far as a base XK goes..

    The standard XK is still very nice, and I think its integrated fog lights look a bit better than the XKR's.

    http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2006/7/4/3060704.001/1008big.jpg
    http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2006/6/30/3060630.001/1095big.jpg
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I am so undecided as to what to do next. My 545i lease runs out on July 31st.
    If I lease another BMW, I want the best value and I think that will be a 3 Series, the 328i sedan in particular.

    Car and Driver raved about the 328i sedan in the January, 2008 issue in a sport sedan comparo, giving it a perfect 25 in "fun to drive." I have never seen them go that high before. They called it "better to drive than most sports cars." It's plenty fast too. I have a lot of wasted, unused power in the 545i.

    I would have absolutely no shame in turning in the 545i and driving away in a 328i. In fact I would welcome the sharper handling of the 328i.

    I will drive the 328i sedan as well as the 135i and 128i Coupes at the end of the month. We'll see what happens.

    TM told me I should get what I want and have fun. MR. T seconded the motion.
    They are both good people and I respect and value their advice. :)

    So....when is your lease up?
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Relax! Take a deep breath. BMW's are reliable. Check out CR if you must. Only 1 vehicle, the 6 Series was deemed unreliable.

    I'm not necessarily moving anywhere else. Folks here know that I can change my mind 8 times in a week. I went from perhaps buying the 545i at lease end to getting an Acura MDX to leasing a 328i, in about a week of posting.

    Some guy said the leather in the MDX wears too easily and is not up to luxury car standards. That is scaring me away from the MDX. It's not the first time I heard this.

    With BMW you get free maintenance covered for your entire lease. If you ever have a problem, you press a button in the car and you are Bluetooth connected with road side assistance, which will send help within an hour- you get this by checking off the "premium package" as an option.

    Really, not to worry! BMW's have come a long way in quality control. The sales figures over the last 5 years bear this out.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Good thoughts Mr T! The problem is who knows what kind of leasing deals are offered in Spain? Jose may benefit on BMW leases since Spain uses Euros. Quien sabe? ;)
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