Luxury Lounge

blkhemi

If only it were that simple. Not long ago, Toyota was touting their ability to overtake GM in the not too distance future. Well that plan has been put on hold because the bean counters in Japan aren't quite as adventurous as the domestic and German makers are finacially. And rightfully so.

But just as the Big 3 have felt the punch, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have had ripples too. And until crude gets under 100 bucks a barrel, people stop losing their homes, and the dollar overcomes its losses to the once laughable Euro and Yen, then none of them will be alright.

BTW: According to Laneve and Lutz, the VOLTs applications will be spread a multitude of future brands to recoup the cost, and therefore make it a more affordable proposition.

Even in this rocky era we're in, I will not throw GM under the bus. The other 2, now that remains to be seen.

tagman

Exactly... Toyota knows that if the MPG gets very good, the SUV will be king all over again.

So... they already have their Highlander hybrid. This vehicle can undergo a major upscale workover and be rebadged as a Lexus. The RAV4 can become a hybrid.

The new Lexus RX will be fine in the hybrid version... in fact I am hoping the hybrid model also gets the 7-passenger capacity, so I can get one for my wife... but the fuel economy must be very good, or I'll get a diesel instead.

TM

tagman

Unfortunately, Hemi, the Volt is a subsidized vehicle and will not be profitable for the forseeable future, and therefore will be too little, too late. GM can't count on the Volt to save their [non-permissible content removed].

They need a very serious global view with world-class leading technology. They need some of the highest fuel-efficiency and best looking cars. They really need to come through, or they are in serious trouble. And, given the urgent nature of the competition, I hightly doubt that GM will pull through easily, if at all.

Same goes for Chrysler, who has essentially nothing to fall back upon.

Toyota will be fine. A few bumps and bruises as they readjust to a new fuel-conscious economy, but they will prevail. Not only will they prevail, but Toyota and Honda will emerge as leaders. Nissan and Mazda will be in the game solid, but not the same as Toyota and Honda, IMO.

The Germans will be late to the game, but ultimately will build a few better or alternative mouse traps. The question will be if it will all be too late? I suspect that they will do OK because of their market demographics... a very loyal and qualified group.

A surprise that is going to come to American will be the vehicles from Tata Motors. They are already about to release (not to our shores... yet) a diesel hybrid! They are a serious contender down the road, and we will see their badge in the future on our shores.

I still don't know enough about the cars to come from China, but I suspect that over the next decade they will present themselves in some sort of inceasing numbers.

At this point, of course, NEVER rule out Hyundai!! I can guarantee that they will come out swinging strong, and they will be successful as hell.

TM

bmlexus

for the time being... It's been a long time coming, but I finally got my palms around the steering wheel of a Race Silver Audi R8! While the wife and I went on a 2 month "world tour" by boat and air, my daughter was patiently awaiting the call from our dealer to inform us that the car had arrived. It is definitely a joy.
My wife is also awaiting her new ride. Since the XKR is in Jag heaven(RIP), she will be going with a new SL.

First of all congratulations on your new R8

Hope to get a good review from you.

When will be the new SL coming?SL63?

R8 and the new SL together you give us a good comparison review here.

I remember long time back you were planning to test the RRS did you?

bmlexus

Congratulations on your 135i once again.

Went with the stick?

At this point, of course, NEVER rule out Hyundai!! I can guarantee that they will come out swinging strong, and they will be successful as hell

I agree Hyundai cars are getting better.

tagman

Yes, went with the stick on the 135i convertible. The car is stunning. Everything is perfect!

Glad you agree with me regarding the future of Hyundai. To me, it looks very bright.

TM

lexusguy

It's absolutely beautiful, isn't it? I think it's the best-looking car in the world!

I'd second that. No Ferrari looks as good as the Gran Turismo, especially not the new California. The DBS comes pretty close, but the Maserati is just stunning.

esf

:confuse: That wasn't my point. I think it's ridiculous that Toyota offers seven SUVs (eight if you count the Highlander Hybrid as an extra), six of which are gas guzzlers, and can still get away with being known as a "green" brand. People can make fun of GM all they want for offering only minor advantages in their hybrid Tahoe/Escalade/Yukon, but I don't see Toyota with a full-size hybrid SUV.

I think Honda has got it right. They have only three SUVs, and will probably dump the Element, because two is really all they need. It's about efficiency, not just size, and I'm not talking gas mileage. The Pilot can seat seven or eight as well as any larger truck-based SUV.

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

esf

'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet

lexusguy

They need a very serious global view with world-class leading technology. They need some of the highest fuel-efficiency and best looking cars. They really need to come through, or they are in serious trouble. And, given the urgent nature of the competition, I hightly doubt that GM will pull through easily, if at all.

Too many models, too many divisions, too many dealers. GM must solve this problem in order to have any hope of survival. 19% market share and eight brands to juggle leads to nowhere but disaster. Killing Hummer isn't nearly enough. Pontiac, Buick, GMC, Saturn, and Saab all have to go.

tagman

Well, regarding GM divisions, I could see a domestic GM that looks like Chevrolet/Cadillac/GMC. (I still see the merits of keeping GMC).

Esf, I got your point... I think you missed mine, maybe... You should not forget that SUVs are still desireable... It's their gas mileage that is not!! And that's a problem. Toyota is in a position with all those SUVs to address the situation. They can consolidate their lines down to several hybrid SUVs unlike anyone else can, IMO.

Yes, Honda is smart with their SUVs, but don't give them too much credit where it isn't due,.. I am especially impressed with their CR-V, but their Acura RDX sucks too much gas for it's size and their MDX could stand some better quality of luxury, also IMO. And their Element you mentioned is just too goofy.

TM

circlew

The Volt...

I know what you're thinking. "Did GM fail for six decades or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is 2008 and Toyota, the most powerful car maker in the world, WILL blow your market dominance clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

Regards,
OW

blkhemi

No 63/65 for the Mrs., unfortunately. She said the XKR was to powerful as I was. And she now knows what horsepower and torque means.

If it were my choice, I'd go back with the Jag. But she has been a MB driver for the better part of 40 years, so SL550 it is in the usual black.

Of a different note, she initially thought I was a lunatic for buying a 145K car with a mismatched black painted sideblade(I did order the matching silver one also, just for kicks). But when the car arrived at our address, she says "my what a gorgeous car"! Women: You gotta love 'em!

cdnpinhead

Thanks for one of the best posts I've read in weeks.

dhamilton

my part to help the economy by leasing a BMW 335 sedan.

Stick [3 pedals as God intended]

Premium

Cold Weather

Sport

Ipod

Sat Radio

Hi-Def radio

Loving it so far.

Congrats Jose, and any other Spanish posters. Spain was brilliant.

Hemi, when I was selling cars at Audi, we had a customer put a Milltech exhaust on. It sounded good already, but with the new pipe, it sounded like your garden variety thunder of the God's. AMAZING!!!!!

Congrats on the vert Tag, the blown I6 is just amazing.

dewey

Congratulations for Spain!

Interesting book. I went to Amazon and ordered it.

Cognitive sciences is being closely followed in the investment area in order to explain why highly intelligent professional investors can be so STUPID and wreckless with regards to their investment choices.

"Fooled by Randomness" and "Black Swan " are two fascinating books that deals with investments and other areas where human stupidities are evident. Though the writer himself is not a cognitive scientist his observations do confirm their findings.

dewey

Congratulations DHamilton for your choice in cars. I cant think of a better car to have than a BMW335i (at least within its price range)

Congratulations Blkhemi for your R8. One rare gem, I haven't even seen one yet.

A recession in the USA? At least not in this forum.

.

lexusguy

Re: The Volt

"And how, I ask [Volt chief engineer Andrew Farah] over coffee early one February morning in Detroit, is it going… The car, he says, is 10 weeks behind the original schedule. Any more slippage, and the 2010 deadline will be history. Even if no more time is lost, he will have only eight weeks to test the underbody, the car's structural base. Is that enough time? He answers indirectly. In some cars, he says, testing the underbody can take a year." And the mood permeates the entire program: "At the end of February, when I returned to the technical center, the picture looked different. December's ebullience had given way to a sense of strain that was evident even to a tourist. 'We currently are at the limit of our stretch,' one senior battery engineer told me."

Not good.

Full article

dewey

Assume this is the 1990s and no one can predict the future. Oil barrel prices are close to ten dollars and many economists are predicting oil prices will fall further. Americans just cant get enough of big and bigger SUVs and trucks. Dealer inventories are low on such big trucks which generates the biggest of big profit margins in the industry.

What would a shrewd auto firm do with the above situation? The same thing the Big 3 did ofcourse!

What would a not so shrewd auto firm do? Develop a fuel efficient hyrbid while oil prices are so low and fuel efficiency is ranked 49th among consumer priorities while nicely designed vanity mirrors are ranked as a 48th priority? Sell it at a price which produces not profits but instead a hefty loss? Design it as a hatchback which happens to be reviled and hated in the US market? Doesn't sound shrewd at all but Toyota did it anyways.

laurasdada

I would shed a tear if Saab was to leave us. At least the Saab my family knew pre-GM...

There is one GT at the Ferrari/Maser dealer down the road, in black. Mildly attractive. As Catherine Deneuve was mildly attractive...

circlew

It will take longer but I am confident that the technology will unfold right on time....when it's ready. To predict that in an obvious stretch-goal move was the error. But I applaud the break from the "top down only" initiative. Toyota isn't perfect but their strategy is quite good. My bet is they win the race for first to market plug-in. My other bets with GM were not quite so good but I am learning!

GM will need to parallel that "shop floor" philosophy with current generation cars.

Again I say to Lutz, "Do you feel Lucky, Punk?"


Regards,
OW

circlew

Just a quick peek!







Regards,
OW

lexusguy

Doesn't sound shrewd at all but Toyota did it anyways.

The other key difference between Prius then and Volt now is that Toyota could afford to lose huge sums of money on every one. Now the Prius brand has strength equivalent to Google. GM is burning through $1 billion+ a month, and they haven't even started loss-making on Volt sales. Toyota still makes more money in a year than GM's market cap, and they are inching ever closer to matching GM's US market share.

Toyota and Honda's experience in the JDM where Prius development began, and its going to continue to help them hugely over here. Take the Fit for example. Honda had it sitting around for years, they bring it over here and its an instant smash hit. Toyota and Honda have loads of Fit-like products over there, they just need to bring em here. The only place where the domestics are even remotely competent in small cars is in Europe, and that just isn't a workable solution (see: Astra).

dewey

The Prius brand has the strength of Google but the whole of Toyota is worth less than Google itself.

Google is worth today 168 billion dollars
Toyota is worth today 144 billion dollars

Google's profits are a very small fraction of Toyota's humungous profits and already advertisers and the media are worried about sending more business to Google due to their close to monopoly strength in search. The latest data indicates that the days of rapid search growth by users are over. Sounds like another Silicon Valley bubble story to me.

jlbl

Congratulations
Thei're very welcome! (akin to those of Dewey)

Enjoy your new 335!

Regards,
Jose

circlew

Exactly right! AFAIAC, another bubble just like oil!

Regards,
OW

anthonyp

Hola Jlbl

I trust your bmw is preforming to your satisfaction? as is the splendid victory your country demonstrated....I don`t know if you have Sirius, or X M over there, but I have decided that it isn`t worth it to me...I use to enjoy looking for stations on long drives, and when I found one it was more appreciated for the brief time I could pick it up....I want to put more fun back in driving, and that is going to be one of the things I do, but will keep CD.....I still don`t have a car in mind that catches my attention--but do think the Prius or something like it would be fun, at least mentally at this stage....Again congradulations, and I saw a tv show about the tunnel you are digging under Madrid...Quite a project, and with bad luck it could turn out like the tunnel to the airport in Boston...Tony

tagman

This is off-topic, I am aware, but... it's soooooooooo beyond imagination that I suggest that anyone who is curious enough to google "hadron". You won't regret it.

We are within two months of phase1.

The scope of this is unreal. I'd post a link, but I'm mobile today.

TM

clembo

Tony - The tunnel project in Boston aka The Big Dig took more than bad luck to screw up. Give our state government and our local politicians credit, it took them years of hard work to devise and execute this plan so poorly that every taxpayer in the country was negatively impacted. Maybe a little luck but a lot of effort.

bmlexus

According to an in-house research done by Mitsubishi, the brand’s Lance Evolution X is stealing new customers from luxury Japanese and German brands. Why? Mitsubishi says the Lancer Evolution X offers a ’strong value proposition and excellent driving characteristics.’

The study showed that 38 percent of new customers opting for the Twin Clutch SST have been from luxury German brands while 31 percent have been from luxury Japanese brands. As for the manual transmission, 40 percent were returning Evo owners while 19 percent were from German brands and 20 percent from Japanese.

If that wasn’t surprising enough for you, Mitsubishi says that several supercars have been traded for the new Lancer Evolution X. One dealer handed over a Lancer Evolution X FQ-300 SST and a check for £90,000 ($179,320 USD) for a Ferrari F430. :surprise:



I don't care how much anyone likes the Evo X, you don't trade in an Ferrari for a mitsubishi ever!! Strange!!!

Well someone did. Wonder if he is going to miss his ferrari :P :shades:

If he sees another ferrari driver on road and tells hey I just traded my ferrari today which was just like yours

jlbl

"hadron"

TM, I understand you are refering to the CERN Large Hadron Collider, don't you? Yes it is truly amazing. :surprise: That's the point at where life truly resembles fiction.

Regards,
Jose

tagman

TM, I understand you are refering to the CERN Large Hadron Collider, aren't you?

Excellent, Jose.

And, the exciting part of this is that we are all very close to the first major collisions later this year. The speculations with regards to the consequences of such enormous "experiments" are rampant, of course, with some (vast minority) scientists even suggesting that we are potentially within months of blowing up the earth. I have my doubts about that, but I know nothing in comparison to the thousands of physicist's brilliant minds (or mad scientists... LOL) behind this collossal multi-national project.

That's the point at where life truly resembles fiction.

Absolutely. And... if as a result of these experiments, they can actually understand gravity and incorporate it into a unified theory, then life as we know it would change.

Just imagine, Jose. Just imagine.

TM

tayl0rd

...some (vast minority) scientists even suggesting that we are potentially within months of blowing up the earth. ...

Well, during the Manhattan Project, some scientists were afraid that they'd ignite the atmosphere and burn it away. Everybody knows how that "theory" turned out.

dewey

bsolutely. And... if as a result of these expreiments, they can actually understand gravity and incorporate it into a unified theory, then life as we know it would change.

Brilliant indeed! Now if only the brilliant minds in the auto industry can introduce an exciting car with maximum performance that consumes minimal gas and is also priced so that it can be sold in high volume! At least that wont blow up the earth.

tagman

Brilliant indeed! Now if only the auto industry can invent an exciting car that does not consume so much gas and is priced so that it can be sold in high volume! At least that wont blow up the earth.

LOL... Toyota is our friend. Honda is our friend. Big oil?.... Not our friend.

More on the HADRON...

photo gallery

Here's a typical article spawning fear...

link title

TM

circlew

Heck, the ZR-1's recent drive around the' Ring just blew up Nissan's world! Talk about particles colliding!

Bang, Bang, GT-R!!

link title

Regards,
OW

jlbl

Hi Anthony

I am very satisfied with my 335d now that her engine is progressively being broken-up and thus delivering a quicker trottle response. Until recently I found her 'lazy' until the foot. I'm still missing the stick however; I am constantly changing between D, S and M settings. But overall her riding is a joy. Much more precise than my former bimmer.

As you, I'd rather concentrate in driving instead of listening to the radio when journeying. If only, I use to hear to a great music station, which keeps always tuned no matter how miles you are driving over here. This can be troublemaker, however. Music becomes too exciting to me. Then an exhilarating blend of rithm & driving can pop up in my mood. Under such a mystic influence, I can be aware neither of my speed nor the cops. Only aware of the road bents to pass through. Very dangerous.

Madrid tunnels are stunning, but I don't really know if it is for good or bad.
link title
As a German traffic expert who came some years ago to find a solution to Madrid traffic-jams said: Well... Madrid traffic solution is not so difficult to find... You should keep everything as it is, because the more improvements you might introduce in the traffic net, the more cars would enter it to ruine the result.
The only solution seems to foreseen the problems, but this is usually not the politician way of thinking. A problem does not exists until it is not a big problem.

Regards,
Jose

jlbl

And... if as a result of these experiments, they can actually understand gravity and incorporate it into a unified theory, then life as we know it would change.

At LHC they would be able to create mass directly from pure energy and vice-versa. But even more, fully understanding gravity, the door could be opened to obtain entirely-differently propelled land vehicles. Thus the history of transportations should dramatically change, to say the least.

OK, I admit my imagination is a crazy creature, but I bet the German vs. Japanese confrontation will be continued by our sons and the youngest posters here, provided carmakers be able to cope with novelties :P .

Regards,
Jose

circlew

Jose,

Excellent post.

I look forward to the new technologies that are in their infancy which will forever change transportation. I am sure we have only slighlty abrased the surface in transport (as laurasdada did on his parking lot shine!) and in 20 years, old world autos will be in a museum forever.

1/4 mile times will be measured in nanoseconds and advanced computers (not like the commodore 64's that are in todays top cars) will be required to move people around in their transporters.

The vehicles we crave today will be the fun cars of the future not allowed on public roads. By then, I will be dust and my kids will be laughing about us old folks that were totally addicted to dirty energy!

Regards,
OW

louiswei

Bang, Bang, GT-R!!

Not so fast there.

That's only the regular GT-R and I am pretty sure the Spec V. will up and ante once Nissan is ready to run it at the 'Ring. Also, the LF-A has an "unofficial" 'Ring record at 7:24 so I am expecting the "official" number will be somewhere around that range.

Last but not least, apparently Honda is determined to dethrone both the GT-R and LF-A with its new NSX: Fukui Tells Honda R&D: NSX Must be Faster Around the Nurburgring Than the GT-R
so I think the best has yet to come.

To me it looks like the 'Ring record war (started by GT-R) is the new HP war. Does anyone remember who started the HP war?

With all that being said, I would still take a Z06 over GT-R. :shades:

circlew

Well, officially, I am going with the Z-06 as well!

I would be embarrassed if I were Porsche. "How dare they?"

Who allowed Cadillac on the 'Ring anyway?

Regards,
OW

anthonyp

Hi circlew

When I think back, the big changes that have had a effect on our lives, the auto, electricity, mechinazation(sp?) , roads for transportation , aircraft, have all been a rather slow process that have gained progressively....Now with the doubling --in a year-- the energy that drives it all, let us all hope that something positive comes out of the particle collider.....It is fun to try and imagine what could come, but my personal opinion is that very little new information will be gleaned....I`m not a pessemist, but just because something is bigger it is not necessarily better, and they already have some pretty big machines....We`l see..Tony

bmlexus

link title

link title

blkhemi

that you can never say never. Just a mere 2 days ago, most posters here thought I had lost my noodles when I said not to under estimate GM.

Well it happened. They posted a much lower than expected drop in sales, shoved Toyota off of it's back on taking over, and saved Wall Street from the bear all in one day. Posting a 19% decrease in sales usually doesn't translate into 3% increase in stock value, except for GM. They are not out of the dark quite yet and Im not giving the green light, but this is more proof that there is life for the maker. They still need more decent small cars.

OTOH, Toyota posted a 22% sales decline and the vaunted Lexus brand posted a 30% loss in sales. And there was 1% of loss in stock. Not much, substantive given that this is Toyota. What gives? They've got all of the small cars and hybrids covered. There is something more than what meet the eye.

Honda was the only maker to post a gain in sales and stock sales. I guess LG was right a least on this one. The Accord was up 38% for the year, no doubt do to it being a new model. The Civic continues to shine, stealing the Corollas once untakable light.

lexusguy

To me it looks like the 'Ring record war (started by GT-R) is the new HP war. Does anyone remember who started the HP war?

The nice thing about a lap time war as opposed to a horsepower war is that it involves the design and engineering of the entire car, not just the engine. Clumsy muscle cars like the CL65 have no chance. My guess is that one of the 1000hp per ton road racers like the Caparo T1 (if it can actually survive a whole lap) or the Ariel Atom 500 V8 will be able to break the seven second barrier, and the old guard like Ferrari and Porsche will never catch them.

cdnpinhead

"Posting a 19% decrease in sales usually doesn't translate into 3% increase in stock value, except for GM."

Happiness = Reality - Expectation

tagman

Hemi, pathetic sales are pathetic sales, regardless of how pathetic expectations were. GM is in trouble no matter what twist you apply.

I am one who has historically never counted out GM, and I am convinced that GM must take dramatic action immediately to survive. I suspect they might pull it off.

However, it is one thing to survive, and quite another to thrive. I'd rather see the latter, but at this point, are we to get excited just because GM's problems may not be terminal after all? What a pitiful state of affairs that is!

TM

blkhemi

You are right. There is quite a difference in survivng and thriving. Hence that is why no company is thriving(slight excep., Honda), not even Toyota. In their quest to match Chevy, Ford, and Dodge, they overshot expectations and are full with Tundras and Sequoias they can't sell with 7K dollars on the hood.

Tag, we must all remember that this isn't just GMs war, this is a global war. The war is not won by who has the biggest warchest, but who has the best strategic action on how to defeat the enemy, dependency on foreign oil among other major issues.

Besides hybrid power that can't be built beyond 250k units a year due to supply restraints, what other plans of action does Toyota have substance? The same can be asked of Nissan and Honda. What is in the works that is superior to what the domestics have and will have in the future?

dewey

Depressing and miserable is the only way to describe US car sales for most car makers. EXCEPT for MB!!! Go figure.

dewey

Evo-X is a great car assuming I was 20 years younger and even a better car assuming that I reach that very long anticipated midlife crisis of mine that hasn't happened yet.