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  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,208
    OW: You are a charmer. Will she be arriving in an Infiniti G37 convertible as part of the present? Should I start stockpiling the canned goods? Contact a divorce lawyer... :surprise:

    I guess none of y'all caught up with Dre at any of your auto shows?

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,208
    Charlie, it's rather simple as your note exemplifies: Home is where the heart is.

    Say hello to Ray, Annie, Terry and Moonlight for me... :)

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Say hello to Ray, Annie, Terry and Moonlight for me...

    Laurasdada, I have to confess that you lost me here. What do you mean by the above statement? I have been beating my brain this morning trying to figure it out. :confuse:
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ...my husband and I...

    Husband??? :surprise:

    After all these years of being on the Edmunds forum, I always thought you were a man, dewey!! :confuse:
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    That is the same arrangement I have with my wife...

    HUH??? :confuse:

    Am I caught in some kind of strange dimensional shift or something? So you are a man?? :surprise: What the hecks going on? :confuse: I think this economy's getting to me mentally. :sick:
  • rockshocka1rockshocka1 Member Posts: 310
    Field of Dreams?
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Field of Dreams?

    You have a great memory. How stupid of me! I obviously saw Field of Dreams, but hell, I can't remember those names. :sick:

    My motto lately is "boost this economy and they will buy". :)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Despite the consistently horrific Toronto sport team performances (the victories of the Blue Jays and Toronto Maples are nothing more than a distant memory) I just cant imagine living anywhere else on this earth.

    Toronto is probably the most harmonious of all multicultural cities in the world. In North Toronto there is a Buddhist temple, a Mosque, a Synagogue. a Catholic and Protestant Church all within a stone throw away from each others and so far no stones were thrown between these places of worship. That is a very nice contrast versus the ignorant crap that goes on in other parts of the world . Having a background from three different continents and two different religions and my wife who is from another continent and a different religion I am grateful where I live right now.

    Hopefully as the economy gets worse this will not change things for the worse.(historically the world becomes less global and more intolerant during hard times)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Good for Audi.

    Gosh... I really wish the Doc were still posting here so I could tell him "I told you so".

    I remember how he condemned Audi... and Hyundai as well.

    He couldn't have been more wrong about both.

    TM
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    That quote about a "husband"is a quote from the link on that very same post.

    Despite my clarification above of being a male I am still very interested in the Lexus RX450H. . This phenemonal best of the very best SUV will be mine not my wife's ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I just cant imagine living anywhere else on this earth.

    That's the way everyone should feel, IMO.

    You are truly a blessed man.

    ......... or woman. :P

    TM
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The Doc was right.

    Sales figures does not make a vehicle.

    Hyundai/Kia are selling well because they're cheaper and because of their "Job Loss Guarantee". Most their cars are dismally second rate.

    Audi is selling well because they too are cheaper than their rivals(with the exception of S and RS models). Unlike North America most Audis Non_Quattro and FWD. Lower pricing during hard times wins. Not excellence. Otherwise Lexus sales would be booming. ;) (tongue in cheek)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Well... speaking of places we live...

    It looks like I might be about to embark on a major shift in residence from Northern California to Southern California.

    Yikes!!

    I guess I'll have to be on the lookout for Lou's IS350. If I see you Lou, my last glance of you will be in my rear view mirror. ;)

    Actually, if I do see ya'... Starbucks is on me!

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The Doc was right. Sales figures does not make a vehicle.

    Actually, the Doc said Lexus sales figures did make the vehicle, and he used to ram it down our throats all the time.

    Hyundai/Kia are selling well because they're cheaper and because of their "Job Loss Guarantee".

    Certainly, price and customer service are important, and Hyundai proves themselves in that regard, as you acknowledge, but even before this economic mess, one of Hyundai's biggest virtues, as the reviews have shown, is VALUE... something Lexus taught the world, but has forgotten.

    Audi is selling well because they too are cheaper than their rivals

    That's total baloney... IMVHO, of course. :)

    TM
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,208
    Phil got it...

    Gee, I thought it was latter day ingrained knowledge of Iowans to know the names listed. And, of course, Radar...

    I figured "Moonlight" would be the give away as in Moonlight Graham. When he stepped across the baseline and transformed from ballplayer to doctor: :cry:

    True men cry at least once during "Field of Dreams!"

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Despite my clarification above of being a male I am still very interested in the Lexus RX450H. . This phenemonal best of the very best SUV will be mine not my wife's

    Dewey, when are you making your final decision? Just curious.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Very good Phil....Man I wouldn`t have thought of that ever....I enjoyed the movie, but surely don`t remember any scene I would have cried over....I guess I wasn`t in the special mood.....Again `Very Good` Tony
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Phil,

    I started to reply to laurasdada and then I got busy. So, I did not send the reply until a half hour later. If I had looked at your reply, it would have saved me the embarrassment. :cry:

    Actually, I hardly ever remember names/characters from past movies. In fact, I am lousy with names period, Joe :) . Now when it comes to numbers, I am hard to beat. I can remember telephone numbers from 20-30 years ago.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Interesting... I have the same "problem".

    When my wife and I go out or run into people from the community, I often cannot remember their names. Unless they are very close friends, I can't seem to log it. So, we have a system whereby she gives me a "briefing", and she reminds me who is who. It's funny. Just before I am about to talk with someone or a couple, for example, she whispers me their names and the names of their kids, often just in the nick of time... and then I just act like I've known all along. :blush:

    Like you, I can more easily remember their phone numbers, the cars they drive, and sometimes even their license plate numbers if I've ever seen it.

    I coach Little League baseball, and in the beginning of every season, I have to make the extra effort to memorize the new kid's names that are on my team.

    TM
  • rockshocka1rockshocka1 Member Posts: 310
    I really didn't think it was too hard, LD laid up a softball.

    A couple posts re Iowa, then a reference of Moonlight (LD's right-the dead giveaway) & my 40 watt bulb turned on. ;)

    Tony, I spotted another S5 in the area recently on my morning commute. Pre-dawn, so all I could tell is that it's a dark color w/Florida tag. We bird dogged each other a bit in fun, but little does he know he's become my archnemesis.... :D
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    So, we have a system whereby she gives me a "briefing", and she reminds me who is who. It's funny. Just before I am about to talk with someone or a couple, for example, she whispers me their names and the names of their kids, often just in the nick of time... and then I just act like I've known all along.

    That is too funny! My wife tries to do the same thing with me.

    In addition to remembering numbers real well, I also have a good memory of songs and who sang them from back in the 60s and 70s.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    There is a 95 percent chance that I will be making my decision by this Spring after test driving both a Prius and a Lexus RX450.

    I pre-ordered a Prius on condition of a test drive and details on prices/bargaining/trade-in value of my BMW 335i.

    If I am not happy with the bargaining process for both the RX and Prius then I will wait until November 2010 when my warranty expires . My only cost will be a few weeks of rental car charges during the winter of 2010.

    But I will not wait beyond Nov. 2010 for a new car. By then I am sure I will get a good deal on a Prius/RX 450 or another type of car.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Any 1 noticed how similar the Toyota Venza and RX350 looks?
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    I will wait until November 2010

    You can and will wait 18 months :blush: :surprise: :sick:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Yes those Doc days were the good old days. The days when luxury car sales were the fastest growing segment in the auto auto industry.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    There is still only a five percent likelihood that I will be here until 2010 still bitterly complaining about my BMW335i

    Most likely I will get a new vehicle this spring.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Dewey, one way or another, you will be a happy camper in the near future after several years of being tormented with car problems.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Hey tag, if you are really coming down to So Cal we should meet up for some canyon drives, I really want to see your 135i in action.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    It looks like I might be about to embark on a major shift in residence from Northern California to Southern California.

    Just few days back, you mentioned that you really like your home and where you live, and really want to hold on to it.

    But now you're moving, any kind of troubles going on :confuse:
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Just few days back, you mentioned that you really like your home and where you live, and really want to hold on to it.

    But now you're moving, any kind of troubles going on


    No troubles. The new business model is working like a charm. In fact, it frees me up even more than before, although I will have to take a 50-minute commuter flight from SoCal to NorCal periodically to keep tabs on things. That will be essential and a hassle at times. I have no intention of moving my business.

    If you were ever in a position to come visit my "humble" place here, you'd understand why I have always loved it so much.

    We've been going back and forth to SoCal anyway, but now the committment must be full-time or not at all. There are no guarantees, of course, but I wouldn't make the move unless I thought it was worth the risk. And, if it fails... c'est la vie!

    Nothing is in stone yet, and it will take a while to sell this property. There just aren't that many guys out there willing to spend the big bucks on a house right now.

    Fortunately, the whole family is excited and sees it as an adventure.

    I think a large part of it will be an adventure, but moving a family can be a pain in the [non-permissible content removed]... lots to consider and deal with.

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Ford today celebrated the production of its 100,000th hybrid SUV. That's pretty cool, IMO. Nice writeup and Press Release...

    image

    An excerpt...

    The 2009 Escape and Mariner Hybrids offer an array of new features and technologies to strengthen their claim as America’s most fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly SUVs.

    Both the 2009 Escape and Mariner Hybrids have been recognized with a number of awards and accolades.

    Kelley Blue Book’s kbb.com recently named the Escape Hybrid one of its “2009 Best New Family Vehicles.”

    Other accolades include:

    - “2009 Automotive Best Buys” by Consumers Digest magazine
    - “Best Crossover/SUV Value Under $28,000” by IntelliChoice.com
    - “Greener Choices” by the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (ACEEE)
    - Ward’s Automotive Group “2009 Best Engines” list for the redesigned 2.5L I-4 engine


    link title

    Sweet.

    TM
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Dewey, thanks for the congrats! ;)

    That is the same arrangement I have with my wife and despite my BMW 335i it has not affected our matrimony at least not yet.

    A proper definition of (drivers) marriage: To each his/her own, but nevertheless yours is mine. :mad:

    A $6K discount on a car with a multi month waiting list due to shortages?
    BMW business acumen sounds quite shaky in this case.


    I believe there is shortages because of BMW offered discounts. My wife took advantage of it and got some more money down on behalf of our fidelity to the dealer. :blush:

    Regards,
    Jose
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Audi is selling well because they too are cheaper than their rivals(with the exception of S and RS models). Unlike North America most Audis Non_Quattro and FWD. Lower pricing during hard times wins. Not excellence. Otherwise Lexus sales would be booming. (tongue in cheek)

    I don't really buy that, not unless you can show me numbers that show the vast bulk of Audi sales are base model A3 1.6s. I think Audi is doing well because they build the best looking luxury cars on the road, and they have a strong presence in China and eastern Europe, where people still buy luxury cars.

    If a low price means everything and excellence is irrelevant, the quasi-luxury brands like Acura, Volvo, and Saab would be doing gangbusters. They aren't.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Yep. The Venza picked up where the Highlander used to be. Didn't the Highlander move to RWD (as well as up in size?) I'll have to check.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I agree completely.

    Low price has it's place. There is cheap and then again, there is value.

    Excellence can have a various range of pricing associated with it. Excellence can often justify and command a high price. But when excellence is priced on the lower side, that becomes a great value.

    Sure "cheap" has it's appeal to some, but so does value and excellence.

    TM
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I don't really buy that, not unless you can show me numbers that show the vast bulk of Audi sales are base model A3 1.6s. I think Audi is doing well because they build the best looking luxury cars on the road, and they have a strong presence in China and eastern Europe, where people still buy luxury cars.

    That may very well be so but price is also the main factor. The fact is most Audis sold today are non-Quattros. Dont mix up Audi USA with Audi Europe. Seventy percent of all Audis are sold in Europe and as Jose cant testify most Audis on the roads in Europe are of the cheaper FWD variation.

    Someone in this forum boasted that during February Audi was number one in terms of volume. Unfortunately that is not the case in terms of February revenue since revenue per Audi is less than their German rivals.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    There is a saying:

    Too much analysis creates paralysis.

    The more I analyse anything the more reasons I can find for not buying anything. And that includes hybrids. Despite this fact I am still going to buy a hybrid because I know that nothing in this world is perfect. But here's an interesting situation in terms of how sensitive hybrid resale values are to oil prices. Obviously there is a negative correlation between resale values of SUVs and hybrid cars.

    Used hybrid values are down 23.5% since their peak last summer, says Juan Flores, director of vehicle valuation for Kelley Blue Book.


    That's one hell of a lot of half year depreciation.
    How do you hedge your resale value risk? A hybrid SUV? Maybe, maybe not.

    But buying a used hybrid today sounds quite compelling with such depreciation. In such an environment buying a Prius close to MSRP sounds least compelling. I will see what I can negotiate.

    It may sound nuts that I am so focused on saving on the MSRP of a Prius while at the same time being willing to spend double the price on a hybrid RX. But this is about the principle of negotiation and not about the overall price.(I hate the idea of someone else getting a far better deal than me no matter what I buy).

    link title
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Didn't the Highlander move to RWD

    No.

    Did the Highlander move up as well in size?

    Yes

    I am glad your finally taking such great interest in SUVs. ;)
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    almost Audis on the roads in Europe are of the cheaper FWD variation

    Right so, in particular up to A4. But even then Audi's usually are more expensive than other not-premium-brand cars belonging to the same segment. Thus, there is a perception of excellence/quality working there, the same perception that works for BMW and M-B. (One could call it badge-appeal for one reason or other, but in the end it would be just the same result.)

    For reasons of low-price only, there is at hand a full choice of other small-medium cars — French, German, Japanese, Korean, etc. — to choose.

    (BTW, do you remember I was asked about Hyunday being a good seller in Spain in the 'luxury' medium-size Sedan segment a couple of years ago? There, the mixture of low price and still good quality perception was already working.)

    Regards,
    Jose
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    It may sound nuts that I am so focused on saving on the MSRP of a Prius while at the same time being willing to spend double the price on a hybrid RX.

    Yeah... I'm glad you said it. ;)

    Seriously though, I am convinced that over time, the resale value of hybrids will be strong... especially the newer G3 Prius. I do think the prior G2 Prius will take a little hit, as it is overshadowed by the new one. But, since you are considering the G3, you should be in an excellent position.

    The only negative to you could be the transition to lithium ion and plug-in capability. But that similar risk is associated with all non-lithium non-plug-in hybrids anyway.

    Improvements are going to happen to any hybrid model you purchase at this point. So, it's good that the Prius is at least a G3.

    Heck, my daughter's Escape Hybrid received most all the improvements for the '09 model year that all the critics had asked for... yet in '10 they are going to substantially increase the mpg capability. Again... improvements are normal in the auto industry anyway, but likely more significant for hybrids as we move forward.

    My perspective hasn't changed. Unless the snow is a killer deal for the Prius... that new G3 Prius is the way to go. It's a terrific vehicle with soooooo much cool factor at a great price, IMO. It also projects the right image for you with your clients as well.

    My obvious .02... get the G3 Prius. :)

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    That may very well be so but price is also the main factor. The fact is most Audis sold today are non-Quattros. Dont mix up Audi USA with Audi Europe. Seventy percent of all Audis are sold in Europe and as Jose cant testify most Audis on the roads in Europe are of the cheaper FWD variation.

    I looked at the pricing between the A3 and the BMW 1 series in the UK, and they are pretty close. The lowest-end A3 1.6 is about £1000 cheaper than the competing 116i. It seems to stay at that same level throughout most of the range, with the top of the line S3 at about the same price as top 130i M Sport. There is no 135i 3-door or 5-door model, at least not in the UK.

    The reason most Audis in Europe are FWD is because you have to get the largest gasoline or diesel engines in order to get Quattro. What's the ratio of BMW 335is to 318is in Europe?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Snob appeal in Spain or Europe is less than it is in North America in terms of brands. Many MB taxis in North America would kill MB prestige faster than 35 percent discounted prices.

    With the lack of snob appeal in Europe you would think that the Hyundai Genesis would do better in Spain/Europe than in North America.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Yes Audis are slightly cheaper but not significantly cheaper in Europe but they still are cheaper.

    My point here is not to say that your Audi S6 or an Audi S5 is not superior to what BMW offers. My point is that the Audis that they sell here are not as representative as mainstream offerings in Europe.

    Would anyone here in this forum buy a FWD Audi over an equivalent RWD BMW?

    Do you honestly think a FWD Audi A4 will be a hit here? They just cant compete. But in Europe buyers are more frugal and they would accept paying for a badge at a lower price even if it is FWD. In fact most Audis in EUrope are kind of like a Lexus ES. A FWD car with a premium badge and unlike the Lexus a bit more t more emphasis on performance versus Lexus luxury.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    .My obvious .02... get the G3 Prius

    Maybe for .04cents which is double the amount of what you are willing to offer I may go for a Lexus RX. ;)
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi

    Has your criteria of owning a car for a really long time changed?? If it has, then you will be killed with the expensive brand of car, what ever it is, due to depreciation...Further , the technology for hybrids is changing quickly , so I would think the least expensive one would be the thing, until it appears improvements will taper off...As I have said, I like the RX , and it might be the car for you, but I would give the Honda under twenty a further look, and then is the snow situation kills that, at least the body of the RX is new and won`t change in a while....I just don`t think any hybrid should be thought of as a long term car, as you beloved Mercedes is...Tony
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Maybe for .04cents which is double the amount of what you are willing to offer I may go for a Lexus RX.

    LOL... You are funny.

    But, heck, you're the investor genius here... what do I know? ;)

    I still recommend the Prius. :shades:

    TM
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    My point is that the Audis that they sell here are not as representative as mainstream offerings in Europe.

    What is your point? Most BMW's and M-B's sold here are not representative of their mainstream offerings in Europe as well.

    Are you trying to say that Audi is experiencing success because their cars are cheaper? I think you're leaving out a few other points - like they are well made, drive great, look good, have great interiors, offer Quattro, have innovative features, and have great recent motorsport success.

    Audi is just following their business plan and it seems to be working. They have been steadily moving upmarket with price and offerings. It may not be the most appealing brand to the masses but who has more momentum in this space?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Audi is experiencing success because... ... they are well made, drive great, look good, have great interiors, offer Quattro, have innovative features, and have great recent motorsport success.

    Audi is just following their business plan and it seems to be working. They have been steadily moving upmarket with price and offerings. It may not be the most appealing brand to the masses but who has more momentum in this space?


    Very well said Jim. Excellent post directly to the point.

    I am going to venture a guess that Dewey understands those points, and in defense of his position, I am going to further suggest that his impression of Audi quite possibly stems from a valid an interesting historical perspective of Audi in general, which as you recall did not always build cars of the same quality and level of "excellence" they build today.

    TM
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Are you trying to say that Audi is experiencing success because their cars are cheaper?

    Yes.

    But I think the one thing missing in all of this is the following:

    The fact that Audi's new "bread and butter car" the A4 has been recentlly introduced is the key reason why Audi sales are doing relatively well. Last year MB sales were relatively good because of their new C Class sales. BMW sales were really hot when the new BMW 3 series E90 was introduced. These entry level vehicles are their high volume vehicles and whenever they are introduced as "new" the volume sales of all three marques does relativelly well.

    The fact that recent Audi sales are holding up relatively well is more of a fluke in terms of product cycles than anything else.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Has your criteria of owning a car for a really long time changed?

    No.

    That is exactly why I am picking a hybrid Prius or RX. Look at CR and JD Power or any stats about reliability or even longetivity( Vancouver taxi companies had Priusesfor over 10 years accumulating very high mileage with fantastic maintenance records and no records of battery replacements). The Prius is tops no matter what survey or stats I look at.

    The battery relacement costs? Replacement cost $1.5K to $2.0K. And every year the replacement cost seems to be getting cheaper and cheaper. On my super reliable BMW 323i one of my major expenses was paying $1.5K for a new air bag CPU. So many things can happen to any modern car )hybrid or non-hyrbrid)and right now nickel carbide batteries are going down in price as each year goes by.

    After 8 years of battery warranty the price of a battery replacement should be minimal.

    Sounds like a contradiction but yes I think the most complex car in the market today will be most reliable in the long term. That fact alone is what makes Toyota a very special company.

    If my BMW 335i was not such a :lemon: I would most likely buy another German car either an Audi or a BMW. But now my faith in all German cars is shaken and I want nothing to do with them except for a vintage 83 MB 300D.
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