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The problem right now though is that a bunch of hedge funds acting in unison can bring down the whole banking system. So I will completely agree with you but only if the mark to market rule is seriously modified. Otherwise a manipulative group with enough capital can crash banks that are making $20-60bln + in annual cash flows and that makes no sense. The rule is seriously flawed and the mark should only be applied to non-performing loans. A business only writes down non-performing assets, not all assets of its class, so why is a loan asset treated differently. Right now we are marking a lot of solid assets that are performing as expected (80% or higher every month) to an EBAY auction system model.
Unfortunately, I did not see Bernake on 60 Minutes. However, I did see him testifying before the Finance Committee a couple weeks ago and came away very impressed.
The New York Times article is very informative and very well written. Thanks!
Regards,
OW
I got yer stimulus...
And, welcome to the board.
Post some pics after you pick 'er up!
TM
so true, so true. And I am so glad your happy abuut BMW's misery. Yes BMW is suffering but here is a not so very minor point: I said BMW may not suffer as much as its competitors back in those days.
So lets get an update of the situation:
Toyota residual values are dropping like an anchor when compared to competitors which may be due to concerns about quality.
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US Lexus sales have been hit even harder than BMW's even though BMW has reduced their generous lease deals.
It is Toyota who is begging Tokyo for a bailout mainly to get Toyota/Lexus financing for US leases/credit. Not BMW. BMW so far does not need government bailouts.
Uh the nostalgia, the nostalgia of these kind of posts. For some reason I am not feeling too nostalgic. :lemon:
I may end up buy a Chick SUV called a Lexus RX450h due to family and snow mobility needs.
Enjoy your great two seating priveledges.
Pull the trigger on some pix when you take delivery!
Regards,
OW
Long time Audi fan. Almost put the S4 Avant in the garage about three years back, but just didn't. Can't remember why exactly, but it wasn't the right move at the time. I was actually going to load up an A3 (perfect size, great format, superb characteristics) when I came to the stunning realization that with my daughter getting her license and a used Scion xB, my Daddy-duty requirements were much reduced, at least enough to allow for less-than-four full-sized seating. My son will still have to fold himself into the monkey seats behind me on Wednesday mornings for drop-off. He's young; he'll get over it.
So I bid a fond farewell to Lexus, perhaps until such time as they again offer something I want, and say hello to the Auto Union.
In the interest of staying relevant to the lounge, I have to say that the A8 and all its variants comprise the cream of the large sedan offerings in the US, IMO. Such a beautifully put together concept top to bottom it is. If I needed or wanted anything of that size, no other need apply for the position.
For further relevance, based on earnest comparisons, the Audi lots I have experienced are light years ahead of other mfrs in their presentation and training. On local lots, the salespeople were incredibly strong in product knowledge, and remarkably sophisticated in technique and approach. Hugely refreshing and extremely consistent. There must be a training program at work here, but that's only part of the story. These guys were enthusiasts. Audi club fanatics and weekend warriors, two of them.
Impressive experience, all the way around.
So I can have all the risk of them missing their residual values and being totally upside down in an out of warranty, moderately high mileage BMW, then refinance and spend another 3-6 years paying for said out of warranty, moderately high mileage BMW? I told the sales counselor it sounded like something Mitsubishi would do, not BMW.
Well, I'm not, really. Not at all.
I couldn't figure out how BMW could possibly make money with the leases that were being offered back in those days, and the only (I mean, the only) plausible explanation that was offered up had to do with moving the off-lease cars offshore for sale in "less sophisticated" markets. Otherwise, it made no sense to me, and apparently to anyone else, given time.
I was a major gung-ho wanna-be BMW-owner guy three years or so ago -- joined BMWCCA and the whole nine yards. Read the articles in the magazine every month & identified wholeheartedly with the guys restoring and/or otherwise improving their 2002s & other older cars. Lots of Roundel folks love how the cars work & take pleasure in working on them.
Then it became more apparent that the enthusaist market wasn't (& isn't) what BMW was shooting for anymore. Hence, the electronic oil level sensor (that didn't work at first) and the run-flat tires in lieu of a spare tire (of any kind, never mind full-size), with a hermetically-sealed engine compartment only a model year or two away.
Oh, and when it came time to bring a diesel (or three, in a better world) to the states, they chose only one -- the biggest, baddest one in the stable, the one with too much torque to be absorbed by any manual transmission available, not the one(s) that get 40+ mpg & provide plenty of smile-inducing torque in the bargain, plus the choice of a manual transmission.
"Laughing last" wasn't really what I needed to say, but it was the only stock phrase I could come up with.
If BMW ever gets around to selling a 2 or 2.5 litre diesel with a manual transmission in a 3-series estate with a real spare tire (even a doughnut) and a dipstick, I'll set fire to my TSX immediately and buy it. I could have had it years ago in Europe, but apparently never here.
What's the excuse?
Maybe they will learn the hard way, but I doubt it. I must say that when I look at some of the weird models that are slated to be coming to us soon, it makes me really wonder who the heck is in charge over there at BMW? Gosh, maybe no one! :surprise:
TM
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Historically the credit markets had provided BMW with cheap corporate financing and BMW's relatively high resale values of the past years made such compelling lease programs profitable for BMW and their customers.
Unfortunately the credit crisis today and and drop in resale values made these deals no longer profitable for BMW. But quite obviously this is not a BMW problem but also a "Car Industry Problem".
Amazingly BMW still made a profit for 2008 despite those too generous lease deals and even more amazingly is the fact that it is Toyota and not BMW that is begging the government for handouts in order to fund lease/financing deals in the USA.
BMW increased their volume and made themselves more mainstream which alienated many traditional BMW buyers. Also the cheap leasing had dilluted some of their prestige.
BUT now the tides are changing. BMW is now focusing more on margins and not on volumes while almost every press release from Audi is focused on volume sales. If Audi is sucessful in terms of increasing their volume sales to a great extent they may become so mainstream that they themselves may alienate some of their own traditional buyers.
Ever since I wanted to buy a Lexus RX450h my desire for a Honda Fit with a manual transmission has never been stronger. I guess that's not a coincidence.
Dewey, you obviously edited one of your posts that mentioned myself and Len concerning the BMW "bad" leasing practices in the past. First of all, the ONLY reason I brought it up was just because of the recent news and perhaps to "stir the pot" a bit and have a little fun
Believe it or not, I actually mildly considered buying a 5 series BMW about 5 years ago. However, I was turned off by the price and reliability issues. That is when I instead "got married" to Lexus and have been very happy ever since. I am not what you would call a true car enthusiast (if an enthusiast is suppose to be one who loves road feel and handling). I want my car to be very comfortable and be loaded with the latest technology. Perhaps, one of these years, I may change my thinking and go for an MB, Audi, or a BMW (the world constantly changes), but at this time I am happy with my LS460L and my wife and I are very much looking forward to the RX450h later this spring.
Dewey, I don't get that comment at all as there's nothing amazing about it. An enthusiast is going to love talking about his car as it's more important in life to him or her than it is to others. So it's a natural that it'll be discussed more just like I'm more prone to discuss business and sciences more because they are more important to me than cars. Since BMW and Audi are looking at the enthusiast side of the market don't you think it's a natural. I think you make a mistake if you think that folks don't love or feel excited about Lexus or MB base cars because they don't talk about them. Back when Clinton wanted to either ban or impose a 100% tax on Japanese car imports you should have read the NY times to see the vehement complaints from Lexus owners about that tax professing their great love for their cars and begging Clinton not to take them away or make them more expensive. The Times reported receiving many thousands of letters from all over the country and posted some of them in the op ed column for days. Local channels here in NY sent reporters out to interview owners in richer towns and they all said the same thing. And guess what - most said they'd pay the tax if need be to keep future ownership going. I hardly want to go back into the old issues as the board is so much fresher today but it's logical to me that brands that seek the enthusiast will get discussed more because that's what enthusiasts do and I don't think it's a secret that most brands don't seek the enthusiast because it's a very tiny sliver of the market.
Well, true and maybe not so, ljflx.
I think it's very true that some brands see (or have seen) enthusiasts as a part of their core customer base, while others see them as accessories. But at the heart of the sales chase is a desire to capture or at least placate the enthusiast to a degree. You don't develop and bring to market halo cars without a sincere desire to impress and win at least some segment of the enthusiast market. And most of the lux mfrs court the enthusiast press to a degree, very much because they're after the dollars held by enthusiast wannabes, or rather that segment buying luxury looking for bragging rights, or at least some street cred, who pay attention to the press.
What is true, even in luxury segments is that enthusiasts create the trends that non-enthusiasts eventually feel they have to own. Seems to me that the aftermarket (all enthusiast) now determines the direction of mainstream development.
But it's definitely true that mfrs tailor the message through their offerings. What I find fascinating is how much more defined it is in this country than elsewhere.
If we go back to the 90's, though, you're looking right at the explosion of the aftermarket and skunkworks, from Jackson all the way up AMG. I see it more as a response to a defined, if limited customer demand at first, followed by the inevitable me-too of the mainstream market. That much of the mainstream adoption was cosmetic at first is telling, but it's developed into gotta-have-that-too mechanicals now.
You're dead on about the initial business model for Lexus, but I have to point out that it didn't take long (three years) for Toyota to recognize a growing hole in the fabric and to try to put "performance" in the image with the GS. Maybe it was two years, but I don't recall the intro of the SC as hyping performance. I definitely recall the GS campaign, at least, as aimed at enthusiasts. Fast forward to the IS-F and the picture focuses. There is no reason for the car to exist other than to bolster the image of the line. Production numbers are fairly limited and it has returned just enough cash on the investment to keep it on the lots. It's all image.
Big part of the reason you bought a Mercedes (even diesel) back in the 80's was that it was much more pleasant to drive than anything you could buy from a US mfr. It generally handled better, was better appointed and offered a much more positive driving experience. Big part of the reason you bought a Lexus in the 90's was because you got the same idea for less money, with better service and with less shop time. But that underlying driveability advantage was still there. That element has been enhanced in the years since, at the behest and demand of the consumer.
I agree the mags bare some responsibility, but it's a truly symbiotic relationship. They're only reporting trends after all, not creating them. That their agreement with the direction fuels the fire is a given, but I think it would still exist to a somewhat lesser extent without as much help.
Congrats and welcome to the S owners club! I'm curious about what you think of the engine in that car. I can only recall reading one review of the TT-S, but in it there were a lot of complaints about turbo lag.
Definitely a lemon, but maybe not "one of a kind". Remember C&D's infamous BMW 3 series tester that managed to win a comparison test despite essentially blowing up in a hail of warning lights and engine/brake failure? It managed to beat an IS350 if I recall, despite being fatally crippled and unable to complete a single test. They had to use earlier test numbers from a different car.
That seems unlikely. Audi is generally very conservative, perhaps to a fault. They didn't dial-out all of the understeer from the new A4/A5 platform because they were worried that customers would miss the traditional "Audi plow" if it was eliminated completely. They are also very reluctant to offer the S-tronic gearbox on the mainstream models, despite it being the best dual-clutch SMG in the industry, because they are worried that NA customers will complain about it being too rough.
The single frame grille and the LED lights have made the latest Audis flashier and more aggressive/less understated than in years past, but the core traits of the brand are definitely still there.
Most Audi buyers I think choose to buy Audi because they like the car better than a competing BMW or Mercedes, not because it's different and less common. I don't think more volume (and they have quite a ways to go to catch the big players at least in this market) will bother traditional customers.
You know, I'm not sure where that came from, and I recall reading the same thing somewhere (after I had actually decided on the car). Only thing I can figure is a lazy foot from a rolling start. The boost comes on at 2K or just before, so any hard foot, even from a standstill, is going to be in the range in no time. I think the reviewer maybe just didn't spend enough time with the car.
Certainly anyone driving it in sport mode or manually shouldn't notice lag. The sport mode keeps things at about 3K perpetually, and manually you can do as you like with no hesitation or reluctance. In regular automatic mode, the programming is definitely set for fuel economy, and the upshifts are very quick. Still, if you put the spurs to her, the downshift is instantaneous and the boost is there.
Never been much of a four cylinder guy before (inline six please). We'll see how this goes. From the two long drives I had before jumping, I love what I feel, and also what I hear. I'm ecstatic about what I see, inside and out.
Len, I can see that you actually don't get it at all. I don't believe Dewey was focusing on the frequency of discussion as a barometer for car enthusiasm, as you seemed to interpret from his comments. While that could be true, the point was more about the nature and content of discussions rather than the frequency... at least as I interpretted the post.
That content, just like your science discussions you referred to, would likely be more knowledgable and more engaging than the typical individual would experience.
Extrapolating from your example would lead us to believe that those of us that are enthusiasts know more about cars than those of us that are more casual owners. Hmmm.
Wow... are you actually suggesting that Audi enthusiasts know more about cars than Lexus owners? I'm not so sure you would want to say that... but I personally don't think it matters too much anyway, because everyone has their own opinions and preferences when it comes to cars, and they don't necessarily need to be based in an abundance of knowledge.
That said, I do respect those posters that know a lot about cars... and I've pointed to posters like Lexusguy in the past... I still believe he knows more about cars than anyone that has ever posted here. But, knowledge aside, I still disagree with him on occassion when it comes to opinions and preferences.
Everyone has a valid opinion and perspective, regardless of the "enthusiast" level... IMVHO. (except for Lexus owners, of course... HAHAHAHA.)
OK... flame away...
TM
I think their are plenty of buyers of Audi and BMW that don't have a clue about what their car can do or what each brand represents. I just drove buy a couple of them in the GL a half hour ago. But there's no doubt in my mind that both brands will have more enthusiasts buyers than other brands because that's the business model of the product. Most folks don't really care about the technicalities of their cars, they just care if it satisfies them. Charlie and I are very similar. We look high lux first and sport second and if you lined up 100 buyers of the higher end lux car segment I'll bet you 70-75% or more feel the same way and it's why neither the 7 or A8 has ever sold well consistently, or maybe better stated is never on the leaderboard.
Plan_man - very good discussion and best of luck with the car.
I think it is safe to say that there are always a number of owners of all brands that know very little about the cars they drive, and cars in general. I don't know whether or not there has been any market research that has studied the knowledge base of various owners to determine which owners of certain marques know more than others.
It would make little difference anyway, as I already indicated... everyone has a valid opinion, and their own preferences, regardless of their level of knowledge or enthusiasm.
TM
Traffic on the TTS page is up 25%. It's all me staring at the gallery over and over and over again...
Thank you for the complement, though I would have to yield to Merc1 when it comes to all things M-B, and Markcincinnati definitely knows a lot more than I do about Audis back when they were using numbers rather than letters to name their cars.
I also disagree with you on occasion when it comes to opinions and preferences
Merc knew his stuff and I hope he's doing well and he'd probably be shocked if he knew I took an MB and love it. In one of the last conversations we had I did tell him the MB dealer (same one I got the GL from) gave me an S550 to take home and evaluate for the better part of a day and I did tell Merc how impressed I was with the car and that my next car might well be an MB.
So I guess my 36 day vacation from my dealer is over. :sick:
I feel somewhat embarassed by those posts of mine a few years ago. The fact that I spent hundreds of posts on the same topic seemed a bit excessive. Brightness was a fine poster and debater and it was my fault for taking the topic a bit too seriously.
You're not alone in that and all it proves is we are all human and make mistakes. The problem is most of the time we never review those mistakes, mainly because we let pride get in the way.
Just get that damm car working right again. I thought the 3 was a great car when I drove it and can understand the platitudes bestowed on BMW for that level of engineering. But it's gotta work or the engineering is worthless. The G is also a wonderful car and highly worthy of consideration for anyone looking in that class. Now you see when I looked at that level and with different features in mind, notice where the Lexus was on my list if you look back to the old posts. If today's models existed then I'd have given the C-class a serious look but only of it was a third car for my wife and I.
True. The marketing of Lexus is quite distinct from BMW/Audi and that reflects the fact that each marque is targetting another market.
Despite the marketing importance of each car maker's attempts to define or re-define who their customers really are, the real underlying reason for any car company's success is dependent more on how superior their engineering is. Most of the sucessful Japanese/German car companies have mostly engineers as their top executives. Unfortunately many executives in the Big 3 were non-engineering types who focused on other things than product excellence.
Lexus is sucessful because their cars are engineered very well and they stay in the forefront in terms of theri new innovations (8 speed. auto transmissions, luxury hybrids). The same is true for Audi with introducing DSG /Quattros and BMW with their spectacular engines.
Show me a great company and usually that car company will have the best engineers but not necessarily the best marketeers.
This is why I have my doubts about Hyundai's Genesis. The pricing is compelling. The marketing is perfect for these troubled and humbling times. But that I dont think is enough. When the Lexus LS was introduced it was arguably better than its German rivals. The Genesis is great value but it certainly does not surpass its rivals.
I thought so too. I keep on reading over and over again how good almost all cars are getting in terms of reliability and how they are not comparable to those old clunkers of the past. Everytime I read this I cant help but smirk when I picture the 83 MB300D beside my 07 BMW 335i.
Repeated encounters with the law enforcement in terms of accumulated speeding tickets has turned my enthusiast level to mute mode.
It should have been a wonderful and awesome car, and instead it turned out to be an expensive P.O.S. that betrayed you repeatedly without mercy. :surprise:
That really stinks... totally sucks.
In the most real sense, it is tragic when people like yourself spend a lot of money on products like your 335i... products that should be benchmark achievements, but in the end they wind up with crappy products that have a whole bunch of malfunctions and problems.
I feel for you.
If my 135i ever does that, I'd be heartbroken... crushed. :sick:
In fact, I'd probably be in a funk and lose all interest in the joys of driving. It would be like a post-traumatic stress syndrome... It would be nearly impossible to trust BMW ever again. I imagine that I'd crave and cling tightly to the security I would get from all things that are reliable... meaning my next car would likely be a Toyota / Lexus.
It's all quite understandable... isn't it?
TM
Uh oh... not you too.
I have been as steady as a rock on predicting the success of this car from the very first moment it was announced. I am certainly not going to change my mind, as the sales of this vehicle continue to do well and surprise everyone.
Now, the Genesis Coupe is also surpassing sales targets right out of the gate, and is doing very well just like its 4-door brother.
Critics have raved about the Genesis, so its success is not only about the price. There is genuine value in the Genesis lineup.
I maintain my perspective on the Genesis... it is an unfolding success story.
TM
I am already stressed out just by reading the above msg.
LOL... Funny.
TM
Honda is really scaring the pants off of Toyota executives with their new 2010 Honda Insight Hybrid and their ambitious target of selling 400,000 hybrids by 2012. However, Toyota is not about to give up any time soon. It was recently reported that Toyota is working on a cheaper hybrid that it will aim at the new Honda Insight.
The folks at AutoExpress are now reporting that Toyota is also hard at work on the comeback of the MR2. The UK publication reports that the MR2 will return as a performance-hybrid that will rival Honda’s upcoming CR-Z hybrid coupe.
The Toyota MR2 will leave behind its roadster heritage for a compact coupe with a rear-wheel-drive chassis. It will feature a paddle-shift gearbox and a Toyota Prius powertrain with design slightly influenced by the FT-HS concept.
Toyota’s executive vice president Masatami Takimoto told AutoExpress that the company is working on a small hybrid sports car based on the MR2 that will carry a Prius hybrid set-up with “greater responsiveness.”
Speculation has it that the car could do 0 to 60 mph in 7 seconds while returning 60 mpg (50 mpg in U.S. terms). Stay tuned for more details.
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Sweet!... Not only the hybrid Honda CR-Z, but a hybrid Toyota MR2, AND a hybrid Toyota FT HS-based variant.
I'm sure some of you remember the Toyota FT HS concept... Here it is...
And, of course, the Honda CR-Z concept....
And finally... this is the one hybrid that Honda supposedly cancelled, but I wish they would build it... Known as the Honda OSM (Open Study Model)...
We are sooooooooo close to finally getting some cool hybrids.
TM
First of all, you should not feel embarrassed about what you said or how often you said it 2 years years ago. Who cares?
Brightness reminds me a little of Louiswei. Could he be? No way
Now, we get the same push from Wagoner!!!
The auto industry has historically been one of the biggest opponents of a government regulated floor on fuel prices, but General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner says he would be in favor of such a move. In fact, Wagoner says a tax to keep fuel prices above $4 a gallon is “worthy of consideration”.
Fuel taxes have been a hot topic since gas prices topped $4 last year, with plenty of support on both sides. However, Wagoner’s pro-tax stance is one of the first from within the auto industry.
“Everybody talks about $4 a gallon because, until gas prices hit $4, nobody saw any shift in consumer behavior,” Greg Martin, GM’s Washington, D.C., spokesman, told the Washington Times. “Only then did people put fuel efficiency front and center.”
Although GM was caught flatfooted when gas prices spiked last summer, GM’s future lineup of fuel-efficient vehicles banks on higher prices at the pump. If gas prices continue to hover around $2 per gallon, consumers will have little incentive to switch to more fuel-efficient models, such as GM’s upcoming Chevrolet Volt.
As it stands now, the federal gas tax is set at 18.4 cents a gallon, which means it would have to be raised to over $2 a gallon to keep a $4 floor on gas.
Are these guys for real? Unbelievably not in their right minds. First of all, we are talking about a finite commodity. Only smart car companies know that sooner or later, alternative energy is a prerequisite for engineering transportation vehicles. GM was LAST into the game and now he spews this crap??? It's easy now that the Gov't forced this not-so-smart company to build efficiency into their crappy line up!
What a joke!
Regards,
OW
I hope you are feeling better about the market. I thought we'd turn in late February with some bank loosening of credit but it looks like we may finally be there now. Banks are shifting from a mortgage lending strategy to a credit card one but only to higher credit score people (good to excellent). I got a 1.99% frozen rate offer from Bank of America thru March 2010 in the mail last week plus a separate one from Citi on advances in which they'd give you a zero interest rate for either 9 month or a year but a one-time 3% transaction fee. It seems the lending is starting to flow again. If M2M is limited in further paper write-off damage, the market probably runs 2000 points more before stalling out and entering a trading range IMO.
That was all (stupidly) based on a runaway greenhouse effect of M2M going unchecked and allowing paper writeoffs to render the worlds banking system either insolvent or nearly insolvent. Did these guys in their right minds think the governments of the world would allow an accounting rule with pure paper writeoffs to go unchecked and cause valuations of just about every asset on earth (other than gold) to be valued as if it was a distressed item auctioned on EBAY?? Pandit's memo last week was IMO, strategically let out just before the M2M meetings and basically was saying to Congress - you are going to let banks with $40-50bln of cash EBITDA go insolvent because of an accounting rule that is doing anything but providing transparency? It sent the bears and shorts scrambling.
I think at some point in the future we are going to look at Citi at $1 as the equivalent of a buy-in to Google or Microsoft when both companies operated out of garages.