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I think that's ridiculous, nothing personal. There are plenty of SUVs that can be the "winner" for having poor handling. The LX can also be the "winner" in the "gas hog" category as well... it's gas mileage is pathethic.
The Lexus LX and Mercedes GL are not in the same category as some of the other smaller SUVs that have been mentioned, but any comparison that legitimately includes a Lexus LX will typically include a Mercedes GL, and the GL will trump the LX every time... simply because the Mercedes GL is the better vehicle and the better choice for that category of SUV.
TM
No offense taken
But if you look at the criteria
Handling is not important... Luxury and after sale service is
MB after sale service is very dealer dependent and is spotty. Lexus does offer exceptional LUXURY and SERVICE
As far as fuel economy goes
Lexus LX570 =1 4mpg combined
Range Rover Sport = 14 mpg
MB GL450 4matic = 15mpg
Source:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov
If (BIG IF) I was looking at Range Rover type/class SUV with above criteria I will definitely look at LX & GL.
As ljflx pointed out its a bentely of SUV
I know what you mean. I'm curious to see what Jag does with the new XJ, and I want to see the upcoming D4 Audi A8. Otherwise I'm not interested in the full-size class.
My Porsche dealer gave me an A6 as a loaner recently and I liked it. Great ergonomics, etc. Who needs an A8?
Absolutely. You should see how good it is with a V10 and S level suspension. While I'm curious about the XJ and the A8, I don't see myself buying either of them. The cars I would actually buy are the next generation Infiniti M, A6, and A7.
VW and LR's reputation for quality and service (or a total lack thereof) is well earned, and I would steer far clear of both. Cars I would suggest considering instead are the Q7, X5, GL, Lexus GX (much cheaper than the LX and basically the same size), and maybe the Acura MDX.
Good service (San Diego area)
Excellent dynamics (for the size)
Interior materials are not lexus-like..not even close.
Too many buttons in center stack do not look good BUT they are arranged logically and most of the functions can be controlled directly.. no going thru menus.
19mpg in mixed driving
Stealth luxury... good thing (IMHO) these days
Good value for money
I does not have same prestige (if that is important) as MB, Lexus, or BMW
The TTS is at 3700 on the clock with nothing but extreme pleasure to report, other than the two tiny dimples in the driver's door, courtesy of my beloved young'uns, that the paintless guy says he can't get to because they're too close to the aft seam. Have to get a second opinion.
I am officially sold on DSG, or rather on dual-clutch direct application systems by whatever self-indulgent moniker. This tranny is an absolute driving delight in manual mode, but I have to say, though I've only used it on occasion, that the "sport" automatic mode is remarkably intuitive. Neat little programming exercise gone very right.
In an updated response on the 2.0T with the heavy breather, I have to say that yes, there is a touch of lag off the line, unless you want to engage launch control which is basically a drop at 3200 rpm. Since I didn't buy the car for stoplight stroking, I can't say it matters. At all. The true joy here is operating at speed in anything curvy. Everything just feels so... OMG, OMG, OMG! And nobody doesn't look at the car, if you know what I mean. I still wander out to the garage at night just to take it in. It's like a nightcap with no downside. :shades:
Niggling complaint: Ingolstadt could learn a thing or two about brake pad and rotor combos from Toyota [ducks]. There, I said it. These brakes are great. Solidly great and linear, giving confidence at any level. But they're not quite as good as the old IS's until really, really pushed, and, oy, they're freaking filthy! Niggling, as I said. Hardly worth mentioning, but I did. So there.
Finished drawing a study for a beach house remodel in Aptos with tons of roll-up glass (all the rage), a detached garage/poolhouse addition in Atherton that will require a variance, and a four-unit, zero lot-line townhome spread in Redwood City the land for which the developer hasn't yet closed escrow and probably won't at this rate (REOs are skittish things). As long as the checks clear, I suppose I don't mind if they never get built. :sick: At least there's still work in here in California!
Made a lowball offer in Pacific Grove on a long-on-the-market, severely over-priced "opportunity" that will require not only creativity in spades, but sellers who know where earth is and how to return to it. Dumbasses have at least $80K in visible pest control section one work, but never bothered to get any inspections done. If it doesn't fly, it doesn't fly, but the Mrs. seems keen on it anyway. If successful, I would probably spend three or four days a week down there working on the house all by my lonesome, which would be alternately mildly frustrating and supremely relaxing, to tell the plain truth.
Speaking of real estate, TM, did you achieve escrow in BH?
Greetings to all!
Glad you are busy and enjoying your beautiful car.
TM
Will consider the x5.....
Who is the "he" that said it is too "girly"? Pardon me, but I think that is nothing but BS and one of the dumbest reasons not to go for the RX. I could live with other reasons, but too "girly" is definitely not one of them. BTW, what criteria makes a car too "girly"? That's dumb, dumb, dumb!
Glad you're enjoying it. While I don't think there's really a consensus yet on the TT-RS, one report I read (Edmunds maybe? Can't recall) was surprisingly negative. It may turn out that the TT-S is the best version.
Brakes, and especially pads, are easy enough to change if you aren't happy with them. The Germans tend to favor soft pads with lots of carbon, which leads to a lot of dust. Ceramic pads get rid of the dust problem, but the trick is finding one that can match the OEM pedal response without horrible squealing or limited stopping power when cold.
I don't really see the styling of the new RX as one way or the other. It's just a generic cheese block, it doesn't really look like anything. The interior though is a bit girly, at least IMO. It's always been that way in the RX, what with that big space in the bottom of the console that's just right for one's Gucci or DKNY handbag. The new one is no different. The Q5's dash looks like a sport sedan's. The RX's looks like a minivan's - the ultimate mom-mobile.
Let's agree to disagree because this is not going to go anywhere.
Your description applies with equal force to every CUV on the market, irrespective of who built it. That's why the term "luxury SUV" is every bit as oxymoronic as "jumbo shrimp". It's impossible to come up with a design that's visually exciting but that doesn't sacrifice the "U" in "SUV". (BMW's X6 is an example of a failed attempt.)
Beautiful sedans & coupes - not SUVs - are what catch the eye & make the heart beat faster. I'll bet that future collectors won't even cross the street to look at any of today's "luxury SUVs".
If I ever decide that I need more cargo space than I could get from a mid-sized luxury sedan, I'll buy a traditional station wagon - probably the BMW 535. It's just so much more stylish than any of the boxes on wheels that pass for "luxury SUVs" these days. (And I'm just enough of a snob to think that a premium-priced wagon, like the BMW or the E-Class MB, says "We're on our way to our weekend place in Litchfield County" in a way that no SUV ever will.)
I don't really think that's true. The Infiniti FX, as much as I generally don't like the design, looks like something. It's not a generic cheese block. You notice it, whether you like it or not. While most luxury SUVs are largely forgettable and inoffensive shapes, two stand out in my mind that I would dare call "attractive" - The Q5 S-line and the Volvo XC60 R-design.
May have to hurry unless you're talking used...
link
The Q5 has an attractive front end - I'll give you that - but from the front wheels back it's as devoid of style as the rest of the pack. That can't be helped, though. Without that unappealing boxiness, it has no utility.
And that's my point. You can have style or you can have utility, but you can't have both at the same time.
If you gave me the money to buy a new Q5, I'd spend part of it on a 2-year-old Honda Pilot, which can do all of the important SUV stuff just as well as the Q5 can, & the rest on new stereo speakers or a wine-drenched weekend in Paris with a woman half my age. I just can't come up with a good reason for spending more than $25K on a boxy, sexless SUV.
Anyway, a friend is driving an '08 535xi wagon - equipped with a stick! - on a lease that runs out at the end of 2010. I'm kicking around the idea of following him to the dealer when he turns the car in & buying it as a CPO if the price is right. I've spent some time behind the wheel & really like it.
Oh, I forgot, you already have one....
Regards,
OW
Do you really think SUV drivers wants the dash board to look like sport sedan's? In general, I think car companies make nicer SUV interior than sedans'.
The RX's looks like a minivan's - the ultimate mom-mobile.
Nothing wrong with that if you had to drive kids. I actually was wishing that they put rear sliding doors on SUVs.
The side is pure Audi, except with a massive rear overhang that does the design no favors. The rear end is a total disaster. The XF's is like an Aston Martin's. The XJ's is like a Hyundai XG350's. Just awful. It makes the rear of the new E-class look fantastic by comparison.
The interior though is just shockingly weird. What happened? It makes me think of some kind of "car of tomorrow!" concept - from 1973. What's with that steering wheel? And the vents? What were the designers smoking?
Think you're spot on with the rear. These pics are all I have to go by, but the [non-permissible content removed] is as offensive to me as the Aztec's rear & the new TL's beak. I'm on my mobile so pics are small, but how far up do the brake lights go? Is that so helicopters can tell when you're braking?
Interior...may as well made the steering wheel all wood...
Mine, too. :sick:
TM
replaces this...
I'm sooooo glad I kept my Jag XJ Vanden Plas. IMO, it is now officially a classic.
TM
Or how about this:
vs. this:
Gee, I wonder which one I like better, the gorgeous one, or the totally insane one? Funny how the Jag looks like a whacked-out concept and the Audi looks like a production car.
Couldn't agree with you more. Did I miss a business headline about Audi buying Jag??
The whole girly thing about the RX is a joke. In my area the RX is all over the place, easily the most often seen lux vehicle and in fact one of the most often seen of any vehicles, and it's mostly driven by men and the repeat buyers of it at the local Lexus dealership are incredibly high. The girly thing dates back to an auto rag story which had a comment in it that was actually a good one but was read wrong. The RX had an open spot on the floor between driver and passenger thanks to the dashboard shifter. The mag mused that Lexus may have purposely designed this to allow for a woman (driver or passenger) to put their handbag there and that started the whole girly thing.
BTW - one by one I'm letting every one of my auto rags expire w/o renewal. I may keep Automobile, but that's it, if I even bother. C&D and R&T keep peppering me with offers so I finally wrote back asking them to stop and in doing so I told them that I can predict the winner of every comparo test they'll do for the next dozen years so why bother reading outcomes I already know they'll reach. I told them if they had some balance in reporting I might get interested again but with the easily predictible overwhelming bias they have why would I waste my time.
I don't know how much longer Jag can keep hanging on... I have been saying that Jaguar is dead for quite some time now. It's only due to the life support that Jaguar is still here. After so many years before replacing the iconic XJ, The new XJ turns out to be a tragedy.
I am sad and disappointed. But not surprised.
TM
Congratulations on BH and good hunting in Malibu. I'm off today for more looks in PG and a couple in the hills at Pebble Beach myself.
Same here. The only one I have left is C&D, and its soon expiring. Honda wins every mainstream comparison, and BMW wins every luxury comparison, except in very rare cases. "All of the other automakers should just give up and start building M3s" - C&D. That's when I decided to cancel my last mag. On the off chance I actually want to read something C&D says, its usually on their website for free anyway.
Yeah, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. The XF in some ways is a compelling car, and the new 470hp Supercharged version at $68K is a pretty good value. It's never going to sell in big numbers though, and Jag's lack of a competitive V6 is a serious problem. Their diesels are very competitive with BMW and Audi's, but of course we don't get those.
I just don't see anyone choosing the XJ over an S-class, 7, or LS though. It's just too out there.
This is why I responded so strongly to m4d_cow and LG by saying "dumb, dumb, dumb".
As far as the auto rags are concerned, maybe it is because I am no longer a young lad and my ideas of what constitutes a great ride are totally different than what one reads on these rags. But then again, even when I was young, I was much more concerned about comfort than road feel. All they seem to care about are handling and road feel and if a luxury car does not perform well in this area it is a piece of crap. Come to think of it, there are a few here who also think that handling, road feel, and sportiness are the most important qualities in a luxury car
Only if you put an emphasis on driving for sport and expect the car to be an extension of your intentions....you then posses the luxury of feeling the drive instead of lounging on the road!
Some of the cars that are discuss here blend both conditions rather well these days!
Regards,
OW
I realize this, but I was just exaggerating a bit.
I don't think they are the most important factor, (if they were I'd have an M5 and not an S6) but they definitely come in to play a lot more in my decisions these days. I've done the sensory deprivation tank thing. Frankly it gets old.
Anybody can do a car with super-boosted, syrupy steering, ultra soft springs, and rolly-polly responses. That's easy. What's extremely difficult is designing a car that's both comfortable and sporty, one that can both soothe and engage. It takes a mastery of design and engineering to accomplish that.
If that's the case let me know who they are because there's very few anybody's on my prospective purchase list.
There's the Buick Lucerne, Cadillac DTS, Hyundai Azera, Lexus ES, Lincoln MKZ, Toyota Camry and Avalon, and I think you can still buy a Grand Marquis. Otherwise known as the list of cars I'd rather be dead than own.
Thanks Len! What makes it even better is that we have the new hybrid RX.
I am impressed that your dealer loaned you the 2010 RX350. That's pretty neat. Whenever you have a chance the next few months, take a test drive on the RX450h. I believe you will like it even more than the RX350.
I don't know about others on this list, but I can say that the new ES loaner I had was riding firmer than my RX, and definitely firmer than the camry I tested years ago. I think Lexus has changed the totally soft approach to their vehicle line up as the years go by. I also value comfort over sportiness for my DD.
By the way, I've read some where that the new RX has set some new sales record in the past couple of months.
The good news is that this isn't an either/or situation. Many appear to have done both.
According to Autocar, Mercedes-Benz is planning a pure electric version of the SLS. Tentatively dubbed the SLS eDrive, the electric supercar will be heavily based on the standard SLS, but will offer eco-conscious performance car buyers a zero-emissions option.
In all, the four electric motors will be good for 532 horsepower and 649 lbs-ft of torque. Although that horsepower figure is down slightly from the gas-powered SLS, the SLS eDrive will have nearly 200 lb-ft of torque more than the standard car.
Electric SLS
Now THAT"S what I'm talkin 'bout!
Regards,
OW
Well in a way, that makes it even worse. Why put up with a firm ride if you still get no handling? That's what made the original SC430 such a horrible car, it had the ride firmness of a BMW X3 Sport with the handling of a blue whale.
Passengers rave about it. That's why when we use the car for a long trip, my wife does most of the driving. I'd rather ride shotgun & play with the sound system. The front passenger's seat is the best seat in the house. I like the car most when I don't have to drive it.
Hmm....I never rated a care that way! Sounds nice!!
Regards,
OW
I know we are not going to agree on this matter.
But here's something to ponder:
Last year's price hike did not reflect manipulation BUT what it did reflect is the filling up of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve despite a very tight supply situation (tightness due to exponential econmic growth in emerging markets).
The recent rise in oil is not a reflection of manipulation but a reflection of a weaker US dollar. Most commodities other than oil is jumping due to inflationary fears of overworked US dollar printing presses.
Hedging risk is incredibly important for global capitalism and the best way that is done is with very liquid commodities markets and it is speculators that are the ones who are providing that liquidity. Speculators and hedgers play a very important role together in the integrity of futures prices.
Short sellers were blamed recently for the recent stock market crashes. What happened when regulators started restricting short selling? Stock prices crashed even more and now many of those short selling restrictions have been removed due to the fact that the bogey man called a short seller was never a threat to begin with.
The same is applicable to hedge funds. We are always trying to blame someone for our financial crises. Unfortunately the real problem to this financial crisis is not hedge funds or short sellers. The real problem is with the banks, financial institutions, the real estate industry, non financial corporations and last but not least the consumer who are so overleveraged with their debts that the situation today is no longer sustainable.
Europe is calling for stricter regulations on the oil markets but that's no surprise since their financial markets are backwaters when compared to the multi-trillion $ markets of New York or London.
You're right - we are not going to agree.