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2008 Cadillac CTS

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Comments

  • richw5richw5 Member Posts: 152
    Currently the 08 CTS's seen on the street (and in magazines) are pre-production models. Production of "for sale" cars begins July 23rd.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    Since GM typically pulls some number of that first 'batch' for GM employees to drive - as a "shake-down" before release to ship to dealers, I expect that we will see 2008 CTSs at dealers ( assuming no problems ) in September...
    - Ray
    Wondering why a 2008 STS-v or 2 has appeared at dealers - but no V6 STSs reported yet...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • richw5richw5 Member Posts: 152
    The original schedule for production of the 2008 STS was June 11, 2007. There's no info on whether those would be V6, V8, V models or a mix of all three.
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    What does PEG stand for in the options listings?
  • ortegaortega Member Posts: 105
    Preferred Equipment Group...I think.
  • thebugthebug Member Posts: 294
    Called Cadillac.com today and spoke with a rep for a long time trying to make sense out the package groups. Did get a few questions answered. I now know that you can get the 300hp without the AWD. Don't really need AWD in this part of the country.

    She said that the CTS will start production on Thursday 7/19/07, but not to expect to see them at the dealer for about six weeks or so. I think I will wait them out this time because on the last edition, they did many upgrades shortly after I ordered/received a completion and ship date.

    She had nothing on pricing at this point. I just find it odd that Cadillac is keeping this information a secret, even from their own info center staff.

    thebug...
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    You have seen the online ordering guide?
    http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/brandsel.jsp?year=2008&regionID=1

    The 300 hp engine is independent of all other options, which is unusual for GM. It looks like the auto transmission may be a no cost option.

    It is strange about the pricing. They may be saving it to make a big splash in the fall.
  • ortegaortega Member Posts: 105
    Not sure if everyone here has seen this yet (been up for a few weeks), but it provides some more detail regarding a few of the features. I think the most unique is the 60 minute audio buffer. Check it out:

    http://crunchgear.com/2007/06/26/hands-on-with-the-cadillac-cts-infotainment-system/
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    As I understand the order guide, 1SB includes the 304 hp engine and the six speed automatic. However, you can specify the manual if you choose.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    base 6DM69 = $32,245 ( manual )
    DI 6DP69 = $34,545 ( autom )

    ... from a usually reliable source...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    Won't that put the base model a little less than the 07 3.6 base price? Of course, you can get a discount on an 07.
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    You're right. They've updated it since I last looked. So the base model has manual standard, which you have to pay extra for in the DI model, since you have to get the Summer Tire Performance Package. Perhaps you get a credit when ordering the manual and DI.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    ... down the option package pricing brings me to:
    304 HP w/A6 ( $34,545)
    + top option package of lux items ( $8,165)
    [[ PDQ = NAV, sunroof, wood, etc. ]]
    + 18" Summer Tire pkg w/LSD & brake upgrade
    [[ edit: ( $ 2,430/PDQ )
    [[ Y43 ]]
    = $ 45,140
    + dest? dest included? dunno . . .
    + AWD for those that care ( $1,900)
    = $ 47,040
    - Ray
    NOT responsible for any typing errors here tonight . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • ortegaortega Member Posts: 105
    Any chance this information is available somewhere where I can access it???
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    good info. While we don't know (at least I haven't seen) exactly what is in some of these packages yet, it appears that for about $45K you can have the 304hp engine with lots of lux. If this hold up, and the car mags give the CTS some love, then it should sell very well indeed.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Or you can get the DI model with manual for about $35K - and then sell the wheels back to the dealer in exchange for the stock ones for another thousand or so off.

    Why they make you pay $2800 for 18 inch wheels is beyond me. That's usurous considering that the stock wheels are already alloys.
  • ortegaortega Member Posts: 105
    Go here to understand what all the packages and options are:

    http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2008&regionID=1&divi- sionID=5&type=0&vehicleID=4824&section=modelhome&page=&butID=1

    I took the time to put it all on a spreadsheet (I had the free time tonight) and came up with the following numbers (use the Online Ordering Guide link above to translate the codes):

    6DP69 w/auto trans, PDQ, Y42, J55 and AWD (a fully-loaded CTS) - $46,745

    Same config w/out AWD - $44,845

    Of note is the fact that taking the PDQ option w/Y42 & J55 INSTEAD of taking PDR w/ Y40+Y41, C3U, B19, B20 & J55 yields the same configuration of options but costs $810 less (Note that PDR CANNOT be ordered together w/PDQ)

    Happy shopping!!
  • ortegaortega Member Posts: 105
    Good article that discusses the features of the system...check out the slide show - it's got some great shots of the pop-up display:

    http://www.technoride.com/article/The+Cadillac+CTS+The+Future+of+Rock+n+Roll+in+- Cars/210451_1.aspx
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    I calculate a difference in MSRP of the CTSw/DI 3.6L V6 vs 2008 STS V6 with the same motor = $7,845.

    Interesting....
    - Ray
    Ready to test drive
    2022 X3 M40i
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    "Why they make you pay $2800 for 18 inch wheels is beyond me. That's usurous considering that the stock wheels are already alloys. "

    How are you calculating $2,800 for just 18" wheels?
    - Ray
    Just curious....
    2022 X3 M40i
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Thats about what I figured- most cars in this class top out in the upper 40k range and I see the CTS is no exception. Its not going for the pure value proposition like the G35 but its definitely not outrageous, especially if you compare it to the M35 and 530. If I'm not mistaken those cars start between $40k and $44k.
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
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  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    GM issued their press release. The base model is a decent value compared to the 2007 model since you get more equipment standard. I suspect we should be seeing some tests by the time the September issues of the magazines comes out.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Pricing looks good. I hope it is correct.
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    We won't know if the pricing is good until MarkCincinnati analyzes the leasing offers in excuriating detail.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    17
    City
    20
    Combined
    26
    Hwy

    “old way” of rating “would be”:
    19
    City
    23
    Combined
    29
    Hwy

    2008 V6 STS shows as the same....
    - Ray
    2022 X3 M40i
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    Do you know which engine/trans. that is, or are they all about the same?
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738

    How are you calculating $2,800 for just 18" wheels?
    - Ray
    Just curious....


    MN6... requires Y43... -1300.
    Y43... 18 inch handling package(essentially fancy wheels and stiffer struts)... $2980.

    So it's $2980 for the wheels, or "discounted', $1680 extra if you want the DI engine and manual. WHY they make you get this nearly worthless option to just get a manual gearbox is beyond me. It would be like requiring a sunroof to get ABS. It just makes no sense.

    I'd rather save the money and not get the bling. $34545 minus $1300 = $33245. $36225 is what we'll end up paying.

    That's a crazy expensive set of wheels at $2980.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    These new EPA ratings are as bogus as the old ones. The cts with awd is substantially heavier than the rwd version, as is the sts. The EPA would have us believe that all three of these models get exactly the same mileage. LOL.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I don't have any leasing details to analyze, sorry.

    The price, despite it being above what some here predicted is actually a tad better than I had anticipated.

    The reason, typically, that checking the leasing deals in some detail has merit is that they are indicative of the market. If the lease is heavily subvented, it generally means buying the car is almost a sure way to burn money.

    Link the residual to the "early out" stipulations of the lease contract. If the residual is high and the early out capability seems to track your estimated expectations for depreciation, it probably means the depreciation expectations of the leasing company are realistic.

    On the other hand, if the residual is high and there is some "difficulty" in getting out of the lease, well the residual may have been pumped up beyond estimated future market value.

    My initial take on the new CTS is that it is being compared with a BMW 5 series, an Audi A6 and an Infiniti M35. Who cares if it will most likely be compared with the BMW 3 series, the Audi A4 and the G from Infiniti by the likes of Car & Driver, Road & Track, et al? It is not likely to show up on the LPS board right here on edmunds either -- but folks, perhaps including me, will think of the CTS as a "high value" almost-LPS car.

    Who knows, perhaps the '08 CTS will elevate the model out of the ELLPS class. Looked at one way, the price is right, very right.

    I'm betting Cadillac will sell as many of these cars as they can screw together -- the thing, on paper and here in cyberspace -- is high form, function and value.

    By this time next year, my guess is they'll be $5K off MSRP and subvented too. A "nicely equipped" CTS at a number beginning with a 4? Sure, why not?
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    That also includes fog lights, the turning HID headlights and washers.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    Well, it certainly seems odd to me that Y43 ( or anything else, for that matter ) is required with a change from the automatic to a manual trans. Though not quite as odd as several other ‘requires’ and ‘cannot be ordered with \ not available with’ instances over the past 3 model years on the Caddy STS.

    The Y43, to be fair ( to ‘justify’ that price tag ) does include not only “high polish finish” on the wheels, but ( in addition to the HIDs & washers mentioned above ) also:
    A - they are larger than the standard wheels – at 18x8 vs 17x8
    B – the tires are substantially upgraded – from 235/55r17 H rated to 235/55ZR18s
    [[ Edit: In fact, GM has stated that the 18” tires are Michelin Pilot Sport 2 – a very highly regarded ‘premium’ tire . . . ]]
    C – the (FE3) performance suspension is included
    D – the (G80) limited slip differential is included
    E – the (J55) performance braking system
    And
    F – the (V03) performance cooling system

    May be ‘nearly worthless’ to you, but I certainly see value here . . .
    Heck, the HIDs are typically non-trivial $$s in themselves.
    I’d order the Y43, personally – regardless of transmission – or other options.

    Sorry you can’t spec \ order one exactly as you want. That has been one primary frustration I’ve had with the STS, since the move to RWD in late 2004. Though for 2008, that actually has been addressed – for me.

    - Ray
    Wondering if this arrangement is perhaps some sort of a ‘bone’ being thrown to dealers, to inflate profit when a ‘bare bones’, manual trans. CTS is ordered????
    2022 X3 M40i
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    I ran through a “build your 3 series" BMW on-line.
    With all options ( including AWD ) the MSRP is over $55.5K.
    With a few less HP . . .
    And a 5 series ( dimensions suggest that this may be a valid comparison ) with the same motor is ( ahem ) more . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    "Wondering if this arrangement is perhaps a ‘bone’ thrown to dealers, to inflate profit when a ‘bare bones’, manual trans. CTS is ordered?"
    Or they reckon people who order a manual with 300hp are more likely to drive like maniacs and should have the other stuff, and will probably want it. I'd rather have a softer ride.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    “Or they reckon people who order a manual with 300hp are more likely to drive like maniacs and should have the other stuff, and will probably want it. I'd rather have a softer ride.”

    Possibly.

    And I hear you.
    Related:
    I believe that there is still a mis-print \ mistake in the Order Guide – regarding the tires in the Y43. Although I typed exactly what the current guide says under Y43: “(QUR) 235/55ZR18” – later, QUR is defined as 235/50. I believe that 50 is likely correct.

    Ride:
    The reviews I have seen of the 2008 STS suggest that Caddy is doing a good job of balancing ride & handling, even with their ‘performance’ suspension setups. And these days 50-series tires are not ** THAT ** low profile. And these are not run-flat \ Extended Mobility tires – with the stiffer sidewalls required for that functionality. Meaning – it may be worth trying a CTS with Y43 before rejecting it based on ride expectations. . .

    YMMV.
    - Ray
    Expecting to see Job 1 production examples on dealer lots in 6-8 weeks . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • knotemknotem Member Posts: 62
    According to Zimbio.com the 300 hp CTS with the luxurious and performance options will cost about $50K.
    http://www.zimbio.com/Automobile+Makes+and+Models+Cadillac/articles/4/2008+CTS+P- ricing+Released

    According to my calculation, The Loaded CTS (All Wheel Drive) Total Price is $51.140 plus Tax and Licence:

    6DP69 CTS 3.6L V6 WT DI(Automatic Transmission) $34,545.00

    PDQ Premium Luxury Collection $8,165.00
    (Y40) Luxury Level One Package
    (Y40) Luxury Level Two Package
    (y44) Seating Package
    (UAV) Audio system with navigation
    (C3U) Ultra View sunroof
    (B19) Wood Trim Package
    (B20) Wood Trim Package
    (UG1) Universal Home Remote

    PDR Performance Collection $3,300.00
    Y43 18" All-Season SummerTire Performance Package with pdr $1,240.00
    30U Thunder Grey Chromaflair premium paint $995.00
    K05 Engine Block Heater $100.00
    MX7 All Wheel Drive 6DP69 $1,900.00
    ZAA Compact Spare Tire $250.00

    Total Options $15,355.00+ $34,540.00 = $50,495.00 + California Sales Tax (8.25%) $4,165.84+ California Registration (around $600)
    Grand Total $55,260.84
    So we're talking $55K+ for the "so called" Entry Level Cadillac. Good Luck GM; you really need it.

    I don’t write often on this board, but in January right after they revealed the new 08 CTS and the great acceptance Cadillac received in NAIAS, I predicted that the new model will cost around $50K, somebody corrected me and said that “no way that Cadillac will do that, because they had to compete, and predicted that the price will probably go around 2% higher than 2007 model”.
    I admit that I was wrong, because it costs over $55k out the door.
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    Now that you have managed to bash Cadillac go away.

    Your numbers are about as skewed as they can get. No one else would include tax and license in calculating the base price of a car. Who in California needs the engine heater. I would rather have the included inflator kit than a 60 psi tire that probably won't be up to pressure when you need it because mounted in the tire well with the inflation valve down no one ever checks it. You didn't bother to take off the several thousand dollar discount from MSRP that every dealer gives if he expects to sell the car. And finally you are wrong about the increase over the previous year's price as a similarly equipped '07 ha a list price of over $700 more.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Using the same method of calculating, a fully loaded 2007 BMW 3 come in at $63,380. So what's your point?
  • ortegaortega Member Posts: 105
    You wouldn't order PDR & Y43. All the components that are in PDR are in Y43 with the exception of the Y44 seating package - and that's already in PDQ. Also, you cannot order PDQ with PDR.

    I also noticed one footnote for the Y43 summer tire package that may not allow you to order AWD with it:

    1 - Not available with (MX7) 6-speed automatic transmission AWD or (Y42) 18" All-Season Tire Performance Package.

    Anyway, assuming you can order AWD, it would break down like this:

    DI Model - 34,545
    PDQ - 8,165
    Y43 - 2,430
    MX7/AWD - 1900
    ZAA - 250
    K05 - 100
    30U - 995

    48385 + 4,592 (CA tax reg) = $52,977

    If you can't get AWD with the Y43 summer tire package (someone please check me on that-I really think you can't according to the online order guide), you're looking at $50,920.

    Still high either way, but not quite $55k. Most buyers do not "check every box" on the order sheet as your example suggests. A well-equipped CTS (PDQ, Y42 & AWD) will come in at $47,500 including destination - and that's before any dealer discounts.
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    You have 8.25% sales tax on autos in California? That's outrageous. The car dealers ought to have enough clout to get it reduced. It's 3% here in NC.

    Why would anyone want AWD in coastal CA?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yeah really. I guess he was up all night trying to come up with the most expensive car possible and I'm yet to understand what his point is ?

    The earlier post of $63K for the BMW 3 series usinghis methods proves a point. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    Well, without a true ‘configurator’ yet available on Cadillac.com ( or a dealer willing to ‘build’ & price various configurations for us ) it is difficult to definitively determine exactly what MSRP will result from various combinations.

    Yet it seems quite clear that selecting both PDR and PDQ will not be possible – or logical.

    A “fully loaded” 2008 CTS ( everything except AWD ) appears to be:
    6DP69 +
    PDQ +
    98U +
    Y43 +
    ZAA = $47K

    + AWD = $49K
    not $50.5K

    Adding sales tax and registration ( that vary rather widely depending on delivery location ) seems to muddy the waters, at best.

    And for one comparison data point: a run through pricing of the 2008 BMW 3 series online ( 335xi ) with all options including AWD yields an MSRP of over $55.5K – before sales tax, etc. With a few less official HP. And typically a bit less price flexibility – unless ED is an option that appeals.

    And a 5 series ( dimensions suggest that this may be a valid comparison ) with the same motor is ( ahem ) more . . . [[ I pushed a 535xi to over $70K. ]]

    And the CTS base 3.6L w/DI appears to be nearly $8K less than a base STS V6 with the same motor. I am hard pressed indeed to see anything close to $8K more ‘value’ in the STS.

    - Ray
    Not a marketing ( or pricing ) genius, but . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Don't forget the incentives at the end of the year of 3-5K, plus GM dollars. That will drop the effective price of an average model to $40K.

    P.S. This is why depreciation is so horrible on GM and Ford as well. Rebates *and* their credit cards that offer incentives. Every car effectively has the maximum "dollar" amount taken off as well(GM IIRC is now $3500, Ford is a little less). They really need to get rid of this as well if they want to improve things.
  • kgabehurtkgabehurt Member Posts: 84
    I've heard everything now. $50K sticker on a 6-banger Cadillac? Are you kidding me or what? Outrageous beyond words. This car in 3 years will be going through the auctions at $18K. If that.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    There are tons of comparable cars that cost well over $50k. The CTS is hardly the most expensive car in this class. The e350 starts at about $50k and is the same size as the CTS and has less power. That's the STARTING price you decide which car is the better value.

    BTW, that six cylinder CAdillac can be had for $32k if you skip all the fancy options.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    A 2007 ( not 2008 ) STS V6 “6-banger” with every option box checked ( including AWD ) will ‘sticker’ at $62,170. According to Cadillac.com.

    So – apparently you have not “heard everything now” . . .

    The 535xi mentioned above with a ‘sticker’ over $70K is also a “6-banger”.
    YMMV.
    - Ray
    Not here to justify any MSRP – or actual transaction price on any Caddy. . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    You should note that it's one guy who keeps spewing that nonsense. Sure, fully loaded with the curb feelers and the HDTV system and the massaging seats...

    But you could load up a 3 series for over $55K by getting silly as well.

    The car is $32K(invoice) with the 3.6 engine. Minus rebates/financing, so figure $28-30K to start. More if you really want the bling, but it's a good car in base form. The DI only adds a couple of MPG and doesn't really seem worth it, IMO, because even at $3 a gallon for gas, 10% better mileage takes you over 200,000 miles to break even.

    Yes, I know the DI engine supposedly makes more HP, but if you look at the RPMs required to do so compared to the normal 3.6VVT engine, I bet you that the two graphs will be virtually identical in the 1-4K RPM range where 95%+ of drivers stay in while driving.

    Note - you can also go and buy a fully loaded Town Car for 35K+. But you're smarter to buy the bling-less Grand Marquis for about $18K.

    One comment, though.
    GM really needs to make the cars like Subaru and BMW(Mini) do. Offer every option individually and make it more of a custom order affair. $8000 for the upgraded interior and luxury options with no other options in between basically will make the "luxury" models unsellable to price-conscious shoppers and the luxury buyers looking elsewhere(25% of sticker or more markup on options grinds most buyers).

    Me? I'd just get a good upholstery shop to put in real leather for about the same cost as GM's stuff. Full grain leather like you'd get in a good couch or leather jacket.

    OTOH...
    For those who want a good car with stickshift for not a lot of money, It'll be fine. Now we just need GM to get rid of the fancy wheel option for the manual transmission.
  • knotemknotem Member Posts: 62
    You guys misunderstood me, I’m not a Cadillac basher, and I already earned $3,500 credit in my GM MasterCard toward the purchase of a new GM car. If I wasn’t interested in buying the 08 CTS I wouldn’t take the time to calculate how much would cost. Matter of fact I was about to buy 2006 CTS, then I found out that Cadillac was redesigning it. I thought the new model will be 2007 not 2008. I’m driving an old E Class and it’s time to replace it, and I’m not even happy with the Benz since I bought it new 12 years ago; I also hate BMW and Lexus. I love Cadillac since I was a kid riding it with my uncle, but GM went out of touch in the early nineties, and now large cars became out of fashion. I think Cadillac gets their act back together when they came up with the new 2003 CTS.
    All I was trying to say that Chris Haak, the author from feeds.feedburner.com has a point, and I quote “While the base prices are similar, or even better, the availability of additional options will push the price of a CTS with all the option boxes checked to more than $8,000 over the price of a loaded 2007 model”
    Please read it if you haven’t yet, you might learn something:
    http://www.zimbio.com/Automobile+Makes+and+Models+Cadillac/articles/4/2008+CTS+P- ricing+Released.
    Dealers don’t give you a break on a popular new design; if the 08 CTS is a hit, you might even have to pay above suggested retail price, and you’ll probably have to wait a couple of months or more until you have your choice; I experienced that when my friend was buying a new 2005 Chrysler 300.
    I was asked why I need an engine heater or an AWD in California. I live in the South Bay (The Silicon Valley), and I have a vacation home in the High Sierra, California, in Lake Tahoe area, it’s over 7000 ft above sea level; the temperature there’s freezing and it snows during the winter. Northern California has plenty of high mountains.
    I always do my homework before I buy a new car. I’ll let you know when I buy my new 08 CTS in a few months or so, and what the package will be, and what price I paid. I keep the car for at least 10 years, I never lease, so when I buy a car I like it loaded with almost all the options because I’ll be driving it for years and years to come.
    I also notice that there are some Cadillac fanatics on this board. No offence.
    God bless you all, and wish you the best of luck with your 08 CTS purchase
  • knotemknotem Member Posts: 62
    Thanks ortega and rayinsw,
    You're absolutely right; I realized that I was doubling the options. It’s a $3,300 saving by eliminating the PDR, it still much higher than the 2007 fully loaded model, but for sure looks more reasonable than my previous calculation.
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