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2008 Cadillac CTS

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Comments

  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    my understanding is that a loaded 2007 is somewhere around $45k. I dont know where people are getting these figures that support the notion that the new model is $8k more than the old one. Even if that is the case I think it goes without saying the equipment levels on the 2008 are far beyond the 2007.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Fully loaded 2007 CTS: $41,275.00

    3.6L Standard MSRP $33,530.00*

    * Features shown below are in addition to, or in place of, Standard 1SA features:
    * Engine: 3.6L VVT V6 with 255 hp
    * Interior: wood trim, includes real wood steering wheel with chrome accented shift knob
    * Seating: leather seating surfaces
    * Steering wheel: leather- and wood-trimmed with Tilt-Wheel adjustable steering column

    Additional Options
    $7,745.00

    * 3.6L V6 18" Wheel Performance Package, includes (TT6) Xenon, High-Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps, (QGQ) P225/50R18 W-rated, performance tires, (N87) 18" (45.7 cm) 9-spoke, polished aluminum wheels, (JE5) performance brakes, (G80) limited slip differential, (JL4) StabiliTrak, (FE5) Performance handling suspension and (UJ6) Tire Pressure Monitor System
    * 3.6L V6 18" Wheel Sport Appearance Package, includes (Y43) 3.6L V6 18" Wheel Performance Package, (B56) Sport rocker moldings (NDB) chrome exhaust tips, (P40) 18" (45.7 cm) Sport, 12-spoke, polished aluminum wheels, (TL4) Sport grille with chrome mesh accents, (T43) rear spoiler and (VGE) custom rear body-color fascia
    * 3.6L V6 Luxury Package, includes (A45) Memory Package, (DD7) inside rearview auto-dimming mirror with compass display, (AH8) 8-way power front passenger seat adjuster, (AL2) 2-way power driver and front passenger lumbar control, (KA1) driver and front passenger heated seats, (UG1) Universal Home Remote (UA6) theft-deterrent alarm system, (QWJ) P225/55R16 H-rated, all-season, blackwall tires and (PX0) 16" (40.6 cm) bright machined-finish aluminum wheels
    * Audio system, , AM/FM stereo with 6-disc in-dash CD changer and Bose 8-speaker sound system, Radio Data System (RDS) and digital signal processing
    * Bose Edition, includes (CF5) power sunroof and (U2S) AM/FM stereo with 6-disc in-dash CD changer
    * Bose edition package discount
    * Engine, , 3.6L Variable Valve Timing V6 SFI, (255 hp [190.2 kW] @ 6200 rpm, 252 lb-ft of torque [340.1 N-m] @ 3100 rpm)
    * Premium paint
    * Seat, , rear split-folding
    * Sunroof, , power, tilt-sliding with express-open and manual sunshade
    * Transmission, , 5-speed automatic, with Driver Shift Control
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    "Fully loaded 2007 CTS: $41,275.00
    3.6L Standard MSRP $33,530.00* "

    Well – although the facts you present are true & correct ( & current ) I do not think that it is quite fair to compare any ‘end of last model year’ ‘special edition \ package’ sorts of promotional pricing [ Bose Edition ] to the beginning of a first model year follow-on model.

    [[ The last year ( MY 2004 ) of the C5 Corvette resulted in monstrous discounts ( for Corvettes ) of $10K - $12K, from several reports I have seen. Just after the C6 version was introduced. ]]

    And whether or not any of the new features standard or available for 2008 ( higher HP \ TQ version of the 3.6L V6 w/Direct Injection, 6-speed automatic, really big sunroof, front seats that can be ventilated \ cooled as well as heated, navigation system, AWD ) are of interest to you, I think that when added \ selected they clearly add some cost – and offer additional value, at least to some.

    Thus, in the content sense, ‘fully loaded’ for a 2007 CTS is really not comparable to ‘fully loaded’ for a 2008.

    And I keep coming back to the rather significant gap between the base 2008 CTS and the base 2008 V6 STS.

    - Ray
    Thinking the 2008 pricing is at least reasonable – if not ‘bargain basement’. . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Agree.

    I think even if the top-of-the-line, fully loaded, AWD 300HP 2008 CTS tops off at $50K it still represents a pretty good value (of course, not the out of business sales kind of bargain). The "3er kind of price for a 5er kind of car" alone is enough to make the CTS a good value for the luxury sedan buying crowds.
  • knotemknotem Member Posts: 62
    Until Cadillac will lunch the BLS in a few years from now, what Cadillac is trying to do now is selling the basic 363 HP with 6 speeds manual, and the 304 HP with automatic transmission to compete on price with the BMW 3 series. When adding all the luxury and the performance features, not to mention the 4 WD, and the new car size, then you can see the wide spread of price to compete with the 5 series.
  • jpennjpenn Member Posts: 68
    Hey Gang,

    I'm not sure if anyone is aware of the fact that the first magazine road test for the new CTS is in the Sept. issue of Winding Road Online Magazine. They tested several versions of the CTS in Germany and the Nurburgring (sic). For the most part they seem very pleased with all of the changes and improvements with the exception of the 6 speed manual shifter which is positioned poorly on the console.

    Anyhow, if you haven't seen this article check it out online. There is no charge for a subscription which gets some pretty decent information ahead of the paper mags.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I too CAVED IN and took my whippin' as I suggested at least similar prices -- although NOT THAT high.

    It is, however, at the 3 series price point (sort of), which is, after all, the target.

    The fact that some will consider it a bargain 5 series, may still work in its favor.

    On the other hand, it can be had nicely equipped for $45K, as far as I can tell.

    :surprise:
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Type "Zymurgy 2008 cts order guide" into your search engine. All of your questions regarding standard equipment and what option can be had with what are answered there. Add in your prices from message #1047 above, and you will know it all.
  • ortegaortega Member Posts: 105
    That's just a copy of the GM online order guide we already have access to. Nothing new.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Apparently it is new to most of the people talking about options and pricing for the past couple of days, or they would not be making so many false assumptions and mistakes in their calculations.
  • ortegaortega Member Posts: 105
    I'm sorry...I did not mean to sound rude. You're absolutely right. I know the the link to the order guide has been posted a few times on here, but some may have overlooked it.

    BTW...have you actually driven a car at 150mph? Just curious what that experience is like (don't think I've ever topped 115).
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Yes, twice. First time in a Chrysler 300--quite scary. Second time in a Plymouth Superbird (nose cone, giant spoiler wing). The Superbird was more stable and thus less frightening. I guess you can figure out how long ago that was. In recent years I keep it under 90. However, I did push it close to 100 in west Texas last year.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    Looks like some of the "First Drive" CTS reviews are breaking cover (Edmunds, Autoweek, Car and Driver). So far so good...some nitpicks but overall high praise. Looks like Caddy may have a winner on its hands.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    Here's MT's first-drive review:

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0709_2008_cadillac_cts

    I still can't believe that normally aspirated DI V-6 engine can generate 304 HP. Its 0-60 time is also impressive.
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
    ...but I'm not sure it will have that "must have" attraction to change the overall sales typical for the CTS, 5-6K/mo. Sure, the first few months the sales will be up, but after that it will probably settle back to its historical sales figures. Caddy fixed the main thing lacking in the current CTS - the interior. Other than that it is merely keeping up with the competition.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I still can't believe that normally aspirated DI V-6 engine can generate 304 HP. Its 0-60 time is also impressive.

    Not hard to believe...

    The nissan 3.7L VQ WITHOUT DI can generate 330HP. :surprise:
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Please post them here.

    Thanks!
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The CTS doesn't require premium fuel to do it. This means a much longer lifespan and a decent savings in fuel as well(lower compression tends to have less problems as the engine ages)
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    No, the CTS doesn't require premium fuel. But without the premium fuel, one wouldn't be able to achieve the performance numbers posted from Cadillac.

    Meaning: If you want a 300HP CTS, you have to pay for it at the pump.

    However, I do like this better than other premium brands' "one shall use premium fuel or else" policy.

    Another big plus for Caddy.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    It is keeping up with the competition that was brought to market in 2004 as a 2005 MY.

    My new CTS, assuming I do indeed go that way, will contain somewhat less content than my 2005 A6.

    This, despite what you may think I mean, is MAJOR progress for a US car mfg.

    It is so inexpensive to add content, at least most content, it makes me wonder why not lead rather than follow.

    But, if the price is what it seems it might be, well, it still will be a winner.

    The MT write up was very revealing, encouraging and mixed.

    I would say, the verdict is positive and simultaneously cautiously optimistic.

    "I got a friend in Fremont, He sells used cars, ya know.
    Well, he calls me up twice a year
    Just ask me how'd it go. . .
    Pretty good, not bad, I can't complain
    Actually everything is just about the same. . ."


    John Prine.

    :shades:
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    On the Cadillac Drivers Blog someone complained about the DRL's as a danger to his fellow motorcyclists. Can anyone tell me how they create a danger. Considering that most cyclist run with their headlights on during the day so as to be seen I do not see what his objection is.
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    the multiple reviews of the new CTS sound good; however, none are so glowing as to make any recent BMW buyers have remorse. The one thing that locked me up was the 4000+lb weight of the new CTS. Glad that it has a 300hp motor - it will need it.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I guess there's one reason to not have a manual... So much for push-starting it.

    Egads - that's approaching a 1999 S420's weight, and that thing was an absolute tank.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    According to GM news releases, the RWD will weigh in at 3872. The AWD weighs in at 4101.
  • edkleinedklein Member Posts: 34
    I'll be in the market in another year or so and the new CTS is one of the cars I've been waiting to see. I must confess some dissapointment to see them adopting the BMW model - with the base price car being pretty thoroughly stripped and the price of options pushing the price up hard and fast.

    Which leads me to wonder - aside from the badge, what is supposed to make me consider a base CTS or a base 328 a premium car?
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    Louiswei

    Where did you see any information that indicated that the Direct Injection motor required premium fuel to achieve the reported performance numbers? Premium fuel has no more energy than regular fuel.

    It has a higher octane rating to prevent predetonation (otherwise known as pinging) in a high compression engine and does not add anything to the power rating.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    From Inside Line's First Drive: 2008 Cadillac CTS

    The 2.8-liter engine has been dropped from the lineup, so last year's port fuel-injected (PFI) 3.6-liter V6 carries over as the base engine, only now it makes 263 SAE-certified hp and 252 pound-feet of torque.

    New for 2008 is a direct-injected (DI) version of the 3.6-liter V6 engine. Variable valve timing on the intake and exhaust cams and an 11.3:1 compression ratio help the new engine put out 304 SAE-certified hp, and 80 percent of the peak torque output of 273 lb-ft is available at 1,000 rpm. This engine feels stout, but there's no place on this winding circuit to verify Cadillac's claim of 5.9-second performance to 60 mph and a top speed of 155 mph.

    The use of premium unleaded fuel plays a role in Cadillac's performance figures, but either V6 engine runs happily on regular. Official 2008 EPA mileage figures are unavailable, but Cadillac expects 17 mpg city and 26 mpg highway from the new DI V6.


    Apparently the 3.6L DI is optimized for premium unleaded but the regular would work as well.
  • ortegaortega Member Posts: 105
    The Motor Trend first look article talks about it:

    ..." GM global rear-drive chief engineer Dave Leone claims a 15-percent power increase (though you'll only get the full 304 horses if you run it on premium unleaded)"...

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0709_2008_cadillac_cts/engines.ht- - ml
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    Same energy, yes, but if it (through the knock sensor/engine computer) allows the engine to run at further advance, it'll develop slightly more power with premium.
  • actualsizeactualsize Member Posts: 451
    Where did you see any information that indicated that the Direct Injection motor required premium fuel to achieve the reported performance numbers? Premium fuel has no more energy than regular fuel.

    It has a higher octane rating to prevent pre-detonation (otherwise known as pinging) in a high compression engine and does not add anything to the power rating.


    The reason premium fuel produces more power is this: The usual pre-detonation counter-measure is to retard the ignition timing. Since premium fuel pings/knocks at a higher threshold, more aggressive ignition timing can be used.

    More spark advance generally means more power, better fuel economy, and reduced emissions - as long as the ping/knock threshold isn't crossed.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    So what you folks are telling me is that the DI engine is optimized for premium gas, (otherwise, how would it know to advance the ignition for premium if it didn't knock on regular) but to run on regular the knock sensor is retarding the engine. This means that the engine is always running with a low grade knock which tells the sensor to retard the engine in order to prevent serious knocking. Unless of course you are running on Premium, which Cadillac says is not needed for this engine.

    Seems like a heck of way to engineer an engine. I find it hard to believe that GM would design a motor this way.
  • st4422st4422 Member Posts: 7
    It sounds like general agreement here. The engine computer will advance timing until knock occurs. The computer doesn't know what kind of fuel is being used. Obviously, more advance will happen with premium fuel. It seems to me that the question is really whether Cadillac specs 304 hp based on regular or premium fuel.
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    If the DI engine develops 304 hp on regular how much of a boost does it get with premium?

    On the other hand if it develops 304 hp on premium how much power does it lose on regular, and isn't that false advertising, since they advertise 304 hp and say that it runs on regular fuel.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Unless you are planning to try to get to the 155 mph Cadillac claims the CTS can do, all this discussion about premium gas needed to squeeze out a few extra horsepower is silly. So it will only do about 150 on regular. Who here is planning to buy one to take to Daytona or Talledega?

    It looks like a strong motor with a great torque curve. That is all that is needed for driving anywhere except at the track.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Over the years, the German cars I have had have virtually always specified 91 or higher octane.

    I have read and re-read the arguments pro and con, especially since many engine management systems will retard the spark to eliminate ping.

    The engine management systems and engines themselves that produce the greatest power using premium gas generally will provide a boost in fuel economy (unless you really drive as if there is an egg between your foot and the accelerator pedal.)

    I will not venture anything other than a repeating of many of the writings of those who actually seem to have some credentials in the field. That is, if the engine is designed to operate with greater power on premium, it is not unlikely that it will also operate with greater efficiency on premium -- meaning there is SOME evidence it will cost either no more or slightly more to use regular in an engine so designed.

    My choice would be to dig a bit deeper and find out if there IS INDEED increased power and increased mileage with the use of premium. If there is such an increase, it would seem premium is both the most fun and the most economical choice.

    On the other hand, I literally cannot remember the last car I had that did NOT require premium (1976 perhaps), so if this Cadillac will run "fine as wine" on regular, but gets a boost in perf and econ with premium, well, it ain't no thang.

    Check out the Sept Car and Driver review.

    Impressive -- if as equipped -- if it really is $42K.
  • bmarkbmark Member Posts: 52
    Bingoman here is the road test that motortrend just pu out. If you read it it does say that to get all the horses on the d1 engine you need to use premium fuel.
    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0709_2008_cadillac_cts
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    They have a really good review of the car. 0-60 was 5.8 secs.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The 3.6 DI produces 304HP on PREMIUM, not regular.

    Check out Inside Line's 2008 CTS first drive article for reference.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Having read MT, C&D, R&T, and Inside Line, it appears to my eye that all four articles were written by the same guy, and then edited to suit the needs of the publishers clientele.
  • thebugthebug Member Posts: 294
    It appears that the color options for the seating package (Y44) is limited to one color, at least on this site. I'm hoping this is a typo.

    thebug...
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    According to the order guide, leather (Y44) is available with these colors:

    Ebony seats
    with Ebony
    interior
    accents

    Cashmere
    seats with
    Cocoa interior
    accents

    Light Titanium
    seats with
    Ebony interior
    accents
    2022 X3 M40i
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    "The use of premium unleaded fuel plays a role in Cadillac's performance figures, but either V6 engine runs happily on regular. Official 2008 EPA mileage figures are unavailable, but Cadillac expects 17 mpg city and 26 mpg highway from the new DI V6."

    The official EPA figures are available for RWD & AWD. They are posted on the EPA fuel economy web site. 17/26 for both useing regular gas.
  • len00len00 Member Posts: 22
    Can somebody tell me why the premium luxury is not compatible with AWD? It looks as though you can still order 18", AWD, with all the separate luxury packages and still get the same end result but at a much higher price tag. The premium luxury with the 18" all season w/o AWD comes in thousands less than AWD with the separate luxury packages, even figuring in the $1900 for AWD. Now I'm wondering if AWD is a necessity for me but I live in MA so I think it's important and I have it now on my Infiniti. I must admit that I'm a little baffled by this... I don't know what AWD has to do with the premium luxury package and why one cancels the other out.

    Len
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    I am looking at my copy of the order guide as I write. The notes on PDQ (premium luxury collection) say nothing about AWD. The notes on MX7 (all wheel drive ) say nothing about PDQ.
  • thebugthebug Member Posts: 294
    rayainsw - I hope this is the case. I'm dead set on black on black. Won't have it any other way. If you read the offerings from Edmunds, only cashmere/cocoa is available. Edmunds has had many typo's before, so consider the source.

    I'm going to order next month. If I get all that I want, I should be able to get OTD at $45,777. That's without any dealer discounts. This is 1K over my original estimate posted back in March, less the DC.

    thebug...
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    " I'm dead set on black on black."

    My reading of the original & the current 2008 CTS Order Guide is that the leatherette is is NOT available with cashmere\cocoa. And leather \ Y44 is available with all 3 - including Ebony\Ebony.

    But your Caddy dealer certainly ought to be able to answer this question for you . . .
    - Ray
    Not a New Car Salesperson ( thank goodness )
    2022 X3 M40i
  • len00len00 Member Posts: 22
    I printed out the "option and name" description form off the Edmunds site and it says for AWD MX7 "Not available with PDQ, Y41, Y43."
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Edmunds may say that PDQ and MX7 are not available together, but the Cadillac dealer order guide does not.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .you can't order a "tarted up" (sport wise) CTS with AWD and a manual transmission.

    I, begrudgingly, admit that at 27 months, with an automatic (a delightful 6speed Audi A6, MY 2005), I actually believe a "real driver" can actually derive both performance and satisfaction from an automatic equipped car. But, it has taken 27 Audis almost all with stick shifts and 1 without to come to this conclusion.

    The reviews seem to say "the CTS auto is good enough for BMW and that the CTS just isn't well suited to the stick anyway."

    But, for those of us, well into our 5th decade who have had almost exclusively stick shift cars, what in the wide world of sports makes "the rest of you youngsters" not even LUST, and LUST with great passion, the stick shifts?

    My god, the sticks I grew up with were marvelous and nowhere near the buttery smooth, snick snick capabilities of even the cheapies of today?

    If you have not driven at least thousands of miles with a stick -- how could you even remotely not consider and consider strongly such a choice?

    And, more to my point: WHY is it that the most performance oriented (arguably) vehicles (i.e., those with the sport suspension and high specific output engines AND AWD) only offer automatics?

    The high zoot Germans and Eye-tal-I-ans, all offer stick shifts (hmm the Audi RS4 leaps to mind), yet the Cadillac offers the stick apparently with little conviction, as evidenced by offering the [potentially] highest performing model (AWD) with ONLY the autotrans.

    The good news is that at age 55+ I am now able to be "over" the stick shift -- but for pity's sake, what is up with the rest of you "kids.?" :confuse:
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