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What Keeps You Loyal To A Brand?

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  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Really glad to hear that. I'd rather see Ford close up Mercury and Lincoln, and make the PAG profitable. They've done a wonderful job with A/M, and it actually makes them money.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They should sell Jaguar first. Jaguar loses money plus they haven't really figured out how to grow the brand.

    -juice
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I'd be willing to bet that if Jag pulled a Porsche and went the absolute opposite direction to a midsize SUV based on something like the DEW98 or better yet, a Volvo XC90, Jag could come up with some $$$ that could help out the brand.

    I know. It is totally sacreligious, but what the heck have they got to lose here...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Can't be worse than an X-Type wagon.

    -juice
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'd be willing to bet that if Jag pulled a Porsche and went the absolute opposite direction to a midsize SUV based on something like the DEW98 or better yet, a Volvo XC90, Jag could come up with some $$$ that could help out the brand.

    I agree with you - and the XC-90 with a Jag engine in it would work well - but the "theory" is, that Jag builds the sports cars, and Land Rover builds the SUVs. If they combined the dealerships, this theory may have taken root. So far it hasn't. Who's gonna want Jag though, with the cash flow drain it brings with it? I wouldn't touch it.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I had a bad experience with Ford and Ford Credit specifically, but that car is just cool, period.

    -juice
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,724
    they stole that paint job from amc. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Love to see an AMX replica car. Since so few AMX and Javelins are still around, it would be kinda cool. As for the Challenger/Mustang/Camaro retros, I have mixed feelings about that. Don't really care for the interior of the New Stang, and for exterior I prefer them going forward in designs. The '94 and '99 were pretty good evolutions of designs for the Mustang. The concept car, I think it is 2009 model, looks pretty cool for the Mustang.

    What happens to retro cars is that they become kind of a plainer and blockier rendition of the original. Today's designs, with the too tall door window sills, higher beltline, bigger butts, no chrome or custom looking bumpers doesn't translate. I must say the look of the Challenger is pretty awesome in a replica car way. Pretty close. That said, I would prefer a lower car, lower window sills, less in width, less in weight, and perhaps throwing in a new twist to the design so it doesn't look like a plastic replica kit car. We already have the larger Charger and the slightly smaller 300 cars from DamlierChrysler, so do we need another large super sized Pony car?

    Hey, they owned AMC. Let's see something like the AMX. A slightly smaller one, with the 3.5 V6 as the engine for say $22K, or less.
    -Loren
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My Dad had a 1968 Javelin that was medium blue with a black interior. I thought that car had more advanced styling than any Mustang, Camaro, or Baracuda of its time. Chrysler bought out AMC back in 1987, so I suppose they would have the rights to the Javelin and AMX nameplates. I'd love to see one with the wild red, white, and blue paint scheme. Maybe an orange Mark Donahue edition, though most younger people wouldn't know who Mark Donahue was.

    Here's a short biography of the man:

    http://www.motorsportshalloffame.com/halloffame/1990/Mark_Donahue_main.htm
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Those cars had the first one piece molded soft dash, if I recall correctly. American motors had the toughest doors in business. I saw a Barracuda which was not a fastback, at the latest car show - Cayucos, CA. They had lots of great cars. And to see how good a Camaro or Malibu looked back in the later 60's to earliest 70's, ya wonder what went wrong at GM.

    And we can recall the days when they had stock car racing at NASCAR events. I see they are racing the new Mustangs, which is a good thing. And GM is racing the CTS-V and Corvettes. As for NASCAR it is but one size fits all -- parts is parts now. Hard to imagine driving your Monte Carlo on the track. :D:D:D Would take a lot of imagination. Even the RWD Charger doesn't quite look the same now, does it?

    If they race, buy it? In a way, there is a little bit to a lot of brand loyalty to cars which people are fans on on the track. There is the BMW, Corvette, Mustang, Miata, Porsche and other names of races which people seem to relate to. Even the CTS is raced. This is good. Now this is the road track racing, and not NASCAR. Getting hard to cheer on your car brand these days as they are all the same cars - there is but one NASCAR. Unlike those loyal Ferrari owners, which cheer on their make to victory. Can one get excited about NASCAR Fusion? Maybe they race to FWD car on road courses, like they do the Mazda6, I don't know.
    -Loren
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,724
    thanks for responding. i wasn't sure if anyone would figure out my post. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    In a way, there is a little bit to a lot of brand loyalty to cars which people are fans on on the track. There is the BMW, Corvette, Mustang, Miata, Porsche and other names of races which people seem to relate to. Even the CTS is raced. This is good. Now this is the road track racing, and not NASCAR. Getting hard to cheer on your car brand these days as they are all the same cars - there is but one NASCAR. Unlike those loyal Ferrari owners, which cheer on their make to victory. Can one get excited about NASCAR Fusion? Maybe they race to FWD car on road courses, like they do the Mazda6, I don't know.

    Exactly right, Loren. I recently went to the Drag Races here in Vegas - and they raced Monte Carlos with Mopar engines inside. One Toyota raced, with an actual toyota engine I think. Maybe one Mustang. But the vast majority of the dragsters and the funny cars were all Mopar driven, so where's the fun anymore? Bored me. I used to watch Stock Car races when they were actually stock cars.....with stock rules. Now, the only rule is 500 cu.in, and every single engine is the same, all made by Mopar. Does that make me want to buy a Hemi? Not really. We've lost the sport.
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    If I could afford any car I wanted, I'd stick to mid- and full-size GM sedans and full-size Ford pickups. I've had my most reliable vehicles that way.

    The GM A-body sedans have been the best to me. I've owned six, and the most expensive one cost me $400. Had 1988, 1989, and 1995 Buick Centurys, 1987 and 1989 Celebritys, and a 1989 Ciera. The rear-wheel drive B-body cars are next, and I have had a 1978 Impala, 1980, 1984, and 1988 Caprices, and 1979 and 1985 Delta 88's. Most expensive one of those was $500. To be fair, I can't really count the 1988 Caprice, because it had no motor or transmission, and I never drove it. But then again, it was free, and I sold a lot of cop package parts off it, so it was reliable to my wallet.

    Surprisingly, the four least reliable cars I've owned were a pair of 1989 Toyota Tercels, a 1986 Civic, and a 1980 Civic.

    Right now we have a Chevrolet Lumina and I'm looking for a Chrysler minivan for the family, a beater A-body sedan for myself, and an old beater Ford pickup truck for hauling.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239

    Surprisingly, the four least reliable cars I've owned were a pair of 1989 Toyota Tercels, a 1986 Civic, and a 1980 Civic.


    Surprising doesn't begin to explain it. Incredible more comes to mind.... :confuse:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Surprising doesn't begin to explain it. Incredible more comes to mind....

    Well if he's buying these cars cheap and used, that might be part of the problem right there. Also, the stuff Occupant1's talking about, like the FWD A-bodies and RWD B's, were fairly reliable, durable, and relatively cheap/simple to fix when something broke on them.

    Any cheap used Japanese car is probably going to have the snot beat out of it. Usually if people have an old Japanese car in good shape, they want a small fortune for it.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, you could be right, andre. But in my VAST experience with owning way too many cars in my lifetime, I have never got 180,000 out of a GM car without SIGNIFICANT repair expense, and have done it easily in a Honda.... Seems just hard to believe. You know I own mostly Domestics most of the time, and I like 'em. But seriously, I have put as much money into my Oldsmobiles as I paid for them new, and never really had a problem of any size with a Japanese import. But, whatever.... :surprise:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    But in my VAST experience with owning way too many cars in my lifetime, I have never got 180,000 out of a GM car without SIGNIFICANT repair expense, and have done it easily in a Honda....

    Now that I think about it, the only car my Mom & stepdad have ever taken from brand-new to over 200,000 miles is a 1999 Altima. It hit ~200K on Mother's Day of this year, so I'm sure it's got to be pushing at least 215K by now. When that car was still fairly new I thought it was a turd because it killed its transmission at 35,000 miles, but thankfully under warranty. And around 90,000 miles the battery went bad and made the car cut out while it was moving, which I'd imagine was pretty scary for them.

    Now I don't know what other work it might have needed, but I think it was mainly just maintenance stuff, and nothing out of the ordinary.

    They did get 179,000 out of a 1986 Monte Carlo that they gave to me, but I know it wasn't as reliable. Among the things that went bad were the water pump, those metal lines that inject air into the exhaust manifold, and something in the distributor. I think it might have gotten a new radiator too. When I had the car, it needed a new windshield wiper motor. And then it got totaled, 3 months after they gave it to me, with 192,000 miles on it. It was still running strong, but the two-tone metallic gray over silver paint was horribly faded, so it didn't look so hot.

    The only other Japanese cars I can think of with my family having long-term experience with were a 1991 Stanza that my Mom & stepdad bought new, and an '03 Corolla my uncle bought new. The Stanza's tranny started to act up around 90,000 miles, but they were able to nurse it to around 110-120,000 before selling it. I remember it had exhaust problems too around the 90,000 mile mark. My uncle's Corolla was reliable, although those 30/60/90K mile servicings could get kinda pricey. And his catalytic converter went bad earlier this year, around the 100,000 mile mark, causing the check engine light to come on from time to time. He still hasn't gotten it fixed...I know the dealer wanted something like $1500 to do it! His round trip commute is about 100-140 miles, depending on where his company sends him, so I'm sure he's got to be pushing 130,000 miles by now.

    I used to be leery of Nissan, because of my Mom & stepdad's experience with the Stanza and, initially, the Altima. But that Altima ultimately did prove itself, since tranny #2 has been reliable. I'd consider an Altima for my next car...or at least the '02-06 style. I need to go check out the '07 though, to see if I stil like 'em. So with new cars I'm not terribly brand loyal, I guess. While I may love old Mopars and old Pontiacs, with newer cars it's just whatever suits me the best.
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    Let's see here...

    The 1988 Century I had was purchased off eBay for $275 and had 217,000 miles when I got it. Drove it for about a year, replaced all the rusted out components (brake lines, fuel lines, parking brake cable), and spent about $550 in repairs. Sold it for $500 at 231,000 miles. Guy I sold it to took it well past 240,000 miles and traded it for a Civic (I think 1991 model) so he could have working AC. That Civic died a week or two later.

    The 1989 Century I had was also purchased off eBay for $250 and had 229,000 miles when I got it. Only repair I made to it was a set of used tires. And little things like an inside door handle whose rivet snapped out. The apartment complex towed it away for expired tags before I could afford to inspect and tag it here in Texas. But I think I was at 238,000 by that point a year later. Wasn't driving it as much as the '88.

    The 1995 Century I had was purchased new by my parents and they put 224,000 miles on it before giving it to me. I then put 46,000 more miles on it before trading it for that Aerostar even up. I put a couple tires on it, changed the front brake pads, replaced a fusible link in the battery's positive cable, and the lockup converter solenoid had failed right before I traded it, so that was unplugged but it still got incredible mileage. 2.2 4-cylnder and a 3-speed lockup automatic, before the solenoid failed it was getting the EPA rated 25 city, 32 highway. After the solenoid locked up I was getting more like 23 city, 28 highway. Still great for a 6-passenger car with 270,000 miles!

    I can't complain about any of them. I'd rather have a beat-up $300 GM A-body than a $3000 Accord or Camry ANY DAY.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'd consider an Altima for my next car...

    Don't base your opinion of Nissan of today, on the performance of a 99 Altima, Andre. Nissan has had an unusual share of issues since then - with engines and transmissions going bad in the 70,000 mile range (yes, Engines!), then the Titan/Armada fiasco. Nissan today is more French it seems than Japanese, and their quality and reliability has suffered greatly. I've seen new Altimas come in with significant paint flaws, that required dealer repair to even sell them. That's not the Nissan I remember - and I've always been a fan. Not so for now.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My brother-in-law drives a 2000 Mercedes-Benz S430 but has a 1997 Nissan Altima as his "beater car." The Altima has 210K+ miles on it and has had far less trouble with it than his Benz.

    Sad to see that Nissan too is declining in quality. The newer cars'interiors make the worst of GM look like Lexus. The Titan interior looks and feels so flimsy I could literally tear it apart with my bare hands.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    When my brother got married, his wife had a maroon 1985 Buick Century handed down to her from her father. When his wife got a new LeSabre, my brother used the Century as his "fishing car" for many years afterward. I believe it had something like 265K miles on it when he finally decided to get rid of it. Oh, the car was still running, but I guess there isn't much of a market for high-mileage old cars that smell like fish.

    My best-friend's younger brother also had a 1985 Buick Century, but his was silver. He commuted back and forth from Philadelphia to Atlantic City every day for three years with it without a problem.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Consumer Web site Edmunds.com selects what its editors consider the best values ..........

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061126/BUSINESS01/611260535/10- 14

    Rocky
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester XT made the list. Not surprised, because the design is dated, same wheelbase since 1998 and no redesign since 2003. Most competitors are newer (all?).

    Not a bad price for a very quick turbo and all the stuff you get (heated leather, moonroof, 6CD changer, etc.).

    -juice
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    LOS ANGELES — Ford Motor Co. will unveil a fuel-cell Explorer this week at the Los Angeles Auto Show that it claims can travel more miles on a single hydrogen fill-up than any fuel-cell vehicle on the road.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117694

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Damn, KNEW I should have waited! :cry:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    nv, you have a while yet to worry. It's not like hydrogen is available on every corner pal. Wait 4 or 5 more years and then you can EXPLORE that option if the Explorer is even made then. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Edgy, green, and safe. Gimme a break. All that is is an apology for launching the Fusion without SAC or a hybrid option.

    -juice
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Depends on what one calls new. Personally, I like the previous model of the Stang for its simplicity, and low overall cost of ownership, and will consider buying a used one. Do like the looks of the Fusion/Milan, and they seem like a fair value. That's about it for Ford for the next few years. Well, maybe a better looking FiveHundred, but after buying and driving the PT Cruiser, I am not so sold on tall seat driving. I want to come down to earth again. Great though in some ways. Tall seats are easy on back and good seat position for around town. So in a way, and great town scooter.
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    New Sebring is not going to help matters. They have had some sharp looking cars and trucks though. Not a big fan of too tall doors though. Do appreciate the return of RWD. Cool looking trucks, during an era of bland trucks. Hey, at least some New cars and trucks in a time of bland and boring. The Charger could have been better, and my goodness, what is that Sebring? Hope they survive. My little PT could become an orphaned car, like an Olds. :cry: I am starting to be getting more and more concerned about Ford, and yes, still wondering about GM's fate.

    Ford and GM should have rolled out more RWD cars, with American look to them, years ago. Well, something a little fresher than the Crown Vic, though it has its good points as a work horse. Chrysler 300 was a success. I think more people would like normal windows and lower doors though. If Ford and GM had modern cars, with hints of the past, with RWD, and a little flare, I think they would sell. Not saying the Milan or Fusion is not a good car - it is too much like all the rest though. Breaking into the new look era for an American Revolution, as GM puts it, will require American RWD and FWD cars which are really NEW. I think there are plenty of people bored with the same ol' - same ol' Japan FWD cars for point A to point B driving, and would buy something new and American. Actually, after looking at two year old Cadillac prices, I am surprised that more people just don't buy one used and have a V8 luxury car for the price of an Accord or Camry? If for nothing else, and real horn. :P
    -Loren
  • atlvibeatlvibe Member Posts: 109
    I think two things are on the minds of new car buyers now. R&R. Not rest and relaxation, but Reliability and Resale. The average new car owner does not have the patience and time for domestic products. Also, they furthermore can't stand the heat on the turn around. IMO,the Asians(TOY/HON) are on top of the game as far as keeping people loyal. Another strong contender coming on is Hyunandi. They have a impressive line up and a warranty that backs it up.The used Caddy is a novel idea but not from the new car stand point.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    most new camcords sold are 4 cyl and people bought it for their good FE, even though a 2yr old caddy cost the same and is twice as nice, people who are content with a 4 won't jump to a 8 due to the cost of operation.

    one of my co-worker just bought a used black DTS, ride like a dream and the engine is sweeeet.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    So Loren, you seem not very impressed with DCX's latest product offerings. I always thought Chrysler corp, was your favorite company out of the Big 3. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    There's a guy who lives near my parent's place who had a yellow and black Dodge Charger Hemi SRT8. That car looks awesome. Too bad it's a four-door sedan. It would be really cool if it were a two-door hardtop, but no manufacturer has the guts to build that body style these days.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I agree....No Eldorado, Buick Riveria, Mark VIII, nobody makes a large 2-door coupe anymore at the Big 3.

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, there still IS the Chevrolet Monte Carlo.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    It would be really cool if it were a two-door hardtop, but no manufacturer has the guts to build that body style these days.

    Mercedes Benz still builds 2-door hardtops, but they're a bit on the pricey side. I wonder if some of the European and Japanese manufacturers might still make hardtops for the home market? I do recall seeing pics of some Nissan and Toyota hardtops that never made it to the United States....unless they were just slim-pillar sedans with frameless door windows?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Remember the "pillared hardtops" (ugh, what a contradiction) that Ford used to build in the 1970s? I got to give Chrysler credit for holding on to the hardtop body style longer than everybody else. I believe they still had them through 1978.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well lemko, that car doesn't really fit OUR style does it. This is why I want GM, to make me a hardtop convertible Velite. Now my question to you pal is would you buy a Buick Velite hardtop convertible that seated 4-5 adults with a 400-450hp. Twin-Turbo 3.6 V-6 ????? :shades:

    Rocky
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Remember the "pillared hardtops" (ugh, what a contradiction) that Ford used to build in the 1970s?

    Yeah, as I recall some Electras and Ninety Eights were like that in the late 60's. Maybe some Caddies, too? When GM came out with their new intermediates, they called them "Colonade Hardtops", which might sound all exotic and whatnot, until you learn that all it means is a car with a B-pillar and frameless door windows.

    I got to give Chrysler credit for holding on to the hardtop body style longer than everybody else. I believe they still had them through 1978.

    Yeah, the Chrysler Newport/New Yorker offered both a hardtop sedan and hardtop coupe up through 1978. Many of the coupes, however, had an optional padded landau roof that replaced the roll down rear windows with little opera windows. After that though, Chrysler tried the "pillared hardtop" routine, as well...that's how they referred to the 1979-81 St. Regis, New Yorker, etc. I have an old salesman's "cheat sheet" or whatever you call it for the St. Regis that was designed to help the salesmen push it over something like a Caprice or LTD. One of the supposed advantages they listed was the "pillared hardtop styling"! I think they listed the advantage was that it gave the car a cleaner, customized look, but naturally they didn't mention that they'd be more prone to leaking, easier to break into, and if you rolled down the driver's side window at a high enough speed, the wind flow would suck it out enough so that it wouldn't roll back up right. :blush:

    Chrysler even had a different code in the VIN for the pillared hardtop. Traditionally, "41" denoted 4-door sedan and "43" denoted 4-door hardtop. For the R-body they came up with "42" for the pillared hardtop. I think they did this with the first-gen Neon as well, which also had frameless windows.

    There were a few domestics after 1978 that had hardtop styling, like the 1979 LTD-II/Cougar coupes, the 1979 Mark V, 1979-85 Eldo/Toro/Riv, and 1980-83 Cordoba/Mirada. However, they all had stationary rear windows.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    ...and the GTO if you want rear-wheel drive, plus about half a dozen different Australian-market front and rear clips to choose from in the aftermarket.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The GTO, isn't available for 2007 bumpy.

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Skylines, Cimas, Preseas, and such on the Nissan side were all frameless doors with internal B-pillars by the early '90s. The '80s Passage GT was probably Nissan's last true hardtop.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Sure would!
  • buickboy92buickboy92 Member Posts: 19
    i love my buick regal do you thaink they will remake the GS :D:):)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    i love my buick regal do you think they will remake the GS

    Well I have heard talk of them shoving a V-8 in the LaCrosse. I think they're going to call it the LaCrosse Super, but they could just as easily call it a LaCrosse GS!
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