It probably doesn't show up on the NHTSA because it wasn't a safety recall mandated by the US government. Sure, may have just blown your head gasket and cracked the heads rendering the engine useless, but it probably wouldn't contribute to a crash or reduce the vehicle's safety in a crash.
Ok Ok.... Several posts back, someone suggested that we post some niggling / irritating things we have with our OWN trucks. This information would truly provide useful information for this forum.
I offer the following.... On the 2000 Dakota, the A/C is controlled by way of the setting of the air-direction knob. (blowing the air on the windshield for defrost ALWAYS turns on the A/C compressor.)This is a STUPID design. When the temperature is below 0 degrees F and I want to melt 1/4" of ice off of the windshield, The LAST thing I want is the A/C turned on.
Many Asian vehicles have a separate button to control the A/C compressor independent of airflow-direction. That design is MUCH better.
Friday I got in the mail from Nissan two little plastic "shields" that snap in the door that kind of cover the child lock lever in the rear doors. I guess the gap is big enough for a child's finger to slip back there. Anyway, have any of the other crew cab owners gotten these yet? So as to the TSB's, I wonder if Ford would label this a safety recall or put out a public "bulletin" out about this or keep it like Nissan does "between the owners". I'm not mad at Nissan but, just trying to be fair here, if Ford would make this public and go on record but, some manufactures wouldn't how can you possibly compare the 'numbers'? Just like the argument I've had on a couple of other topics that "sales = quality" you have to consider your sources and what variables play in. What's my point? Simple. If one company makes it policy to report certain items for a certain reason and another company reports different items for different reasons then the baseline isn't the same, where's the constant variable?! In fact reading alot of TSB's thrown around here are the secondary manufacture's fault, some are just discovered over time, most are no big deal...except to those that don't even own that damn vehicle. The reliability issue is ALL opinion anyway. What makes as owners "reliability" experts? Are we comparing it to...past vehicles that we've owned or to what we believe a reliable vehicle 'should' be? Talk about an inconsistent baseline. Lets take that Toyota five year reliability results that was performed by NHSTA, and take the Ford for example. This would be MY take on those numbers. Maybe one conclusion I would put money on would be(if the owners were ALL comparing it to past vehicles): I would bet that more than 85% of the owners were previous owners of Toyotas and with the Ford owners I bet at least 40% of those owners were consumers switching to Ford or willing to give Ford a 'try'. Now is that a fair comparison? NO because comparing what might be a normal occurrence in one brand(no matter what we think about it) to what might not have happened in the other brand isn't a constant variable. Especially if we are about different kinds of models. Like me for example, I've owned several different kinds of trucks in the past, but in March I traded my '95 Acura Legend LS for a '00 Nissan Crew Cab, what do I have to compare my Nissan to? Trucks in the past?, no because one was '86 samuri 4x4, one was a '94 S-10 SS and(my favorite)the third was a '81 Toyota 4x4. No consent variable there. Luckily I've owned 4x4's before and little things I know come with being a truck owner like the tires for example, hard to keep balanced, they're alot easier to throw off balance and alignment. There are several people that I know that have SUV's and complain all the time about this, I tell them that's just part of truck ownership. Those that might not know any different because they always owned cars might consider it a problem...the next thing you know it's a strike against the brand in a survey.
Reliability is not subjective. It is proven by data.
It's based on how often your vehicle has a part that needs to be repaired. It's not that difficult gang.
JD Powers long term quality survey, Consumer Reports, Edmunds. the NHSTA and every other magazine on the planet ranks the Toyota Tacoma the best in FIT and FINISH and reliability.
Why?
Because these trucks require the least amount of repairs, spend the least amount of time in the shops, have the least defects, and run the longest without major repairs, PERIOD.
You said: the NHSTA and every other magazine on the planet ranks the Toyota Tacoma the best in FIT and FINISH and reliability.
NHSTA? Never heard of them. What is the content of their magazine?Where can I get one?
The TSBs you listed proves................? Other then you can cut and paste.
So,you believe the Toyota to be reliable and a decent offroad vehicle.Good for you.But,how does this apply,other then it is another opinion like ANYBODY elses here and carries a little less weight as anbody else's because of your presentation.It demeans your position.IMHO.
Well said Gooba. I can't believe the amount of room he wastes with that crap. So far he's proved nothing except that he knows where to find TSB's whoopeee!
All this prooves is that Spoog reads and believes everything he reads. He probably would buy a Toyota based on what comics books say. what a waste of time. Toyota's are nothing but little toys designed by people who think small. Maybe Spoog will make a decision by himself some day and realized there is more to the truck world than Toyota - does not even sound right as a truck. It sounds like Spoog has been brainwashed. Her buys based on what he reads not what he would really like.
Spoog and his ilk is one of the things that I do not like about Toyotas. Toyota seems to attract a mindless set that cannot function without somebody telling them what to do. They are like the Stepford wifes of vehicles. Look at spoog, whenever he does not get universal consensus that the Toyotas are the best vehicles God ever made, he reels off pages of TSB that nobody care about.
I personally don't feel that Toyota has any soul. They can make good vehicles, but to most, a vehicle is an extension of our souls. When has Toyota made anything like a PT Cruiser or Viper. I can think of no radical designs or innovations that they have made. And spoog, before you go spouting that these are only rehashed old design, remember that there is a risk to bringing these designs on the market. In the early 70s, Ford, Dodgea and Chevy had extended cab designs that were poor sellers. Dodge and Chevy dropped theirs. Ford decided to continue it with the new 79 body style and even snazzed it up. You can see the market effect today. If I bought according to the NHTSB, Consumer Reports and the like, I wopuld be driving a USED car that has a high crash worthiness factor and gets great gas maileage.
Now, now what hipocracy! I have been reading Spoogs posts for a long time and have been irritated by them but it seems like they have struck a nerve with some. It is funny to see some of you resort to name calling in the same post you complain about the content of anothers post. Generalizing about the owners of a certain manufacturers vehicle only reflects on one person and that is you. I would never consider making a comment about Dodge oeners, or Chevy owners, or whoever. If you have time to formulate an opinion about things like that then you should probably spend more time using your beloved truck and less time talking about it.
When debating, intelligent adults attack the logic or point trying to be made by the other person, not the person.
P.S. I would not mention the PT Cruiser in a debate if I were you.
Just wanted to mention, I don't care about what the government or what magazines have to say, I say enjoy what you buy, take care of it and it will take care of you.
All vehicles are good, some a little diffrent from the others.
Has it come down to this, or can we all be objective.
Exactly, they are all different and appeal to different people depending on there intended use.
I guess "soul" in terms of a truck means the likelyhood that it will have a sticker of some cartoon character pissing on another vehicle manufacturer's logo.
Nevermind reliability and capabillity, I want a truck with "soul".
Rassom1 I don't know, it seems as though some don't play well with others. I would like to think that we could all be objective. I know there are faults with my truck as I know the rest of you have faults with yours. It shouldn't be a big deal to share them but, to me it has alot more 'weight' or 'meaning' when a Ranger(or any brand for that matter) owner says that there is a 'quirk' with something than someone who points to what some magazine article says or safety test. I think it would be nice to talk about OUR OWN trucks w/o worrying about what other owners of another brand will say to prove us wrong. But this topic is a 'war' so be it I guess.
spoog, don't mean to burst your bubble, but 'reliability' is 'subjective' they ask you the owner to rate the problems and reliability of you vehicle.
Check this article out. Wonder who is going to end up blamed after all. What a crazy situation. There was a local(Tampa,FL) pediatrician killed in Texas this past week driving his Explorer to Calif. It rolled because of tire failure. What ashame this physician was very popular and donated alot of his time with poor children. But check this article out. http://www.sptimes.com/News/082100/Worldandnation/Rollover_fear_tied_to.shtml
Thanks Al, you're right some 'Real' data because you drive one everyday not like some jerk off at a magazine. Who drives one every now and then(even on their long term test) plus most of these magazines are 'car' magazines. I guess some people need constant reinforcement of why they bought the vehicle they bought, they probably didn't buy it because of their own reasons but rather, because some article told them to.
You are correct on your links.That is a government department that looks into thse issues. What spoog has consistently posted is NHSTA.The closest to a gov agency is New Hampshire School Teachers Association.He wants to deal in facts.Get his facts straight.
For those who think that I was name calling because of my remarks, I just expressed my opinion about the vehicle and kept from expressing my full opinion about spoog. It is like trying to have a conversation about a subject you like and constantly having a whining kid demand attention about nothing. We are here because of our interest in the current crop of compact pickups and a desire to visit others of similar nature. It is OK to say that you have not liked a feature about a brand or vehicle, but there are no bad trucks, just the occasional lemon by every manufacturer.
mahi: I wonder about the long term implications of the Firestone problem. I am not a Firestone fan, but it is an old established brand name. The way the lawyers are moving in and making demands that are not possible, I can envision a major dive for Firestone. At the least, I expect that when this is over, you might expect the Decatur plant to be shut down. The bad publicity will create a major withdrawal of manufacturers support, which will cause plant slowdowns or closings. No one has mentioned this in the news, but if the management of the plant did use old unservicable rubber as mentioned, how do you deal with who made that decision? Criminal charges would be difficult but not unheard of. Lawsuit? The lawyers will go after the big money, not an employee who would have nothing after attorney fees. It is a great philosophy subject, but hardly comforting to the friends and families of the victims.
There may be even further implications on the tire issue.What some people should be asking more about is why did the majority of the deaths occur on the Explorer.This is not meant as a bash at Ford.If I was an owner of an Explorer and I replaced the Firestone tires with say Goodyear Eagles,I would still be worried about what would happen if that tire blew out.I think there should be other tests to see what causes those Explorers to turn over if a tire blows out,and what modifications can be done to help prevent them from turning over.If not,then I would be getting rid of my Explorer.
It's just simple physics. A vehicle with a higher center of gravity, such as an SUV, can be rolled easier.
I rolled a Blazer a few years back, and I was only going 40mph. I skidded, hit a 6ft deep ditch, and endo'd her right over.
Ya want less chance of rolling? Then, get a car.
A close relative of mine who owns a body shop has told me through his countless real world experiences with wrecks that large sedans are the safest vehicles on the road. A few years back I asked him what the safest vehicle on the road was, and he believed it to be an Olds Aurora.
I noticed that your question asking why Toyota truck owners are so "hated" has been deleted (#342 or #343). Let me toss in my 2 cents and hopefully my response won't be erased...
I know that personally, I do not "hate" Toyota truck owners. What I do find irritating is that some, but not all, Toyota owners find it necessary to constantly remind the non-Toyota owners how superior they think their trucks are to everyone elses. The main case in point is the TSB postings about the Dakota. And this is coming from a particular poster who originally referred to the Dakota as "formidable" but now calls it "very, very, very, poorly built." This not only ruins the credibility of that poster, but generates animosity in those who read it. I guess it is a case of all Toyota truck owners taking the heat because of the misadventures of a few. That is unfortunate. On a related note - I also find it interesting that no Toyota owner has stepped forward and accepted mahimahi's challenge to describe a "quirk" that their truck might possess. I can recall postings of Frontier, Ranger, and Dakota owners. But none from Tacoma owners. If I am incorrect about this, my bad. However, I think it speaks volumes...
I know I metioned this a post in the Sport trac vs. Crew Cab topic. But, I had a family that bought a 1996 22ft Aquasport Center Console fishing boat from me. He picked it up with his brand new 1997 Tahoe. I warned him that although this boat and trailer rig was well within his towing capacity that he was working with a heavy short wheelbase vehicle. Two weeks later he rolled it with his whole family inside on I-10. He was going 70 mph when somebody pulled in front of him and the right trailer tires(tamdem axle) drifted off the pavement(barely) he paniced and yanked the steering wheel to the left, causing the whole rig to start 'fish-tailing' he then decides to hit the brakes, the truck then pulls left into the median where the rig, two weeks old flips in the median. He ended up selling his 'new' rig that the insurance replaced (the entire rig by the way)because the family was trumatized. Of course with this story I find serveral contributing factors like INEXPERIENCE in towing, towing with the wrong vehicle, towing 15mph over the trailer's capacity. But this might not have happened or been harder to do if he had been towing with a 2wd full-size extended cab pick up. To me that makes the best tow vehicle.
Although cthompson21, I gree with your relative about the full size car, I happen to think that the 2wd full size extended cab pick up has the best of all the worlds. Except that they don't go so far offroad, do they? I'm not really a big SUV fan eventhough everybody I know has one, I just think that they give alot of people a 'false' sense of "truckness". This can make it dangerous for the rest of us. I see so many SUV's way overloaded with all sorts of trailers from the hudge tandem-axle lawn trailers to big camper trailers to 25ft boats on the back.
I noticed that the Taco owners haven't participated in the 'quirks' also. Maybe they don't have any or maybe they're in fear that we will hold it against them. This is what I was referring to when I was talking about admitting to owning a bad product if they mentioned something bad about it. Those of us 'secure' with our purchase don't have to worry about that. I think that is what all this conflict is about. Most of us can't understand why a select few can't admit that 'their' truck manufacturer makes trucks that break too!
I bought my Dakota 4x4 new (92), and have a few observations concerning it. I will finally be getting rid of it within the next few days on a trade in for a new truck.
That piece of junk has easily been the worst vehicle I have ever owned and I will NEVER buy another Dodge as long as I live. I liked a lot about it, it was fairly well built structurally, it was comfortable to drive, decent power, easy on fuel, but it was about a 50% chance of it running long enough to get where I was going. This pile of junk has lived in the shop. It has cost thousands of dollars to keep running, and I can't trust it to drive to the store without breaking down.
It has had a glitch in the electronics almost since it was new and it seems to be unfixable, by me or the local dealership. It has been through 4 computers, 3 fuel pumps, at least one of every single sensor or electronic gizmo on the truck, the wiring harness has been checked several times and bits and pieces of it replaced, all grounds checked and some extra ground straps added, new distributor, probably other stuff that I have forgot, and it still won't go across town without quitting.
I,ve had enough, I don't care if it is a Toyota, Ford, Chev., whatever, it will be an improvement over the Dakota from Hell.
Now my ol, 65 F100, there was a truck, but I digress...
Thanks for the 'real' data. Sorry that you've had bad luck with you're Dodge I hope with whatever brand that you go with you don't have electrical problems...those are the worst no matter what brand you have. Did you ever persue the Lemon Law? I know if I had continuing electrical problems I would, 'cuase those are hardly ever fixed.
Just curious, but where did you get information that all of these other SUV's on the road that had a tire blow out never flipped over?
I think that Ford put too small of a tire on the Explorer in the first place. When you add too small of a tire to a 4000lb vehicle, underinflation, hot weather, and high speeds (I believe most of these cases was well over 70mph) you're only asking for trouble.
Yeah, but how about that so called 'under inflation' issue. If there really is a 'memo' floating around Ford since the Explorer came out came out in 1990...kind of suspicious, right?
I own both a Ford and a Toyota. The Ranger bounces more than I like off road, the tie rod end gave out at about 25,000 miles, the paint is already chipping in some areas (after just 2 1/2 years), and it came with Firestone Wilderness tires. As for my Tacoma, except for the fact that the oil filter is in a stupid location and position, there are no quirks that I've found as yet. That may be why no one has responded to your challenge.
As far as the Firestone tire issue, I find it interesting that Ford is letting Firestone take all the blame. Ford has been paying off claims for years on those tires and even recalled them in several middle eastern countries a few years back. Now they're trying to act surprised that there's a problem.
Check out this site and you'll see that the problem is not just the size of the tire although that certainly doesn't help the situation. There have been problems with many sizes of the ATX and Wilderness tire. http://www.strategicsafety.com/mainindex.html
The tire size is not the problem. My 91 F150SC has the same size and has not had any problems. It also came with Goodyears. The problem is that almost all of that particular model and factory output was devoted to the Ford Explorer. Ford is making efforts to take care of its customers. Ford is shutting down the Explorer lines at three factories, in order to ship those tires to dealers. This at a time when the Explorer is selling at its highest in many months. I cannot say that Firestone is making as much effort as I would like. I do not know if it has to do with the Bridgestone ownership.
Car manufacturers, domestic and foreign, specify what they demand in components, perform spot checks, but mostly rely on contractors for QC. When a contractor fails them, the auto maker takes the blame. At least Ford is making major effort to correct the problem.
I took a look at that Stategic Safety site. It is a Ralph Nader support site for lawyers. It is no wonder they want to include Ford in their theories. Lawyers are real good about distorting the truth and Ralph Nader is the biggest flake of all time.
Ok, I too dont like the placement of the Oil Filter on my Tacoma. I also dont like how air conditioner turns on when the dial is set to defrost.I wish you could get a regular cab with a v6 and 5sp. I wish they would include a clock in every truck they sell regardless of what packages or trim level you choose and like many domestic owners have mentioned I wish you could choose your options and not have to rely on convenience packages and so on. I wish they still had a solid front axle or at least for the TRD.
At the beginning of this mess Ford was diverting the blame to Firestone. As was previously posted, Ford previously replaced the tires in other countries as described in this excerpt form the BlueOvalNews:
"But what Mr. Nasser failed to explain is why Ford Motor Company has replaced the tires in at least a dozen countries including: Venezuela, Ecuador, Thailand, Malaysia, Colombia, Saudi Arabia2 and why Ford Motor Company has not done the same in the United States? It could be attributed to the fact that Ford would be forced to recall some 5 million models that have used the Firestone ATX, ATXII and Wilderness AT3 tires.5 Some consumer protection groups are arguing that Ford's decision to recall tires in other countries has something to say about their confidence in the Firestone tires."
Yes Ford has stepped up there involvement in alleviating this problem. But they did try to pass the blame when they had found it important enough in the past to deal with the problem themselves but would not mention it to the American public who they continued to sell vehicles to with the tires they knew to be defective.
I don't think tire size, nor inflation pressure has anything to do with it. Firestone makes sub-par tires, and Ford definitely could have acted more quickly. Firestone tried to dump some of the blame on Ford when it claimed the tires should be inflated closer to 30 psi. (ford had recommended owners inflate the tires to 26 psi) 4 psi should not cause a tire tread to seperate. In today's Wall Street Journal, Goodyear came to Ford's defense. they've been recommending 26 psi on their tires for years, and have never had any problems. a tire would have to be severely underinflated to cause these kinds of problems.
Why is Ford to blame for a problems with Firestone tire? The tire manufacturer is the one who built and sold the defective tire. The deal in other countries has no correlation with the problem here as far as Ford's responsibility. Different countries have different product liability rules and different ways of handling problems. It is very easy to say that Ford should have seen it coming, but history is full "they should have seen it coming". How many husbands/wives 'should have seen it coming' when their spouses left them. What I would like to see all manufacturers do, is find ways to better the ways of detecting such problems with all their contract parts. The only reason Ford is taking so much heat is that this particular tire has been almost exclusively assigned to one vehicle. If it had been another facotory or model or brand, the tire could have been on any vehicle....Dodge, Chevy, Nissan or Toyota.
Is there a Toyota owner running this site?Where did post #339 go? Besides it being a little Pro Dakota.I don't know why it got deleted..Spoog must have gotten his hands on it.It made to much sense.. Allen-
It is VERY VERY simple. Ford new about problem, did nothing untill news story, then pushed blame to Firestone, then when public says that is not enough they put some Australian executive on a commercial claiming how concerned Ford is for everyones safety. If they were so concerned for safety they would have: 1)notified public of problem when they learned about it, 2)stopped selling / producing vehicles with the tires they knew to be defective. Next thing you know automobile companies are going to make the consumers life a living hell by denying responsibillity for brake failures or airbag defects becuase they did not make them. If you make the decision to equip your vehicles with a certain brand of tire then sell it as original equipment you better stand behind them. Now Ford is trying to take credit for their involvent in fixing this mess after covering the problem up in the first place.
By the way. There were some problems with alot of the Wrangler GSA's sold on Tacoma TRD's. Some were very rough riding. Goodyear would not admit there was a problem but Toyota would replace even going so far as to replace with BFG AT's a more expensive tire. So there is a precedence and one that involved a quality control issue not a safety issue like this.
"I guess "soul" in terms of a truck means the likelyhood that it will have a sticker of some cartoon character pissing on another vehicle manufacturer's logo.
Nevermind reliability and capabillity, I want a truck with "soul".
LOL!!!! This is the best thing I have ever read on these forums.
Reliability data is brought about by hard data and testing.
Consumer reports gets their data from the NHSTA and other sources.
The JD powers long term quality study is by folks who drive a vehicle fore 5 yeras SPECIFICALLY for testing it's reliabilty. Defects, safet recalls, TSB's and other factors decide this in the end.
Bottom line, Toyota makes the most reliable, best built trucks, period.
Ever watch those wildlife documentaries?
It's always a Toyota truck or a Land Rover.
They don't have repair shops on every corner in Africa...............................
\\ It has had a glitch in the electronics almost since it was new and it seems to be unfixable, by me or the local dealership. It has been through 4 computers, 3 fuel pumps, at least one of every single sensor or electronic gizmo on the truck, the wiring harness has been checked several times and bits and pieces of it replaced, all grounds checked and some extra ground straps added, new distributor, probably other stuff that I have forgot, and it still won't go across town without quitting.\\
Thanks for the honest post Dcooper. Dodge definately is at the bottom of the barrel in reliability and quality.
If you want well built, quality vehicles, you are going to have to go with Toyota or Nissan.
If you want to know more about the Ranger, read the Edmunds.com long term Ranger test.....Im sure you dont want more of the same.......
Bigal, What happened with your post? Meredith didn't like it huh? Maybe she could answer why it was scribbled?
Alright alright...I've got another quirk. Now this one I have no excuse for because I definitely KNEW about it before I bought my truck. It is...the 16inch SE wheels/rims! I thought they would grow on me. But, it seems that they are getting uglier each time I see them. I would like to bend one so I could have an excuse to by different ones...I'm just kidding I know that's a bit extreme. I wish a tire manufacturer made a 31" tire in a 16" rim configuration I would go ahead and replace them soon. But I guess I will have to drop the big money on new rims and tires when the tires wear out.
mvig: First, this Ford knew. Ford knew what? They admitted to problems with certain countries that was attributed to running the tires well below recommended inflation levels. None of the data from these countries was attributed to tire design or construction problems. QC problems maybe, but most of these happened before the problem period of the ATs from the Decatur plant. Ford and every other manufacturer looks at trends. Corporations and Governments move slowly because there is much inertia to a large group. This event had not shown on the trend radar long enough for routine decision making. The lawyers made this a media event before the Gov't and Ford had a chance to study the information that they were getting. The alligators want F & F to more and more. They would not be satisfied unless all Firestone tires made in the last ten years were replaced for free and then would go on about the replacement tires. As for stop making the vehicles with the defective tires, the tires were made several years ago and many of accidents were this summer. What do you think is being used as a replacement tire? Firestone ATs made recently which have a normal incident rate. As for testing the tires, according to my estimates, only one in 43,000 tires are reported as causing an accident. That is only .007%.
You want Ford to replace all 6.5M tires immediately. Shutting down the entire production of explorers and rangers for a week is only going to add 70,000 tires to the mix. It will help, but for them to shut down until all the tires are replaced is not realistic, especially to those who would be out of jobs during this. Do not forget that those tires are going to cost $325M. You expect Ford to pay for this, even tho Firestone was the one who failed to produce a tire that meet Ford's specifications?
You need to remember that while everyone is speculating about the problem, nobody has any evidence of what and why. Like most failures, this will probably be an accumulation of minor faults that triggered a reactive failure. They have recently decided that the crash of the 747 several years ago off the east coast was probably caused by a wiring problem inside the fuel tank. After millions of dollars in investigation, they still don't know. Remember the theories going around that it was a bomb, terrorist missile, U.S. missile, etc. And there were lawsuits being filed on all these theories. According to your premise, Boeing should have shutdown all 747 flights until the determination was made this week.
If my family was killed by these tires, I would be suing Firestone for making a defective tire, but I would not be kidding myself. We have these romantic notions about the noble fighters against the corporate baddies. The only problem is that the ones going against the corporations are often the real bad characters using a cause to make them money or promote their agenda.
I agree with you that lawsuits and litigousness make this a complicated matter and are the real root of this not being handled logically. But if lawsuits/lawyers are the evil here then just think about how many lawyers work for Ford and they are the ones with something to lose. I dont know for a fact but it is my opinion that Ford knew more about this last year then anyone but them an Firestone know now. Maybe they should put a sticker on the cars with Firestones that say "Driving on these tires maybe hozardous to your health". Thats all from me.
Let's face reality Steve. Ford has been settling claims involving the tires for several years. Ford was covering up the problem by requiring the injured party to remain quiet on the problem. CBS News ran an investigation exposing the problem. If Ford and Firestone weren't caught, the problem would still be going on. I see no defense for Ford's actions in this case.
You mentioned about the defrost.My Frontier has a seperate a/c button,but when I put it in defrost the a/c automatically turns on.Most vehicles are that way.The a/c comes on as it is the fastest way to remove the humidity from inside the passenger compartment.
GM accused of safety defects On Friday, GM said financier Carl Icahn plans to buy more than $15M worth of stock ATLANTA — General Motors is accused by a former company safety inspector of selling thousands of vehicles with life-threatening defects. The inspector alleges he was reassigned after reporting the flaws. Bill McAleer, a 30-year employee of the world's largest automaker, says in a whistleblower's lawsuit that his managers refused to act after newly manufactured GM vehicles with improperly secured safety fasteners were found in random audits. ''Audit results show that in excess of 30,000 vehicles having safety defects were delivered to North American customers,'' the suit says. McAleer doesn't know whether any fatalities or serious accidents resulted from the alleged defects, his attorney said. GM attorneys said the company dealt with the safety questions and that McAleer's transfer was planned before he reported finding defects. McAleer, 51, who lives in Woodstock, Georgia, and works with GM suppliers in Alabama, seeks back pay, benefits and interest, and unspecified compensatory and punitive damages.
Comments
I offer the following....
On the 2000 Dakota, the A/C is controlled by way of the setting of the air-direction knob. (blowing the air on the windshield for defrost ALWAYS turns on the A/C compressor.)This is a STUPID design. When the temperature is below 0 degrees F and I want to melt 1/4" of ice off of the windshield, The LAST thing I want is the A/C turned on.
Many Asian vehicles have a separate button to control the A/C compressor independent of airflow-direction. That design is MUCH better.
So as to the TSB's, I wonder if Ford would label this a safety recall or put out a public "bulletin" out about this or keep it like Nissan does "between the owners". I'm not mad at Nissan but, just trying to be fair here, if Ford would make this public and go on record but, some manufactures wouldn't how can you possibly compare the 'numbers'?
Just like the argument I've had on a couple of other topics that "sales = quality" you have to consider your sources and what variables play in.
What's my point? Simple. If one company makes it policy to report certain items for a certain reason and another company reports different items for different reasons then the baseline isn't the same, where's the constant variable?! In fact reading alot of TSB's thrown around here are the secondary manufacture's fault, some are just discovered over time, most are no big deal...except to those that don't even own that damn vehicle. The reliability issue is ALL opinion anyway. What makes as owners "reliability" experts? Are we comparing it to...past vehicles that we've owned or to what we believe a reliable vehicle 'should' be? Talk about an inconsistent baseline. Lets take that Toyota five year reliability results that was performed by NHSTA, and take the Ford for example. This would be MY take on those numbers. Maybe one conclusion I would put money on would be(if the owners were ALL comparing it to past vehicles): I would bet that more than 85% of the owners were previous owners of Toyotas and with the Ford owners I bet at least 40% of those owners were consumers switching to Ford or willing to give Ford a 'try'. Now is that a fair comparison? NO because comparing what might be a normal occurrence in one brand(no matter what we think about it) to what might not have happened in the other brand isn't a constant variable. Especially if we are about different kinds of models. Like me for example, I've owned several different kinds of trucks in the past, but in March I traded my '95 Acura Legend LS for a '00 Nissan Crew Cab, what do I have to compare my Nissan to? Trucks in the past?, no because one was '86 samuri 4x4, one was a '94 S-10 SS and(my favorite)the third was a '81 Toyota 4x4. No consent variable there. Luckily I've owned 4x4's before and little things I know come with being a truck owner like the tires for example, hard to keep balanced, they're alot easier to throw off balance and alignment. There are several people that I know that have SUV's and complain all the time about this, I tell them that's just part of truck ownership. Those that might not know any different because they always owned cars might consider it a problem...the next thing you know it's a strike against the brand in a survey.
It's based on how often your vehicle has a part that needs to be repaired. It's not that difficult gang.
JD Powers long term quality survey, Consumer Reports, Edmunds. the NHSTA and every other magazine on the planet ranks the Toyota Tacoma the best in FIT and FINISH and reliability.
Why?
Because these trucks require the least amount of repairs, spend the least amount of time in the shops, have the least defects, and run the longest without major repairs, PERIOD.
the NHSTA and every other
magazine on the planet ranks the Toyota Tacoma the
best in FIT and FINISH and reliability.
NHSTA? Never heard of them. What is the content of their magazine?Where can I get one?
The TSBs you listed proves................? Other then you can cut and paste.
So,you believe the Toyota to be reliable and a decent offroad vehicle.Good for you.But,how does this apply,other then it is another opinion like ANYBODY elses here and carries a little less weight as anbody else's because of your presentation.It demeans your position.IMHO.
It sounds like Spoog has been brainwashed. Her buys based on what he reads not what he would really like.
I personally don't feel that Toyota has any soul. They can make good vehicles, but to most, a vehicle is an extension of our souls. When has Toyota made anything like a PT Cruiser or Viper. I can think of no radical designs or innovations that they have made. And spoog, before you go spouting that these are only rehashed old design, remember that there is a risk to bringing these designs on the market. In the early 70s, Ford, Dodgea and Chevy had extended cab designs that were poor sellers. Dodge and Chevy dropped theirs. Ford decided to continue it with the new 79 body style and even snazzed it up. You can see the market effect today.
If I bought according to the NHTSB, Consumer Reports and the like, I wopuld be driving a USED car that has a high crash worthiness factor and gets great gas maileage.
When debating, intelligent adults attack the logic or point trying to be made by the other person, not the person.
P.S. I would not mention the PT Cruiser in a debate if I were you.
The NHSTA is a government site that crash tests cars, keeps track of defects and reliability data.
They are a non-profit organization.
The fact that the Tacoma is the most reliable and best offroading stock pickup available is not "opinion", it is FACT.
" The Toyota Tacoma TRD handled the rough stuff better than any vehicle we have driven"
--4Wheeler.com
" The Toyota Tacoma yet again wins the 5 years reliability test"
----JD powers
All vehicles are good, some a little diffrent from the others.
Has it come down to this, or can we all be objective.
The NHSTA is a government site that crash tests
cars, keeps track of defects and reliability data.
They are a non-profit organization.
There is no such site.There is no government NHSTA site.Get your facts straight.
better than any vehicle we have driven"
--4Wheeler.com
I disagree with that.The Hummer handles the rough stuff best.
I guess "soul" in terms of a truck means the likelyhood that it will have a sticker of some cartoon character pissing on another vehicle manufacturer's logo.
Nevermind reliability and capabillity, I want a truck with "soul".
http://www.nhtsa.com
and
http://www.nhtsa.gov/
Seems like "a government site that crash tests
cars, keeps track of defects and reliability data.
They are a non-profit organization" to me.
I don't know, it seems as though some don't play well with others.
spoog,
don't mean to burst your bubble, but 'reliability' is 'subjective' they ask you the owner to rate the problems and reliability of you vehicle.
http://www.sptimes.com/News/082100/Worldandnation/Rollover_fear_tied_to.shtml
What spoog has consistently posted is NHSTA.The closest to a gov agency is New Hampshire School Teachers Association.He wants to deal in facts.Get his facts straight.
mahi: I wonder about the long term implications of the Firestone problem. I am not a Firestone fan, but it is an old established brand name. The way the lawyers are moving in and making demands that are not possible, I can envision a major dive for Firestone. At the least, I expect that when this is over, you might expect the Decatur plant to be shut down. The bad publicity will create a major withdrawal of manufacturers support, which will cause plant slowdowns or closings. No one has mentioned this in the news, but if the management of the plant did use old unservicable rubber as mentioned, how do you deal with who made that decision? Criminal charges would be difficult but not unheard of. Lawsuit? The lawyers will go after the big money, not an employee who would have nothing after attorney fees. It is a great philosophy subject, but hardly comforting to the friends and families of the victims.
I rolled a Blazer a few years back, and I was only going 40mph. I skidded, hit a 6ft deep ditch, and endo'd her right over.
Ya want less chance of rolling? Then, get a car.
A close relative of mine who owns a body shop has told me through his countless real world experiences with wrecks that large sedans are the safest vehicles on the road. A few years back I asked him what the safest vehicle on the road was, and he believed it to be an Olds Aurora.
I know that personally, I do not "hate" Toyota truck owners. What I do find irritating is that some, but not all, Toyota owners find it necessary to constantly remind the non-Toyota owners how superior they think their trucks are to everyone elses. The main case in point is the TSB postings about the Dakota. And this is coming from a particular poster who originally referred to the Dakota as "formidable" but now calls it "very, very, very, poorly built." This not only ruins the credibility of that poster, but generates animosity in those who read it. I guess it is a case of all Toyota truck owners taking the heat because of the misadventures of a few. That is unfortunate. On a related note - I also find it interesting that no Toyota owner has stepped forward and accepted mahimahi's challenge to describe a "quirk" that their truck might possess. I can recall postings of Frontier, Ranger, and Dakota owners. But none from Tacoma owners. If I am incorrect about this, my bad. However, I think it speaks volumes...
Although cthompson21, I gree with your relative about the full size car, I happen to think that the 2wd full size extended cab pick up has the best of all the worlds. Except that they don't go so far offroad, do they?
That piece of junk has easily been the worst vehicle I have ever owned and I will NEVER buy another Dodge as long as I live. I liked a lot about it, it was fairly well built structurally, it was comfortable to drive, decent power, easy on fuel, but it was about a 50% chance of it running long enough to get where I was going. This pile of junk has lived in the shop. It has cost thousands of dollars to keep running, and I can't trust it to drive to the store without breaking down.
It has had a glitch in the electronics almost since it was new and it seems to be unfixable, by me or the local dealership. It has been through 4 computers, 3 fuel pumps, at least one of every single sensor or electronic gizmo on the truck, the wiring harness has been checked several times and bits and pieces of it replaced, all grounds checked and some extra ground straps added, new distributor, probably other stuff that I have forgot, and it still won't go across town without quitting.
I,ve had enough, I don't care if it is a Toyota, Ford, Chev., whatever, it will be an improvement over the Dakota from Hell.
Now my ol, 65 F100, there was a truck, but I digress...
I think that Ford put too small of a tire on the Explorer in the first place. When you add too small of a tire to a 4000lb vehicle, underinflation, hot weather, and high speeds (I believe most of these cases was well over 70mph) you're only asking for trouble.
As far as the Firestone tire issue, I find it interesting that Ford is letting Firestone take all the blame. Ford has been paying off claims for years on those tires and even recalled them in several middle eastern countries a few years back. Now they're trying to act surprised that there's a problem.
http://www.strategicsafety.com/mainindex.html
Car manufacturers, domestic and foreign, specify what they demand in components, perform spot checks, but mostly rely on contractors for QC. When a contractor fails them, the auto maker takes the blame. At least Ford is making major effort to correct the problem.
"But what Mr. Nasser failed to explain is why Ford Motor Company has replaced the tires in at least a dozen countries including: Venezuela, Ecuador, Thailand, Malaysia, Colombia, Saudi Arabia2 and why Ford Motor Company has not done the same in the United States? It could be attributed to the fact that Ford would be forced to recall some 5 million models that have used the Firestone ATX, ATXII and Wilderness AT3 tires.5 Some consumer protection groups are arguing that Ford's decision to recall tires in other countries has something to say about their confidence in the Firestone tires."
Yes Ford has stepped up there involvement in alleviating this problem. But they did try to pass the blame when they had found it important enough in the past to deal with the problem themselves but would not mention it to the American public who they continued to sell vehicles to with the tires they knew to be defective.
In today's Wall Street Journal, Goodyear came to Ford's defense. they've been recommending 26 psi on their tires for years, and have never had any problems. a tire would have to be severely underinflated to cause these kinds of problems.
Allen-
By the way. There were some problems with alot of the Wrangler GSA's sold on Tacoma TRD's. Some were very rough riding. Goodyear would not admit there was a problem but Toyota would replace even going so far as to replace with BFG AT's a more expensive tire. So there is a precedence and one that involved a quality control issue not a safety issue like this.
likelyhood that it will have a sticker of some
cartoon character pissing on another vehicle
manufacturer's logo.
Nevermind reliability and capabillity, I want a
truck with "soul".
LOL!!!! This is the best thing I have ever read on these forums.
Reliability data is brought about by hard data and testing.
Consumer reports gets their data from the NHSTA and other sources.
The JD powers long term quality study is by folks who drive a vehicle fore 5 yeras SPECIFICALLY for testing it's reliabilty. Defects, safet recalls, TSB's and other factors decide this in the end.
Bottom line, Toyota makes the most reliable, best built trucks, period.
Ever watch those wildlife documentaries?
It's always a Toyota truck or a Land Rover.
They don't have repair shops on every corner in Africa...............................
So far, in under 30,000 miles, their Ranger has been riddled with problems.
HEre is a direct quote from Edmunds:
" The Ranger rattled like a diamondback offroad"
--Edmunds.com
since it was new and it seems to be unfixable, by
me or the local dealership. It has been through 4
computers, 3 fuel pumps, at least one of every
single sensor or electronic gizmo on the truck, the
wiring harness has been checked several times and
bits and pieces of it replaced, all grounds checked
and some extra ground straps added, new
distributor, probably other stuff that I have
forgot, and it still won't go across town without
quitting.\\
Thanks for the honest post Dcooper. Dodge definately is at the bottom of the barrel in reliability and quality.
If you want well built, quality vehicles, you are going to have to go with Toyota or Nissan.
If you want to know more about the Ranger, read the Edmunds.com long term Ranger test.....Im sure you dont want more of the same.......
999 JD powers long term(5 year) reliability test:
http://www.jdpower.com/global/jdpaawards/releases/images/vdi99.gif
Dodge finishes far below average.
#174 of 174: What are the most reliable cars and trucks? (spoog) Fri 11 Aug '00 (06:33 PM)
http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=292&CatID=1
Bigal,
What happened with your post? Meredith didn't like it huh? Maybe she could answer why it was scribbled?
Alright alright...I've got another quirk. Now this one I have no excuse for because I definitely KNEW about it before I bought my truck. It is...the 16inch SE wheels/rims! I thought they would grow on me. But, it seems that they are getting uglier each time I see them. I would like to bend one so I could have an excuse to by different ones...I'm just kidding I know that's a bit extreme. I wish a tire manufacturer made a 31" tire in a 16" rim configuration I would go ahead and replace them soon. But I guess I will have to drop the big money on new rims and tires when the tires wear out.
As for stop making the vehicles with the defective tires, the tires were made several years ago and many of accidents were this summer. What do you think is being used as a replacement tire? Firestone ATs made recently which have a normal incident rate. As for testing the tires, according to my estimates, only one in 43,000 tires are reported as causing an accident. That is only .007%.
You want Ford to replace all 6.5M tires immediately. Shutting down the entire production of explorers and rangers for a week is only going to add 70,000 tires to the mix. It will help, but for them to shut down until all the tires are replaced is not realistic, especially to those who would be out of jobs during this. Do not forget that those tires are going to cost $325M. You expect Ford to pay for this, even tho Firestone was the one who failed to produce a tire that meet Ford's specifications?
You need to remember that while everyone is speculating about the problem, nobody has any evidence of what and why. Like most failures, this will probably be an accumulation of minor faults that triggered a reactive failure. They have recently decided that the crash of the 747 several years ago off the east coast was probably caused by a wiring problem inside the fuel tank. After millions of dollars in investigation, they still don't know. Remember the theories going around that it was a bomb, terrorist missile, U.S. missile, etc. And there were lawsuits being filed on all these theories. According to your premise, Boeing should have shutdown all 747 flights until the determination was made this week.
If my family was killed by these tires, I would be suing Firestone for making a defective tire, but I would not be kidding myself. We have these romantic notions about the noble fighters against the corporate baddies. The only problem is that the ones going against the corporations are often the real bad characters using a cause to make them money or promote their agenda.
GM accused of safety defects
On Friday, GM said financier Carl Icahn plans to buy more than $15M worth of stock
ATLANTA — General Motors is accused by a former company safety inspector of selling thousands of vehicles with life-threatening defects. The inspector alleges he was reassigned after reporting the flaws. Bill McAleer, a 30-year employee of the world's largest automaker, says in a whistleblower's lawsuit that his managers refused to act after newly manufactured GM vehicles with improperly secured safety fasteners were found in random audits. ''Audit results show that in excess of 30,000 vehicles having safety defects were delivered to North American customers,'' the suit says. McAleer doesn't know whether any fatalities or serious accidents resulted from the alleged defects, his attorney said. GM attorneys said the company dealt with the safety questions and that McAleer's transfer was planned before he reported finding defects. McAleer, 51, who lives in Woodstock, Georgia, and works with GM suppliers in Alabama, seeks back pay, benefits and interest, and unspecified compensatory and punitive damages.