War of the Compacts: Frontier, Ranger, Tacoma, S10, Dakota, B-Series, & Hombre



  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    What about the trade defecit with Japan? Let's hear a logical explanation on why Japan won't trade fairly with the US.
    Another good day at work,A tin knocker's apprentice told me his 1st day on the job they sent him home because of his Nissan Frontier brand new too.He traded in for a new explorer which he says in his opinion is a much better truck than the Nissan,Almost as good as a story as gluing a peice of plywood on the windsheild of a tacoma or the secretary who came out to find her camry sitting on 4 milk crates.I love the USA,Its to bad that Toyota builds a billion dollar plant for the Tundra then pays its non UAW workers 1/3 less than they should be making.Every one thinks they're helping out,all hey are really doing is saving on tarriffs.its cheaper for them to assemble them in the US then it is to ship them here.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    yes it is nice that Toyota has created jobs in the US but believe me its only to save them money.
  • hulk66hulk66 Member Posts: 37
    no the ford off-road package is a joke! the trd package is way better than any ranger package.
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    So,Toyota decides to invest 1 billion dollars into a plant in the US and this is a bad thing?That is alot of money put into that local and state economy.They are also putting people to work at 2/3 of UAW wages as you said.That is better then welfare and unemployment.I do not care for the reason.They at least are making an investment in the US and its people while the Big Three are continually moving their facilities outside of the US.When was the last time that the big three built a billion dollar facility in the US?
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Point is if they didn't have to they wouldn't,I never said it was a bad thing,My original question was who could give some positive insight on the trade defecit with Japan.If you think about it there are plenty of people on welfare and unemployment because of the trade defecit.I happen to be a Union employee and I have plenty of access to literature about job losses to other Countries,You can blame the republicans and Nafta for the jobs lost to Mexico and Canada for us Americans.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Japan is a totally different country than the US. In many ways, inflation, housing, population so forth. Business too,is completely different. To them business is 'war'. In this country all of our businesses for the most part work independently, in Japan they work as a team- this is just their mentality it's Japanese companies against the world. Hell, there's only something like a 80-90% pay differential between the lowest mailroom worker to a top executive. All the money is put back into the business.
    Even if they would let US businesses import more who's to say the population could afford the imports(cars radios or whatever). Most of Japan's working population doesn't own a car(no where to park them or drive them even if they could afford them). Over 90% of their population lives in apartments or condos(where there's a waiting list). These are all reasons why we don't NEED to export our vehicles, we have the BEST economy and NATION our cars are built have the most options available another thing that might make them sell overseas(if there are people here waiting 6-8 months for a Sport trac imagine how long the wait would be in Japan). Besides if the Americans are selling 4:1 against the Japanese brands why do they need to export? Japan probably sells as many cars here as they do in their own country :)
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I believe that most of the friction in the trade deficit with Japan is that they don't allow (or allow only a very little amount) of basic consumable goods in the country. These would be things like grains, produce, livestock, lumber, cotton, and many other raw materials that are cheap and plentiful in the US. They fight to support their Japanese producer who supplies much less quantity of product at higher prices.

    Also, I've read in a few different articles that Japanese auto companies sell the majority of their product in North America.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I think the last time one of the Big3 built a multi-billion dollar facility in the US was when those crazy folks in Spring Hill, TN started building those plastic cars.

    I'm probably wrong, though.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Unfortunately, the deficit is not a simple matter to understand and I see misconceptions in the previous posts. Japan purchases about 60 billion dollars of goods each year from the U. S. and invests much more in this country. Most of the solutions I hear from the Unions and such (increasing tariffs, etc,)would make the situation worse. Try this link to get a better understanding of what is really happening.
  • michaelb9michaelb9 Member Posts: 2
    New user here. I have been reading the posts here - most entertaining and sometimes informative! I need a pickup for comuting to work, weekend projects, and light hauling & towing. Need ext. cab for kids & tools. Thinking Nissan, Ranger/Mazda B, or Toyota. Wary of Chevy/GM due to reliability. Dakota is a bit roomier but perhaps too pricy. Would love a V6 or V8 & 4WD, but budget does not allow. So, I am looking at a 4 cyl, 5 sp ext cab & plan to keep for 10 years (like my cars). I am well aware of the brand loyalties here, but what I have picked up here & elsewhere is that Toyota & Nissan have best reliability, but Ranger/Mazda is good too. Ranger has best safety rating, but has the weakest engine. Toyota seems higher in price. Nissan seems to have a good combo of decent power (143 HP) for a 4, & good reliability. Ranger/Mazda has good safety rating, but no power (saw posts about this). Just saw closeout deals on 2000 models: $13,500 for Ranger XLT Super Cab, similar for Nissan Frontier. Tacoma & Dakota prices are higher. Any advice or other experiences with 2WD 4 cyl ext. cab models? Thanks.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    The auto industry complains a lot about the imbalance with Japan but their own mistakes caused much of the problem and gave the sales away to Europe. We tried to sell them cars that were too big and had the steering wheel on the wrong side. This is from an article on the CATO Inst. page:

    Concerning automobiles, the U.S. assertion that low market share is only the result of unfair
    Japanese trade practices will not endure any analysis of the history of American automobile companies’ involvement in the Japanese market. Those companies, by their own admission, have
    rarely exerted much effort to penetrate the Japanese market. As Chrysler chairman Robert Eaton
    stated in 1994, "We expect to be only a niche player. . . . We don’t have any volume or penetration goal [for foreign markets]."

    Until 1993, no American automobile company produced a right-hand-drive vehicle for the Japanese market. Even today, none of the Big Three firms, General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, market models in the small two-liter-and-under class, which is the dominant class in the Japanese
    automobile market. In contrast, the Europeans, whose market penetration is growing rapidly, offer
    more than 100 right-hand-drive models and 124 models in the two-liter-and-under category. In
    1993, European automobiles, mostly German, captured over one-third of the Japanese luxury automarket.
  • thecargonzothecargonzo Member Posts: 31
    Barlitz: 'er wasn't it CLINTON who signed NAFTA?
    Also, how about all those two-tiered wage scale UAW plants. You know, where new workers get about $8 a hour, while the old union fat cats still rake in the dough. Yeah, I bet the Republicans caused that too...

    Scotti81: '00 GMC Sonoma, 4.3L, ZQ-8 Sportside. You are not alone!!

    Michaelb9: You might try seeing if you could move up to the 3.0L six on the Ranger/B3000, true your
    fuel economy will be worse, but the torque advantage over the Nissan is 26lb-ft. A guy at work has the 5spd/3.0L combo, he appreciates the added 'oomph off the line. As you can read above, I believe in GM, reliability has not been a problem for me. You might try giving a GM truck a try. This year Chevy has come out with a base extended cab S-10. Combined with healthy rebates, you might be able to find a real good deal. Yes, it's four does not have the power of the Nissan four, but it gets better mileage, plus you might find one with the optional, rear-opening, third-door. Loading tools in the back is a LOT easier with that feature. Just to be fair, I will mention Ford/Mazda offers this feature on both passenger and driver side. Good luck in you search!
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    I go away for the weekend and look what's happened.
    Bookitty: You got me. I am an engineer by thought process and not a talmudic scholar, so I am usually fair game. Plus I am still filled with the milk of human kindnes because of my new 01.
    Spoog: You can quote stats all you want and just prove to all the proverb about stats being lies and damn lies. Remember Clancy's book 'Debt of Honor'? One of the initiator of an economic war was the Japanese insistance that poor US quality was the reason that had to use their suppliers. Then a quality control problem resulted in numerous highway deaths. We buy our trucks for our needs, not because of the statistics. If statistics is the only pleasure you get from a vehicle, my pity.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    I find your outlook to be ignorant.

    The stats from THE NHSTA ( which is THE safety and defect qualifier in the auto industry) and JD powers are extremely helpful to any intelligent buyer.

    If you want to purchase a reliable vehicle, you have to follow the stats.

    The Bottom line is that Toyota makes the most reliable trucks in the world. If that is what someones need is, they can choose it.

    And not all stats are lies. Please, enough with the conspiracy crap.

    The numbers I posted are an OUTSTANDING way in which a consumer can determine what their needs are balanced with what the facts are on reliability, defects, and recalls.

    Any reasonable human being with half a brain can comprehend this.
  • superjim2000superjim2000 Member Posts: 314
    99 S10 4.3 here.
  • wetwilliewetwillie Member Posts: 129
    I'm convinced you possess one of the qualifications for comprehension, not so sure on the other.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    This topic was great until spoog and Vinny showed up. Bye, everyone.
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    You are just like one of my employees, all full of the facts as you see them, but not a lick of common sense. This is why he is the employee and I am the boss. You can quote til the cows come home, but that is not going to make me buy a Toy. It does not meet the demands of my lifestyle and is IMHO overpriced. I have nothing against Toyota, Nissan or Yugo, I just don't need one.
    As far as conspiracies, you are the only one who has mentioned any. Are you seeing black helicopters? Is your dealer being monitored by the government for selling subversive pickups? The way you quote stats and talk conspiracies, you could be a leader of the DNC. I deal with goverment agencies daily and I can assure you that they are experts are spinning stats to what they want. And most of the ratings of vehicles are done by groups that have an agenda, usually financial.
    To give you an example of the problem with government statistics, Texas and Oklahoma report violations of the Safe drinking Water Act to the EPA. According to the EPA, their stats show that Texas has a much better compliance rate. The difference is that Oklahoma reports the violations as they are issued, Texas waits until the utilities have the chance to correct the problem and only reports those still in violation. Stats are a tool that should be taken with a grain of reality. Trying living in the real world for a change.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    So we shouldn't trust any stats.? I guess we should only discuss how we feel about things then. I'm sure that spoog feels that the Tacoma is the best truck on the road. Is that a better argument? In my opinion, maybe you should listen to your employee a bit closer.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Regarding your question, I'd pick one of two trucks.

    (1) Nissan - good 4-banger, good reliability, should last 10yrs, affordably priced

    (2) Ranger/B-Series - get the 3L upgrade for $400, almost as good as the imports in reliability, much better daily driver & hauler than a 4 when coupled with the 5-speed, very inexpensively priced (just check out some of the closeout deals and rebates/ffinancing), should last 10yrs

    I wouldn't pick a Toyota because:
    - 2wd (not prerunner) is just plain ugly
    - too expensive
    - questionable safety

    I wouldn't pick a Dakota because:
    - their V8s (IMHO) are the only good choices
    - too expensive (see first point)
    - will it last 10yrs? (improving, tho)

    I wouldn't pick an S10 because:
    - The General pi$$es me off
    - will it last 10yrs?
    - wait a year for their new engine lineup
    - styling needs some freshening
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    I listen to all my employees, including the majority who consider that particular one a joke. He is a good worker, but can drive everyone crazy with his off the wall opinions.

    I am not saying ignore stats, just don't bet the farm on them. To throw page after page of stats as proof positive that Toyota is the only good vehicle maker is assine. I am very interested in why a person may like a particular model, but have little respect for someone that tries to use statistics to badmouth someone else's choice. No one has the same needs and therefore we have to make choices based on our needs, not some reports by outside agencies. The intelligent person makes decisions based on his evaluation and a network of information.

    We all buy vehicles based on experience and instinct. Sometimes we are wrong, hopefully we are right most of the time. The majority of vehicles are well made and reliable, but every now and then, a person may get a lemon. Statistics is only a small part of the decision making process and should be treated as such.
  • bigal31bigal31 Member Posts: 189
    Did you buy your Toyota based on stats??If so what %%?...I'll bet the farm that you didn't!You buy on what serves your purpose.

    I think that you need to go out and find those stats to make that buyers remorse (deep sense of guilt) go away.I don' blame you some how you have to justify looking at that thing everyday(Man Are They Ugly)so do yourself a favor and get rid of it.Trade in in on a new QC V8 Dakota,your eyes will thank you..As the JAPANESE say you can still "SAVE FACE"..
    Buy American as much as you can....The Japanese do!
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    OK, I can't argue with that. In your post it appeared that you were throwing out stats. all together. Every truck has it's strong points and your preference has to be based on your individual needs. The Toyota does have a top rate quality record that should be the goal of every automaker though.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    To all the Japanese truck bashers, you can also thank the Japanese for the quality of your American truck. The quality of American cars and trucks has improved considerably over the years because of the higher quality Japanese and European competition.
  • 2drive2drive Member Posts: 90
    cthompson21 - I sure agree that a good V8 and a Dakota costs more, but then I expect to drive my Dakota for 20 years, not just for 10 years!

    Hey, I only got 17 years and 400,000 miles out of my #@%! Dodge Minivan!
  • tacoma_trdtacoma_trd Member Posts: 135
    Barlitz, at the time that I was about to buy a TRD Tacoma I joined this site and made that my name, I never bought one but just never changed my name to anything else. I have a 98 B-Series, I am waiting for the 2001 Rangers. I am a big Tacoma fan but for anyone who says the ranger off road package cant compete with the TRD, In the edmunds review it says they will have the Blistein shocks which is what a TRD has I believe, so I think the new ranger will be very competitive, also with the new SOHC V6
  • michaelb9michaelb9 Member Posts: 2
    cthompson1: good advice about the Ford/Mazda 3.0L, has noticeably better power than 4 cyl. It cost only $350 more by itself, but I'm having trouble finding a 6 cyl without AT or some other option that drives the price up. $13,500 deal for 4 cyl XLT ext cab is tempting, but I'll be thinking about that extra power I'm missing. Nissan 4 cyl does have decent power, but its still not a 6. And local Nissan dealers are not offering as good a deal yet, about $14,500.

    thecargonzo: also thanks for advice. I will check out the Chevy/GM too. Have noticed quite a few in the neighborhood.

    Dakota and Tacoma are out. Thousands more for low end offering of each. At least the Dodge is bigger for the extra money. Tacoma is the smallest truck I've been in, for the most money of any compact. I know many people love them, but I don't get it. maybe too old...
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Keep looking around for that Ranger. I saw a really nice Trailhead package Ranger for 14K (then less at least another 1000 for a rebate or some incredible financing). It has the 4x4 look (higher stance, bigger tires, foglamps, etc...). It had a 3L, 5-speed, LSD, and A/C in silver. It had the cloth seats and the rubberized flooring of the XL. Very nice truck for a very low price. I'll bet it sold quick.

    Give your local dealer the specs you want and have them do a search. Odds are they'll find a truck that meets your basic specs at the very least.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Was it one of those minivans with the plumes of smoke running behind it? :oD

    How long has the current version of the Dakota been out?
  • resqmanresqman Member Posts: 71
    The current Dakota body style was available as a 97 model.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    I'm also waiting on the new Ranger but there are some good deals to be had on a 2000 Ranger,I saw a 4x4 4door with the 4.0 and auto it was an XLT for 16,700 after dealer discounts and rebates.With all that money saved you could easily modify it to your liking for offroading if thats what you like to do.I do plan on some mods with whatever truck I buy,mostly performance and possibly a minor lift.
    Someone posted that Clinton was the one who started NAFTA it wasn't.I'm pretty sure it was Bush if not him then Reagan.Although I liked both presidents especially for there power with the military.I think Gore is the best choice right now if you want the Country to continue to prosper.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Lest we not forget that with Dodge (OVER ALL OTHER TRUCKS AVAILABLE), the body will rust a lot less. Anyone that has spent time driving on salted roads in the winter will attest to this FACT. Dodge uses NEW steel. Many Asian vehicles are built from recycled steel that has impurities.

    Thus, the body will be recognizable after 5-6 years. ;-> This was my #1 priority...BTW
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    The body-style is pretty cool and the available power is great. (Best-sounding V8s in the business.) Decent V6 in the S-series. 4X4 rides a bit rough and steers like a truck.

    BUT Demonstrated by 100s of available trucks to observe on the roads, the FACT remains,
    Rust over the rear wheel-wells is prevalent.

    THERE: I am being an equal-opportunity observer regardless of nameplate on the rig.
  • 2drive2drive Member Posts: 90
    Yes, I know what you mean about those old "smoking" Chrysler minivans. Some owners love 'em so much that they never give them up! My minivan, has not reached that stage yet, however, it does smoke on initial start-up, but not while running! (By the way, it was still going 5,000 miles per quart at 300,000 miles!)

    Actually, the only smokin' Dodge that I have now is that new 4.7L V8 Dakota!!!
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,124
    I can't keep up with this room! Topic changes by the minute.
    TRD package is a joke. The locker can only be engaged in 4low! and per Toyota at 5mph! The limited slips offered by Ford/Nissan/Dodge are always available and don't need to be engaged. Anyone who offroads knows the limited use of lockers and their ability. I would be willing to bet 97% of the TRD owners engage their lockers maybe once a year! Toyota marketing is good, Enjoy the stickers!
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    This topic is quite entertaining.The debates going on about the best truck is quite funny at times.
    I am going to go out on a limb and say that I think the best truck is the one that fits your needs the best.It is the one that you ultimately put your money down because you know that the vehicle will do what you want it to do.It does not matter what I or anybody else thinks about the performance,reliability,statistics,or looks.We did not buy that particular truck for our own reasons,just as you did not buy one of ours for your own reasons.
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Member Posts: 290
    Good post in #233. When it came time to buy a new truck I applied pretty much the same logic and ended up with a new Frontier. Plus, a ton of little subjective things swayed me that way too. I've owned Rangers and S-10's so another reason I went with the Nissan was for something new/different, plus the price was decent.

    Oh yeah, what did you mean by your comment about "The General" in that post? You lost me on that one.
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    Gooba, I'm sorry you are going to have to create another post. Your post make too much sense, and we cannot tolerate that sort of thing in this topic.

  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    My sincerest apologies to all.I did not mean to commit a faux paux. ;-D
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I was referring to GM (aka the General).

    I haven't been happy with the direction that their vehicles have taken over the past few years. Everything is bigger, more plasticy, gaudier, looney toonier, auto-trannied, technologically slower (cams and such), and generally styled like something that came out of the Playdough factory. The only decent car they've got is the Vette. Everything else is the same bland old rehashed frontdriver. Their trucks are decent but nothing special. They haven't been near the forefront of innovation in years and years. For GM fan's sake, I hope they change, or they'll be a less appealing Honda-type of producer minus the S2K.
  • hulk66hulk66 Member Posts: 37
    Enjoy that ford off-road sticker yet?? or did it rub off under the pressure sprayer yet?? (bpeebles) Is this a fact about the new steel?? If so how do you know for sure?? curious!!
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    How does anyone KNOW absolutely anything for sure? I only know what I have read/observed.

    Lets keep in mind that for ANY vehicle I buy, the corrosion-protection is one of my #1 concerns. That said, I feel the best way to determine a vehicles strengths in this area is to observe what is presently on the roads today. (Look for RUST BUCKETS and FLINTSTONE-MOBILES)

    I have read about the different steels used by the various automakers. Also the paint application techniques (POWDERCOAT rules!!) and use of a clearcoat are all factors. (Dakota uses Powdercoat ref http://www.autointell.com/chrysler7.htm )

    Even given the above knowledge, I am firmly convinced that Toyota and Nissan will rust MUCH faster than GM... From my research, Dodge has had the best corrosion protection among popular automakers. Mercedes among others actually DIPS the body in a galvanizing tank during the manufacturing process. (True galvanizing is an ELECTROPLATING process that involves the flow of electric current)

    Of coarse, the PLASTIC body panels on Saturn and the new VW bug will NEVER rust. Also, I believe the Chevy Lumina APV (Minivan) has plastic too.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,124
    At least I didn't pay an Extra 3-4K for my "sticker" on my offroad Ranger, LOL!
    Engaged that locker lately? I don't think so...
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    But vince,you only have a 3wd truck.I would not laugh so hard.You make fun of something you have no idea about.At least they will have all 4 wheels pulling and not 3.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Only GM and Dodge use real clearcoat. The other manufactures mix it in their paint, don't believe me? look at the 'orange peel' most prominate in Fords it's also noticable in the Nissans and Toyotas. Although all of our dealers and brochures say they have clearcoats, true but GM and Dodge do it right by spraying a separate clearcoat layer over the paint. to me this is the best way to do it...better finish and "thicker" amount of protection.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Hey I was thinking we should be a little crazy here and list some of the little 'quirks' about our trucks that maybe we would question the designer about. I think theat this would be infromative to prospective buyers. These would be a list of things that could be something we didn't notice before we purchased or things that we knew about and bought anyways. I know that we all LOVE our trucks and I am extremely happy with my Nissan Crew Cab there are some things that I would question. I'll start, 1) such light colored grey carpet in a truck, 2) non-folding rear seat and 3)such a small glove box. These things aren't major but, rather 'quirky'. None of these trucks are perfect but but they're great for what we got them for: some us for daily driving, some us for hauling stuff, some us for going where cars can't and some of got them for all the above. I just thought it would be fun to give those that don't have any experience owning a truck to see some of the stuff we see in our trucks.
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    I have to agree with you that no matter how great a vehicle is for us, it will have features that fustrate. My 00 Dakota work truck has a larger glovebox than my 01 Quad. The new glovebox is not big enough to get a full size kleenex box and the owners manual in, like the 00. I do get an improved airbag which I hope to never use. I have a nice overhead console with sunglass holder (never need) and garage door opener compartment (way oversized)but no decent place to mount a CB. Of course one of the pleasures of ownership is finding ways to make it uniquely yours.
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Member Posts: 290
    How is clearcoat "mixed" into paint? All clearcoat is is paint with no pigment. It's a separate clear layer added on top of the regular finish. I don't get where you arrived at the mixing part. And I've never seen any "orange peel"on Fords or Nissans. I have an old beater Corrolla that has the clearcoat peeling off of it on the hood (was in an accident and had a crappy repair/paint job). SO I've seen peeling clearcoat, but no "orange peel" effect.

    ANd for Bpeebles: I am firmly convinced that GM will rust MUCH faster than anything else. My S-10 had the chronic rust over the wheel wells problem even though I waxed the truck and cleaned it almost weekly. My old Corsica just flat out rusted all over the place. None of my Nissans have ever rusted. So I guess your opinion is about as valid as mine then, huh.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    You know what I'm talking about when I'm talking about 'orange peel' right? The fuzzy kind of finish that they have. Look at a GM then look at a Ford you'll see that the GM is smooth and clear the refection is much clearer. This orange peel happens when the paint is sprayed on, no matter how well bu if it isn't sanded or 'wet' sanded before the clearcoat is applied or if the clearcoat isn't sanded it has a slight fuzzy finish. Nissan and Ford definately have it, but it's easy to take out you just have to 'wet' sand it. I maybe incorrect about the mixxing but that is what the Ford body shop said when I used to work for them. Actually he said that Ford didn't even use clearcoat on it's vehicles from '91 thru '97 rather they had a clearcoat the was mixed into their paint. I had a friend of mine that bought a '97 Mustang GT that he was going to show but, had to 'wet' sand it to get the orange peel out or else he would loose points. A good exapmle of orange peel would be look at the fender flares of a Nissan Frontier SE the sides of any F150 especially a dark colored one.
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    I cant raise and lower the right windshied wiper (off the windshield) without it geting caught on the Antenna. You kind of have to force it past it.
    Its not really a major issue, it just bugs me every time i go to wash my windshield.
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