Thanks for your replies. I believe the tax benefits for businesses are still in effect this year if the SUV is over 6,000GVW. The 08 model just misses this. My guess is the 09 will hit this number. But we will have to wait until Honda releases those numbers unless someone can figure it out the batman47's formula.
The so called comparison of competitors of the 2009 Pilot is just a very subjective approach of the author in the Car & Driver magazine. It appears to me that the number of differentials (mechanical or electronics) is the criteria to measure the off-road ability of a vehicle. For example the 2008 Pilot has only a Locking Differential Rear, the Mazda CX-9 has Center Differential, Limited Slip Differential Rear, and Limited Slip Differential Center. The Touareg has Transfer Case, Center Differential, Locking Differential Rear (Pilot), Locking Differential Center, and Descent Control. And so on.
Using these criteria the Toyota Highlander, The Hyundai Veracruz, theoretically should behave off road as the Pilot. The Acadia, the Outlander and even the Kia Sorento and Sportage (with two differential each) should behave better off-road than the Pilot. However reviewers provide just subjective (perceptions) parameters to indicate what car is better or not.
My 06 EXL 4WD has the VTM button. It locks into 4 wheel drive in lower gear. I don't think the 09 is any different in this area. The VCM (cylinder management 6-4-3) is new to the 4WD 09 which my 06 does not have. But I have the same technology VCM on my 08 Accord and it works great.
I just made some DVDs for my friend's TL and they sound great. I was more interested in the MP3 play function of the new Pilot and did not see that logo on the pictures that are out there. My 08 Accord (EXL) has it and I would think the 09 Pilot would, too.
Motorweek just reviewed the 09 Pilot and mentioned that there is an upgrade to the stereo of 510+/- watts. What they did not say is Surround Sound would be included. I would think this would be a differentiator for Honda/Acura vehicles.
But I am still wishing.... Anyway I won't have long to wait to find out. In the meantime MDX prices and incentives are really heating up.
According to Honda's website the upgraded stereo will only be with the Touring models and the EX-L optioned with the RES. This is unfortunate for me because an upgraded stereo is my most important option, so to get it I'd also have to buy leather, a RES, etc since Honda doesn't do single options.
04/17/2008 - LINCOLN, Ala. - The all-new, Alabama-built 2009 Honda Pilot rolled off the assembly line today at 10:05 a.m. in Lincoln to the cheers of more than 1,500 associates at Honda Manufacturing of Alabama (HMA). "Today we mark a significant milestone - the launch of an all-new Pilot built by one team, with one goal and built only in sweet home Alabama," said Hiroshi Sasamoto, president and CEO of Honda's Alabama operations. "I salute the accomplishments of all HMA associates and your commitment to building products of the highest quality for our customers." A brief celebration at the end of the assembly line marked the start of mass production of new Pilot. HMA is the exclusive global production source of both the Pilot and the Odyssey minivan. The Lincoln plant also produces the V-6 engines for each vehicle. Early next year, HMA will add a third model to its production lineup - the Ridgeline pickup truck. The Honda Pilot helped elevate the "crossover" segment in the last decade by introducing a combination of smooth ride comfort, accommodating interior packaging and overall efficiency that traditional SUVs lacked. The Pilot helped transform the SUV segment with better ride quality, top crash safety ratings, more interior space and increased fuel efficiency. The new Pilot received rave reviews from Honda's top U.S. engineering designer. "You have built an outstanding vehicle. This Pilot is all business. It's impressive on the outside, the inside and underneath," Frank Paluch, vice president of Automotive Design at Honda R&D Americas in Marysville, Ohio, told the Alabama associates minutes after the first Pilot rolled off the assembly line. Paluch was the lead project engineer on the design of the first generation Pilot, which was introduced in the summer of 2002 as a 2003 model. Since its introduction, almost 750,000 units of the Pilot have been sold. "When our team at Honda R&D Americas looked at creating a second generation Pilot, we knew we had a solid foundation to build upon. And we believe we have advanced the second generation model in every way," Paluch said. "This second generation Pilot is designed to be an 'intelligent adventure vehicle' by meeting the practical needs of a family with its eight-passenger seating and offering bolder SUV styling, a more clever interior package and advanced technologies for safety, fuel efficiency and convenience." HMA builds the Odyssey minivan on both Line 1 and Line 2, while Pilot sport utility vehicle is built only on Line 2 at the $1.4 billion Lincoln facility. Annual production capacity is 300,000 vehicles and V-6 engines. The all-new Pilot is set to arrive at Honda dealers nationwide on May 22.
Honda should offer a 4 cylinder engine option on the 2009 Pilot.
I dont need a V6 engine and the higher fuel consumption. A 4 cylinder engine meets all my city driving needs.
With gas prices expected to hit $4.50 per gallon, this has become a key issue. Those who need a V6 engine can opt to pay more. Honda should not make everyone pay for the V6 and the associated higher fuel consumption.
1) The newer IC engines are more efficient to begin with. Honda can deliver a 4 cylinder engine with 180 HP torque so the vehicle is not going to be a under-powered weaking. Look at the stats of the 4 cylinder engine offered in other Honda vehicles.
2) Even if the 4 cylinder engine can deliver 2 more miles to the Gallon, thats a big help. As soon as gasoline crosses $4 per gallon you can trash all the old economics and calculations. For example, the Hybrids become more appealing becuase the payoff (to recover the premium paid) is much shorter.
I believe Honda would have come up with a different 09 Pilot if they knew that gas ($4.00) prices would soar.. .I was looking into the civic hybrid (45mpg) all sold out..
You're so naive Get used to $4 a gallon.its here to stay Europe is already paying $9 a gallon
The developing world is consuming more oil, and OPEC are not increasing output. It's called supply and demand. India and China are getting off their bikes and driving cars (getting more prosperous).
I don't think so Honda has the CR-V (4 cylinder) for those who want great fuel economy and reasonable size. The Pilot is the next model up, it's not for everyone. Some will buy it, some won't Again, its a free market, you can choose which car to buy.
In general, a 4,000 lb SUV with V6 is going to consume more gas.
Shortly, the Pilot will have a Hybrid version for those who want the size, but a little better mpg
That is the main point here. Why not turn the tap on bigger? Price gouging? The billion dollars quarter profit can be pumped right back to inflate the oil price in the commodity market. This price increase will be never ending as long as the oil companies put their profit at work in commodity market.
Huh, why don't you look up OPEC in an encyclopedia. It has nothing to do with oil companies. It is believe it or not a monoply of Arab and other countries whose whole point of being is to get maximum prices for oil at a minimum supply. If the price falls, OPEC will cut back on supply. The oil companies just buy at market price and add their fixed percentage profit. You push new drilling, new refineries, new nuclear plants, etc., and the price will fall severely. You add windfall profit taxes, prices will go up and shortages will be likely in the near future. Nice strategy for the uninformed.
Yep a Pilot hybrid might be the ticket. How about hydrogen fuel? We need to spend now on Tech or go broke. But a Pilot that might get 30mpg.would be great. Around here hybrids are as scarce as G.Bush supporters!!!!!
Next year we will see Automobile X-Prize competition. There will be some inventions green emmission, +100MPG, seat +4 persons and ready for production by car manufacturers. We are talking about more than double the Prius mileage.
The VCM offered by Honda keeps shifting between 3, 4 and 6 cylinders. The driver cannot control the trigger of the VCM unless you keep the cruise control turned on.
Honda should offer a programmable VCM. Then I would program it to run on 4 cylinders all the time!
"Shortly, the Pilot will have a Hybrid version for those who want the size, but a little better mpg."
Is this wishful thinking on your part? Or do you have some concrete info about the Hybrid version of the Pilot. Has Honda discussed or hinted about a hybrid version of the Pilot?
I have not heard any news about a hybrid. However with gas prices in Japan @$5.40 a gallon Honda Corp. has got know 15-20 mpg. is not gonna get .I sure would think that the Honda Board in Japan are talking about greatly improving fuel efficiency, or get left behind. Which is not Honda's M.O.!!!
However with gas prices in Japan $5.40 a gallon Honda Corp. has got know 15-20 mpg. is not gonna get .I sure would think that the Honda Board in Japan are talking about greatly improving fuel efficiency, or get left behind.
Since the Pilot isn't sold in Japan, I doubt the cost of fuel in Tokyo is going to affect the offerings in North America.
One has to remember that the specs for the new Pilot were set about 3-4 years ago and final specs about 2 years ago. The run up in fuel costs has mainly been in the last 6 months and engines, target fuel economy, design, et al were frozen. Changing anything major would push product release back 12-18 months which would mean hundreds of millions of dollars in development sitting around waiting for improvements. Honda is better off launching the vehicle as it is and improving it in 2 years with an early mid model update that is already in the development stages.
It's possible that they may introduce a hybrid Pilot sooner but I'm betting more on a diesel first. Honda is touting it's clean diesel technology which they claim is 50 state compliant without the use of urea like other manufacturers are using. Plus diesel is better in developing torque - a Honda shortcoming for quite some time.
Google Aptera and see if you think they can get 300 MPG. Interesting at least, but certainly not a Pilot. It weighs 1400 lbs., and has a coefficient of drag of 0.11, while the Prius is in the mid 0.20s.
Honda CEO has said repetitively on Honda's strategy of future lineup. Someone just simply keep wishing for hybrids. It is not going to happen on large vehicles. You may keep waiting, however, it is your freedom and choice to do so.
Honda plans to have hybrids on small vehicles. They believe that is where hybrid shines in MPG. For large vehicles, hybrid system is not efficient unless a huge battery is on board, then, the cost issue follows. On vehicles like Lexus RX, a hybrid version gives you a gain of maybe 5mpg in real world driving. Assuming you drive 15K miles per year, that is 750 gallons for 20mpg, or 600 gallons for 25mpg. You save 150 gallonsx$4 = $600. The premium of a hybrid system is about $5000 for Toyota. That would take about 8 years to recoup your cost, not counting the interest of $5000 for 8 years (which could double if you are a good investor.) On top of that, a hybrid battery costs about $4000 which lasts for about 10-15 years. (note: I own a Prius for 3 years+.)
Honda's strategy is for larger vehicles to have diesel engines. You will not see Accord or vehicles larger than Accord to have hybrid system. Not even CR-V. CR-V, Accord will have 2.2 iDTec diesel engines in 1-2 years. Acura TSX will be the 1st model to receive the new and clean 2.2L iDTec in 2009 (as 2009 or 2010 model years). Odyssey, Ridgeline, Pilot will have the coming 3.0L iDTec, which could give 30+mpg according to inside info (or rather a target to meet). It is at least 2 years away from production.
I am sure these are the questions consumers ask ...
For example Valentin Technologies has an invention - Hydrostatic Powertrain - based on using Toyota Camry mostly everything except the engine/drivetrain. A Toyota Camry should be safe enough.
Yeah, your right "C" the larger vehicles don't deliver the mpg's that would make it worthwhile. Tahoe Hybrid 18 mpg. at about 50 G's big deal. Still don't understand why diesel is more expensive!! Can u imagine what it cost to fill up a 18 wheeler!!
CNN said this morning the national average to fill up a big rig was $1300. I live in rural Nevada and Diesel in California yesterday (just over the state line) was $5.03
Went to go look at the 2008 Pilot and was told a few interesting things about the 2009's. The dealer here says they are only allocated 2 a month for the first 6 months, and have already pre-sold their first five.
The dealership was not a high volume one, I'd imagine medium market or something along those lines.
If allocation is true, looks like my decision to get a base MDX was OK. I figured there would be deals on the MDX since it was the second year and it would be list price or more on the Pilot. Similar price.
I have been buying Honda's for a number of years. I went to the local dealer and asked about the Pilot release date. He said 5/22/08, had 4 coming in. He didn't even ask if I was interested in putting a deposit down. I asked him if these were pre-sold and he said only one.
I have been on the waiting end for new models in the past. They have always required a deposit if you even think you are going to get one. From my 96 Civic, 02 CRV, 04 TSX, I have always have been forced to give a deposit. So, I don't think that the demand for the Pilot, at least around here, is all that significant. With the prices of gas as they are, the demand for smaller cars, could hurt the release date of the Pilot. I am hoping that this will mean better deals for the consumer.
I took what the salesman told me with a grain of salt as he told me a few other inaccuracies, but I wanted to post what I had heard about the 09's.
I agree the demand for the new Pilot would seem to be lower. The re-design has overall not been received warmly in automotive circles, and of course with the economy and gas prices I don't see people lining up to buy an SUV.
Granted, with anything new it'll be awhile for deals, but I imagine sooner rather than later the dealers will have to do some dealing to move the 2009's, especially if the prices went up at all.
If they are incenting Ridgelines to the tune of $4500, how long before that happens to the Pilot. It seems like a good idea to wait to avoid the early high prices because if gas keeps going up, depreciation will be severe on these Pilots.
I'd love a $4,500 incentive for the Pilot, but it might be awhile for it to come. The Ridgeline's never really been a great seller for Honda, unlike the Pilot at least before this model year.
At its peak, Honda was selling all Pilots it could built, about 15K/month. Now, Honda is forecasting 140,000/year. That is 12K/month. That is still aggressive to me considering two factors: - gas price keeps going up - that is why CR-V is the new Pilot (sales-wise) - competition - new kids on the blocks waiting to take a bite of the CUV markets. Personally, I would think it is un-wise to be buying the 1st batch due to two factors - early bugs (even Toyota/Honda has recalls ... My 2nd year Prius has had 2) - full MSRP if you put down deposit, while other competing models are selling at invoice or lower (e.g. Mazda CX-9 currently at $1500 below INVOICE everywhere)
I would wait at least 6 months to let those "must-have-it" people to buy first at MSRP. Then, the dealers shall see the true demand and set reasonable prices.
Comments
Payload = passengers + luggages + tongue weight (trailer) (~10% of towing capacity)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_- cars/family_romper_roundup_2009_honda_pilot_meets_its_competition_feature/(page)- /1
Using these criteria the Toyota Highlander, The Hyundai Veracruz, theoretically should behave off road as the Pilot. The Acadia, the Outlander and even the Kia Sorento and Sportage (with two differential each) should behave better off-road than the Pilot. However reviewers provide just subjective (perceptions) parameters to indicate what car is better or not.
But I am still wishing....
Anyway I won't have long to wait to find out. In the meantime MDX prices and incentives are really heating up.
"Today we mark a significant milestone - the launch of an all-new Pilot built by one team, with one goal and built only in sweet home Alabama," said Hiroshi Sasamoto, president and CEO of Honda's Alabama operations. "I salute the accomplishments of all HMA associates and your commitment to building products of the highest quality for our customers."
A brief celebration at the end of the assembly line marked the start of mass production of new Pilot. HMA is the exclusive global production source of both the Pilot and the Odyssey minivan. The Lincoln plant also produces the V-6 engines for each vehicle. Early next year, HMA will add a third model to its production lineup - the Ridgeline pickup truck.
The Honda Pilot helped elevate the "crossover" segment in the last decade by introducing a combination of smooth ride comfort, accommodating interior packaging and overall efficiency that traditional SUVs lacked. The Pilot helped transform the SUV segment with better ride quality, top crash safety ratings, more interior space and increased fuel efficiency.
The new Pilot received rave reviews from Honda's top U.S. engineering designer.
"You have built an outstanding vehicle. This Pilot is all business. It's impressive on the outside, the inside and underneath," Frank Paluch, vice president of Automotive Design at Honda R&D Americas in Marysville, Ohio, told the Alabama associates minutes after the first Pilot rolled off the assembly line.
Paluch was the lead project engineer on the design of the first generation Pilot, which was introduced in the summer of 2002 as a 2003 model. Since its introduction, almost 750,000 units of the Pilot have been sold.
"When our team at Honda R&D Americas looked at creating a second generation Pilot, we knew we had a solid foundation to build upon. And we believe we have advanced the second generation model in every way," Paluch said. "This second generation Pilot is designed to be an 'intelligent adventure vehicle' by meeting the practical needs of a family with its eight-passenger seating and offering bolder SUV styling, a more clever interior package and advanced technologies for safety, fuel efficiency and convenience."
HMA builds the Odyssey minivan on both Line 1 and Line 2, while Pilot sport utility vehicle is built only on Line 2 at the $1.4 billion Lincoln facility. Annual production capacity is 300,000 vehicles and V-6 engines. The all-new Pilot is set to arrive at Honda dealers nationwide on May 22.
I dont need a V6 engine and the higher fuel consumption. A 4 cylinder engine meets all my city driving needs.
With gas prices expected to hit $4.50 per gallon, this has become a key issue. Those who need a V6 engine can opt to pay more. Honda should not make everyone pay for the V6 and the associated higher fuel consumption.
Personally I'd wait for a diesel or perhaps consider a RAV if you want a 7 seater with 4 cylinders.
2) Even if the 4 cylinder engine can deliver 2 more miles to the Gallon, thats a big help. As soon as gasoline crosses $4 per gallon you can trash all the old economics and calculations. For example, the Hybrids become more appealing becuase the payoff (to recover the premium paid) is much shorter.
That is also why it is the #1 selling CUV in US market now.
Its called VCM (Variable cylinder management)
Get used to $4 a gallon.its here to stay
Europe is already paying $9 a gallon
The developing world is consuming more oil, and OPEC are not increasing output.
It's called supply and demand.
India and China are getting off their bikes and driving cars (getting more prosperous).
Honda has the CR-V (4 cylinder) for those who want great fuel economy and reasonable size.
The Pilot is the next model up, it's not for everyone. Some will buy it, some won't
Again, its a free market, you can choose which car to buy.
In general, a 4,000 lb SUV with V6 is going to consume more gas.
Shortly, the Pilot will have a Hybrid version for those who want the size, but a little better mpg
That is the main point here. Why not turn the tap on bigger? Price gouging?
The billion dollars quarter profit can be pumped right back to inflate the oil price in the commodity market. This price increase will be never ending as long as the oil companies put their profit at work in commodity market.
Honda should offer a programmable VCM. Then I would program it to run on 4 cylinders all the time!
Is this wishful thinking on your part? Or do you have some concrete info about the Hybrid version of the Pilot. Has Honda discussed or hinted about a hybrid version of the Pilot?
Thanks.
Since the Pilot isn't sold in Japan, I doubt the cost of fuel in Tokyo is going to affect the offerings in North America.
One has to remember that the specs for the new Pilot were set about 3-4 years ago and final specs about 2 years ago. The run up in fuel costs has mainly been in the last 6 months and engines, target fuel economy, design, et al were frozen. Changing anything major would push product release back 12-18 months which would mean hundreds of millions of dollars in development sitting around waiting for improvements. Honda is better off launching the vehicle as it is and improving it in 2 years with an early mid model update that is already in the development stages.
It's possible that they may introduce a hybrid Pilot sooner but I'm betting more on a diesel first. Honda is touting it's clean diesel technology which they claim is 50 state compliant without the use of urea like other manufacturers are using. Plus diesel is better in developing torque - a Honda shortcoming for quite some time.
Honda plans to have hybrids on small vehicles. They believe that is where hybrid shines in MPG. For large vehicles, hybrid system is not efficient unless a huge battery is on board, then, the cost issue follows. On vehicles like Lexus RX, a hybrid version gives you a gain of maybe 5mpg in real world driving. Assuming you drive 15K miles per year, that is 750 gallons for 20mpg, or 600 gallons for 25mpg. You save 150 gallonsx$4 = $600. The premium of a hybrid system is about $5000 for Toyota. That would take about 8 years to recoup your cost, not counting the interest of $5000 for 8 years (which could double if you are a good investor.)
On top of that, a hybrid battery costs about $4000 which lasts for about 10-15 years. (note: I own a Prius for 3 years+.)
Honda's strategy is for larger vehicles to have diesel engines. You will not see Accord or vehicles larger than Accord to have hybrid system. Not even CR-V.
CR-V, Accord will have 2.2 iDTec diesel engines in 1-2 years.
Acura TSX will be the 1st model to receive the new and clean 2.2L iDTec in 2009 (as 2009 or 2010 model years).
Odyssey, Ridgeline, Pilot will have the coming 3.0L iDTec, which could give 30+mpg according to inside info (or rather a target to meet). It is at least 2 years away from production.
For example Valentin Technologies has an invention - Hydrostatic Powertrain - based on using Toyota Camry mostly everything except the engine/drivetrain. A Toyota Camry should be safe enough.
Possible a Toyota Camry - Valentin with 130MPG
The dealership was not a high volume one, I'd imagine medium market or something along those lines.
I have been on the waiting end for new models in the past. They have always required a deposit if you even think you are going to get one. From my 96 Civic, 02 CRV, 04 TSX, I have always have been forced to give a deposit. So, I don't think that the demand for the Pilot, at least around here, is all that significant. With the prices of gas as they are, the demand for smaller cars, could hurt the release date of the Pilot. I am hoping that this will mean better deals for the consumer.
I agree the demand for the new Pilot would seem to be lower. The re-design has overall not been received warmly in automotive circles, and of course with the economy and gas prices I don't see people lining up to buy an SUV.
Granted, with anything new it'll be awhile for deals, but I imagine sooner rather than later the dealers will have to do some dealing to move the 2009's, especially if the prices went up at all.
Now, Honda is forecasting 140,000/year. That is 12K/month. That is still aggressive to me considering two factors:
- gas price keeps going up - that is why CR-V is the new Pilot (sales-wise)
- competition - new kids on the blocks waiting to take a bite of the CUV markets.
Personally, I would think it is un-wise to be buying the 1st batch due to two factors
- early bugs (even Toyota/Honda has recalls ... My 2nd year Prius has had 2)
- full MSRP if you put down deposit, while other competing models are selling at invoice or lower (e.g. Mazda CX-9 currently at $1500 below INVOICE everywhere)
I would wait at least 6 months to let those "must-have-it" people to buy first at MSRP. Then, the dealers shall see the true demand and set reasonable prices.
(vtec.net a very reputable site for Honda/Acura)
Your local dealers might have a couple of demo units already. Check it out.
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=762147