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And I feel for Honda because I am sure when they started designing it, they did not think it likely gas prices would be as high as they are.
Currently there is $3500 dealer support on 2008 Pilots. Granted it is an outgoing model but you have to wonder how long it will be before "soft" incentives kick in on the 2009 Pilot.
There will always be those who need such a vehicle, but to convince the rest of us to act on a "want" rather than a "need" for a vehicle that while efficient for its class, admitedly uses a good bit of fuel, price is going to have to set aggresively.
This car will hit showrooms at July this year and prices I guess will be $2000 less than the Pilot. Specifications are not given yet and information about this car is almost absent. Photos of the vehicle is given at:
http://www.kiamedia.com/secure/borrego-photos.html
So EPA no longer vary speeds around a "higher speed"? That was my point on VCM. When speed varies, VCM cannot maintain. It has to wake up the rest of cylinders.
The outdated testing method has been well-known. Go to wikipedia.org for such info. You are the one that call our beloved government stupid, not me. I would call them "slow to respond", though.
Why 48mph? Because the testing standard was established when the highway speed limit was 55mph. Our government thought that you should be driving at 48mph. It is reasonable, if you ask me.
My bet is that, today, EPA is testing around 60mph, but I have no source to support that.
Cheers.
it is your choice whether you want to buy Korean brands or not. It is just an advice from me based on my observation. You can take it or leave it. Maybe in 10 years, Hyundai will be like what Lexus is, but not today. (Kia is owned by Hyundai in case you don't know that already as a cheaper brand in Asia.) For reliability data, Consumer Reports should be the best source. My post was more about resale value, and less about reliability of Korean-made vehicles. I know that some Korean models have been good in initial quality survey. However, I own vehicles for at least 7 years. "Initial Quality" (3 months) does not mean much to me.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
'08 Pilot 2WD 16/22
'08 Pilot AWD 15/20
'09 Pilot 2WD 17/23
'09 Pilot AWD 16/22
For those interested in how EPA does testing, see here (middle of the page)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles#Current_EPA_testing_pro- cedure_through_2007
BTY, I did not mean to come across as an a-hole in my previous post. I didn't proof read my post. My apologies.
Are you buying, jet fuel? Did you mean to say $3.59?
The fuel consumes 16/22 is average for V6 3.6 and above for any SUV. The Outlander 3.0L V6 is just 19/24 and the RAV4 V6 3.6 is 19/25. However, the robustness construction of the Pilot has added almost 1000 lbs more than the Outlander and RAV. The heavier the vehicle, the greater the fuel consumes is.
I wouldn’t single out on the Pilot fuel consume when there are many goodies in the Pilot to talk about, e.g. the air intake that allows the Pilot a 19 inches of water deepness. Another thing I would like to discuss, for example, how to light amber rear lens instead of the red turning lights presently in the new Pilot. I think there are ways to do this swap without changing at all the rear combination lens. Equally for people that would like to have a rear fog lens/lamp as in many European vehicles imported into the USA. USA traffic legislation encourage this rear fog light although it is not mandatory.
I dont tow or haul anything. A V4 engine with 180 HP would be more than adequate for my needs.
Think about how much gas you would save on an annual basis if you step down to a V4 engine.
Perhaps you should look into the RAV4 4-cyl with seven seats, 4-speed automatic. This car with all the options will cost about $28K-$30K .
Great question! Anyone interested in discussing politics may want to consider the Politics topic.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Resale values on anything Korean is horrible.
The 7-passenger Highlander would be a direct competitor to the Pilot.
Length
2009 Pilot: 190.9"
RAV4: 181.1"
Outlander: 182.7"
Highlander: 188.4"
Width:
2009 Pilot: 78.5"
RAV4: 71.5"
Outlander: 70.9"
Highlander: 75.2"
Height:
2009 Pilot: 71.0" - 72.7"
RAV4: 66.3"
Outlander: 67.7"
Highlander: 68.1"
The 2009 Pilot is built of high-strength steel and this implies more weight for a car of similar dimensions. This give the Pilot more rigid foundations than other SUV as it were build using a body-on-frame construction that is good for off road.
I meant if you built the Outlander and the RAV4 with the type of construction the Pilot has undergone their petrol consume will equalize the Pilot petrol figures.
Your statement is not true.
Europe pays $8 to $9 per gallon. The USA only pays $3.75 per gallon.
The real reason oil is $110 per barrel, and our gas prices are up, is because China and India have a very high growth rate, and they are consuming more oil.
Its supply and demand.
Get used to $4 and $5 a gallon this summer
About Europe where the petrol is twice the price of the USA the majority European countries have imposed to their population high taxes in the petrol consume to pay for free education, free health care (medicine, consultation, and surgery), free social benefits, and help to the unemployed. 4/5th of the petrol price is taxes.
China and India the demand of petrol has increased, this is true but because the poor exchange rate of the dollars China and India have not have other alternative to pay world oil price. However nobody can blame the Chinese or Indians direct responsible of the high price of oil. Half the oil to these two countries comes from Iran, and Russia or boundaries countries anyway where the trade is made in other currencies but the dollars.
You may be all right to get use to $6.0 per gallon in the USA because the economical mess where we are at the moment most probably will take us another 50 years to sort out the mess.
Lets now continue talking about the goodies of our 2009 Pilot.
My wife's RDX has this and it is just too awesome.....I was close to buying and MDX but decided not to.
Also any mileage numbers yet....I am hoping for 19/23 city/hwy. My 2004 HL gets an average of 22 around town and 25/26+ on longer hwy trips.
Thanks for the input.
With regards to DVD surround sound, I had that in my TL, I just couldn't find any DVD's for it. Maybe now there are more available.
I don't know for sure, but I bet Honda will reserve that feature for it's more upscale models (Acura).
Pilot: (2WD) 17/23
Pilot: (4WD) 16/22
Ody: 17/25
I think it is a bit unfair to compare the Pilot to the RAV-4 and Outlander. The Pilot is in a totally different class of CUV. The Outlander and RAV are considered "small suv's". The Pilot is considered a "mid-sized suv". This being said, the Pilot compares to the Highlander, CX-9, GM triplets, Veracruz etc., which are all considered "mid-sized suv's" that seat 7-8 passengers.
I think where people have an issue with the Pilot's fuel economy is because of the power it puts out. Mazda (273/270), GM(275/248), Hyundai(260/257) and Toyota (270/248) all put out much more powerful engines then Honda, while being on par with fuel economy. Also, the 09 Pilot has a curb weight between 4321-4600lbs, which places it in the middle of the pack. Lightest being Hyundai (4266) and GM being the heaviest (4936). This is an issue because Honda promotes how fuel efficient their cars are, and they also pat themselves on the back with their engine technology which they claim is superior to other mfgr's (i-VTEC, VCM etc.). Since the 09 Pilot is equipped with this equipment, one would think with a 250hp V6 engine, Honda would exceed 22mpg highway. Something along the lines of 25mpg was widely expected, and it now seems as if 22mpg is a failure.
Equally, the specification of the new Honda establishes that now all the 2WD and the 4WD will have this VCM engine which is different of what was with model 2007 year. This is a worry situation because I was told in his forum that the problem of ghost vibration reported by owners of the previous model usually complaint about, was the 2WD with engine VCM on it. Even a member recommend me to buy the 4WD instead of the 2WD.to prevent possible ghost vibrations.
Aerodynamics and gearing are probably the two main factors, skinnier tires, less weight also contributing.
Your statement is only partially correct.
High strength steel is only used in 52% of the Pilot body/chassis. This does not necessarily add more weight. The strength in the steel comes from the production or manufacturing process.
Honda will use this steel at very strategic points in the chassis i.e. the front, A-pillars and rear frame joints.
By using a Aluminum hood, Honda is negating the gains made by using high strength steel in parts of the chassis.
I certainly dont want my hood crumpled in a mild frontal collision.
"In spite of a forty percent reduction in hood assembly weight, the aluminum hood shows an acceptable level of behavior in most cases." Springer
Or would you rather have it shoved through your windshield?
You don't achieve 5 star safety ratings by building unsafe cars!
Check again. All BMW sedans (and most high-end vehicles) have aluminum hood and trunk lids. The new M3 even has carbon fiber roof. The hood of 5-series is so light that you can easily lift it with 1 finger.
It actually costs more to use aluminum than steel. Honda is not trying to save cost here. Honda is trying to reduce weight (therefore, fuel economy).
So, you have misunderstood Honda.
Personally, I wish all turn signals were amber, but it didn't stop me from buying my 2006 Accord. My 1996 has them though!
The side-step looks great. I wish Mazda offer that on my CX-9. :mad:
Just for your reference:
GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) 5831lb (FWD) 6049lb (AWD)
Let me know if you need GAWR data.
You may also get data from 2008 Pilot to interpolate.