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Possible Salvation for Domestic Automakers?

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Comments

  • andy82471andy82471 Member Posts: 120
    The Atkins diet nearly bankrupted them as people were staying away from donuts in droves.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well your comment reminded me of how some experts advocate that America should just stick to what it does best---trucks and construction equipment, and stop making cars altogether. The logic is that rather than ride this somewhat sickly industry right down into the ground...that is, rather than auger in...we should adapt the industrial infrastructure we now use for cars into areas more profitable.

    Easier said than done, of course, and probably nothing more than a lunchroom speculation but there is a certain good logic to it.

    Why wait until market share for the Big 2.5 is so small that economies of scale start to really work against us?
  • andy82471andy82471 Member Posts: 120
    It is obvious you haven't been overseas. Toyota, Volvo, Daimler Chrysler also make Semis. They just don't sell them in this country.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Volvo Semi's are sold in this country. We have a dealer in Amarillo.

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I saw an ad in the local paper for a 2001ish Hino (aka industrial Toyota) that referred to it as "the Cadillac of work trucks".
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Kind of a left-handed compliment don't you think?

    Let's see: "The Lexus of front-end loaders"

    Well there is the notion that ANY publicity is better than none, so maybe that's a good thing after all.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    don't forget mitsubishi
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    What ?

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...the Cadillac of work trucks was a beautiful vehicle called the Diamond T.
  • kronykrony Member Posts: 110
    It is obvious you haven't been overseas. Toyota, Volvo, Daimler Chrysler also make Semis. They just don't sell them in this country.

    In the US, DaimlerChrysler does have Freightliner, Western Star, Thomas Built Buses and Detroit Diesel. You do see a few M-B engine badges on over the road trucks too...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    He wants tougher fuel rules, more ethanol use

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070124/POLITICS/70124042- 1

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070124/AUTO01/701240401

    Rocky
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    the world is a whole lot bigger than you think

    www.mitsubishifuso.com/
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    The idea here is to have a discussion. While the links may be interesting, it would be nice to hear what YOU actually think or have to say rather than a string of dueling links.

    Thanks
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    IBM got out of manufacturing and became a service company.

    While that isn't practical for GM and Ford, I had thought for a while that they'd become finance companies.

    There was a company in our town that had that kind of set up in Pianos. That is, they didn't really sell pianos so much as they sold financing on the pianos they sold you.

    However, hasn't GM looked at selling off its financial arm?
    Given that they'd been making more money on financing than cars, I thought that rather foolish.

    But in any case - Honda sells motorcycles, lawnmowers and other things with engines (and now even jets!). Should GM try to expand its products or focus on its core business?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I saw that yesterday as I toured the net. I was like nwng, is right about those mitsu semi's ;)

    I guess I've never paid attention or noticed them rolling our highways. ;)

    Rocky
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    IBM got out of manufacturing and became a service company.

    Um, I beg to differ. IBM did sell of the PC business to Lenovo and its hard disk manufacturing capacity to Hitachi, but we still make our own servers and chips. In fact, we supply pretty much all the chips to the latest round of game boxes - XBox 360, Nintendo Wii and PS3.

    IBM applies for and receives more patents annually than any other company in the US.

    The service business is the fastest growing part of our company, however.

    Remember, at one point GM owned Hughes and EDS, but sold them off to focus on manufacturing cars. Ford owned Fridgidare back in the 50's and 60's, I believe.

    michaell
    Proud IBMer
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Naah, that was also GM. When I was growing up, we had a Frigidaire stove that read "A Division of General Motors Corporation".
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    I never did either, but there is a warehouse near my office and all they use are those mitsu trucks. But I believe those are the medium duty trucks.

    I wonder how that market segment looks like, import vs domestic?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    GM owned Frigidaire. Ford owned Philco into the 1970s and then sold it to GTE. I don't know what happened after that. Chrysler had a company called Airtemp that made household air conditioners, and AMC had its Kelvinator Division.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...a lot of those white medium duty cabover trucks that all look the same. They are probably manufactured by one company, but uses many nameplates - UD, Isuzu, GMC, Chevrolet, Mitsubishi, etc.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    IBM got out of manufacturing and became a service company.
    Um, I beg to differ    .

    1. I stand corrected and I express my apologies.

    2. I'm very pleased that IBM is still a powerhouse.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    No, but they're all Japanese. The Chevy and GMCs are rebadged Isuzus, Mitsubishis are Mitsubishi Fuso (not the same as the car Mitsu), and UD is Nissan Diesel (not owned by Nissan anymore).
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Oh, that's right ... Philco was the name I couldn't remember. I knew that GM owned one and Ford another ... just got the companies turned around.

    lokki, no problem with regards to IBM. My little corner of the company (we were bought by IBM 5 1/2 years ago) produces revenues that could be considered a 'rounding error' in IBM's books. We just closed the books on 2006 and the company did just over $91 billion (yes, I said billion) in revenue for the year.

    Would love to see GM or Ford do that kind of revenue again.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    i traded a couple hockey tickets for a frigidaire actual 'fridge with the gm logo in it. i passed it on to a family member after i owned it for 7 years or so.
    it was my garage 'fridge in that lovely avacado color.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    no domestic competition? I'm starting to see more and more sprinters on the road but I guess they're not in the same class, more like the chevy express van
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Sprinter is a rebadged Mercedes van assembled here from European knock-down kits. You can even get the MB garnish to replace the Dodge badges.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah the local MB dealership puts the mercedes badges on their sprinters.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    Same with the MB dealer here, and those things are slowly popping up everywhere around here, even in local government fleets.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    It is a really great van. We had five or six of them in the UPS hub I worked at and the drivers loved them.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Executives, Stabenow say U.S. must take action for industry to compete with Asian companies.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070130/AUTO01/701300401

    Thank-god somebody is finally talking about saving our american automobile industry. The democrats could be the force that finally says enough, is enough !!!!! :D

    Rocky
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Love this article!
    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070130/AUTO01/701300401

    This is a great article and more politicians should read this. ENOUGH!@ of sending our manufacturing capabilities overseas@! National Health care is on its way. This is one reason why we cannot compete world wide. There are third world countries that offer national health care, there is absolutely no reason we can't. Companies spend Billions on health care rather than infrastructure and R&D.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Love this article!
    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070130/AUTO01/701300401

    This is a great article and more politicians should read this. ENOUGH!@ of sending our manufacturing capabilities overseas@! National Health care is on its way. This is one reason why we cannot compete world wide. There are third world countries that offer national health care, there is absolutely no reason we can't. Companies spend Billions on health care rather than infrastructure and R&D.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Every democrat I know supports national healthcare. A few republicans also don't think it's such a bad idea finally. :)

    Rocky
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    We're talking domestic automakers here, not the political football of national healthcare.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Auto industry stands united

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070130/BUSINESS01/701300345/10- 14/BUSINESS01

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Gibson feels pain among Detroiters

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070130/ENT03/701300424/1014/BU- SINESS01

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I just heard on CNN Chrysler is closing the Delware plant ans is cutting 13,000 workers. :sick: :cry:

    I will get links to the story !!!!

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/14/news/companies/chrysler_jobcuts/index.htm?postve- - rsion=2007021409

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070214/ap_on_bi_ge/chrysler_restructuring

    :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    FYI-CNN Is going to the press confrence where Chrysler, is going to talk about job cuts at 9:40 a.m. EST

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    DETROIT — In the relentless quest to satisfy consumers' conflicting demands for space, utility, comfort, performance and efficiency, two Detroit brands are planning to switch their midsize sport-utility vehicles from their current truck-based, body-on-frame construction to new car-based crossover platforms after 2010.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119596

    Rocky
  • 6sptl6sptl Member Posts: 27
    The only way for domestic makers to save themselves is to build truly competitive vehicles instead of the crap they do. Just got back from the Chicago auto show and can faithfuly attest that the even the Koreans are building car that exude exterior and interior quality and excellence, they are basicly on par with the Jpanese and better than some europeans in that respect. That type of attention to detail is also evident in how their overall reliability has improved. Except for Ford's mazda clones every other US manufactured vehicle shows plain shoddy fit, finish and craftmanship. How is it that the Koreans can leapfrog the big three in barely 2 model changes to rival japanese craftmanship and the big 3 have been unsuccesful in decades? The only area where the koreans lag behind the japanese big 3 now is in mechanical and engineering sophistication since their R&D is still significantly behind, but if they put a lot of effort in that parameter they should be comparable in the not too distant future. The big three are doomed to dissolution if they can't learn Kaizen, period. :mad:
  • bigo08bigo08 Member Posts: 102
    the big 2's newest offerings are on par with Toyota and Hondas... the lambada trio (Enclave, Outlook,Acadia) the ford triplets(MKZ,Fusion,Milan), Saturn Aura, the new Malibu, and the Ford Edge....
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    The Japanese learned these process's Kaizen, Six-Sigma from americans. The Japanese like to take credit for them because they were able to implement them first because of american union resistance. These standards/process's are in place in american business and I've been involved with the implementation of them on work lines. It looks better on paper than in reality. ;)

    The bottom line is if you use better material, use better engineering with less cost cutting, you end up with a better final product. This has nothing to do with Kaizen, Six Sigma, Lean Manufactoring aka JOT delivery. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I agree but some still live in the past. ;)

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The bottom line is if you use better material, use better engineering with less cost cutting, you end up with a better final product. This has nothing to do with Kaizen, Six Sigma, Lean Manufactoring aka JOT delivery.

    This is what Mercedes-Benz used to do, except they did it regardless of cost.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    With the exception of the Lambda trio, I have yet to see those vehicles consistently beat their Toyota and Honda counterparts in comparison tests (and the new Malibu isn't even on sale yet, so no one knows).

    The Accord still beats the Aura and Fusion in every comparison test I've read. So we're "not living in the past"...we're actually pretty well informed. ;)

    And before anyone throws around the epithet "import lover," please note that I think that that the Ford Fusion is very attractive, especially in the higher trim levels. The Ford Edge is also very attractive, although I am concerned about the braking performance.

    Let's not embarrass ourselves by whining about the "biased media," which really translates into, "The testers don't place my favorite vehicle first."

    Anyone who does so needs to explain how publications as diverse as Car & Driver, Automobile, Consumer Reports and USA Today, which use different criteria and different reviewers, all reach roughly the same results. I'm eagerly awaiting the explanation...
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    rockylee: The bottom line is if you use better material, use better engineering with less cost cutting, you end up with a better final product. This has nothing to do with Kaizen, Six Sigma, Lean Manufactoring aka JOT delivery.

    If a company correctly uses kaizen, six sigma and lean manufacturing, it will be much more efficient, and have more money left over for better engineering, not to mention higher quality materials. It can also put more content into the final product (i.e., less need for visible cost cutting).

    Also, if implemented correctly, kaizen and six sigma aren't just about cost cutting...they also enable the manufacturer to spot quality defects during the development process before the final product is released, and react more quickly to those that do pop up after sales begin, thus ensuring better quality in the long run.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I've been a part of those teams and actually grbeck, it looks better on paper than in reality. Regardless they do help to some degree.

    As lemko, said in his post or what I think he was saying that Mercedes built cars back in the day to a standard and worried little about costs. If the project cost more than they anticipated they could simpily get away with charging more money as the customer would gladly pay their price. However today that has changed to some degree because of rival competition. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    My tax dollars had better not be spent bailing out GM.

    Who said anything about that? :confuse:

    If anything, make those union boys work instead of playing cards.

    Who's playing cards? I don't know anyone at GM, who's playing cards now. The jobs bank's is at ZERO for GM, right now and GM, made a couple billion dollar profit. Again who's filling your head full of this hyperbole?

    Reduce those union boys salaries as they are ridiciously high...big deal...they put a part on a car over and over.

    fenwah, Toyota worker's salary's are $3.00 higher than UAW's and FYI, you wouldn't have a damn clue how to turn on my fathers machine let alone put a car part on a car. Your ignorance is really showing dude. Get a grip. Don't run your mouth on a subject you have absolutely ZERO clue about please. :mad: Can you tear a machine or robot apart and put it back together again? I didn't think so. Not all jobs at GM, are as easy as you claim. Again your ignorance is laughable but sad. :(

    Reduce retirement and health benefits to the union boys.

    So they should get nothing for years of dedicated service? They have given GM, a lot of money back and will do so this September, when the contract is up. Maybe your employer should cut your retirement to make an extra buck. It amazes me some people want to take away from the low man on the totem pole while feeling it's okay that executives pay themselves 500 times their lowest worker. :confuse:

    GM needs to get their head out of their *** if they ever want to compete with real automakers.

    Last time I checked GM, was still #1 in sales worldwide and by a large margin here in the U.S. Instead of just blaming the company and it's work force perhaps you should want congress to level the playing field with fixing the currency manipulation advantage the Japanese get which is a $2-13,000 profit advantage on 50% of their cars which BTW are imported into the U.S. accounting for billions in extra profit. I guess this artificial advantage is what "real" auto-manufactors get, right? As I've said before obviously you don't read my posts the current cost of healthcare also has had a crippling effect and the only solution to reduce these costs is a universal healthcare plan. This also would save billions for GM and other domestic manufactors here in the U.S.
    The Japanese have a national healthcare plan and thus are able to reduce sky rocketing costs from the greedy insurance company's, pharmaceutical industry, and doctors. ;)

    The last deal is to address the unfair trade advantage the Asians enjoy. They dump their cheaper imports on our market while they have set-up restrictive structural barriers on our exports. If they want to keep their market closed to our exports than perhaps we should return the favor. Democrats, Independents, Republicans, have recognized the domestic issues I described above as problems but somehow you've made up your own mind and ignore the facts. You have a right to your own opinion but you will be challenged when you post hyperbole on a thread.

    And this is coming from someone who hopes the G8 is the real deal.

    You could of fooled me as I'm not sure if I buy that ?

    Too bad we had to rebadge an Aussie car to do it. But the engineers in the U.S. can't develop a decent car...then so be it.

    They can but the object is to cut costs and why not use a nice car already in production in another country. There are plans to build this car in Canada.

    I do believe the 08 CTS will be a huge winner though.

    I'm surprised you say that as it's built by those awful, card playing, lazy, UAW workers in Lansing, Michigan :sick:

    Rocky
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