If it makes you guys feel any better..TL has better headlights...although they don't swivel like G's...need RL for that...and the bluetooth key, and the radar cruise, and the xm traffic. And if I wanted to relate the acura for just being a honda, I would point out that the 3.0 in the accord makes more power per liter than the 3.2 in the TL. Small tidbit that Acura fans might not like.
Agreed on the headlights..BUT it's all passive "Non-offensive" from there on. I don't like the other fronts so much either...If I want a car with a big grill...I'l buy a piece of junk Escalade...or 300C (Slightly better)
Oh, BTW, I don't think effeminate was the proper discription either. But it is true that the G employs a rounder, softer styling theme, as compared to the TL's sharp-edged approach. I guess if you equate round and soft to a woman, then....Ok, we better stop here!
Non-offensive is middle of the road...I never minded it much..but I always LOVED the rear view of my car and the side view wasn't far behind (My TL that is). Honda does middle-of-the-road styling best...killer cars...just a tad boring (With the exception of the NSX and S2K).
No argument there! I can't get enough of the view of the rear of a 911, especially with the huge rear fender flares. There's only one other thing I enjoy looking at more from the back.....
Sad but true ! ! i'm really not sure why all the bickering...G def has much more features for the money (Unless you are talking base model..in which case the TL doesn't have the performance). The TL is a tad dated, and I don't know about you guys..but now that they can be bought used...I see WAY too many. New TL will come out and set the record straight...then I'll probably want that! ! ! It is what it is. But anyone thinking the new G35 is anything like the 03-06 one shouldn't really say much in this forum...go drive one ! ! Anyone thinking praising the G is knocking the TL is too personally involved. Is this how the old-timers argued over camaro-mustang?
You do realize that the G was just redesigned right? Of course the G is going to have more hp, more torque, "bluetooth key" radar cruise.....The TL is working on its 4th year! BTW, the TL does have XM traffic.
Ummmm since I turned in my 04 this past weekend I am well aware. Since this forum is not "TL Vs G (Model run considered)", you just made my point. I remember going from 03 to 04...04 actually had brakes that work..handled (Better than 03 at least), bluetooth, dvd-a, sat radio, faster 6-disk load times, moved foglights (I had two broken ones in 8 months when they were down low), looked the part of the motor (Although 03 sounded like F1 when it was on the V-tec), etc, etc. 08/09 should be quite a car to behold. SH fwd (Like the old prelude) would make the car killer..awd even better. How the heck is that xm traffic anyway...I live in southern NJ...I doubt it would even read down here.
Different strokes for different folks I guess and no problem with that- but I desire MT in any car I'm driving on a daily basis- heavy traffic area or not.
Not sure on that 3.7 motor. I'm not one to care too much past my purchase (That's all that affects me). They seem to like the coupe to be better/faster. While new coupe looks great, the sedan-to-coupe difference isn't nearly as dramatic as to the old G (Kinda funky looking..sorry older G guys! !) I would bet they hold out on the 3.7 to give it the upper hand in performance.
I'm with you on desire..just not on practicality..did you see new evo will have their version (First from Japan..I think) of DSG? Now that I could get into. Toyotas in the mr2 was junk...bimmer way too expensive (And supposedly jerky), and I just don't like VW, although I almost got a used S4..couldn't justify the price after driving the G with it's features. Add in buying a warranty...etc...and I passed.
The EVO looks like a fun drive, and if anyone wants to let me beat on theirs, I'd love to do so.... but anyone dropping 50K+ on a Mitsubishi needs to have their head examined.
Scott!! Where ya been? They were ganging up and picking on me last night...sheesh. Evo is only like 34K....killer car. Not a single ounce of luxury/confort...but it's like a 4 door porsche ! !
I logged in late last night and saw the pounding you took...LOL.
Top Gear did a segment on the 405 bhp Mitsu EVO 8 MR FQ400(Not the new EVO), and raced it against a Lamborghini Murcielago to see if the Lambo could shake it on the track. The EVO stayed right on it's tail. They stated it to be about 47,000 pounds... in US, that's $93,746.55!!!! :surprise: Check out this LINK, if you missed the show.
Oh, BTW, I don't think effeminate was the proper discription either. But it is true that the G employs a rounder, softer styling theme, as compared to the TL's sharp-edged approach. I guess if you equate round and soft to a woman
Hey - my point exactly in a metaphor. The G has big round headlights and a curvy, rounded tail end.....
Almost bought one (the G35 that is) but the cockpit was too tight (no pun intended !!!!!).
I have that video downloaded..that was like the super-duper one. I thought that demonstration for turb lag in the end was stupid..that's what god made gear-shifters for!!! Leadfoot..between the soft lines, curves, rear ends, and "Cock"pits..where the heck is your mind ! !
LOL. Pat, I like you. I gotta give credit where credit is due.
You hang back, sorta lurking in the shadows, and pop out only when necessary. Seeing your little "Let's get back on track" posts always make me laugh a little.
i don't feel like going back now to reply to the exact post, so my apologies!
the US Acura TSX is the European Honda Accord. the TSX is very similar from the front to the TL (not exact, similar) at which point you can argue that the TL looks like a Honda...
of course, you can also argue that the G looks like a Nissan, because the JDM Skyline is the same as the G here...
anyways, being a nissan fan, i like the G better - but i can't compare too much - i have not had a chance to drive either.
If you go to any Acura dealer you will usually find about 6 G35's. That tells me they are being traded in for the TL, which I own.
By the way, while at my Infiniti Dealer, I was brought to the satellite lot where they keep their inventory, to view every available color combination, and to see different trim levels.
There is a side lot of cars which have been recently traded in. This lot was packed with Acura TLs & RLs as well as Lexus ESs & GSs and so on. Your argument holds absolutely no water at all.
dealers will stock used cars like this (whether traded in or bought off lease/at auction) in order to try to make the sale if the customer does not like the product they are selling new. it doesn't mean everyone is trading in their G35's for TL's, or vice versa.
i love nissan/infinitis - but im not so blind that i cant see there are so many good cars out there to choose from, and everyone has different priorities and requirements. i'd never get a TL over a G, but thats just because i think the G is such a beautiful car - and i know that the engine under the hood is beyond bulletproof. infinitis/nissans are IMHO better for those who like spirited driving. but again, that's just me
It's been a few days but I haven't had a chance to reply back until now. In regards to the car comparison we discussed here from that Japanese company I have a few points to make. First, the "Drift King" is a professional driver and surely adept at driving all types of vehicles to their potential. Second, do we know for a fact that all drift racing vehicles are FWD? Aren't some RWD? Unless we do we shouldn't assume the driver being adept at FWD vehicles as being a reason for the huge difference in lap times. Third, as you mentioned in an earlier post the TL-S was "tearing" around the Willow Springs track in the video and it hardly seemed to be drifting to me. Fourth, the driver did not appear to be struggling to to make the car handle the course and according to translation of his comments on the clublexus.com forum he found the car to handle the course rather easily. I think the term he used was that the vehicle went where he pointed it or something similar. Lastly, I doubt many of us here on these forums would have the bravado to take either of these cars to their limits on a track (even if it was no cost to us to do so).
So, in conclusion I think the comparison is as valid as it gets from automotive publications and that when buying a car automotive publication comparisons should have little, if any, bearing on your buying decision. A car buyer should test all the vehicles she/he can and then decide on the vehicle that suits her/him based on their own preferences. As simple as that.
IMO, you can't go wrong owning either one of them.
Lastly, I doubt many of us here on these forums would have the bravado to take either of these cars to their limits on a track (even if it was no cost to us to do so).
This, I agree with!
I was in the left lane of a 2 lane road yesterday, when a woman from the right lane popped in front of me, and failed to gain speed. After a few seconds of frustration, I decided to pass her on the right lane, thread the needle between her and the car she failed to pass, and zip back into the left lane where I was. Doing about 45, I put the pedal of my G about 3/4s of the way down, and something that I can only compare to "Millennium Falcon Light Speed" occurred... everything in my peripheral vision blurred and I was by, through and 20 lengths in front of here before I could mumble the word "woh"
Yeah, these cars are getting to the point now where they are just more than we will ever need them to be... And I like it
I'm 36 turning 37 this summer. I remember when I was a teenager in the 80s I was all hyped up on American muscle cars of the 1960s (and 1970). I dreamt of someday owning a 1970 Boss 429 Mustang back then. Or a 1968 Olds 442 (or a 1970) or a 1965 GTO or... I think you get my point. Back in the 80s, IMO, new cars were pretty boring and lame save for a few which you hardly ever saw on the road. Those American Muscle cars were still bad azz then. Nowadays our luxury sport sedans with power everything, heated seats, dual climate control, and surround sound stereo systems with 40 GB hard drives will blow the doors off of most of those old cars.
Although I agree with your conclusion as far as choices, I think you missed, or I didn't make clear the point of the driver. For the record..I don't think there is a such thing as a fwd drift car. I was merely commenting on his courage/skill. The video DEF shows that car tearing that track apart. Something in that comparison is off..cars with so similar 1) Lateral acceleration, 2) Acceleration, 4) Braking distances, and 3) Slalom speeds should all have similar lap times...like the IS and the G. Slight win..sure...2 seconds...shcoking ! ! Even given that, these are 4 door sedans...I didn't get mine for a lap time. the midrange is unbelievable and the features second to none in this price range. My original post waaaaaaaaaaaay back when had nothing to do with lap times...it was about which car is cleared better in more ways. I'm prob not the norm in that I owned an 03TL-S, 04 TLAuto, and now a new G. One ineresting observation I made is that in the G forums...there seems to be a lot more people having posted about comparing others. In the TL forum, not so many. Not sure what that says..but check it out for yourself. Oh, and on used cars at dealer lots...since 3/4 of the used cars on the lot are auction bought....donb't draw ANY conclusions on what was traded on what. A massive amount of cars are leased these days...hell let me know where you see my 04 TL I just turned in.
Let's just hope the Next Gen TL isn't like Jurassic Park 2.
There's such hype and such build up. Rumors and our expectations build and build, to a point where they are WAY out of place before it ever comes out, leading to extreme disappointment.
My Acura salesguy is starting to hear trickles of rumor coming down from above. SH-AWD may be a little further away than we anticipated, although the TSX should be seeing it soon, even maybe next year. Fact is, nobody knows for sure what the new TL is going to be, but let's hope Acura pulls out all the stops. They're gonna need to, to stay alive in this growing segment.
I would say the salesman is off base (Not unusual). For the TSX to adapt sh-awd, it would have to cost the same as the TL. Already, I can't see why anyone would buy the tsx over the tl for a few K more. I remember all the hype over the tsx (I'm a JDM fan) prior to it coming out. Luckily for it, it's under 30K which keeps it compared to cars it competed fairly with (Engine power notwithstanding)It does handle great though....but is really really really really slow. Infiniti is done with the I35, prob because it made little sense to buy it when compared to the G (Other than maybe fwd sense of security). Acura has to juggle very carefully...especially now with the new RDX (Which was a viable choice for me before the G). They have 4 cars in the 30ish - 40ish range. I have a friend who just picked up an 07 RL for 41K...they can't give them away fast enough. Now if they could just firm it up a bit, drop the 3.7 in it, and get rid of that hyundia-ish rear end. If anyone remembers the SH prelude (FWD)...that car was spectacular. Oh yeh, not to knock infiniti, but honda did the 4-wheel steer thing back in like 88 or something with the prelude also. Honda's engineering is second to none...period. Their marketing and retail forces hinder them constantly.
Scott, Where are you with the autostart. I'm not liking the initial 2K idle...I'm not comfortable putting it in drive liek that. I'm wondering how long it will want to do that for in the winter !
I haven't done the auto-start thing yet... got some bigger fish to fry first. If I had to pick one mod to do right now, with summer upon us, it'd be Ceramic Tint. I'd like to have the starter for Winter, but it can wait for now.
As of right now, it doesn't take more than a minute for the car to kick down. In the Winter, I imagine it may take a little longer, but with those RPMs, not much more time.
The car seems to read my mind. I start the car, sit there and listen to it purr... sorta allowing it to wake up. After a little time, I put my foot on the brake, and as I place my hand on the shift, it kicks down, like it knows my next step. Hard to explain, but I think I'll name her Christine. :P
lol very funny...hopefully she won't become fatally attracted to you ! ! One nice thing (TL owners can appreciate this). When the fan is on auto and blowing hard, it kicks down a notch when you push the voice command button. TL was always saying "Pardon", "Pardon" when the fan was on high...Infiniti has had voice commands since the Q, so it stands to reason they've honed it a bit better ! !
Speaking of the fan... When driving around with the climate control on, take notice to whether or not the A/C is on. If so, try to get into the habit of shutting down the A/C about 5 minutes prior to your destination, but leave the fan running.
This will help to dry out the condensation, and avoids the musty smell that some people complain about.
The A/C cabin filters in my wife's 00 Accord EX were mold magnets. That AC was ALWAYS on and it caused severe condensation, which just goes un-noticed by most everyone. In cruising around different sites, I noticed a few people mentioned the 07 G already starting to smell musty. Running the fan to dry it out completely avoid this.
Just a hunch but I'm guessing that shouldn't be a problem for the G and TL (and most cars in this segment) because they have an air filtration system for the cabin.
The issue is that the Air Filtration filter itself can get moisture build-up and over time, gets moldy & nasty. Yes, these filters can be changed, but the system remains musty smelling.
The Accord also contained this HEPA cabin filtration system, with different cabin 2 filters... it still gets musty.
These will get nasty over time, if allowed to do so. It was just a heads-up.
That's fair enough - I get your point. It is surprising that there was a huge difference in the lap times as opposed to them being grouped tightly. You're logic about the performance metrics you made is sound. It's a point I've been trying to make on these forums before whenever someones states the TL is an absolute dog performance-wise and some other car is the bees knees. When it comes to performance, save for a few outliers, I don't there is a major difference among the competitors in this segment. At least one that can be statistically proven based on the measures we mostly use. As for that comparison, I'm just not sure that 2 second difference was from anything intentional. It was probably from some factor that the testers didn't account for. But the long and the short of it is the TL-S can hang with it's competitors.
As for your other point about not buying the car to track it. I completely agree with you. While I'd love to be able to just spit out some extra cash and time to drive a car around on a race track for fun I don't have ample enough extra of either resource to do so. So, when I buy my cars I do it for other factors as well as performance too.
Now, I got my '06 TL in late '05 so I'm not on the market for a new ride just yet. Probably have another year and a half for that. At that time the TL was the obvious choice for me. I've never driven the '07 G. I have sit in it though at an auto show and a dealership. Were I to be in the market for a new ride today I'd definitely take it for a test drive. And I think my choices would come down to that or a TL-S. As, I haven't driven either I can't really say which way I'd go. But just from having sat in both I could tell you I don't like the new wheels nor the bading on the interior on the TL-S and I would want a bigger backseat and better gas mileage on that G. It sure is nice, though, to have great choices to pick from.
I will be in the market next year and I'm definitely curious to see the new TL.
It seems there is always something about the TL, kinda getting tired of it. Gas mpg makes it worse.
In 2004/2005 there were 3 comparisons between the G and The TL (Edmund, Car and driver twice), none of them favor the G in the 0-60 dept. (but the G outperforms the TL in handling :shades: )and now there are R&T and also the Willow spring lap test. A FWD outperforms a RWD? I don't know what'll happen next. I want to see the G stomps all TL's numbers once for all. :mad:
Oh yeh...def...they are all so damn close that one TINY driver error and that car loses. That's why I said way back when I wouldn't want to race this thing in my s2K. Strong launch, perfect shifts...etc..S2k will prob win. Mess up one TINY thing (S2K is a [non-permissible content removed] to launch), and it would lose...scarey. I couldn't agree more on the track thing. I have a client now with a Z06..we were talking and they are building a track here in NJ. We're in agreement on getting used shifter karts for 6-8K to go play. Who wants to play on a track with the car that takes you to work and YOU pay the insurance on...NOT ME ! ! Try explaining that accident to the insurance company and not having a police report. I read an artivle one time that Manufacturers were having people log plate #'s at autocrosses to void out warrantly claims. Not long (If not already) that insurance companies do the same.
Comments
i'm really not sure why all the bickering...G def has much more features for the money (Unless you are talking base model..in which case the TL doesn't have the performance). The TL is a tad dated, and I don't know about you guys..but now that they can be bought used...I see WAY too many. New TL will come out and set the record straight...then I'll probably want that! ! ! It is what it is. But anyone thinking the new G35 is anything like the 03-06 one shouldn't really say much in this forum...go drive one ! ! Anyone thinking praising the G is knocking the TL is too personally involved.
Is this how the old-timers argued over camaro-mustang?
BTW, what's the rumor mill say about the motor in the G37 making its way to the sedan sometime in the future?
Top Gear did a segment on the 405 bhp Mitsu EVO 8 MR FQ400(Not the new EVO), and raced it against a Lamborghini Murcielago to see if the Lambo could shake it on the track.
The EVO stayed right on it's tail.
They stated it to be about 47,000 pounds... in US, that's $93,746.55!!!! :surprise:
Check out this LINK, if you missed the show.
Looks fun to drive, but the car is butt ugly.
Hey - my point exactly in a metaphor. The G has big round headlights and a curvy, rounded tail end.....
Almost bought one (the G35 that is) but the cockpit was too tight (no pun intended !!!!!).
Pat, I like you.
I gotta give credit where credit is due.
You hang back, sorta lurking in the shadows, and pop out only when necessary.
Seeing your little "Let's get back on track" posts always make me laugh a little.
Thanks for what you do, & keep up the good work.
I think... :shades:
the US Acura TSX is the European Honda Accord. the TSX is very similar from the front to the TL (not exact, similar) at which point you can argue that the TL looks like a Honda...
of course, you can also argue that the G looks like a Nissan, because the JDM Skyline is the same as the G here...
anyways, being a nissan fan, i like the G better - but i can't compare too much - i have not had a chance to drive either.
my two cents at least...
-thene
By the way, while at my Infiniti Dealer, I was brought to the satellite lot where they keep their inventory, to view every available color combination, and to see different trim levels.
There is a side lot of cars which have been recently traded in.
This lot was packed with Acura TLs & RLs as well as Lexus ESs & GSs and so on.
Your argument holds absolutely no water at all.
i love nissan/infinitis - but im not so blind that i cant see there are so many good cars out there to choose from, and everyone has different priorities and requirements. i'd never get a TL over a G, but thats just because i think the G is such a beautiful car - and i know that the engine under the hood is beyond bulletproof. infinitis/nissans are IMHO better for those who like spirited driving. but again, that's just me
-thene
So, in conclusion I think the comparison is as valid as it gets from automotive publications and that when buying a car automotive publication comparisons should have little, if any, bearing on your buying decision. A car buyer should test all the vehicles she/he can and then decide on the vehicle that suits her/him based on their own preferences. As simple as that.
IMO, you can't go wrong owning either one of them.
This, I agree with!
I was in the left lane of a 2 lane road yesterday, when a woman from the right lane popped in front of me, and failed to gain speed.
After a few seconds of frustration, I decided to pass her on the right lane, thread the needle between her and the car she failed to pass, and zip back into the left lane where I was.
Doing about 45, I put the pedal of my G about 3/4s of the way down, and something that I can only compare to
"Millennium Falcon Light Speed" occurred... everything in my peripheral vision blurred and I was by, through and 20 lengths in front of here before I could mumble the word "woh"
Yeah, these cars are getting to the point now where they are just more than we will ever need them to be...
And I like it
Oh, and on used cars at dealer lots...since 3/4 of the used cars on the lot are auction bought....donb't draw ANY conclusions on what was traded on what. A massive amount of cars are leased these days...hell let me know where you see my 04 TL I just turned in.
LOL :P :P :P
I can't wait to see the next generation of the TL (2008).
Wait for a second! (or should I write 2 seconds :P ), is it due for 08 or 09?
Cheers :P
There's such hype and such build up. Rumors and our expectations build and build, to a point where they are WAY out of place before it ever comes out, leading to extreme disappointment.
My Acura salesguy is starting to hear trickles of rumor coming down from above.
SH-AWD may be a little further away than we anticipated, although the TSX should be seeing it soon, even maybe next year.
Fact is, nobody knows for sure what the new TL is going to be, but let's hope Acura pulls out all the stops.
They're gonna need to, to stay alive in this growing segment.
(And it's so fun to watch!)
If anyone remembers the SH prelude (FWD)...that car was spectacular. Oh yeh, not to knock infiniti, but honda did the 4-wheel steer thing back in like 88 or something with the prelude also. Honda's engineering is second to none...period. Their marketing and retail forces hinder them constantly.
Where are you with the autostart. I'm not liking the initial 2K idle...I'm not comfortable putting it in drive liek that. I'm wondering how long it will want to do that for in the winter !
If I had to pick one mod to do right now, with summer upon us, it'd be Ceramic Tint.
I'd like to have the starter for Winter, but it can wait for now.
As of right now, it doesn't take more than a minute for the car to kick down.
In the Winter, I imagine it may take a little longer, but with those RPMs, not much more time.
The car seems to read my mind.
I start the car, sit there and listen to it purr... sorta allowing it to wake up.
After a little time, I put my foot on the brake, and as I place my hand on the shift, it kicks down, like it knows my next step.
Hard to explain, but I think I'll name her Christine. :P
When driving around with the climate control on, take notice to whether or not the A/C is on.
If so, try to get into the habit of shutting down the A/C about 5 minutes prior to your destination, but leave the fan running.
This will help to dry out the condensation, and avoids the musty smell that some people complain about.
That AC was ALWAYS on and it caused severe condensation, which just goes un-noticed by most everyone.
In cruising around different sites, I noticed a few people mentioned the 07 G already starting to smell musty.
Running the fan to dry it out completely avoid this.
Yes, these filters can be changed, but the system remains musty smelling.
The Accord also contained this HEPA cabin filtration system, with different cabin 2 filters... it still gets musty.
These will get nasty over time, if allowed to do so.
It was just a heads-up.
That's fair enough - I get your point. It is surprising that there was a huge difference in the lap times as opposed to them being grouped tightly. You're logic about the performance metrics you made is sound. It's a point I've been trying to make on these forums before whenever someones states the TL is an absolute dog performance-wise and some other car is the bees knees. When it comes to performance, save for a few outliers, I don't there is a major difference among the competitors in this segment. At least one that can be statistically proven based on the measures we mostly use. As for that comparison, I'm just not sure that 2 second difference was from anything intentional. It was probably from some factor that the testers didn't account for. But the long and the short of it is the TL-S can hang with it's competitors.
As for your other point about not buying the car to track it. I completely agree with you. While I'd love to be able to just spit out some extra cash and time to drive a car around on a race track for fun I don't have ample enough extra of either resource to do so. So, when I buy my cars I do it for other factors as well as performance too.
Now, I got my '06 TL in late '05 so I'm not on the market for a new ride just yet. Probably have another year and a half for that. At that time the TL was the obvious choice for me. I've never driven the '07 G. I have sit in it though at an auto show and a dealership. Were I to be in the market for a new ride today I'd definitely take it for a test drive. And I think my choices would come down to that or a TL-S. As, I haven't driven either I can't really say which way I'd go. But just from having sat in both I could tell you I don't like the new wheels nor the bading on the interior on the TL-S and I would want a bigger backseat and better gas mileage on that G. It sure is nice, though, to have great choices to pick from.
Ed
It seems there is always something about the TL, kinda getting tired of it. Gas mpg makes it worse.
In 2004/2005 there were 3 comparisons between the G and The TL (Edmund, Car and driver twice), none of them favor the G in the 0-60 dept. (but the G outperforms the TL in handling :shades: )and now there are R&T and also the Willow spring lap test. A FWD outperforms a RWD? I don't know what'll happen next. I want to see the G stomps all TL's numbers once for all. :mad: