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Comments
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
No matter what the "Global Climate Trend" is showing, you will ALWAYS have Winter Storms roll through.
And heat waves.
They are not related to "Global Climate" but are instead "local weather events."
Learn It. Live It. Love It.
At what cost to our economy and how many jobs will be lost? It is easy to sit back and cheer for such nonsense when you have a good job and it is not in jeopardy, by these thugs running agencies like the EPA. Your day will come. I don't want to hear you whining. :sick:
Developing countries react furiously to leaked draft agreement that would hand more power to rich nations, sideline the UN's negotiating role and abandon the Kyoto protocol
The UN Copenhagen climate talks are in disarray today after developing countries reacted furiously to leaked documents that show world leaders will next week be asked to sign an agreement that hands more power to rich countries and sidelines the UN's role in all future climate change negotiations.
The document is also being interpreted by developing countries as setting unequal limits on per capita carbon emissions for developed and developing countries in 2050; meaning that people in rich countries would be permitted to emit nearly twice as much under the proposals.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disa- rray-danish-text
How much will it take for the people of the World to realize what a hoax is being pushed on us all?
That definitely includes me. My company is not going forward "guns ablazing" but are cutting down too. I had a 20% pay cut this summer for a month, and this holiday season we are shutting down for a week, no pay. So don't think I'm exempt from the economic pain we are all living through.
But I think declaring "Oh No, the EPA is going to force employers to clean up their act - Oh, the Humanity" is a "little bit" on the extreme side.
Even though we have no idea at this point what the EPA might expect employers to do, so it's just GUESSING at anything we way, my guess is that employers who are lean and strong can get clean without going into the red. If they are on the edge, just hanging on, then the economy and the free market will dictate what happens to them.
I would guess "Forever" because it's not a hoax. That arctic ice ain't meltin' it's own self.
The warming IS occurring. The causes? Not clear.
But man's activity CANNOT be dismissed as a definite non-cause.
But man's activity CANNOT be dismissed as a definite non-cause.
Maybe the Martians are shooting rays at our poles to melt the ice. The Martian's activities CANNOT be dismissed as a definite non-cause either.
My working theory is that they are bouncing these rays off the moon and directly onto our poles. Send me a few million and my study of this issue will continue.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
How is this any different than any other time in history? Temps go up, temps go down...Ice expands, Ice retreats....Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly...
Look at the post above - 30 years ago we were on the edge of the next ice age, now we are about to see palm trees at the poles....
If the sky is always falling how come it has not hit us yet?
I agree with you that's true in the private sector. But as I said before the people and organizations that feed off of the taxpayers' money have sufficieint power these days, to write the laws and regulations as they wish to enrich themselves and their friends. They also have sufficient power now to override the Constitution, what with their Patriot Act and the Executive Branch deciding to spend money (that is supposed to be the Legislature's arena). Here is a great example of how organizations are looking out for themselves.
I'm sure this will make you trust the government, and want to pay more taxes. http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-12-07-mcneill_N.htm?loc=interstitials- kip
If there was no "GW crisis", what would all these environmentalists and climatologists do for work? There would be a lot less need for them, and zippo fame.
I think the GW crisis is nothing more than a quest for money and fame. A modern-day version of selling Snake Oil, supported by government officials who are getting their share, just like these retired generals.
Just thought I would give you his stock answer.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
And to me, the most unexplainable.
And it's easily typed quickly, making it a good "stock" answer.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Arctic sea ice extent averaged over November 2009 was 10.26 million square kilometers (3.96 million square miles). This was 1.05 million square kilometers (405,000 square miles) below the 1979 to 2000 average for November, but 420,000 square kilometers (160,000 square miles) above the record low for the month, which occurred in November 2006. In general, the ice edge is now at or slightly beyond its average location, with two notable exceptions: Hudson Bay and the Barents Sea.
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
No need to shed tears for the Polar Bears. Just the Eskimos that can only get fuel during a two week window in the late summer. A little less ice would make it better for all those along the Arctic coast line. Plus give us back Greenland for cattle and crops. Global Warming is a lot more Plus than minus.
The EPA will probably force big business to use more robots and reduce the human work force due to the humans polluting the atmosphere by continually emitting CO2, (breathing)!!!
PS: The best climate in European history is NOT now! It was the Medieval Warm Period, from about 800 to 1300AD, just before the Little Ice Age!! It was several degrees warmer than now. Grapes were grown in England! The Vikings farmed on Greenland! Civilization and population boomed.
Then came the Little Ice Age, and the starvation and plagues that devastated Europe. Even the Thames River froze over!
Search for: “Little Ice Age” and “Medieval Warm Period”! Some global warming is far better for humans than global cooling!!
thanks
I think the only good factor for fuel usage is people stay home. Snow and cold weather certainly cause more fuel to be burned. We'd be better off with warmer weather.
People keep saying “Yes, the Climategate scientists behaved badly. But that doesn’t mean the data is bad. That doesn’t mean the earth is not warming.”
Let me start with the second objection first. The earth has generally been warming since the Little Ice Age, around 1650. There is general agreement that the earth has warmed since then. See e.g. Akasofu . Climategate doesn’t affect that.
Intrigued by the curious shape of the average of the homogenized Darwin records, I then went to see how they had homogenized each of the individual station records. What made up that strange average shown in Fig. 7? I started at zero with the earliest record. Here is Station Zero at Darwin, showing the raw and the homogenized versions.
Figure 8 Darwin Zero Homogeneity Adjustments. Black line shows amount and timing of adjustments.
Yikes again, double yikes! What on earth justifies that adjustment? How can they do that? We have five different records covering Darwin from 1941 on. They all agree almost exactly. Why adjust them at all? They’ve just added a huge artificial totally imaginary trend to the last half of the raw data! Now it looks like the IPCC diagram in Figure 1, all right but a six degree per century trend? And in the shape of a regular stepped pyramid climbing to heaven? What’s up with that?
Those, dear friends, are the clumsy fingerprints of someone messing with the data Egyptian style they are indisputable evidence that the “homogenized” data has been changed to fit someone’s preconceptions about whether the earth is warming.
The rest of the story
This goes into detail on how the warming scientists adjusted the data to make their case. Without a case for MM/GW they would be out of a job. So it is understandable, though reprehensible.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=501941200001&dat- a_set=0&num_neighbors=1
Pick your own station and see the trend in raw data. Not what CRU and Al Gore want you to believe.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/
San Diego peaked about 1982 according to GISS.
Seems very appropriate. Welcome.
EPA Clears Way for CO2 Legislation (AutoObserver)
"The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Monday officially said it considers carbon dioxide potentially dangerous to the environment and human health. Its final ruling on the long- and still-debated issue sets the stage for coming regulation for passenger vehicles and other transportation sectors."
Come on Steve, what do you think of the raw data as opposed to the corrupted data?
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houdini1 says, "gagrice, do you notice how the MMGW devotees never, never comment on the real data, etc. that you post? The silence is deafening."
Like Gary has told me, "he does not trust historical temperature records" so he does not even trust his OWN post.
Who's to say that THIS chart is right and someone who takes the "highest" or the "lowest"high temps recorded in a city in a day and makes a chart of that is not correct?
I can right now go find dozens of articles reporting the warming trends. I have already posted a lot of them this year and last year.
I could post 300 articles showing the evidence of warming, but they get poo-poo'ed by the anti-MMGW crowd just as much as Gary's posts get poo-poo'ed by people like me who KNOW that the issue is not settled and we need MORE study.
So I ask you Gary and whomever else:
What makes THIS data more reliable/less corrupt than any other data? Is the scientist/weather climate specialist who created this chart "NOT BIASED" and "NOT WORKING FOR HIS GRANT MONEY?"
I thought Gary said there are none of those?
""i wonder if discussion of atmospheric carbon is appropriate here? ""
Since the title of this discussion is “Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?”, and we are on the 352nd page of that discussion, it would seem that mention of previous global warmings and coolings, and their impact upon mankind would be highly appropriate!!
A realization that major uncontrolable events, such as eruptions of supervolcanos and varying solar output, have produced far greater consequences than whether you happen to drive a large SUV or a subcompact!
These highly intrusive and expensive ‘cures’ are far worse for humanity than the ‘illness’ of so called global warming! To a large extent they seem like “trying to sweep the ocean off the shore”!!!!
PS: If this Topic is indeed boring, it will soon wither and die due to lack of postings! If you don’t want to contribute to this discussion, don’t! But, also, don’t bore us that do with your opinions about the content of the discussion without adding something of value! Perhaps add something like: “The EX35 has performance that matches, or exceeds, that of many 1960’s high performance cars, while getting double, or triple, the fuel economy and polluting far, far less!!”! Perhaps some responses to that would swerve the discussion down that avenue! Or, open a new ‘Topic’ of your choice, while leaving this one for a knowlegable discussion of “Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?”!
PPS: Not to brag, but “I am an expert on nothing, with reasonable opinions about everything!!”!
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Because Gary has looked at the issue and determined, as have I, that MMGW is a bunch of hooey being foisted on us by charlatans trying to make a quick buck at our expense.
You are fond of saying that your mind is open, and that you have access to all this info.... but the only things that you post and most of your arguments are in support of MMGW. I learned long ago that you should never pay much attention to what people SAY, but always pay attention to what they DO.
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""Snow and cold weather certainly cause more fuel to be burned. We'd be better off with warmer weather.""
Seven years ago I produced a ‘major climate shift’ for me by moving from Chicago to central North Carolina! Rather than the several feet of snow each year, down here I have seen four inches total in seven years! Summers are 4~5 degrees warmer, but winters are also about 20~25 degrees warmer! I use a little more AC, but a lot less propane for heating! How much energy could be saved if the globe was indeed a little warmer!??! How much extra fossil fuel will be wasted to keep us warm in the next Ice Age!??!
Humans are naturally subtropical animals. Any long term human environment below 60 degrees requires supplemental heat for health and comfort. The warmer the climate, the better it is for most of mankind! I am more concerned about keeping my butt warm than a polar bear’s butt cool!!
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That's a pretty broad generalization that likely won't hold up to scrutiny - I'm thinking crop failures and food shortages as one scenario that would directly impact your long term human environment. (Here's an example link that tries to tie drought in with global warming).
Nope, wrongo.
I have not ever said "for SURE, the warming is man-caused" and have ALWAYS kept an open mind. I have always said, and you both know this is true, that the JURY IS STILL OUT on what man's activities are doing to the global climate. It's not been decided with finality on either side.
This would be a boring forum if we all agreed on everything an grabbed a rope looking for AlGore. Edmunds could just close it down if there were no debate left to be done.
If you enjoy posting here, then you owe me THANKS if anything for keeping the Spirit Of Debate alive.
The more that global temperatures remain constant and predictable, the better off man is.
Swings of a few degrees either way have BAD consequences.
And you will also find that it will be fairly hard to convince people who understand the geological history of the Earth, that simply because an area becomes arid, that it is the result of MMGW. The greatest arid region of the world the Sahara - was created long before man had more than a few campfires going.
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab26
The world climate and geography have never really been stable. To think that the world is and must stay at its current status, is certainly not an educated view. It will get hotter or colder, jungles and deserts will appear, tsunamis occur, volcanos erupt, ...
No!! How unnatural would that be! Let me see what the level of natural knowledge is here. If I ask "Is the Moon orbiting Earth 1) the same distance from Earth each year, 2) getting closer to Earth each year, or 3) getting further from Earth each year", what's your answer?
Long-term - the next 1 billion years; is the Earth going to get hotter or colder, or stay the same? How is it possible that the earth might have a 2nd sun at that point?
There has been warming and cooling and warming and cooling ad infinitum since the earth was formed. Cool periods have been associated with famine and hardship; recall the Vikings farming in Greenland during the medieval warm period until the next cooling forced them to abandon the effort.
Our puny efforts to control either phenomena in any meaninful way are doomed to failure. As far as cars causing global warming, lets take another look after the Indians put one or two hundred million cars on the road in the next decade (to say nothing of the Chinese) while our government puts us back into the automotive stone age.
Incidentally, there have now been 17 straight days without any visible sunspots and I think that means we might be in for some cooling in the near future. Perhaps larsb could look into this.
Regards, DQ
That doesn't sound like a lot considering that ocean temps during an El Nino year run about half a degree warmer (but I think that's usually reported in °F).
Double or triple that and we may be raising soybeans in L'Anse Aux Meadows. And nowhere south of the St. Lawrence.
The moon is moving away from Earth at a speed of about 1 1/2 inches (3.8 centimeters) per year.
http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/moon_worldbook.html
Oh, did you realize the Moon was created by 1 of those "sudden changes" in nature?
Change is the ONLY constant.
We already do.......grow grapes, that is. When we lived near London we had two vines in the garden that both produced good crops of black grapes. Here in Lincoln, the Bishop's Palace, (part of the Cathedral), still has vineyards that were intially laid out in Roman times. Bring on some GW and we'll be happy.
As for depending on the French for our wine; it will be a very cold day in Hades before that happens in this household. Italy and Germany are our prime suppliers with Australia, New Zealand, Chile, Portugal and Ca taking up the slack.........with just a leetle French plonk now and again.
With you on the butter and olive oil too.
Good taste is universal, I believe.
Is this a great country or what?
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http://www.gogreenmobility.com/new/tax.php
I am leaning toward the GEM as there are lots of dealers and aftermarket parts.
http://www.gemcar.com/
http://www.badboybuggies.com/tax-letter.pdf
This dealer is sold out. http://www.bowensbadboys.com/
Great for hunting and fishing trips. Green hunter gets tax credit for NEV.
$5590 Tax Credit on this beauty. :shades:
E-mails stolen from climate scientists show they stonewalled skeptics and discussed hiding data — but the messages don't support claims that the science of global warming was faked, according to an exhaustive review by The Associated Press.
The 1,073 e-mails examined by the AP show that scientists harbored private doubts, however slight and fleeting, even as they told the world they were certain about climate change. However, the exchanges don't undercut the vast body of evidence showing the world is warming because of man-made greenhouse gas emissions.
The AP studied all the e-mails for context, with five reporters reading and rereading them — about 1 million words in total.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Basically trying to dump data to cover their scam. Isn't that what you see is as, Vern?
Are they changing anyone's mind about GW, though? I strongly doubt it.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Scientific consensus, the e-mails reveal, is a tautology: According to global warming alarmists, anyone who expresses any degree of skepticism is by definition not a serious scientist.
In one released e-mail, Phil Jones, head of the CRU, and Michael Mann, the lead author of the third report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), discuss ways to delegitimize Climate Journal, whose editor has published peer-reviewed articles by global warming "skeptics." Jones assures Mann that one way or another he and a colleague will prevent two such articles from appearing in the next report of the IPCC, "even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is."
Science depends on a willingness to continually retest hypotheses against the available data. Yet the UEA researchers did everything possible to prevent such testing, including destroying the raw data. The CRU's temperature data is "adjusted" to account for different means of collection at various stations around the world. When researchers sought the raw data to examine those adjustments, Jones and colleagues first resisted and eventually destroyed much of the data. Other e-mails speak of deleting all correspondence related to the preparation of the fourth IPCC report.
One e-mail speaks of "trick[ing]" the data to hide the lack of global warming since 1998, despite the continual rise in carbon dioxide emissions. In an e-mail from UEA, a researcher laments, "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment, and it is a travesty that we can't." But no such doubts about the climate models, upon which predictions of catastrophe are predicated, were ever expressed publicly. Another e-mail discusses strategies to obscure the uncomfortable fact that for long periods within the last thousand years, way before any human industrial activity, the earth was far warmer than today.
THE E-MAILS, opined The Sunday Times of London, constitute not a "smoking gun, but a mushroom cloud" in terms of the doubts cast on the so-called global warming consensus. The chicanery revealed does not disprove the theories of the global warming alarmists, but it makes a mockery of the notion that there is a scientific consensus.
There is more to the cover-up
We knew we couldn't take them serious at all before this, but, doesn't this convert any of y'all over to the correct side after reading this article? They're running scared trying to cover their fannies, boys!
They're basically so full of..ummm....crap that their eyes have turned brown many moon ago. :shades:
AAMOF the Chiricahua Apache that used to roam free on this very County I reside in here in SE Arizona, Cochise County, have so much more common sense than these in the cult of GW that it's really past reasonable sense and sensibility, huh? Yee-haw...gidde-up boys!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
"We have been on the Internet nearly six years voicing our beliefs in that humanity has been mistreating “Earth Mother” way too long."
Lockergnome
Just another better safe than sorry sheep. Where has he been? Al Gore's movie is so full of lies it is not worth the time to watch it. Doing our best not to destroy the planet is a good thing. Going overboard with some kind of scheme that puts $billions into the pockets of the uber-wealthy does not add up. If Al Gore believed what he preaches he would at least live a lifestyle with a carbon footprint smaller than a non believer like GW Bush. When you fly around in a Gulf Stream (my dream transportation) and have limo's idling to keep cool while you give a 90 minute Global Warming speech, your actions are much louder than your words.
If this government wanted to make some changes that would have a long term affect, they would get serious about shutting down our borders. Cut off all health care to illegal mothers sneaking across the border to have US born babies. Population growth is one of the major subjects at Copenhagen. Yet we encourage an increase with our collective Liberal actions. You cannot have it both ways. Get some statistics on the ethnic groups with the largest families. So much for one child per family as proposed by the Climate Change Religion.