Yeah, I can't wait until we start hitting the 100's this summer. The warmers won't be able to say a word because now they have said that current weather means nothing !!
Trump was on Cavuto this afternoon making fun of warmists. It said it was a big scam and that many of the big U.S. companies were jumping off the gw band wagon. Very interesting. He said any belief in gw is done, over, kaput.
Hopefully the message gets to our leaders before they pass out our $100 billion that Hillary promised in Copenhagen. As we know talk is cheap. And Congress is running scared right now. So maybe Common sense will carry the day.
You guys are "yucking it up" like something REALLY happened, like all of a sudden there was some scientific breakthrough that PROVED warming is not happening....
Sorry to bust up the YukFest, but......
That ice up in the Norf Pole ain't meltin' its own self.
Since 1979, the size of the summer polar ice cap has shrunk more than 20 percent.
It ain't because of "global cooling" my friends....:)
That ice up in the Norf Pole ain't meltin' its own self.
Why not? It probably formed on its own just like the ice in Antartica formed.
Even after the continent of Antarctica had drifted to near its present location, its climate was subtropical. Then, 35.5 million years ago, ice formed on Antarctica in about 100,000 years, which is an "overnight" shift in geological terms.
"Our studies show that just over thirty-five million years ago, 'poof,' there was an ice sheet where there had been subtropical temperatures before," Huber says
What caused the CO2 level to be so high, and then drop so much? Do you think nature can't do this all on her own?
"We found that the likely culprit was a major drop in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, especially CO2. From the temperature data and existing proxy records indicating a sharp drop in CO2 near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary, we are establishing a link between the sea surface temperatures and the glaciation of Antarctica."
Why do you continue to think that CO2 levels and temperature changes are solely the work of man? when science is telling you otherwise. I tend to believe these guys as they have no major $$ motive, such as selling carbon-credits.
Tropical weather around the world would also explain how all that oil from plant and animal life is in Alaska. I bet Alaska once had lovely palm trees.
"Meantime, the low level of interest in small cars highlights the challenge car makers face as they try to gage the return they'll get on their investments in smaller, more fuel-efficient engines as well as conventional hybrids, plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles - all vehicles they are being pushed to build by government policy demanding ever-higher annual fuel efficiency figures for their retail fleets."
Tropical weather around the world would also explain how all that oil from plant and animal life is in Alaska. I bet Alaska once had lovely palm trees.
The Arctic was once a tropical paradise. Well drillers find fossils and fossilized palm trees on a regular basis. There were also Mastodons and Saber tooth tigers. Taking 15 or even 150 year snippets and trying to build a case against man is ridiculous. It serves no purpose except for the corrupt politicians around the World. Well they got caught with their hands in the Cookie jar. I would like to see some fraud charges and convictions.
The truth is most people would rather not drive an econobox. Many do to save money on fuel. If they could drive a full size and get decent mileage they would do that. Many have gone the other direction buying bigger as a protest against the AGW liars. I will admit when gas hit 4 bucks I would think twice before driving down the hill to Costco. Had nothing to do with GW. Just me being cheap.
More embarrassments for the U.N. and 'settled' science.
All of this matters because the IPCC has been advertised as the last and definitive word on climate science. Its reports are the basis on which Al Gore, President Obama and others have claimed that climate ruin is inevitable unless the world reorganizes its economies with huge new taxes on carbon. Now we are discovering the U.N. reports are sloppy political documents intended to drive the climate lobby's regulatory agenda.
We took an Alaskan cruise in July 2009. On this cruise we went through Glacier Bay. At the entrance to Galcier Bay, the " U.S. Park Rangers " ( the U.S. Government's own sworn Officers for the Department of Natural Resources ) came onboard to give a guided tour and history of Glacier Bay. During the tour they distributed National Park Service maps of Glacier Bay.
The following is what the map specifically shows and what the Rangers said:
Glacier Bay was first discovered by explorers in 1789. At that time it was just the head of the glacier and not yet a bay. As the glacier started to receed the bay was left as a result of the glacier movin g back on itself. (They do not know how long the glacier was before it's discovery.) Between 1789 and 1912 the glacier receeded about 26 miles.
Now keep in mind that in that 128 year period there was no automobiles, no mass manufacturing or anything else that was a man made pollutant that would have caused the glacier to loose 26 miles of ice.
What clinches the Government being caught in it's own printed ("public documented map") lie is the fact that the map also shows that between 1912 and 1966 the Glacier has grown 5 miles. This is with the introduction of trains, planes and automobiles running on OIL PRODUCTS and the manufacturing evolution.
It appears that "pollution" must not be the problem they want us to believe.
The final word on this is the statement made by the Park Rangers that the Glacier is not receeding but is growing today at a rate of " 7 feet a DAY ".
The environmentalist show videos of the ice falling off the glacier face into the water and try to make us believe the glacier is receeding. The Rangers told us that when a glacier is loosing ice into the water ( called calving ) that it is actually growning. When a glacier is dying the ice moves back away from the water.
All the scientist I see on the Science Channel and National Geographic say that the earth has been warming up from it's 6th Ice Age for the last 10,000 years and I truly believe we can't stop it.
Now what does everyone think about "Global Warming"?
Now keep in mind that in that 128 year period there was no automobiles, no mass manufacturing or anything else that was a man made pollutant that would have caused the glacier to loose 26 miles of ice.
London banned coal fires (briefly) in 1306 because of the air pollution. Peasoupers. Nothing to do with the 16 glaciers of Glacier Bay, but pollution isn't a 21st century invention.
But most of the glaciers in Glacier Bay have been thinning and receding for several decades. And a flow rate is different from receding.
It would be good to see Gore living in his car on skid row. That would be justice. Problem is he is the Google darling, or he was. I think they let him in before the stock went public. Not sure how much of his $100 million is in Google stock. Sorry Tipper no more trips to NYC shopping. I can't make the payment on our Gulf Stream jet.
DALLAS, Feb 16 (Reuters) - Texas and several national industry groups on Tuesday filed separate petitions in federal court challenging the government's authority to regulate U.S. greenhouse gas emissions.
Texas, which leads U.S. states in carbon dioxide emissions due to its heavy concentration of oil refining and other industries, will see a major impact if U.S. mandatory emissions reductions take effect.
In December, the Environmental Protection Agency ruled that greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide endanger human health, opening the door for the agency to issue mandatory regulations to reduce them.
Texas said it had filed a petition for review challenging the EPA's "endangerment finding" with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. Texas has also asked the EPA to reconsider its ruling.
"The EPA's misguided plan paints a big target on the backs of Texas agriculture and energy producers and the hundreds of thousands of Texans they employ," Texas Gov. Rick Perry said.
The National Association of Manufacturers, the American Petroleum Institute, and the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association also said on Tuesday they filed a petition challenging the EPA in federal appeals court.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and U.S. iron and steel makers have also signaled they would file lawsuits.
Not all the AGW Cult members have gotten the word yet:
Environmental groups said Texas should focus on building cleaner energy sources instead of filing lawsuits.
"Governor Perry should win an Olympic medal for taking the environment downhill," said Luke Metzger at Environment Texas. "Global warming is the greatest environmental threat facing Texas and the planet and Governor Perry's obstructionism puts the state at great risk."
Conservative Republicans like Perry have been sounding the alarm of job losses in the debate over regulating greenhouse gas emissions -- a hot-button issue at a time of high joblessness and economic uncertainty.
The EPA is threatening to regulate carbon emissions if Congress does not. In June, the House of Representatives narrowly passed a cap and trade bill that would allow industry to buy and trade pollution permits, but the legislation has stalled in the Senate.
President Barack Obama would rather have Congress pass a bill that could provide more protections for industry while also controlling pollution. But he is using the threat of EPA regulation to encourage lawmakers.
Some prominent Senate Democrats have predicted that comprehensive climate control legislation, including a cap-and-trade mechanism, will not pass this year.
Is Obama and the Dems not happy with only losing 8.4 million jobs during their watch? The Democrats worried about re-election are backing off the stupid Cap n Trade business.
Yes the hockey stick has been shot down in the past. We just never got the perpetrator to admit it was contrived using false data and missing data. I am sure Phil Jones' name is mud to all the Politicians and scam artists that were banking on the big Carbon Bucks making them rich. Had nothing to do with a cleaner planet.
Hmm, they are suing for the RIGHT TO KEEP POLLUTING.
You yourself hate the NIMBYs. So Perry is saying we want a balance between sterile air and a good economy. Cap n Trade would likely bankrupt TX with its uncontrolled emissions standards. I drove across TX on a vacation in 2006 and last year. I did not notice as much pollution as in the LA Basin where uncontrolled population is permitted.
I was visiting with a neighbor last week. He is involved in a lawsuit to block more homes from being built in our area. Seems the county wants to give a big contractor a variance on lot size. We do not have sewer and the county wants to allow septic systems on 1/2 acre lots. Not only that but the road that does not go through is already over built according to the law. It all comes back to greedy politicians wanting more tax dollars.
Nothing is pollution free as you would like. Even your new solar panels built in China caused considerable pollution in that country.
I used to be really big on solar energy, putting panels on my house as well as a local school when I was on the school board. But that may all be for naught. There’s a new boogeyman in the world of global warming: Nitrogen Trifluoride
On Lubos Motls The Reference Frame he has as pointed out that a greenhouse gas emitted during the production of solar panels and HDTVs, nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) that is used for cleaning the electronics, is about 17,000 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.
The concentration of NF3 in the atmosphere was artificially increased by a factor of 20 during the last two decades. The measurements of the concentration surpassed the previous estimates by a factor of five.
According to the Scripps Institute; “ the present 5,400 tons in the atmosphere is on the rise at 11 percent per year” - that will stay there for 700+ years – creates the equivalent warming of all Finland’s CO2 emissions.
According to Lubos, given the fact that the solar panels produce about the same percentage of the global energy as Finland, it is reasonable to guess that the state-of-the-art solar panels that would replace fossil fuels would cause a comparable amount of warming per Joule as fossil fuels.
So let’s just say – everything causes global warming, and leave it at that.
I see the northern part of AZ and 4 corners as drought stricken. They are still digging out from the biggest snow storm in decades. That should end their drought. I know we are ahead of our average rainfall here in So CA by a lot.
I wouldn't be so sure. The report you are referring to said it was compiled by "scientists". Scientists don't have such a good record these days. I would be more apt to believe the report if it had been done by baboons !!
But I remember from a couple of years ago, that climatologists were putting the stories out in the media that the droughts we were seeing was further evidence of GW and MMGW at that.
So now that there is no drought, now it's we can expect more rain?!
So if GW were a multiple choice test, we would choose answer "All of the Above" when asked GW causes: hotter temperatures, colder temperatures, droughts, more rain, more snow, more confusion, and more corruption.
No matter what happens with the weather and the climate, scientists claim that's due to GW and CO2, and you'd tell us that we should believe that? It sounds similar to how most fortune-tellers make a living; but at least they're only hurting those who willingly walk in the door.
I had already read that Science Daily piece. You noticed I am sure they failed to mention nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) that is used for cleaning the electronics, is about 17,000 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.
You are not alone feeling smug about your solar panels. There are many feeling that way about hybrids. Which we are just now finding out are more polluting than even thought. If given enough time the ECO NUTS will destroy the planet. Not to mention the economy of the World.
I am glad you bought Evergreen Solar panels. It will help our balance of trade with China. I also own a few shares of their stock. I bought years ago and forgot about. The stock has not done much since I bought it.
Facing the difficult economic reality of competing on the world stage, Massachusetts based Evergreen Solar, Inc is turning to China. Lauded as a leader among green energy businesses in the state, the company is taking advantage of the subsidies, cheap labor and production costs offered in Asia. It's a simple matter of dollars and sense.
"You have low labor costs and low overhead costs in China but, you also get enormous help from the government and so it's difficult to compete in the United States if you have to contend with higher labor costs and lower government assistance," said Rick Feldt, the CEO of Evergreen Solar.
I don't think solar panels are evil at all. I think they pollute like everything else man does. The act of living has negative impacts on the planet.
I happen to believe that those that use such devices as well as driving hybrids or recycling certain items are not realistically assessing their own impact on the earth. They somehow justify what they do believing they are pollution neutral.
Even if we lived in caves and ate nothing but berries we would be polluting when we defecate or build a fire to keep warm. There is no such thing as pollution free living or carbon neutral. It is all part of the scam we have been led to believe over the last 40 years.
then we aren't exhanging it with O2. And if we aren't exchanging it with O2, we aren't breathing. And if we aren't breathing, we aren't alive, now are we? And our atmosphere can fully handle all of the Co2 we breathe out. And all of the Co2 the cows and horses breathe out as well.
And, when chunks of ice fall off of glaciers, they are really growing. All of this sounds all right and all of it sounds believable.
We've come full circle. And most of us in here aren't lying awake at night trying to figure out how we can screw our fellow man out of tax dollars supporting a GW plan and/or a GW problem to "fix." Holes in the ozone are getting bigger and wider...or are they staying the same size?
And do scientists still worry about the "ozone" layer like they did in the 80's and 90's? And how much sun is busting through there and penetrating our skin and possibly causing skin cancer. Might there be a potential link here to blaming GW on men? Using too many propellants from cartridges that go up and destroy the ozone layer is from man. That's why we are using more and more non-CFC(chlorofluorocarbon) drugs now, right?
Is this more fodder for Al Gore to glob on to, here? Dangerous linking material to controlling the masses to do what certain men want them to do, for the "overall betterment of mankind?"
As many of you know, Global Warming is not about the climate.
It is a fear based sales presentation by collectivists to achieve "Social Justice", or a redistribution of wealth. Theft plain and simple. These people have no respect for property rights.
An elaborate presentation to control your life, liberty and property. A return to the primitive, a negation of the mind and a return to the cave.
Fear is the most powerful way to influence human behavior and demogouges are using it all the time.
So what will be the next presentation from the bed bugs? What are they going to save us from next?
The most dangerous people in the world are the world improvers.
But they have a different "end game" than coal power and other dirty fossil fuel energy systems - because they have a "pollution reversing" factor.
And after they are produced, they set about allowing for other means of dirty pollution to NOT be used.
The "net pollution factor" is NEGATIVE for both solar panels and hybrid cars.
In the meantime, the owners have the satisfaction of knowing that they are doing what any little one person can do to help.
Solar panels do generate pollution during manufacture. But it's VERY VERY controlled, at least in the USA. OSHA and the EPA and local and county governments have strict policies on pollution control. I know how strict because my cubicle is right beside the Environmental and Safety manager for my company. I know how strictly they enforce the rules, because I hear a lot of the conversations which take place regarding our environmental permits.
Without those agencies controlling things where they can, I can assure you that this would be a MUCH MORE POLLUTED country.
Every time I go to California beach, beaches being one my all-time favorite places to be, I wonder how much more beautiful the vistas would be if you could see through the smog a few more miles.
That fact ALONE is enough to make me bend over backward to be as clean-living a person as I can be.
Solar panels do generate pollution during manufacture. But it's VERY VERY controlled, at least in the USA.
What percentage of PV cells do you think are made in the USA? My guess would be less than 10%. They don't build CFLs and PVs in China just for the cheap labor. It is environmental regulations here that block their manufacture. So is it environmentally sound to use a product in the USA that cannot be built in the USA under our regulations? I find it hypocritical to do so. My research is more toward the mandated CFL bulbs that cannot be made here. That comes from the people at Lights of America.
More American jobs lost in the process of becoming Carbon neutral.
It's "environmentally POSITIVE" to choose any product from ANY country as long as that product, during it's LIFETIME, saves more pollution that it created during it's manufacture.
Net positive is the goal, and once that goal is achieved, WHO SHOULD CARE about the manufacturing process?
By the way - my net usage since firing up the solar panels is -34 kwh as of today. Which has offset 518 lbs of CO2 so far. Not a ton yet, but heading there....
Permafrost Line in Quebec Retreats 80 Miles in 50 Years, Study Says
The southern limit of permafrost around the James Bay region in Quebec has moved 80 miles to the north since 1957, according to a new study. Scientists at the Université Laval tracked the northerly retreat of the tundra by examining distinctive, oval-shaped land elevations known as palsas, which form over permafrost. By comparing aerial photos taken in the James Bay region between the 51st and 53rd parallels in 1957 with findings from helicopter surveys in 2004 and 2005, the scientists documented the swift poleward movement of the permafrost line. The study, published in the journal Permafrost and Periglacial Processes, also found that permafrost was in an advanced state of deterioration as far north as the 55th parallel. “If this trend keeps up, what is left of the palsas in the James Bay bogs will disappear altogether in the near future, and it is likely that the permafrost will suffer the same fate,” said one researcher. James Bay, bordered by Quebec and Ontario, forms the southernmost portion of Hudson Bay. As the Arctic has warmed in many areas by 3 to 4 degrees F in recent decades, permafrost has been melting throughout the region, and the tundra is beginning to disappear, as well.
Comments
well, it shows that in our society, some people are more equal than others.
link title
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
He was probably right in there with the rest of them trying to figure out how to make money on the scam. Maybe a GW sitcom.
The warming trend is not over.
GW was never a "scam" at any point.
You guys are "yucking it up" like something REALLY happened, like all of a sudden there was some scientific breakthrough that PROVED warming is not happening....
Sorry to bust up the YukFest, but......
That ice up in the Norf Pole ain't meltin' its own self.
Since 1979, the size of the summer polar ice cap has shrunk more than 20 percent.
It ain't because of "global cooling" my friends....:)
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Taxing our citizens will not make GW go away or come again. We get what we get and make do with it.
Why not? It probably formed on its own just like the ice in Antartica formed.
Even after the continent of Antarctica had drifted to near its present location, its climate was subtropical. Then, 35.5 million years ago, ice formed on Antarctica in about 100,000 years, which is an "overnight" shift in geological terms.
"Our studies show that just over thirty-five million years ago, 'poof,' there was an ice sheet where there had been subtropical temperatures before," Huber says
http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Prehistoric_Global_Cooling_Caused_By_CO2_999.h- - - tml
What caused the CO2 level to be so high, and then drop so much? Do you think nature can't do this all on her own?
"We found that the likely culprit was a major drop in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, especially CO2. From the temperature data and existing proxy records indicating a sharp drop in CO2 near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary, we are establishing a link between the sea surface temperatures and the glaciation of Antarctica."
Why do you continue to think that CO2 levels and temperature changes are solely the work of man? when science is telling you otherwise. I tend to believe these guys as they have no major $$ motive, such as selling carbon-credits.
Tropical weather around the world would also explain how all that oil from plant and animal life is in Alaska. I bet Alaska once had lovely palm trees.
Still does - even got a pic.
Somewhat related to global warming:
"Meantime, the low level of interest in small cars highlights the challenge car makers face as they try to gage the return they'll get on their investments in smaller, more fuel-efficient engines as well as conventional hybrids, plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles - all vehicles they are being pushed to build by government policy demanding ever-higher annual fuel efficiency figures for their retail fleets."
Gas Prices Must Soar If Public Policy, People's Wants Are To Mesh in Auto Market (Green Car Advisor)
The Arctic was once a tropical paradise. Well drillers find fossils and fossilized palm trees on a regular basis. There were also Mastodons and Saber tooth tigers. Taking 15 or even 150 year snippets and trying to build a case against man is ridiculous. It serves no purpose except for the corrupt politicians around the World. Well they got caught with their hands in the Cookie jar. I would like to see some fraud charges and convictions.
All of this matters because the IPCC has been advertised as the last and definitive word on climate science. Its reports are the basis on which Al Gore, President Obama and others have claimed that climate ruin is inevitable unless the world reorganizes its economies with huge new taxes on carbon. Now we are discovering the U.N. reports are sloppy political documents intended to drive the climate lobby's regulatory agenda.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703630404575053781465774008.html?m- - od=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion
AGW = 10% science and 90% politics.
PS
Lake Erie Frozen over; First Time in 14 Years
The Kennedys can go ice skating on lake Erie.
The following is what the map specifically shows and what the Rangers said:
Glacier Bay was first discovered by explorers in 1789. At that time it was just the head of the glacier and not yet a bay. As the glacier started to receed the bay was left as a result of the glacier movin g back on itself. (They do not know how long the glacier was before it's discovery.) Between 1789 and 1912 the glacier receeded about 26 miles.
Now keep in mind that in that 128 year period there was no automobiles, no mass manufacturing or anything else that was a man made pollutant that would have caused the glacier to loose 26 miles of ice.
What clinches the Government being caught in it's own printed ("public documented map") lie is the fact that the map also shows that between 1912 and 1966 the Glacier has grown 5 miles. This is with the introduction of trains, planes and automobiles running on OIL PRODUCTS and the manufacturing evolution.
It appears that "pollution" must not be the problem they want us to believe.
The final word on this is the statement made by the Park Rangers that the Glacier is not receeding but is growing today at a rate of " 7 feet a DAY ".
The environmentalist show videos of the ice falling off the glacier face into the water and try to make us believe the glacier is receeding. The Rangers told us that when a glacier is loosing ice into the water ( called calving ) that it is actually growning. When a glacier is dying the ice moves back away from the water.
All the scientist I see on the Science Channel and National Geographic say that the earth has been warming up from it's 6th Ice Age for the last 10,000 years and I truly believe we can't stop it.
Now what does everyone think about "Global Warming"?
London banned coal fires (briefly) in 1306 because of the air pollution. Peasoupers. Nothing to do with the 16 glaciers of Glacier Bay, but pollution isn't a 21st century invention.
But most of the glaciers in Glacier Bay have been thinning and receding for several decades. And a flow rate is different from receding.
NPS Glacier Bay 2009 Fact Sheet (pdf file)
Looks like the whole green movement is collapsing.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Texas suit one of several to challenge EPA
DALLAS, Feb 16 (Reuters) - Texas and several national industry groups on Tuesday filed separate petitions in federal court challenging the government's authority to regulate U.S. greenhouse gas emissions.
Texas, which leads U.S. states in carbon dioxide emissions due to its heavy concentration of oil refining and other industries, will see a major impact if U.S. mandatory emissions reductions take effect.
In December, the Environmental Protection Agency ruled that greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide endanger human health, opening the door for the agency to issue mandatory regulations to reduce them.
Texas said it had filed a petition for review challenging the EPA's "endangerment finding" with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. Texas has also asked the EPA to reconsider its ruling.
"The EPA's misguided plan paints a big target on the backs of Texas agriculture and energy producers and the hundreds of thousands of Texans they employ," Texas Gov. Rick Perry said.
The National Association of Manufacturers, the American Petroleum Institute, and the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association also said on Tuesday they filed a petition challenging the EPA in federal appeals court.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and U.S. iron and steel makers have also signaled they would file lawsuits.
Not all the AGW Cult members have gotten the word yet:
Environmental groups said Texas should focus on building cleaner energy sources instead of filing lawsuits.
"Governor Perry should win an Olympic medal for taking the environment downhill," said Luke Metzger at Environment Texas. "Global warming is the greatest environmental threat facing Texas and the planet and Governor Perry's obstructionism puts the state at great risk."
Conservative Republicans like Perry have been sounding the alarm of job losses in the debate over regulating greenhouse gas emissions -- a hot-button issue at a time of high joblessness and economic uncertainty.
The EPA is threatening to regulate carbon emissions if Congress does not. In June, the House of Representatives narrowly passed a cap and trade bill that would allow industry to buy and trade pollution permits, but the legislation has stalled in the Senate.
President Barack Obama would rather have Congress pass a bill that could provide more protections for industry while also controlling pollution. But he is using the threat of EPA regulation to encourage lawmakers.
Some prominent Senate Democrats have predicted that comprehensive climate control legislation, including a cap-and-trade mechanism, will not pass this year.
Is Obama and the Dems not happy with only losing 8.4 million jobs during their watch? The Democrats worried about re-election are backing off the stupid Cap n Trade business.
We should ALL be on their side !!! (sarcasm)
Well yeah, but you were a carpetbagger. :P
I never made it over to Glacier Bay either; too many cruise ships for my taste anyway. Now they've built a lodge over at Aialik and messed that up.
I'm not sure I understand the fuss about the hockey stick data; didn't another guy shoot that theory down a few years back?
You yourself hate the NIMBYs. So Perry is saying we want a balance between sterile air and a good economy. Cap n Trade would likely bankrupt TX with its uncontrolled emissions standards. I drove across TX on a vacation in 2006 and last year. I did not notice as much pollution as in the LA Basin where uncontrolled population is permitted.
I was visiting with a neighbor last week. He is involved in a lawsuit to block more homes from being built in our area. Seems the county wants to give a big contractor a variance on lot size. We do not have sewer and the county wants to allow septic systems on 1/2 acre lots. Not only that but the road that does not go through is already over built according to the law. It all comes back to greedy politicians wanting more tax dollars.
Nothing is pollution free as you would like. Even your new solar panels built in China caused considerable pollution in that country.
I used to be really big on solar energy, putting panels on my house as well as a local school when I was on the school board. But that may all be for naught. There’s a new boogeyman in the world of global warming: Nitrogen Trifluoride
On Lubos Motls The Reference Frame he has as pointed out that a greenhouse gas emitted during the production of solar panels and HDTVs, nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) that is used for cleaning the electronics, is about 17,000 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.
The concentration of NF3 in the atmosphere was artificially increased by a factor of 20 during the last two decades. The measurements of the concentration surpassed the previous estimates by a factor of five.
According to the Scripps Institute; “ the present 5,400 tons in the atmosphere is on the rise at 11 percent per year” - that will stay there for 700+ years – creates the equivalent warming of all Finland’s CO2 emissions.
According to Lubos, given the fact that the solar panels produce about the same percentage of the global energy as Finland, it is reasonable to guess that the state-of-the-art solar panels that would replace fossil fuels would cause a comparable amount of warming per Joule as fossil fuels.
So let’s just say – everything causes global warming, and leave it at that.
solar panels no panacea
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/drought/2010-02-16-drought-us-reversal_N.htm
But a recent story in the local AZ Republic says that since 1996, we are cumulatively 20 inches behind in average rainfall totals.
We'd have to get more than 20 inches above average FOR ONE YEAR to break even since 1996.
And kernick, more rain does not IN ITSELF ALONE indicate that "warming has ended."
Warmer air can carry more moisture than cold air, not less.
Not so fast, Gary my Main Man:
In a finding that could help ease concerns about the potential environmental impact of manufacturing solar cells, scientists report that the manufacture of solar cells produces far fewer air pollutants than conventional fossil fuel technologies. Their report is the first comprehensive study on the pollutants produced during the manufacture of solar cells.
Also, my panels come from Evergreen Solar Inc, who has the lowest carbon footprint of any solar panel manufacturer.
Ahem.......
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
So now that there is no drought, now it's we can expect more rain?!
So if GW were a multiple choice test, we would choose answer "All of the Above" when asked GW causes: hotter temperatures, colder temperatures, droughts, more rain, more snow, more confusion, and more corruption.
No matter what happens with the weather and the climate, scientists claim that's due to GW and CO2, and you'd tell us that we should believe that? It sounds similar to how most fortune-tellers make a living; but at least they're only hurting those who willingly walk in the door.
"Abnormal Warming"
(regardless of cause)
is contributing to a lot of
Global Weather Weirdness
That's not hard to understand.
The cause of the abnormal warming? Much harder to define, and why there is still an ongoing discussion.
You are not alone feeling smug about your solar panels. There are many feeling that way about hybrids. Which we are just now finding out are more polluting than even thought. If given enough time the ECO NUTS will destroy the planet. Not to mention the economy of the World.
I am glad you bought Evergreen Solar panels. It will help our balance of trade with China. I also own a few shares of their stock. I bought years ago and forgot about. The stock has not done much since I bought it.
Facing the difficult economic reality of competing on the world stage, Massachusetts based Evergreen Solar, Inc is turning to China. Lauded as a leader among green energy businesses in the state, the company is taking advantage of the subsidies, cheap labor and production costs offered in Asia. It's a simple matter of dollars and sense.
"You have low labor costs and low overhead costs in China but, you also get enormous help from the government and so it's difficult to compete in the United States if you have to contend with higher labor costs and lower government assistance," said Rick Feldt, the CEO of Evergreen Solar.
That solar panels are evil, and should be banned because of the tiny amount of DDT that is used to clean them in the manufacture process?
I happen to believe that those that use such devices as well as driving hybrids or recycling certain items are not realistically assessing their own impact on the earth. They somehow justify what they do believing they are pollution neutral.
Even if we lived in caves and ate nothing but berries we would be polluting when we defecate or build a fire to keep warm. There is no such thing as pollution free living or carbon neutral. It is all part of the scam we have been led to believe over the last 40 years.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Yup, we expire CO2, one of the so-called greenhouse gases.
And, when chunks of ice fall off of glaciers, they are really growing. All of this sounds all right and all of it sounds believable.
We've come full circle. And most of us in here aren't lying awake at night trying to figure out how we can screw our fellow man out of tax dollars supporting a GW plan and/or a GW problem to "fix." Holes in the ozone are getting bigger and wider...or are they staying the same size?
And do scientists still worry about the "ozone" layer like they did in the 80's and 90's? And how much sun is busting through there and penetrating our skin and possibly causing skin cancer. Might there be a potential link here to blaming GW on men? Using too many propellants from cartridges that go up and destroy the ozone layer is from man. That's why we are using more and more non-CFC(chlorofluorocarbon) drugs now, right?
Is this more fodder for Al Gore to glob on to, here? Dangerous linking material to controlling the masses to do what certain men want them to do, for the "overall betterment of mankind?"
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It is a fear based sales presentation by collectivists to achieve "Social Justice", or a redistribution of wealth. Theft plain and simple. These people have no respect for property rights.
An elaborate presentation to control your life, liberty and property. A return to the primitive, a negation of the mind and a return to the cave.
Fear is the most powerful way to influence human behavior and demogouges are using it all the time.
So what will be the next presentation from the bed bugs? What are they going to save us from next?
The most dangerous people in the world are the world improvers.
That's a bunch of hooey phalooey.
But they have a different "end game" than coal power and other dirty fossil fuel energy systems - because they have a "pollution reversing" factor.
And after they are produced, they set about allowing for other means of dirty pollution to NOT be used.
The "net pollution factor" is NEGATIVE for both solar panels and hybrid cars.
In the meantime, the owners have the satisfaction of knowing that they are doing what any little one person can do to help.
Solar panels do generate pollution during manufacture. But it's VERY VERY controlled, at least in the USA. OSHA and the EPA and local and county governments have strict policies on pollution control. I know how strict because my cubicle is right beside the Environmental and Safety manager for my company. I know how strictly they enforce the rules, because I hear a lot of the conversations which take place regarding our environmental permits.
Without those agencies controlling things where they can, I can assure you that this would be a MUCH MORE POLLUTED country.
Every time I go to California beach, beaches being one my all-time favorite places to be, I wonder how much more beautiful the vistas would be if you could see through the smog a few more miles.
That fact ALONE is enough to make me bend over backward to be as clean-living a person as I can be.
What percentage of PV cells do you think are made in the USA? My guess would be less than 10%. They don't build CFLs and PVs in China just for the cheap labor. It is environmental regulations here that block their manufacture. So is it environmentally sound to use a product in the USA that cannot be built in the USA under our regulations? I find it hypocritical to do so. My research is more toward the mandated CFL bulbs that cannot be made here. That comes from the people at Lights of America.
More American jobs lost in the process of becoming Carbon neutral.
It's "environmentally POSITIVE" to choose any product from ANY country as long as that product, during it's LIFETIME, saves more pollution that it created during it's manufacture.
Net positive is the goal, and once that goal is achieved, WHO SHOULD CARE about the manufacturing process?
By the way - my net usage since firing up the solar panels is -34 kwh as of today. Which has offset 518 lbs of CO2 so far. Not a ton yet, but heading there....
Thank GOD for those regs too. I can't imagine how dirty our air and water would be without the EPA.
It's just because the "EPA equivalent" in China has not caught up yet to ours.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
It most assuredly IS. But the bottom line is what's important, not what happens during the calculations.
houdini1 says, "In the meantime you are killing off all the oxygen producing plants in your area by depriving them of CO2."
That, my friend, is a GOOD one. First time you hear about a worldwide CO2 shortage, be sure and post it here for my information, unkay?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Permafrost Line in Quebec Retreats 80 Miles in 50 Years, Study Says
The southern limit of permafrost around the James Bay region in Quebec has moved 80 miles to the north since 1957, according to a new study. Scientists at the Université Laval tracked the northerly retreat of the tundra by examining distinctive, oval-shaped land elevations known as palsas, which form over permafrost. By comparing aerial photos taken in the James Bay region between the 51st and 53rd parallels in 1957 with findings from helicopter surveys in 2004 and 2005, the scientists documented the swift poleward movement of the permafrost line. The study, published in the journal Permafrost and Periglacial Processes, also found that permafrost was in an advanced state of deterioration as far north as the 55th parallel. “If this trend keeps up, what is left of the palsas in the James Bay bogs will disappear altogether in the near future, and it is likely that the permafrost will suffer the same fate,” said one researcher. James Bay, bordered by Quebec and Ontario, forms the southernmost portion of Hudson Bay. As the Arctic has warmed in many areas by 3 to 4 degrees F in recent decades, permafrost has been melting throughout the region, and the tundra is beginning to disappear, as well.